Child-safe music

Subject: Child-safe music
From: Vixen
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 09:55 AM

This popped into mind reading child-safe sea chanties:

As the organizer of a bluegrass concert, I fielded a call from (presumably) a concerned parent. She asked, "will this concert be suitable for children?" I thought a moment, and said "well, they'll probably be hearing songs about drunkards, murderers, adulterers and train robbers. I guess you'll have to decide." The woman says "but what will they be wearing on stage?" (I assumed she meant the musicians...)

True story.

Kids are naturally curious about adult life, and a lot of our traditional music explores a lot of its more confusing and disturbing aspects. IMHO, it's probably safer to let them hear it in song than to have them watch it in graphic detail on the screen. And it's got to be "safer" than watching performers in tight clothes lip-synching through explicitly provocative choreography...

Just my $0.02, fwiw.

V

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 10:10 AM

My son who will be 21 on the 13th of April has been going to festivals since he was 6 days old.He graduates in July with an IT Computer Science Degree behind him.He loves all kinds of music from folk to garage and i think he has come out of folk festivals well.
Scooby.

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 10:34 AM

The idea that hearing ANY songs or music is going to affect the development of an ordinary child is codswallop! When I was a kid we sang along with my Dad when we were out driving - ALL sorts of songs , though none with any 'Bad' language . At the age of ten I did a duet with a school friend of 'Cigareets and Whusky ' at a Class Christmas end of term event . My current friends may NOT agree , but I dont think it ever did ME any harm !

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Wesley S
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:09 AM

I wonder how many times I sang "Great big gobs of greasy grimy gopher guts" ? So far I havn't disemboweled any gophers. Yet.

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:17 AM

Exactly!!!!!
Scooby

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:27 AM

I've don't think ANY music is Chld-safe.
Once they get their hands on it they'll have it wrecked and grubby within minutes.......
Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Grab
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 12:30 PM

I don't want to think about tight-costumed bluegrass players doing explicit choreography. Especially not the ones with beards.

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Scoville
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 12:54 PM

My parents considered "Jesse James" and "Captain Kidd" (Oh, I murdered William Moore and I left him in his gore . . .") to be lullabies. I think I knew all the words to both "Joe Hill" and "Lightning Bar Blues" by the time I was seven. I knew what they meant, too. I turned out just fine. It can't be worse than anything they see on prime-time television.


Unless Britney Spears has changed genres, I don't think anyone needs to worry about scantily-clad bluegrass musicians (topless accordion, anyone?).

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 01:02 PM

All sea songs can be tempered for your audience, I can give you examples of words that can be used in place of both Bawdy and contentious ones, if you have a song you want censored ( saving the most obviously too bawdy) send it to me i'll change the lyrics for you.

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 04:22 PM

I second a notion from the "child safe chantey" thread - it's not a matter of making the songs CHILD safe but rather PARENT safe. You tailor your restrictions to the parent-audience.

Even if the parents aren't present, you can probably count on the kids singing whatever they learn. So if you're looking for repeat gigs and to avoid tempting parents to seek legal action, get an idea of the tolerance of the parents before launching into anything that could be considered controversial by a "modern" (i.e. historically ignorant and hysterically protective) adult.

This also has echoes from a recent thread on "what topics should you not make songs about" - the treatment of the topic has a fair amount to do with whether or not it's offensive (humor or satire can defuse much pain & anger). Unfortunately, kids may parrot the words - and parents may hear them - without knowing (or at least without deeply embracing) the historical referent nor the intended treatment.

All that being said, there are some people who will choose to find offense in ANYthing. "When correctly viewed, everything is lewd" as Prof. T. Lehrer so aptly put it.

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: cool hand Tom
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 07:18 PM

Kinda like my litte cousin Luke.Never was allowed to play with toy guns,army games etc excluded from all bad things all his child life.Reached 18 and stabbed a guy to death.rest my case.

Regards Tom

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Mo the caller
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 03:58 AM

Is there a difference between children learning these songs in a family context, and being confronted with something in a classroom situation.

At a folk festival the entertainment is aimed at adults, children can ignore bits they don't understand; parents can explain or gloss over as asked, and tell children that not everyone would like this part of the song (or even that they didn't much like it themselves).

Songs sung for children in the classroom etc. should be about things that are within their grasp.
If you tell children that shantymen made up "rude" verses their imaginations will suggest acceptably unacceptable versions.

Next thread. Are fairy tales suitable for children

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Paul Burke
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 04:05 AM

What's a child safe? Is it more secure than a play pen?

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Crystal
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 04:18 AM

I was singing songs about extra marital sex when I was aged 10! The only thing which shocked me was when my peers started singing explicit pop music. Possibly this is because traditional style songs tend to have a moral, while "I'm horney, horney, horney, horney," probably can't even be said to have a lyrical structure (or tune for that matter!).

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 07:42 AM

Scoville -- bottomless accordion is probably more dangerous.

(I've got a newspaper clipping about co-ed naked accordion playing in a laundromat in Michigan.)

Linn

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 07:48 AM

Oh, almost forgot.

A friend brought her 3 or 4 year old grandaughter to the Press Room session -- dressed in red shoes and a frilly "dancing dress" (her term) -- specifically for her to hear her favorite song that Tom sings. It's his, uh, "cowboy" song about the cowboy blinded by turds. She loved to sing the chorus: "Toorah-loo, toorah-lay, a rolling stone gathers no moss so they say / Sing along with the birds / It's a wonderful song but it's all about turds."

Linn

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 08:56 AM

My brother and I used to chorus what we heard our parents and friends singing late a night about some amazing tinker:

With his bloody great windshield wipper...

My Mother at the age of 88 is still amused.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: John Hernandez
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 08:56 AM

Jazz, blues, and ragtime were once considered unsuitable for children. It was music that celebrated the bad life and the musicians who played it often led the bad life. I don't know if any children went bad just by listening, but parents didn't want their kids to be corrupted by the jazzman's lifestyle.

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Scoville
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 10:06 AM

Well, if it were a big old piano accordion, it probably wouldn't matter if it were topless or bottomless, or both. It's those little diatonics and concertinas that force you to make awkward choices about what part of the anatomy you most wish to cover.

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Cool Beans
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 11:06 AM

Say, Bat Goddess, where exactly is that laundromat? I live in Michigan. (I do not play the accordion.)
CB

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 02:33 PM

will this concert be suitable for children?

This question in Germany would mean: does it last too long, is it too loud, is the type of music too modern, can children walk around during concert, will there be soft drink available, but noone would even dream that this question might mean what the American understanding of such a question seems to be.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 05:12 PM

Scoville, I really don't think the "nude accordionist" posts have to do with covering up strategic spots. It's more to do with being pinched, I believe.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 04:26 PM

For what it's worth, I think there is a difference between what we choose to sing in an event or workshop geared especially for children and one geared for adults in which children just happen to be present. If, for example, I'm going to be singing for a school or a children's reading hour in a library, I would err on the side of caution. I'd like folksingers to be allowed to sing there again, among other things. Also, not all kids are the same - some will deal well with the bawdier aspect of the songs; others won't be able to handle it. Many just won't understand.

It's not a matter of protecting our own children - it's a matter of respecting other families' decisions in an environment that is advertised as being child-oriented.

Just my two cents.

Dan Schatz

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: GUEST,me
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 08:04 PM

Careful, Dan - they don't like that kind of talk around here.

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 02:31 PM

That's all right - since I was raised on unexpergated sea chanties and didn't do me and @$#! harm, I have all the traditionalist credintials I need.

And I do understand the argument that we shouldn't artificially protect kids from traditional music in its open form - I even agree with it and see nothing wrong with bringing a kid to a cincert of, for example, sea chanties. But I wouldn't sing "Paddy Lay Back" in a "children's concert," even though I loved it when I was five. I have a nice head. I want to keep it.

Dan Schatz

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: GUEST,Folk Parent
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 03:17 PM

Check Ted Mathews and his "Rainbow Frog" recording. He has a great way with kids and his original songs are wonderful.

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: BB
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 02:41 PM

If children are present in what is essentially an 'adult' environment, rather than a child-centred one, my take on it is that if they don't understand, it won't hurt them, and if they do understand, it's too late!

Barbara

Subject: RE: Child-safe music
From: GUEST,jp
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 11:10 AM

I laughed at the end of the first post - the woman asking about what
the musicians would be wearing (seemingly unconcerned about the content.)
I remember an innocuous little ditty sung in the early 60's - something on a record my oldest sister owned.
Went something like this"
"hooka tooka my sodah cracka
does your mama chaw tobacca?
If your mama chaws tobacca, sing-
hooka tooka my sodah cracka."

About 18 years later I heard the story from someone at a folk festival. Don't know if it's true or not, but seems way back in the early days of the 20th century, somewhere down south - could've been New Orleans, could've been St. Louis....kids were known to hang around outside certain brothel districts, and when the heat - the vice - the cops - showed up, they'd start hollering this song, just to let the good folks who were partying it up inside these establishments- know that they were in for a raid.
I suppose those were streetwise kids, no doubt.
And I suppose you can speculate endlessly about the exact extent of their involvement within the community.

Perhaps this debate goes to a similar place the one about violent cartoons goes. Me and all my friends watched them, soaked them up endlessly as kids, and far as I know, not one of us ever turned into a serial anything (although I do love a good bran flake now and then.)

The term "child safe" rings my bell in a particular way.
When that word "child" comes up, I want to know the age cut-off right away.
And when this is referring to anyone in high school, I'm aware this includes teenagers up to the age of 18. My step-dad was starting a family at that age. I'm sure he would have taken a dim view of the term.
Most self-respecting adolescents I know despise the term. I always thought that was a pretty healthy attitude. They're looking forward, not back, and can't stand the idea of being dragged backwards.

All that being said - about the most risque thing I heard as a kid was Donovan's "Mellow Yellow"...that I can remember.
The world has changed somewhat, in terms of lyrical content, and in terms of how the music is delivered.

I've always found myself wondering the same thing, however: What the hell does a video artist wearing underwear on the outside have to say to a six-year-old?
I'm not surprised they're drawn to modern pop - kids always are.
What's a shame is that from this point on - everything thrown at them that is supposedly designed for kids - is instantly archaic and out of date.
There is a whole world of great music out there for kids to discover, way beyond just the stuff churned out by the big pop machine - which of course uses sex to the max to sell its product.

I suppose as with many things - as kids tune into a whole world of creative expression, it helps to stay involved with where they're at, and what they actually think of what they're seeing and hearing.
I remember I read James Baldwin at the age of 11 or so - didn't have a clue what a lot of his stuff was about - but I had great talks with my mom about it.

I guess this subject falls right in there with the whole issue of independent mobility - so many kids don't have that anymore.
And the sad and scary part is - so many people don't seem to care. They've worked like the devil to create a world that is so child-unfriendly - that kids need endless protection from it.
From the age of 9 to 13 - in those 5 years of my life - I learned every inch of the city I grew up in. On my own and with friends. The last thing in the world we wanted was adult involvement, or supervision.
At that age I could spin into the Odeon theatre and watch "adult" movies on a Sunday afternoon. Great stuff. Marlon Brando, Bette Davis, Paul Newman, Natalie Wood, Sidney Poitier, Gene Hackman.....

I guess what I really question about today's set-up is the whole notion of specialized "kiddie-cult" pap churned out by the industry - a corporate makeover that sanitizes our world out of anything that remotely resembles reality, and politically corrects it in a nauseatingly blown-dry sort of way.
I grew up in a very Roman Catholic town (northern French Canadian) stepping-stone families...a dozen was the average size) and us kids were all fond of quoting from our "red-letter" editions.
Nevertheless, we were pretty free, curious, healthy, happy, irreverent...not above questioning and challenging the social order.

The point is - kids don't springboard from 6 to 16 instantly.
But that natural evolution of change (that I remember) is taking a beating these days.
If we have to throw up endless webs of protection around them like straightjackets, we need to question just why it is we need it.
It's the adults in the picture that have made the world, not the kids.

I take my hat off to the poster who commented - perhaps its the adults who need protection from the artform, after all!

regards,
jp