Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group

Subject: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: r.padgett
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 03:52 PM

This is to announce that Steve Gardham, Ray Padgett and Mike Parsey have been awarded a lottery grant to start the work of collating recording and indexing traditional Yorkshire song, music, and similar material as deemed worthy of inclusion in the Web site database.

The effective date of commencement is April 1st (no not an April fool) and we have just commenced contacting people with a genuine interest in preserving the traditional songs and music of Yorkshire

Yorkshire is a very large area and the task will therefore be not inconsiderable.

I do hope that the news is well received and that all positive assistance is brought to bear in achieving our purpose

The idea is not unlike the FARNE project wich is in existence now for the North East of England

The day to day work will fall largely to Steve Gardham who is based in Hull.

The project is supported by Norma Waterson

More news as and when it is firmed up!

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 05:27 PM

Brilliant news Ray.

I am sure this very worthwhile project will be a great boost to the recording and archiving of Yorkshire material.

Will it be like that FARNE website and have material that is already freely available without copywrite restrictions, for people to access?

Come on folks there must be some unknonw manuscripts somewhere.

Best regards,

Dave

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: Ned Ludd
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 07:09 PM

Good one Padgett, can't think of a better team for the job! Best of luck.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: nutty
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 07:22 PM

good one Ray ..... but ..... I'm very interested in the criteria you will be using to define a "Yorkshire Song" and also how you will deem a song or tune "worthy" of inclusion.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: GUEST,padgett (at work)
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 04:21 AM

Me too Hazel! some carefully chosen words as usual!

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 05:29 AM

Nice one Raymond, I'm sure you will strive hard and diligently to carry out this project, a mammoth task indeed. Like Hazel I would like to know what criteria you intend to use to define what is and is not included, if I can be of any help I would like to play a part. Finally, and this is a question I've never had a satisfactory answer to in nearly 40 years of visiting folk clubs, festivals etc, how is traditional defined.

Good Luck

Nick

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: GUEST,padgett (at work)
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 06:33 AM

Thanks Nick we are hopeful of doing some recording work at Holmfirth of singers deemed to be 'traditional' by the 'establishment' ~ I am not going to even attempt to define 'traditional' I aint that daft; but Steve Gardham will probably be the arbiter as to what is or is not included in the database!

I think we need to talk in terms of grey areas and wavy lines and in clude rather than exclude material and notable examples of the genre.
(Ive put the dictionary away now!)

I will try to have my 2 pennorth tho!

Nor am I going to try to define 'establishment'

Some exciting times and very interesting for the traddies ~ renewed interest in the UK at the moment

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: r.padgett
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 12:38 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: Les from Hull
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 02:29 PM

Excellent news Ray. If you can think of anything I can do to help, please get in touch.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: nutty
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 02:37 PM

The grey areas are the ones that cause the problems given the greater access to traditional sources that we have today (particularly on line).

Can a song be claimed by an area just because the singer comes from that area?? ( as in the case of many of the Holme Valley Beagle songs or some of those sung by the Watersons)

Can ownership of a song be claimed by reason of regional boundaries?? (even though those boundaries may have moved a number of times over the last century or so).

Through resources available today it is possible to trace the source of a song or ballad .... to find the original sheet music or broadside, to find the publisher and name the composer and performer. I would hope that the intended collection would include all such evidence which is often lacking in other collections (Songs of the Ridings, the Mary and Nigel Hudleston version, for example)

Also how "traditional" will this collection be ....will it include songwriters such as Graeme Miles, Keith Marsden, John Conolly to name but a few.

I don't envy those undertaking such a task but will be glad to be of assistance if required.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: r.padgett
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 05:57 PM

Steve Gardham is the man if you are talking origins Hazel, apart from yourself of course!

I would hope that a 'brush approach' is adopted personally as indicated earlier.

I would agree with a great deal of what you say, Hazel

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 07:34 PM

Hello Ray, I daresay you already know of Mick Haywood's Yorkshire collecting work? Worth checking out. I'm told he has loads of stuff gathered in the 1960's and 70's on reel to reel. Your project sounds great. Good Luck with it.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 08:08 PM

The usual approach would be "traditional songs found in Yorkshire"; origins are quite another matter, and nobody who knew what they were talking about has seriously suggested for the best part of a century that any but a very few songs actually "belong" uniquely, or even pre-eminently, to any particular area.

Steve Gardham knows his onions, and if he's to be the arbiter I'd expect the project to be in safe hands in that respect. The word was "traditional", so I wouldn't expect contemporary songwriters based in Yorkshire (whether they are Keith Marsden or Jarvis Cocker) to be included in the first instance.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: GUEST,padgett (at work)
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 05:57 AM

Hello Roy!Hope you are keeping well, I still remember Wadebridge in the company of Michael O'Leary Johns a year or two ago (good to see Michael coming through the heart op)

I know Mick Haywood quite well and did in fact record him on DAT at the Wine and Spirits Vaults a few years ago and he has a copy of the recording

Mick I think is working on his own book etc and do hope that we can bring him on board ~ I personally have the greatest respect for his 'Batley Irish' and of course he was well associated with Tommy Daniels and Bill Price through his Dewsbury connection

I don't know of Micks reel to reel collection but great if it can be made available

Brian Senior has lots of material recorded at the Grove and I have spoken to him and Sam/Edna and also Jim Potter with a view to accessing anything which falls into the 'Yorkshire' category

Thanks to everyone for their support

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: nutty
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 09:01 AM

In my quest for origins I became familiar with FW MOORMAN's SONGS OF THE RIDINGS and other original songs/poems from members of the Yorkshire Dialect Society.
I have yet to find a folksong book/recording that credits Moorman for writing A Dalesman's Litany although such information is now freely available.

Even here Folk at the Grove the song is not correctly credited although the Moorman 'Songs of the Ridings' is available on the internet and also through publications from the Yorkshire Dialect Society ... particularly The White Rose Garland which contains a vast amount of information on 'Yorkshire songs'

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: nutty
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 09:11 AM

I've just re-read the last thread and I sound really ratty.... sorry about that ....didn't mean to.
I've just got back from visiting my Mum. She always has that affect on me.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 09:56 AM

Hazel no you dont, you are ok ~valid observation!
Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: r.padgett
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 12:42 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: bradfordian
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:43 PM

how you fixed for an update, Ray?

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: concertina ceol
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 01:42 PM

Just one question - why the Yorkshire Garland group?

There is a womens dance side of that name that was started in the early/mid seventies and as far as I know still going in the Sheffield area.

I know you have been going 18 months and I support what you are trying to do very much - but why that name?

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 03:33 PM

cc - possibly because the Watersons' record, A Yorkshire Garland, was released on Topic Records in 1966.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 03:36 PM

There is a womens dance side of that name that was started in the early/mid seventies and as far as I know still going in the Sheffield area

There is a womens' dance group called Yorkshire Chandelier - who do garland dancing - is that who you are thinking of?

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 03:38 PM

And not to be confused with Yorkshire Relish!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: GUEST,Northerner
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 07:19 AM

Excellent Ray!!   I hope it goes well.

Are you going to the Saltburn Folk Festival this year again? I will be down south at a storytelling workshop immediately before it i think so will probably only get there for part of the Sunday. So no singing competition for me this year. Am going to be going to the whole of Whitby Folk Week though. Maybe see you there?

Cheers!!!

Diane

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 07:50 AM

Next meeting is at Ray Black's in Harrogate on Sunday 24th

Yorkshire Garland Launch is September 15th at NCEM in York with Watersons Family Yorkshire songs

Jim Eldon, Mick Haywood, John Greaves, Steve Gardham, John Cocking and Will Noble, Three Score and Ten see Stirrings and Tykes' News ads

Good progress on Web site via Mike Parsey songs sung on download and music notation scores keen to do ABC too as well as verses and provenance

Steve has ben working hard on song transcriptions and provenance I have been coordinating looking after the brass and me and Steve went recording Roger Hinchliffe last Sunday

I am of course still working altho I will be 60 in Semptember and can retire (£££ needed)

I will be at Saltburn as usual God willing Diane

Steve me and John are doing sung Workshops at Cleckheaton, and Saddleworth FFs, did Shepley FF workshop

We have also recorded Will Noble, and Mick Haywood and John Greaves

filling in the blanks

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 08:42 AM

I am of course still working altho I will be 60 in Semptember and can retire (£££ needed)

Never, can't be, you look so young....

Dave

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 09:51 AM

Ever the charmer Mr Eyre!

I do believe we might do some recording perhaps in the not too distant future

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: concertina ceol
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:21 AM

Folkiedave
There is a womens' dance group called Yorkshire Chandelier - who do garland dancing - is that who you are thinking of?

Me:

Yes :-)

he he he he

Well it successfully refreshed the subject even if I can't tell my chandelier from my garland!

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 11:31 AM

Indeed it did..........:-)>

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 12:49 PM

Did'nt there use to be a Ceilidh band from the Hull area called Yorkshire Garland back in the'90s with Norman Cross&Bill Sowerbyas members amongst others I believe they changed name for some reason to Jigsaw

Gerry

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 03:20 PM

"Well it successfully refreshed the subject even if I can't tell my chandelier from my garland! "

Just don't stick candles in your Garland ;O)

Dave

Subject: RE: Origins: The Yorkshire Garland group
From: r.padgett
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 05:44 PM

WE have some excellent work from Bill Sowerby for the Yorkshire Garland too!!
I only met him recently at Wath upon Dearne FF a nice bloke and a fiddler
Green Ginger clog from Hull comes to mind!

Ray