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Subject: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: SteveF (inactive) Date: 27 Jan 99 - 05:06 PM In a different thread (Banned Songs), Tom mentioned the well-known (I think) charge that "Puff the Magic Dragon" was really an "in" song celebrating drug use. He added the follow-up to the story was that the charges were established to be a government plot to discredit Peter, Paul, and Mary. I've always assumed that that the song was indeed a tongue-in-cheek pro-pot sing, even though PP&M publicly denied it. Most entertainers cannot resist a few inside jokes of their own. Does anyone have further information on this matter? Truth? Speculation? --SteveF |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Bert Date: 27 Jan 99 - 05:22 PM It sounds to me like a song about a little boy and a dragon. Bert. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Jan 99 - 05:38 PM Dunno, Steve - Peter Yarrow wrote it (along with somebody else). He says it's a kids' song, and didn't have anything to do with marijuana. That's been what Peter, Paul & Mary have said all along about the song - although they have occasionally made fun of those who have made or believed the marijuana allegations. Noel Paul Stookey staged a court trial of Puff in one of his monologues. The matter has come up time and time again over the years, and Yarrow has never said anything that would be considered an admission that it's a marijuana song. What his private thoughts were when writing the song are anybody's guess. If you look at the whole song, it seems to be a song about the loss of the innocence of youth. Jackie Paper grows up and doesn't play with toys any more. If it were a song about marijuana, I think there would be more references to, more than just what some people pull out of the chorus. Click here for a previous discussion. Click here for a more detailed discussion of this issue, plus a particularly insipid MIDI of the song. Or, Click here. I've also found others on the Web who firmly believe it's a song that was meant to persuade kids to smoke marijuana - but their documentation is pretty weak. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Zorro Date: 27 Jan 99 - 06:22 PM I think if I had written a song alluding to pot use I'd deny it too. I continue to think the song refers to that and I'm sure PPM will continue to deny that it does. There are so many songs that have hidden or veiled meanings. I can't help but think that PY and whoever helped him write the song must have had a good laugh. They could probably predict the controversy. Z |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Barbara Date: 27 Jan 99 - 07:54 PM Well, if it's a song about pot (puff the magic; drag on) it would also be about outgrowing pot, hmmm? And while I always thought Puff was about a little boy and a dragon, I always thought Peter Yarrow's Talking Candy Bar Blues was about getting busted with an underage girl or two, so... Blessings, Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Jan 99 - 08:11 PM You could be right Zorro. It was a time when using pot was, to say the least, popular and the drug culture changes in the '60's would certainly have quite easily produced a song like "Puff." Then again, the '60's were a time of untoward turmoil in this country where young people went to the drive-in on Saturday and to Viet Nam on Sunday. Unlike many past wars, Viet Nam was not so clearly defined. Maybe some were rich kids with too much time and money; maybe some were confronted with the realization that what they'd been taught in school about the government didn't match with the six o'clock news. Some saw civil rights as an issue that would work out over time; some saw Bull Connor and Lester Maddox and Ross Barnett and they still loved what their country stood for...they also hated what it had become. Maybe it was television that provided the graphic images. Perhaps it was the number of issues that seemed to reach critical mass at one point in time. It could have been a generation of baby boomers with coonskin caps who believed Fess Parker, portraying Davy Crockett, when he said, "A man always has to do what he thinks is right." Maybe a lot of things.......... But to "come of age" in the '60's was like falling off a cliff, not walking along a path. Loss of innocence came like a hatchet between the eyes and some insightful souls may have seen that better than others at the time...Tom Paxton perhaps...or Phil Ochs...Patrick Sky...and maybe too, Peter Yarrow. No...Probably not. Maybe I need to find a joint, fire up, and think about it. catspaw |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Jan 99 - 08:19 PM Trouble is, Barbara, while it was Peter Yarrow who got busted, it was family man Noel Paul Stookey who wrote and performed "Talking Candy Bar Blues." Stookey is probably the straightest of the three - heck, his wife was just ordained a minister. While "Talking Candy Bar" is about getting busted with underage kids, I think it's strictly a humor piece. The song was recorded (by Stookey) in 1965, and Yarrow was arrested about 5 years later. I've seen things in print that said that it was Stookey who was arrested, but that's not true. I found fairly good documentation in the NY times archives that showed that it was Yarrow who got arrested, not Stookey. I suppose there will always be people who read things into songs, but what the heck would be wrong with writing these songs just for the fun of it? If their purpose were to have hidden meanings, I think they would have been a little more clever about it. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Don Meixner Date: 27 Jan 99 - 10:05 PM I saw Peter Paul and Mary in concert in Syracuse in 1968. Peter said" We are going to sing a children's song about growing up, growing older and dragons, When I write a song about pot, I'll sing it for you." I never gave the true meaning of the song another thought. Don |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: KingBrilliant Date: 28 Jan 99 - 04:51 AM I don't know about the pot thing - but I remember crying my eyes out about the poor lonely dragon. Pathetic huh? Kris |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Cuilionn Date: 28 Jan 99 - 09:17 AM Aw, Jeeeeeze... I remember cryin' aboot th' dragon as weel...tho' I usually dinnae admit it, my formative years tuik place in th' seventies, an' I'm a wee bit twisted accordingly. I can reca' th' day when a girl in my kirk youth group "broke th' news" tae me aboot th' "real" meaning o' "Puff th' Magic Dragon." I was scandalized, but waurse was tae come. Th' NEXT week she informed me that Sesame Street's Ernie an' Bert were mair than jist ruim-mates... --Cuilionn |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST Date: 18 Dec 04 - 05:05 PM I am so sick of people saying the song is about drugs! The song was written as a childrens song by a man who loves children. It's about a boy and a drangon. End of story. ~Olivia |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: number 6 Date: 18 Dec 04 - 05:16 PM Agree with Guest on this one! Leave it at that. End of story. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST Date: 19 Dec 04 - 01:49 AM |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST,beetle cat in bklyn Date: 19 Dec 04 - 01:53 AM oops..that was me. here is an interesting discussion; snopes |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Peace Date: 19 Dec 04 - 01:54 AM But if you play the song backwards . . . . |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: kendall Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:55 AM Oh come on people! Puff?? paper, in control of a dragon? How naive can you be? Of course it's about weed. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST Date: 19 Dec 04 - 10:51 AM Kendall, Well, now that you mention it.... But at the time it never occured to me that the song was NOT just a kid's song. Russ (still naive after all these years) |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Rapparee Date: 19 Dec 04 - 11:01 AM Gee, I heard Peter Yarrow (at a concert in Cleveland in the late '70s) say that he woke up one morning and "Time" had an article by a psychiatrist that stated that the song was about smoking dope -- which surprised him, because he thought he'd written a song about a loss of childhood.... |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST,Joe_F Date: 19 Dec 04 - 12:35 PM I've said it before, and I'll say it again: As social subversion goes, promoting marijuana use is a bagatelle in comparison with the line A dragon lives forever, but not so little boys which equates growing up with death (poetically in the short run and, of course, literally in the long run). It always makes me catch my breath. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST,observer Date: 19 Dec 04 - 12:43 PM The right wing know-it-alls that see this as a drug song are the same stupid idiots that elected Bush. IT IS A CHILDREN'S SONG! Give it up. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: kendall Date: 19 Dec 04 - 01:31 PM Sure, Jackie PAPER very common name, PUFF what else would you call a dragon? For once, I agree with the right wingers. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Tannywheeler Date: 19 Dec 04 - 01:35 PM In the mid-1960s here in Austin (TX) there was a group called "The A Capella Urban Industrial Choir", two guys that did satirical, sarcastic material, tongue-in-cheek parodies. They did "Puff, The Magic Soriety Chick". This being a Univ. town, it was pretty popular for a time. Just smart-alecky about pretentious, dumb, social butterflies; no hidden dope messages. Tw |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Joybell Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:28 PM True-Love was not allowed to sing it, on public radio, in Laos in the 60s. It was alongside lots of other completely innocent songs on the banned list. Any suggestion of men and women sharing a bedroom - like "Leaving on a Jet Plane" were out too. Cheers, Joy |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Bill Hahn//\\ Date: 20 Dec 04 - 06:14 PM I have to add a thought here. Not sure of the meaning, but in Hawaii there is a town called Hanalei. Beautiful place. While interviewing Peter Yarrow a while back I mentioned how I had seen what was probably the inspiration for the line in the song. He insisted that he never heard of it and how could I presume to know where he gets his inspiration. Me---I still think it is from that town---not really a very commong name. I mean, Puff did not dwell in a place called Jersey City. Bill Hahn |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Joybell Date: 20 Dec 04 - 08:52 PM My last comment about the sharing of bedrooms should have read - unmarried people sharing bedrooms. Cheers Joy |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Haruo Date: 20 Dec 04 - 09:20 PM And then there's Puff the calamari |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Blissfully Ignorant Date: 21 Dec 04 - 07:09 AM Maybe it is, maybe it isn't...seems to me that it isn't. One thing is for certain; it sound effing cool when you're stoned... |
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Subject: Lyr Add: PUFF THE MAGIC DRAGON with additions From: Peace Date: 21 Dec 04 - 07:31 AM Opinions we got lots of. Let's examine the song. I will type in capslock to separate what I write from the song. First, a disclaimer. I have never smoked marijuana and never will. But I have a friend who did and he told me all about it. "Puff the Magic Dragon" Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honah Lee, Little Jackie Paper loved that rascal Puff, and brought him strings and sealing wax and other fancy stuff. MY FRIEND TOLD ME [MFTM]THAT WHEN HE GETS STONED HE DOESN'T WANT TO FROLICK. HE WANTS TO EAT. THE HONAH LEE IS SUSPICIOUSLY LIKE SARA LEE. HOWEVER, ONE ROBIN DOTH NOT A SPRING MAKE. A NEST, YES, BUT NOT A SPRING. Oh, Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honah Lee, Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honah Lee. Together they would travel on a boat with billowed sail Jackie kept a lookout perched on Puff's gigantic tail, Noble kings and princes would bow when'er they came, Pirate ships would lower their flags when Puff roared out his name. MFTM THAT WHEN HE IS STONED THE LAST THING HE WANTS TO DO IS FIGURE OUT WHAT A BILLOWED SAIL IS. IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE SAME FOR THE PIRATES, TOO, BECAUSE THEY LOWERED THEIRS. OH, Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honah Lee, Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honah Lee, A dragon lives forever but not so little boys Painted wings and giant rings make way for other toys. One gray night it happened, Jackie Paper came no more And Puff that mighty dragon, he ceased his fearless roar. MFTM THAT 1) DRAGONS DON'T LIVE FOREVER AND IF THEY DID HOW WOULD ST GEORGE HAVE SLEW--SLAYED--SLAIN--BUMPED ONE OFF THEN? His head was bent in sorrow, green scales fell like rain, Puff no longer went to play along the cherry lane Without his life-long friend, Puff could not be brave, So Puff that mighty dragon sadly slipped into his cave. MFTM THAT THE DRAGON SHOULD HAVE USED HEAD AND SHOULDERS AND HE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD THE SCALES-FALLING PROBLEM. Oh! Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honah Lee, Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honah Lee MFTM THAT HE IS CONFUSED BY THIS SONG AND NOW HE WON'T COME OUTTA THE CUPBOARD BECAUSE THERE'S A DRAGON IN THE ROOM. THANKS A LOT. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Blissfully Ignorant Date: 21 Dec 04 - 09:34 AM Your friend has serious vibe issues, man... |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Cruiser Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:58 PM Now, brucie's CAPSLOCK commentary is rock-solid (stoned?). However, since I never really did smoke pot (not implying the good author did) I really think Puff is just a kid's song and nothing else. I admit it is also one of my favorite melodramatic, sentimental songs. Thanks for the lyrics (and humor) brucie. Cruiser |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Peace Date: 21 Dec 04 - 01:02 PM Cruiser: I agree with you. It is a song about leaving things behind. I don't think it has to do with grass at all. I think it has to do with all kids everywhere, and seeing that piece of ourselves outgrow our imaginations and dreams touches the heart. The song, IMO, works on a variety of levels. Children and adults will take very different things away with them. As we know only too well. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Bill Hahn//\\ Date: 21 Dec 04 - 07:47 PM You know what---let us stop analyzing and just say it is a nice song that adults and kids all liked---and Peter Yarrow not withstanding in his mysterious and arrogant ways of impuning my finding Hanalei in Hawaii. Then again, who knows---perhaps he has his own Hanalei somewhere---like Brigadoon it shall rise every 100 yrs. Lets like the song and not analyze a simple song that much. Now Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds......;. Bill Hahn |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Peace Date: 21 Dec 04 - 08:28 PM That's a song about the first female to almost play in the majors. She was on a farm club when a hitter winged her off the head and she went to those baseball fields up above. Not really all that much to analyze there, Bill. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Blissfully Ignorant Date: 22 Dec 04 - 05:49 PM I don't think the song is about pot...seems the people who do aeither belong to the "evil musicians are turning our kids into junkies" brigade, or potheads who have a tendency to interperet every song they hear as being about pot. Neither of these groups are known for their soundness of judgement... |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Tannywheeler Date: 23 Dec 04 - 03:12 AM Oh, man. "Neither of these groups are known for their soundness of judgement." That's one of those laws -- like Murphy's or Newton's or the-square-of-the-hypotenuse thingy. Blissfull's Law. You could embroider it on linen and display it in a frame, like "God is Love." Thanks, BI. Tw |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: kendall Date: 23 Dec 04 - 08:52 AM If Yarrow hadn't used the words PAPER and PUFF I might be inclined to think it was just a children's song. However, he did. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Blissfully Ignorant Date: 23 Dec 04 - 08:53 AM Nah, don't listen to me. I'm a pothead. My judgement is all wonky :0) |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Tannywheeler Date: 23 Dec 04 - 01:21 PM Truth is where you find it, Blissfull. You unwonked this time. Tw |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST Date: 23 Dec 04 - 01:48 PM I was a pot user back in the 70's, and you will never convince me that Puff the majic dragon is not about giving up pot. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: MMario Date: 23 Dec 04 - 01:55 PM g*d forbid the composer/author be believed. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: PoppaGator Date: 23 Dec 04 - 01:59 PM I think GUEST at 1:48 hit the nail on the head: "you will never convince me that Puff the majic dragon is not about giving up pot." The loss of a childlike fantasy world -- makes perfect sense. Never having given up pot, that insight had never occurred to me... |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Blissfully Ignorant Date: 23 Dec 04 - 02:39 PM Unwonked! My new favourite word...:0) |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Peace Date: 23 Dec 04 - 09:58 PM Sounds like it could hurt. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST,puff the magic dragon Date: 26 Nov 05 - 03:52 PM do you really think that they would have based 3 tv specials around a song about pot? oh, wait, it was the 70's, so they probably did. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST Date: 26 Nov 05 - 03:55 PM thank you CBS! |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Georgiansilver Date: 26 Nov 05 - 04:54 PM And I thought 'majic dragon' was block cannabis! I am sure that's what they called the stuff that kept turning up in Torquay when I was a cop! Ah well, you live and learn. Best wishes, Mike. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: leftydee Date: 26 Nov 05 - 06:52 PM I think that song would almost pre-date most of the drug culture. Wasn't it from '62 or '63? The "sixties" were really from about '66 to '74 or so as I disremember. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST,puff the magic dragon Date: 26 Nov 05 - 10:13 PM no, i belive that this song was from '67 or so and then turned into 3 cartoon specials in the late 70's and early 80's |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Ebbie Date: 26 Nov 05 - 11:18 PM I have never heard anyone comment on why Puff was so distraught when he lost his "lifelong friend". If dragons live forever how did it come about that Jackie Paper had been there all the dragon's life? Huh? Tell me that. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Peace Date: 26 Nov 05 - 11:28 PM Because Jackie Paper was from THIS side of forever, Eb. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Ebbie Date: 27 Nov 05 - 12:01 AM Poetic, Peace. I almost understand it. You might say though that the dragon was Jackie's lifelong friend- but not t'other way 'round. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Cluin Date: 27 Nov 05 - 12:20 AM Come on! Puff the Magic Dragon is not about pot! I'm sick of hearing this. It's not true. It's obviously about hash. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Peace Date: 27 Nov 05 - 12:27 AM "Puff the Magic Dragon" is about THIS? |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Dave Hanson Date: 27 Nov 05 - 04:03 AM As one of the worlds leading cynics, I know this song is about a little boy and a dragon, growin up lost, childhood no more. eric |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: leftydee Date: 27 Nov 05 - 12:31 PM Anyone with a date for this tune? I seem to remember it earlier than Guest PTMD. I think of it as a tune from my teenage years and by '67 I was a white punk on drugs listening to a different genre. Hard to say, after all, the late '60s are a mystery to me. Lefty |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Don Firth Date: 27 Nov 05 - 12:40 PM (GAWD! Not THIS again!!) Reminds me of "He whistles dirty songs!" You hear what you expect to hear. Sez more about the listener than it does about the song. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST,puff the magic dragon Date: 27 Nov 05 - 02:55 PM my bad it was '63 not '67 |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 27 Nov 05 - 09:22 PM Jim Dewan in Chicago has a song that just may be a great take off on "Puff The Magic Dragon" I thought it was a really dumb song until I thought about it's title---and then I laughed out loud. The song is called "CRACK THE GENTLE JACKALOPE". I've got to go and listen to that one again and see if it is as funny as I remember! If it isn't, at least Jim's got a unique title there! Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST,puff the magic dragon Date: 28 Nov 05 - 04:57 PM god the 70's were great |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Puff The Magic Dragon Date: 28 Nov 05 - 05:00 PM I am no longer GUEST,puff the magic dragon just Puff The Magic Dragon |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Big Mick Date: 28 Nov 05 - 06:04 PM Take a minute and read the snopes article on the song. The song is based on a poem written in the late fifties by a classmate of Yarrow's. It is a kids song, nothing more. But it sure makes for a great discussion. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Pauline L Date: 29 Nov 05 - 01:36 AM I remember Puff from my years in high school, which were 1962-1965. Even if the song was not written about marihuana, it could have picked up that association later, like passive inhalation. |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: M.Ted Date: 29 Nov 05 - 05:06 PM The melody is almost exactly the same as that of "It's Almost Tomorrow" recorded by the Dreamweavers in the early 50's--Both songs share the the same chord progression as Al Jolson's famous and now extremely politically incorrect lament, "My Mammy"-- For those who like to try such things, a truly disturbing affect can be achieved by segueing from "Puff" into "Mammy"-- |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Tootler Date: 30 Nov 05 - 04:00 AM This thread provides some wonderful examples of how people will believe what they want to believe and no amount of evidence to the contrary will persuade them otherwise <vbg> |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: M.Ted Date: 30 Nov 05 - 01:10 PM Of course, one cannot discount the possibility that the "Pot" myth has helped to reinforce and sustain the song's popularity-- |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Puff The Magic Dragon Date: 30 Nov 05 - 06:40 PM yes I agree, if it had not been for the pot myth, do you really think that this song would still be popular in a sense (ex: why i have this song on a cd in my van) |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: GUEST Date: 03 Dec 05 - 01:08 PM you drive a van? you are a stoner |
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Subject: RE: Puff the Dragon on Pot? From: Puff The Magic Dragon Date: 11 Dec 05 - 08:05 PM yeah, what's your point? |
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