pronunciation please: Planxty

Subject: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: TinaP
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 05:29 PM

The subject says it all. I just found out about this group today in conjunction with their rendition of Child 81, Little Musgrave....would like to learn a bit about them as well as how to pronounce their name. Thanks.

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 05:33 PM

Just like it looks...planks-ty

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: MartinRyan
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 05:33 PM

Plancks (as in thanks) - tee (as in golf) will do nicely!

Regards

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 05:35 PM

The real question(I imagine there must be a thread about it) is what does the term actually mean?

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Effsee
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 05:45 PM

Martin, it's more like Planks-Tay like the Scots river.
Greg, you'll find a lot of Irish tunes titles preceded by the word, it seems to mean "In Honour Of...."

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 05:50 PM

I've been trying to imagine some other plausible way of pronouncing it, but haven't managed yet.

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Jon W.
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 06:08 PM

Planxty was an Irish Trad group from the prolific decade of the 1970's. They have put out a couple more albums since then I believe. Musically they were quite talented. Their arrangements seem to me to be more complex than most groups, less pounding than some groups of the era although they can definitely kick out the jams with their dance tunes. Their version of Little Musgrave is a good example of how a long song (in the neighborhood of 20 verses) can be interesting to listen to throughout due to the complex interweaving of the guitar and bouzouki (or mandolin?) parts, broken up by a superb, understated, and tasteful Uileann pipe solo and by varying the melody every few verses to add emphasis. And whatever else they did.

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Declan
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 06:18 PM

Effsay,

Martin is correct in the pronunciation. I once heard planxtay at a partay.

The derivation of the name that I have heard, and this may be total rubbish, is that it derives from Plancas Tigh and then a name.   Tigh means of the house of so Planxty Burke was the planks of the house of Burke - the sound that the dancing made on the floorboards of a particular house.

This is supposed to date back to the time of wandering musicians such as O Carolan. When he came to the local house if the musician was well treate they would write a Planxty in your honour, if not they would write a piece of music called an 'aor' or satire which would not tend to do your reputation as a host much good. A good way of ensuring that musicians were well treated!

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 06:55 PM

Bridgie, who hosts the Irish music show on our local co-op radio station, claims that "planxty" is a regional dialect pronunciation of the word usually spelt "slainte" (plus or minus a diacritical mark or two). Comments?

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Peace
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 08:45 PM

From Wikipedia

"Planxty was an Irish folk music band formed in the 1970s by Christy Moore, Dónal Lunny, Andy Irvine (a founder of the Irish mid-sixties group Sweeney's Men), and Liam O'Flynn (piper).

The name Planxty comes from a word used by the classic harpist Turlough O'Carolan in many of his works, and is thought to mean a tribute to a particular person ("Planxty Irwin", for example, being a tribute to Colonel John Irwin of Sligo). "Planxty" is believed to be a corruption of the Irish word and popular toast "sláinte", meaning "good health". Others claim that the word is not Irish in origin but comes from the Latin "plangere," meaning to strike or beat."

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Effsee
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 08:58 PM

JonW,...."Musically they were quite talented."....that has to be the understatement of any Century! Planxty, however it is pronounced, were the earthquake in Irish music in the late 60s, Sean O'Riarda started it, The Chieftains continued it ,but it was Planxty that set the heather on fire! If you're not of that era ,you'll never understand how the earth moved at the first hearing of Planxty! It led on to Bothy Band et al, it's all Donal Lunny's doing of course! I've never heard it pronounced any other way than "Plankstay" in 35+ years!

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 09:06 PM

And in just as long, I've never once heard it pronounced other than as spelled. I expect it depends where you live.

Carolan himself rarely seems to have used the word, though it has been added by later editors to many of his compositions. The etymology is not established, though various suggestions, some more convincing than others, have been made over the last century or so, and some have attained the status of received wisdom; though many are probably no more than modern myth. Most, I think, are mentioned in earlier discussions here on the subject; along with other comments, some helpful, some rather less so. See, for example

What's a Planxty? (2000)
Planxty? (1998-2001)
Uh-h-h Planxty? (1999-2001)

The most reliable information is probably in thread  Planxty' - Meaning / Origins ?. See Bonnie Shaljean's post in particular.

I don't recall the pronounciation being brought up before, though.

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 09:42 PM

Andy Irvine performed in Brisbane on Saturday, and referred to PlanxtEE....

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: open mike
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 10:49 PM

Isn't a "planxty" a certain form of tune
like a genre, such as jig, reel, horpipe, planxty, etc.
(such as a Strathspey --Scottish)

denoting a certain time signature, speed, etc.??

or maybe i just thought that because i often see the
word in tune titles...

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Paul Burke
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 02:37 AM

Are (non- neo) planxties attributed to anyone apart from Carolan? The only one I can think of offhand is what was recorded by Finbarr Furey as "Planxty Davy" in the late 60s or so. That is "There Are Two William Davises In This Place", supposedly composed by a Scottish harper whose name I've forgotten.

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: GUEST,Richard
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 03:41 AM

I always thought it it was "Planks D. Irwin" (and his brother Big D.)."Swingin' on a star " must have been a harp tune originally.
Richard

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 04:50 AM

In my mind's ear, I can just about hear the late Derek Bell getting somewhere near that diphthong-y "ay" sound! An Northern rising inflection thing, methinks.

Regards

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 05:38 AM

An early spelling is "Blangtys" though whether this sheds any light on possible etymology or meaning is doubtful. I find the "corruption of slainte" explanatiion highly unlikley.

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 05:41 AM

Dunno about the pronunciation but here are some definitions.

1. "planxty. A type of tune written in honour of a patron, particularly associated with 17th century harper Turlough Carolan. The term may derive from the Irish 'sláinte' (meaning health). Carolan's handful of 'planxties' are in 6/8 time, with one - 'Planxty O'Rourke'- also appearing in a variant, 3/4 time".
(Companion to Irish Traditional Music. Cork Univ. Press. 1999).

2. "planxty. ['may come from the Latin 'plangere' (supine, planxtum), on the model of the existing Irish word 'planncaim', which means to strike (the harp)...The term probably originated with Carolan, as it does not appear to be found before his time, nor does it occur except in connection with his tunes' (Donal Sullivan 'Carolan'
1958)]."

3. "planxty. A type of lively dance tune originally for the harp, slower than a jig. [from]Ir[ish] plancstaí (onomatopoeic, from the sound of the harp. Compare the English 'plink' etc".
(A Dictionary of Hiberno-English. T.P.Dolan, Gill & Macmillan, 1999).

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 05:49 AM

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 05:53 AM

Just had the brilliant idea to check an Irish language dictionary!

1. "planc" = beat, pummel.

2. "plancstaí" = Planxty.

!!

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 05:57 AM

Big Tim

Is that from a recent dictionary? It's probably still pointing at a Latin origin - though that may just be my ageing prejudice!

Regards

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: menzze
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 05:58 AM

The song Finbar& Eddie Furey recorded in 1968 is called "Dainty Davy" not Planxty Davy. You'll find on their album "The town is not their own".
But they also did a recording as the Furey Family in 1975 together with their father Ted on which you can find a tune called "Planxty Irwin/Bunch of Keys"

menzze

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: DannyC
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 05:59 AM

Here's a rambling relic (written several years ago) of my own introduction the word - Planxty:

PLOWED BY THE STARS

When the gods bowl into my music life – they chuck a quick strike.

Last night I had signed and settled the forty pound check with magic
plastic, and the lamb curry that Beverly and I had shared was already
rumbling within.    The Kashmir Restaurant was clearing for the
night, save the group of five who approached an adjacent table to be
seated.   Suddenly, within a widening eye, stood Andy fawgin' Irvine
(gawd, how could you gasp that out so rudely, Dan!?!?).

Is Beverly really talking the box with Jackie beyond?   She reports
she plays a B/C. Says Daly, "I am sorry to hear of your troubles."

I just do not do well with these sorts of encounters, and the Lads
all seem tired.   I offer a string of goofy remarks that fall flat.
We roll the lane home, surely bouncing off a few public utility
pins - a shame it wasn't right for just a few quiet tunes.

Sleep was light and I snapped awake near 5AM. Some people call
alertness in that guarded hour "The Watch".

Out of the well of the dark wall emerged a crowd of shrill girls at
the Wildwood Talent Show/Contest in August of '66 snickering as I
sang "Macushla" and one other – maybe "Roddy McCorley" (That would
be Granny's request).   I was falling flat, and slick from sweat -
the Aran jumper (Mary's notion) hung like a hair shirt in the South
Jersey heat. The scolding from the management (between my songs)
made it much worse.   I wished for - a magic show disappearing act -
the Pillar – the Docket – the Cross. Torn to tatters I stuck it to
the last note.   The thieving Beatles imitation got a nose up on the
Booker T clone, settling win and place. The judges gave me a third
for pity - $10.00 show money I would gladly have foregone.

What remained rode back to the vacation flat amongst women - Aunties
Mary and Alice, Mom and Grann. Uncles Jimmy, Jack and Jerry (the
three Barabi!) had skipped the scene, weathering out the sacrifice
with beer and a ballgame.   Aunt Mary McGinn sought to console
me, "You were the only one where you could understand the words,
Danny. We're proud." I was quietly finished with Irish singing -
the Church was also secretly under review – the O'Neill blood was
stirring - hair was sprouting everywhere. My own private Macushla
Revolt was on ….

August of '76 and John S. wants to put this record on the turntable
that his sister brought him from her travels in Eire. (In a house
full of musicians, consensus must be built, lest you pollute the
air. – I'm probably sitting there polishing up Jagger's "Love in
Vain".) "How the hell do you say that again? Plank what?"   When
the needle hits the spinning wheel – the Irish are redeemed! I am
again the proud son of a son of a Belfast lint head.    I ask Ralph
the genius, "Man, what are the chords?"   Says he, "I don't think
there are chords, Danny, I think you have to go after it all to get it right."   And so I have, with a flawed fervor, ever since.

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Paul Burke
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 06:04 AM

Nono menzze, it was on Finbarr's solo album "Irish Traditional Pipe Music" from long long ago. And it was Planxty Davy.

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: GUEST,Bill the Collie
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 06:43 AM

TinaP

Thanks, what a lovely thread you started, there.

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Stu
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 06:51 AM

I envy you TinaP.

Listening to Planxty records for the first time was a musical epiphany for me. It has lead onto so much pleasure for me, I started out on the bodhran and moved on from there.

After you have all Planxty's records, try The Bothy Band, Altan, Cran, Dervish etc

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:36 AM

Martin,

The dict. is "Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla" by Niall Ó Dónaill, 1977 (1992 reprint).

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:49 AM

I remember the first time I heard them do "The Ludlow Massacre". Here I was, raised to always know Ireland and its customs, and early on in a career as a Union Organizer, and it is this Irish band giving me what I consider the touchstone version of a Woody Guthrie labor song. Planxty became, and remains, for me the seminal group of its time. The music they created is as relevant, vibrant, and exciting as it was the first day they made it.

Didn't they do a reunion tour or gig recently?

Mick

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Den
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 10:04 AM

They did indeed Mick in 2004 and released a live album in commemoration. There is talk of them doing more gigs in the future and possibly a studio album.

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Effsee
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 10:26 AM

The 2004 Concert is also available on DVD...it's superb!

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:20 PM

Hey Greg!! Memory cells are getting rusty, mate… Do you not recall your own excellent definition of "planxty" in THIS THREAD ? To wit:

"…People mostly seem to ignore the obvious onomatopeic nature of the word. You try to imitate a harp, and I would be surprised if you didnt come up with a plink, plank or plunk (or pluck or plangere or plearaca). And then of course there were the English masons building St pauls after the Great Fire of London, when tea first started becoming popular in England. For their tea breaks they used temporary tables made by laying two or three planks across two blocks of stone, and habitually sung cheerful songs during these welcome periods of relaxation. Their preferred very strong brew with plenty of sugar became commonly known as "plank tea" or "planks tea", and so by extension the term became used to describe their tea-breaks, and the songs they sang during them…"

Government health warning: That thread is one of those that got mixed up in the Great Scramble of '05 and hasn't yet recovered so the posts are all out of order, with the original one buried somewhere in the middle.

In fact, for the most scholarly and complete definition & usage of this term, consult Donal O'Sullivan's definitive biog, "Carolan, The Life Times & Music Of An Irish Harper".

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Charmion
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:38 PM

Edmund and I just brought our turntable out of hibernation after too long, and I did the test after assembly with a Planxty record -- the one with The Blacksmith on it -- that I don't think I have listened to since 1990. Just as thrilling as it was in 1982, when I bought it, all bug-eared (as it were) at the wonderful sounds. Some albums go dead after 10 or 20 years; that one is just as fresh now as it was then.

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Jon W.
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:53 PM

Listening to Planxty records for the first time was a musical epiphany for me.

Me too. Until then I didn't listen to any folk music (or any music at all) except blues. Now I do both. My previous understatment was not meant to be disparaging in any way.

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Kaleea
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:55 PM

We have fascinating minds here at the Mudcat! I took the Irish Harp because I so loved the tunes of Carolan. I can guarantee you that I've made plently of plink, plank, plunk sounds.
   The various theories all seem sound-I can't help wishing that we could ask Mr. Bell. Does anyone recall him expounding on the subject? What about Grainne Yeats?

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 01:25 PM

Big Tim

Dineen (1927) has "plannc" for the beat/pummel sense (softer a-sound) - and "planctsaí" for planxty.

Regards

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: TinaP
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 02:09 AM

Thank you to you all, such an enthusiastic crowd! I should have checked the archive before I sent out my pronunciation question, but it has been such fun watching this build that I don't have too many regrets. I still have not listened to Planxty yet, being in a time of penny-counting, but I definitely have to hear and have the Little Musgrave which is what started it all for me. I must figure out in what setting I will fire it up the first time, just in case I swoon....

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 04:13 AM

Christy does a fantastic version of Little Musgrave on the 2004 DVD referred to above. Also, Andy's rendition of his West Coast of Clare is probably better, more lived in, than the original.

Splash out that credit card Tina!

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 07:07 AM

I used to watch Christy solo whenever he came to Brum, so I was very keen to hear Planxty's first LP(!).
I think I got it free with a subscription to Folk Review round about 1972?

Subject: RE: pronunciation please: Planxty
From: Jon W.
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 06:06 PM

I think just about all of Planxty's recordings are at emusic.com - you can usually get a free trial there and download a bunch of it free and legal.