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Tech: Feedback Destroyer
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Subject: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST,Guest, Ted Date: 08 Mar 06 - 06:42 AM Hi, can I tap into your collective wisdom? Does anyone have any experience with, or comments on, the feedback destroyer circuitry marketed by Behringer? In particular their 'DEQ1024'graphic EQ. This sounds like it's a really useful bit of kit, but I don't want to waste money on marketing hype... Thanks, Ted |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: mooman Date: 08 Mar 06 - 06:54 AM Hi Ted, I haven't experience with that particular model but use the Behringer "Shark" anti-feedback device regularly, which works well. Peace moo |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: Richard Bridge Date: 08 Mar 06 - 05:55 PM I haven't got one, but the reviews are favourable. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: michaelr Date: 08 Mar 06 - 08:41 PM Careful buying Behringer. Though it's a German company, it's made in China, and like most China-built stuff has a high failure rate. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 08 Mar 06 - 09:33 PM Our band was tired/wornout/burnt-up/frazzeled....and the drummer was problematic with his bourbon.
A DJ was hired for our annual ball.
The DJ had just purchased this system and added it to his established equipment.
His evaluation was:
Downside, according to him, (remember, the guy is NOT live) is that he frequently turned it off because it "muted the highs and lows and turned them to mush."
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST,Ted Date: 09 Mar 06 - 05:45 AM Thanks, that sounds like a generally positive opinion (with the Chinese caveat, thanks Michaelr). Gargoyle, your no.3 evaluation is closest to my situation - an open mike folk/blues session where I'd like to add a last line of defence. Thanks for helping me make up my mind. Ted |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 09 Mar 06 - 06:48 AM The original basic principle of simple 'feedback destroyers' was to have a number of manually tuned filters of extremely sharp notch type attenuation filters, which were tweaked to depress the amplification level at the frequencies needed. Nowadays you can have 'semi-automatic' ones which have small computers on board, such as PICs, which detect when a particular frequency range is suddenly peaking, and act to cut it back. This may mean that the operator is tempted to 'ride the gain' on the whole amplification chain to a higher level than with the manual ones, leading to the 'muddying of the highs and lows' syndrome. I have no idea of the internal technicalities of the Behringer, or any other. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST,satisfied with Behringer Date: 09 Mar 06 - 10:51 AM also be careful of of xenophobic anti-behringer prejudice and propaganda.. internet musicians forums are plagued with it. Behringer products are excellent value for money, gain regular positive reviews from Music Tech magazines, & are consistently well designed and built to a good standard; they're probably no more unreliable and prone to failure than any American made products are these days. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 09 Mar 06 - 04:51 PM "probably no more unreliable and prone to failure than any American made products " ... which are mostly all made overseas, and have been done so for years. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: Richard Bridge Date: 09 Mar 06 - 05:01 PM Their compressors are less than wonderful (I have one) and their microphones (I have three) are crap. All feedback destroyers will render sound less clean precisely for the reasons stated above - selective narrow band gain reduction. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 09 Mar 06 - 05:14 PM The original idea was just to give a quick on the spot band-aid solution for troublesome temporary venues for which there was no budget for a permanent built solution. Nowadays many people 'push the limits' for as much 'power' as possible, which causes the 'Feedback Destroyers' to work much harder, thus mushing the sound. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: michaelr Date: 09 Mar 06 - 05:29 PM I speak from experience of my own and of several professional sound technicians. Xenophobia has nothing to do with it. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST Date: 10 Mar 06 - 04:40 AM They work - providing you don't expect too much. They won't turn a 1k PA into a 10k PA. You can safely get about 3db increase in output before they start to noticeably affect the sound. If you try and push more, they will progressively start to sound worse and worse. "also be careful of xenophobic anti-behringer prejudice and propaganda" I asked my repair man what he thought of them. He said, "They are generally well built, and don't go wrong any more than anything else really. When they do, it's the chips that fail. If you open up one of their desks, inside it looks virtually identical to the equivalent Mackie - same components etc, but a fraction of the price." Make of that what you will! There are a lot of techno-snobs about. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST,Ted Date: 10 Mar 06 - 06:25 AM Once again, thanks for the opinions. I think that this might well work for me, given that I'm not trying to boost overall sound levels significantly. The main reason for looking at this sort of kit is to tame the occasional 'echo chamber' guitar or (especially) harp. So a few dB of safety margin could be very helpful. As I said yesterday, a last line of defence, much as Foolestroupe suggests. I've used some Behringer kit before, and am currently using one of their EP1500 amps, and have had no problems yet. I'm not too fussed about Chinese build - these days, I tend to assume that any 'value for money' kit is built abroad, and that the innards are all much of a muchness. Sometimes this can work for you; one of my (Chinese) power drills cost me little more to buy than it would have cost to hire the Hitachi or Metabo equivalent for a weekend. A year later it's still going strong. Cheers Ted |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST,HughM Date: 10 Mar 06 - 08:13 AM Irrespective of the reliability, I would ask potential buyers to bear in mind that China continues to occupy Tibet and is liable to arrest and torture any Tibetan who publicly objects to this. The Chinese authorities continue to hold the Panchen Lama captive at an undisclosed location. Anyone possessing a picture of the Dalai Lama can also be arrested. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST,separate issues Date: 10 Mar 06 - 08:20 AM so provide a list of manufacturing nations that currently have pristine records of human rights !? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: treewind Date: 10 Mar 06 - 08:49 AM If you use separate monitors, a good place to use a feedback destoyer is on your monitor feed. That's often where the feedback happens, and using it there doesn't mangle your FOH sound. Anahata |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST Date: 10 Mar 06 - 09:11 AM I've tried various ways of controlling feedback on my accoustic, although I haven't tried the Behringer device in question, but my best buy ever is a sound-hole bung. £5 for a piece of thick rubber isn't a high-tech solution but it works better than anything else I've encountered!! C-flat |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 10 Mar 06 - 09:31 AM about 5 years ago i purchased one of these to try to tame the really unpleasant harsh treble sounding piezo pickup on a budget price electro acoustic bowlback mandolin BOSS AD-3 "The AD-3 gives acoustic-electric instruments a warmer, richer sound thanks to its specially tailored tone shaping controls. It also includes high-quality reverb and chorus, as well as a built-in automatic feedback eliminator. Quite simply, this compact pedal is an acoustic musician's best friend. Compact acoustic instrument processing pedal developed exclusively for gigging acoustic-electric guitarists Foot switchable Bi-Stereo Chorus offers split-frequency processing (Low and High) for natural, smooth chorus effect Studio-quality reverb provides clear, deep reverberation specially tuned for acoustic guitar Newly developed "Bottom" and "Top" controls offer variable tonal shaping to eliminate "dry" sound from Piezo pickups and add rich, resonant lows and brilliant highs as desired Special Guitar Amp output provides proper impedance and tonal balance for great-sounding connection to a guitar amp Stereo balanced outputs allow for direct connection to PA Dual Anti-Feedback function can be manually set to eliminate feedback or can be set to "Auto" mode via foot pedal Batteries included; optional AC adaptorThe AD-3 gives acoustic-electric instruments a warmer, richer sound thanks to its specially tailored tone shaping controls. It also includes high-quality reverb and chorus, as well as a built-in automatic feedback eliminator. Quite simply, this compact pedal is an acoustic musician's best friend." cant say how well it would perform with a decent instrument, but that cheap mandolin was beyond redemption, so i no longer use it or this pedal. ..as for the anti feedback function.. although the mando sounded shit, to its credit, it only ever fed back once at one gig.. but by then i'd forgotten how to use the AD-3 anti feedback function so just pulled the plug out to stop it ! but i'm sure these days anti feedback is a common function in many low price acoustic guitar foot pedal processors [zoom etc] so worth considering.. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 10 Mar 06 - 10:23 AM hmmmmm.. then again.. maybe the anti feedback had been working effectively all the time i used that AD-3 ???? .. and i'd clumsily switched it off on that one isolated occasion..?? .. must read equipment manuals more often.. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST,HughM Date: 10 Mar 06 - 03:03 PM Separate issues, there may be few nations with pristine records on human rights, but there must be plenty whose forces are not occupying neighbouring countries with no intention of withdrawing and continuing to trample on human rights there. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Feedback Destroyer From: GUEST,separate issues Date: 10 Mar 06 - 04:11 PM fair enough, China boycotted then. wait a minute, I can't afford to buy any new music gear any more to communicate my anti-global protest songs in public.. oh bugger.. China unboycotted again..................... |
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