Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?

Subject: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?
From: samirich
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 05:28 AM

I have recently started learning both of these songs and have noticed the obvious similarities between them. Jacob's Ladder(English Carol) and The Woodpecker Song are uniquely similar. Which one came first The Woodpecker(English also) or Jacob's Ladder?

Subject: RE: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 02:55 PM

The English Carol "Jacob's Ladder," in the "Oxford Book of Carols," bears the note "This is apparently a carol to which new words were fitted under the influence of the Methodist revival. It is printed here with its traditional melody, which Stainer made familiar in 1871."
The melody probably has been used for several songs and the traditional melody may be quite old.

"The Woodpecker Song" may be found at www.immortalia.com. and in the Mudcat DT; that version is probably 19th c., but I doubt that this is the one you mention.

Subject: RE: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 11:03 PM

I suppose you aren't talking about the African American spiritual [We are climbin}"Jacob's Ladder?

Can you find the words to The English Carol "Jacob's Ladder" on the Internet? If so where?

And the words aren't found on the Internet, would you please post them?

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?
From: samirich
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 04:51 PM

Jacob's Ladder(English Carol)

As Jacob with travel was weary one day,
At night on a stone for a pillow he lay.
He saw in a vision a ladder so high,
That its foot was on earth and its top in the sky.

The ladder is long it is strog and well made,
Has stodd hundred of years and is not yet decayed;
Many millions have climbed it and reached Sion's Hill,
And thousands by faith are climbing it still.

Come let us ascend all may climb it who will;
For the Angels of Jacob are guarding it still;
And remember each step that by faith we pass o'er,
Some prophet or martyr hath trod it before.

And when we arrive at the haven of rest,
We shall hear the glad words, "Come up hither, ye blest,
Here are regions of light, Here are mansions of bliss." O,
who would not climb such a ladder as this?

Chorus
Hallelujah to Jesus, who died on the tree,
and hath rais'd up a ladder of mercy for me.
And hath rais'd up a ladder of mercy for me.

          The Woodpecker
T. Moore                                  M. Kelly

1st Verse
I knew by the smoke that so gracefully curl'd
Above the green elms, that a cottage was near. And I
said, "If there's peace to be found in the world,
A heart that was humble might hope for it here.
A heart that was humble might hope for it here.

Chorus
Ev-'ry leaf was at rest, and I heard not a sound
But the woodpecker tapping the hollow beech tree.
Ev-'ry leaf was at rest, and I heard not a sound.
Ev-'ry leaf was at rest, and I heard not a sound.
But the woodpecker tapping the hollow beech tree.
The woodpecker tapping the hollow beech tree.

2nd verse
"And here in this lone little wood," I exclaimed.
"With a maid who was lovely to soul and to eye,
Who blush when I prais'd her, and weep if I blam'd.
How blest could I live, and how calm could I die.
How blest could I live, and how calm could I die."

Chorus

Subject: RE: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 06:13 PM

Well a woodpecker pecking sugar, on the school yard door, honey
well a woodpecker pecking honey, on the school yard door, sugar
Well a woodpecker pecking sugar, on the school yard door, honey
An he kept on pecking till his pecker got sore, well a
Till his pecker got sore, now honey
Till his pecker got sore, now, sugar
An he kept on pecking till his pecker got sore.

Early in the Morning - prison work song
Crosscutting (axe) song

Barry

Subject: RE: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?
From: Azizi
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 07:23 PM

Thank you Samirich, for the words to those two songs. I see that the {English Carol} Jacob's Ladder is quite different than the African American spiritual:
We are climbin Jacob's ladder.
We are climbin Jacob's ladder.
We are climbin Jacob's ladder.
Children of the cross.
[etc in the same formulaic pattern]

I have always believed that We are climbin Jacob's ladder was inspired by one or more African Americans hearing the Old Testament biblical story of Jacob having a vision of angels ascending down to earth from a ladder in the sky.*

Could it be possible that some enslaved African American heard that English Carol Jabob's Ladder {as well as the biblical story} and was then inspired to compose that spiritual?

We'll never know. I'm suppose we should just be grateful for creativity wherever and however it is inspired.

* FYI, in Africa and other parts of the world, there are numerous stories of human beings & spiritual beings, and others {humanized animals, spiders etc} traveling on "ladders" from the earth to the heaven and back to the earth again. Eventually-for one reason or another- all these "roads" disappeared.

or maybe not.

Subject: RE: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 05:47 AM

"Jacob's Ladder" (Christmas carol) is in H. R. Bramley and John Stainer's Christmas Carols New and Old (1871).

Subject: RE: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?
From: GUEST,Q as Guest
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 02:38 PM

The English carol also may be found at "Hymns and Carols of Christmas," on the internet, a large and useful website.
In addition to the Bramley and Stainer text and music, the music and text as arranged by Martin Shaw and Percy Dearmer are also included.
www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/jacobs_ladder.htm

The African-Americal spiritual and the English carol are both inspired by the same biblical story, but I doubt that they are related other than by source.

The Mudcat DT has only a poor version of the spiritual with a verse by Seeger. The spiritual first appeared in Allan's "Slave Songs of the United States, 1867. Better versions and discussion are given in thread 131 and others.
Thread 131: Jacob's Ladder
Also see Spirituals Permathread.

Subject: RE: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 09:50 AM

I read the thread title but couldn't see what Jacob's Ladder had to do with

I put my finger in the woodpeckers hole
And the woodpecker said "God bless my soul
Take it out.Take it out
Remove it"

I removed my finger from the woodpeckers hole
And the woodpecker said "God bless my soul
Put it back. Put it back
Replace it"

.....Turn it round
Revolve it

Turn it back
Reverse it

I suspect there may be more, but I can't remember
The tune starts a bit like "I lift up me finger and I say tweet tweet"

Subject: RE: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 08:01 AM

Try the tune Dixie... Mo.. :-)

"... look away, look away, look away Da da dum!..."

Subject: RE: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?
From: Snuffy
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 09:34 AM

"I suspect there may be more, but I can't remember"

Take a lick
Revolting

Subject: RE: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Song?
From: samirich
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 10:44 AM

Guest, Azizi, Q, as Guest, and Masato:

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

The other comments were not on this topic. I did not realize the woodpecker had another version.

Subject: RE: Origins: Jacob's Ladder precede Woodpecker Son
From: Burke
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:20 PM

There's been previous discussion under
Jacob's Vision.