That Green Linnet Kerfuffle

Subject: That "Green Linnet" Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 04:15 PM

Incidentally; I ran a topic-search, and haven't seen activity on this subject in quite a long, long time.

Did the warring parties ever hash out a peaceble (or at least, civilly tight-lipped) solution to this dispute?

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: open mike
Date: 07 Feb 06 - 09:40 PM

this is about a record label and some artists who did not get
proceeds from thier recordings (or something?? please send details)

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: open mike
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 01:15 AM

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=60890#975628
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=60890#976624
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=63314#1027073

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 09:50 AM

"this is about a record label and some artists who did not get
proceeds from thier recordings"
--------------------------

Correct. There have been a few Mudcat threads about this in the past, some of them very lively; see archives under search term "Green Linnet". They echo sentiments that have reverberated across many other online folk-music communities.

But after tweaking a few leads, I can't really seem to find CURRENT chatter on it. The most activity seems to have taken place in 2003; after that it just sort of peters out.

Anyone know what the final outcome was?

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 07:20 AM

Hmph. Truly, no tangible activity that I've seen since the October 2003 protest.

Hopefully that's a good sign? Considering how geeked up people had gotten about it, I certainly hope an agreeable settlement was reached.

All I know is, two Octobers after that, some stranger (who MAY have had his heart in the right place, but the tact and grace of a water buffalo to go with it) sent me a sniffy email because my website recommends and links to Green Linnet, as a place where newcomers to the Celtic Music genre can have their pick of good artists.

Horrible me, eh? :P

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: MartinRyan
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 07:31 AM

Oh! And I thought this was going to be about the far more important question of how anyone thought linnets were green!

Regards

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 07:42 AM

Martin,

"Green Linnet" isn't a real bird, it was originally an Irish code-name for Napoleon. Kind of similar to the code-name "Moor-Hen" that the Scots gave Bonnie Prince Charlie during the Jacobite rebellion.

At one time there was a (wishful and probably ill-founded) belief among some revolutionary-minded Irish, that if Nappy conquered England his first act would be to liberate Ireland.

Folks who held this belief were quietly hoping he'd win the war, and made preparations for his coming. But it's probably best they never found out firsthand the actual consequences of a French victory.

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: MartinRyan
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 08:10 AM

Windsinger

Symbolic or not, it's not green! (And, no - it's nothing to do with the Irish flag of the time). The usual explanation is that the bird referred to was the greenfinch - with linnet as a local name. I'm not convinced.

Regards

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 09:12 AM

Moor-hens aren't "red and white and green and gray" either, but that's how the Jacobite ballad Bonnie Moorhen goes.   The colors referenced are those of the Stuart tartan, and have nothing to do with the literal plumage of the fowl in question.

(Since no one's addressing the actual question of this thread, I'll assume till I hear otherwise that the matter was quietly settled out of court. And that the guy who flamed my website was just being a schmucko.)

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 03:22 PM

Last night I asked Lunasa bassist Trevor Hutchinson how the GL problems had shaken out. He told me that nothing had been resolved, the matter is still "up in the air", and that Lunasa just had to walk away from it and carry on.

Lunasa are now on Compass records, which has just released their new CD "Se" (Six). It's great!!

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 04:48 PM

Thanks for speaking up, Michael. :) Have been having a dreadful time getting current updates on this.

So it never came to court, and the artists had to "suck it up and deal," eh? :/ That's a real shame. One more reason why my debut CD is coming out under a personal label... sigh.

Will keep an eye peeled for Lunasa's new CD.

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 07:38 PM

(GAH! Pt II. Forgot I wasn't logged in when I made the previous post. Oops.)

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 09:05 PM

You're welcome, Windsinger. I imagine the matter will come to court or arbitration eventually... wheels of justice slow etc.

I'd like to check out your website. Why not post (or PM to me) a link?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 06:20 AM

Better still, put the link in this thread - I'd like to see it too.

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 07:25 AM

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

There's a link to some sound samples. Bear in mind they're only demo-quality (which is a nice way of saying "buggy." :) ) Keeping costs down means home-recording, and I'm still trying to get the hang of engineering.

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Kaleea
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 03:01 PM

I was thinking about that just yesterday! In fact, I sent an enquiring not off to Joanie.

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 03:31 PM

Yeah...I don't know if Green Linnet ever released any sort of official statement for their side. Ever.

When I was told to boycott them, I kinda told the would-be activist--who had made their case kind of rudely anyway--to get stuffed. *NOT* because I don't support artists being fairly compensated for their material (hello, also a starving Celtic musician over here!) but because I don't make any decision like that without careful fact-checking. If for no other reason than that a boycot might hurt the very people whose cause is being championed.

I will say I WAS very disappointed at the prospect of a label who'd done so much to spearhead the cause for Celtic music in the states (They're one of the main sponsors for the Thistle and Shamrock, for crying out loud!) turning to the Dark Side. :P

Sigh...

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: michaelr
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 07:46 PM

What a very enjoyable site, Windsinger! I love your sense of humor. Extra points for the link to Principia Discordia.

Couldn't get the mp3 samples to work, which may be a problem on my end. But I definitely want to hear the CD when it's done! Keep me posted, please.

We have a lot of the same influences and fave albums. I've recorded some of the same songs with my band (The Cuckoo and Taim I Mo Shui, a translation of which I wrestled into singable form and used as the title track of our second album, "I Lie Awake") -- check it out at Greenhouse.

Great stuff!
Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 11 Feb 06 - 09:37 AM

Hmph! I wonder why the clips aren't loading. Are you trying to get them to play in streaming format? If so, they might be a lot more cooperative after an outright download. (Even though they're mostly 90 seconds or under, that's still about 1.5 megs.)

Glad you like enjoyed the site. :) I'll be checking yours out presently.

As for the dispute, now that things have gone the way they have, think I should take down that "Green Linnet" link after all?

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Feb 06 - 10:43 AM

Well, the label is still a valuable source for all those great recordings, but people can surely find it on their own. Having the link up could be seen as an endorsement.

The problem is that we've only ever heard one side of the argument. Green Linnet has not publicly commented, as far as I know. Makes it tough to form an opinion.

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 11 Feb 06 - 11:39 AM

OK, 'tis gone (the link).

Would that the dispute itself would vanish so quickly...

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:41 AM

Michael,

Taking a quick shufty at the "Greenhouse" website...I notice you're based out of the same region as Heather Alexander when she was in her "Phoenyx" days.

Rub elbows with her a lot? (Or ever?) I know she's solo now, and mostly tours the Ren-Faire circuit...

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 03:16 PM

I've heard the name, I think, but don't know her or about her. Tell me more!

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 03:58 PM

Heather is primarily a fiddler, both accoustic and electric. She also has what I can only describe as the most bloodthirsty alto I've ever heard:

a href="http://www.heatherlands.com">http://www.heatherlands.com

She's more or less gone solo now. But she and her old band (Phoenyx) used to do a really hard-driving and energetic style of Celtic fusion/rock, and were based in the Bay area.

Nowadays, you are most likely to see her on either the Ren-Faire circuit, or the SciFi/Fantasy-con circuit (she's been known to play with the likes of filkers such as Leslie Fish and Joe Bethancourt).

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: artbrooks
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:24 PM

The person who committed ?

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: artbrooks
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:34 PM

Sorry...meant to say "The person who committed Cambreath?"

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:59 PM

"The person who committed Cambreath?"

As in March of Cambreadth? That's her all right. She's remade that one several times, but the original she recorded with Phoenyx still kicks the most ass.

We met at a concert once. She jokes that March has so firmly ensconced itself in the oral tradition of reenactors and filkers, some fans actually insist the fictitious battle and its equally fictitious name are historically real.

Her most common response is "Oh yeah. Cambreadth...that's about 60 miles west of Wales (i.e., in the middle of the Irish Sea), right?"

Slán,

~F

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Kaleea
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:46 PM

I couldn't get on the 'Cat before, but I did hear back from Joanie, who said that it has never been resolved in or out of court. As for purchasing recordings, I try to get them from the artists in person at performances whenever possible, & if not, through the internet I am usually able to get them directly from the artist on their sites.

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:55 PM

Thanks Kaleea. Sigh...yeah, "artist direct" is what I've been hearing. Sounds good to me.

But what about artists like, say, "Silly Wizard," -- big front-runners for Green Linnet who disbanded years ago? Do Andy and the Bros. Cunningham now own joint rights to their stuff, and if so is it possible to get back-copies from them directly?

Did I hear correctly that "Relativity" (which was partially staffed by the Cunninghams) was one of the artists stiffed on royalties? Particularly, by the constant re-releasing of their material on "yet another" Celtic collection CD?

What a tangled web we weave, when first we insist on being paid for our own damned songs.

:::grumble:::

Slán,

~F

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 07:31 AM

...and speaking of injustice, incidentally, how's that blathershite about the "none in a bar" ruling going in the U. K.?

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 10:17 AM

I'll be seeing a "Silly Wizard" at the weekend - I'll ask him, but I'm 99% sure they don't have any of their Green Linnet recordings. I'm equally sure they haven't seen any money for the many tracks of theirs released on the Green Linnet compilations which have been turning up in various shops for around £7.00 over the past few years. Will get back to you on Monday.

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 10:43 AM

UGH; that's horrible, GUEST.

Green Linnet must have made more money off of Andy and the Cunninghams than just about any of their other artists. Stiffing them would surely be suicidal...killing the goose for its golden eggs, as it were.

But then, I haven't heard of any ex-Wizards speaking out on this issue either. So maybe they weren't one of the "casualties". Or if so, maybe they have simply taken it in stride.

Imagine writing and recording a screaming hit like "Queen of Argyll," only to have the record company refuse to even turn over the master recording...that sort of behavior was one of the other major complaints of the "Green Linnet Five."

ARGH.

Anxious to hear what your source has to say (and which one of them it is. ;) )

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 03:50 PM

That's the coolest thing about this forum; you might be only one Mudcat-contact removed from your favorite artist!

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:17 AM

GUEST 10:17, any news from your source?

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: GUEST,TJ
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:05 PM

There was word going around at last week's North American Folk Alliance conference that Green Linnet's catalog is about to be purchased by Compass Records, at which point GL will cease to do business. No word about back payments to the artists who are owed money. I don't know if that's true or not, but I want to do my part and monger a good rumor.   :-)

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: open mike
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:18 AM

speaking of Cunninghams, i believe Johnny passed away not so long ago,
do i have the correct person?

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:49 AM

And a bunch of musicians - Danny Doyle, Brian Gaffney, Fergus Kennedy, Stevie Morris, Myron Bretholtz, Zan McLeod and myself performed at a benefit for Andy M. who is in dire straits, being laid up from back surgery and unable to work for about 6 months.
A lot of good thoughts and vibes went out to Andy M.
If only he could get a few royalty payment from GL to tide him over a rough spot like this.

Seamus

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 07:01 AM

Wow, I had no idea about Andy.

Nor did some other folk, whom I think would be very upset on his behalf. I'll spread the word.

(Nor about John, either, that's truly a shame.)

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:01 AM

(OK, I just "pinged" Kate Akers and McShane Glover off of Andy's website/s. Hopefully they can give additional info, input and/or advice so the rest of us can help...)

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: open mike
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:27 AM

and thanks for that wonderful word :"Kerfuffle"

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:46 AM

OK.   Andy's U.S. booking agent responded pretty quickly. Between that note and perusing some fans' chatter, here's what I found:

-The back surgery was scheduled for December, to relieve nerve pressure from a slipped disk. Sounds like the procedure went well; as of New Year's Eve he was on the mend, and beginning physical therapy the first week of January.

-Andy was NOT one of the Green Linnet artists that sued. (Whether that means he simply wasn't affected, or was affected but took the situation in stride, was not specified. I didn't press further.)

-There have been a few channels by which fans and colleagues have been making contributions, the DC benefit concert being one. Wish I'd known about that one, I might have pulled some strings to make an appearance.

I am still awaiting a response from my note to Chivalry Music. If I get further details I'll post them.

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 07:49 PM

Good news:

Update On Andy's Condition

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 11:32 AM

Hi, Fionn,
                   "Silly Wizard" actually only recorded 3 albums for "Green Linnet" as opposed to 5 which were released in the USA under licence to "Shanachie". The Green Linnet albums were the 2 live recordings made in Boston, and their last album "A Glint Of Silver". "Silly Wizard" are no longer listed on Green Linnet's website, so I suppose these recordings have all been sold. I don't believe any of the former members of the band would have any to sell. You can get them, however, from several outlets over the internet, and they also are downloadable as MP3s from some of the internet sites which provide that service. All of "Silly Wizard's" recordings regularly turn up on e-bay, although the prices can be quite variable.
I got the following information from my brother, Martin Hadden, on Sunday.
There are moves afoot to re-issue the 2 live albums on 1 CD, and this might happen quite soon. Included in the package will be an 8-page booklet history of the band by an Edinburgh journalist who supported them in their early days.
"Silly Wizard" also recorded a live concert video tape, and they are looking into the possibility of releasing this themselves as a DVD.
Andy M. is recovering from his operation, but is unlikely to be able to do any gigs for a few months, hopefully not as much as 6.
As far as "The Queen Of Argyll" is concerned, Andy recorded that when "Silly Wizard" were with Shanachie, and he does have it under copyright, so that's not anything to do with Green Linnet as far as I can tell. It did appear on one of the 2 live albums released by Green Linnet.

Sorry that this has gone off at a bit of a tangent from the original thread, but a question was asked which I was in a position to answer.

Regards,    Kenny Hadden [ Aberdeen, Scotland ]

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Effsee
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 12:00 PM

Hi Kenny, thanks for that. Look forward to seeing the new CD!
Still flutin' aboot ma loon?

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Windsinger
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 12:16 PM

Hi Kenny,

Bear in mind that Andy did continue recording albums with Green Linnet for nearly a decade after Silly Wizard broke up. Judging by the dates on his discography at his website, there are an additional four albums on that label.

So, sound enough reason for concern that this dispute might affect him. But if Andy feels there is no axe to grind with his old company, fair enough.

Either way it's good to hear he's on the mend--I got really nervous when I heard they accidentally punctured a lung during the surgery. (Bad enough when that happens to anyone, let alone a professional singer!)


Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: GUEST,Kenny
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 01:30 PM

Effsee ?? - Thurso ??

Fionn - I haven't seen Andy for a couple of years, so can't speculate on what his relationship is with Green Linnet. But I'm thinking it's a few years since he played here in Aberdeen , and it's about time he was back, as soon as he's fit.

Regards, kenny

Subject: RE: That Green Linnet Kerfuffle
From: Effsee
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 01:44 PM

You got it Kenny.