BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?

Subject: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 07:44 AM

Who will actively campaign against the BNP this election on the streets of the wards they will contest?

I'm sick of hearing all this talk but no action. I contacted http://www.uaf.org.uk/ and they are sending me leaflets to put out in my ward. They also put me in contact with UAF organiser.

So yes or no, who will do something. I have 50,000 leaflets coming and will happily post them to anyone.

Yes or No?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 08:03 AM

No

As most voters are not very aware they probably do not know the BNP exist or what they stand for.

The most effective election strategy is to keep it that way and let the BNP pay for their own publicity.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Concerned citizen
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:06 PM

Sorry, Shambles, can't agree. The problem as I perceive it is that scratch most people and just a little under the surface is a huge amount of ill-informed and ugly racism - just what the BNP is looking for. Most people know who the BNP are but many are unaware of their historical (and current) thuggery. They are politicians only in the sense that any fascist is a politician: one who believes neither in politics, democracy nor freedom. I have not signed my name to this post because I know about the thuggery of the BNP and their kind first hand. I do not understand how racism and incitement to racism is a crime but a party built on that principle is legal.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Love Music Hate Racism
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 08:56 AM

Unite Against Fascism is organising a national Day of Action against the BNP on sunday,30th April.
Also "Love Music Hate Racism" is planning a series of anti fascist gigs,carnivals and events in the run up to the local council elections on the 4th May.
These will include a free concert featuring Belle and Sebastian at Trafalgar Sq in London on sunday 29th April.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 09:03 AM

That's great, trendy youth, smart assed students high on dope and don't forget the 40 somethings, there to say, heah, we understand you and make fools of themselves dancing and go into work next day and be able to do nothing only talk about how wonderful it was, simply because there is nothing in their boring lives and this was their first outing in years !
Why not go to Africa or the Middle East and see if they are hosting a welcome British day ? You are sad sad people.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Emma B
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 09:16 AM

Why not go to Africa or the Middle East and see if they are hosting a welcome British day ? You are sad sad people.

Why should anyone who wants to protect their country from the likes of the thugs and racists of the BNP want to do that anywhere else except in the land that they love!
And if it's possible to do that with music instead of the hatred displayed by you "Gillian" so much the better

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 09:21 AM

To Gillian
What a dismissive comment you have written.Do you support the fascist BNP or are you so jaded that you see any sign of opposition to them as sad or boring.
We know about the BNP and we know it has to be opposed.Its leaders have a track record for organised racism,thuggery and biggotry .Their heroes Hitler and his henchmen.
Give me those smarty assed students to those would be aryan supermen anyday!!
In the 1920s Hitler was on the fringes of German politics within a decade he was leading one of the most cultured nations in the world-the country of Beethoven and Goethe down the road that led to the holocaust and barbarism.
Better to fight the fascists now rather than leave it until they are grown powerful.
Ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Dg
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 10:41 AM

I too can't believe the comment by Gillian above. What an ignorant, stupid thing to say.
Gillian, it's you who should get a life. It's amazing to think people with your attitudes still exist.
Sorry for getting mad, but racism is the one thing that gets me really angry.

This machine kills fascists.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 11:00 AM

a pathetic response to the first question. what a joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 12:04 PM

I am a good Ulster woman living in Great Britain, that's all. As a member of the Ulster Democratic Party I am used to hearing such stupid remarks such as the above being made against our party leader, who may I add has just been called to the House of Lords.

I currently live in England and am more or less used to listening to the likes of silly people such as the lady above.

In the fullness of time you will realise how right I am in my viewpoints. I will be returning to Ulster later in the year and take this part of the United Kingdom as a living example.

You have so much to learn.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 12:51 PM

I'm sorry to say, but people have to get along... I'm all for being proud of where you're from, but crikey, the BNP won't help anybody. They're all a bunch of scaremongering thugs, who prey on people living in poor run-down areas. The UK has always been a nation of immigrants and for people to start getting on some moral high horse because of the colour of their skin, or religion is pathetic.
You may also like to know that immigration is good for the economy.
Stop reading the Telegraph and the Daily Mail!!

I'll be doing all I can this May to spread the anti-fascist message.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 12:52 PM

Actually, Gillian, it is you who have much to learn.

When you are debating an issue, you resort to calling people stupid and silly. That means you can't defend your comments in a reasonable way.

Is it true that "good Ulster women" can't dance?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Emma B
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 12:54 PM

From the BBC website -

"The UDP has strong links with the banned loyalist paramilitary group, the Ulster Freedom Fighters.
The UDP left the peace talks in January 1998 after the UFF admitted taking part in the killing of three Catholics. If it had not left, it would have been suspended as parties are not allowed in the talks if groups to which they are linked take part in violence.
The party was re-admitted in February 1998 and later signed up to the Good Friday Agreement.
The UDP leader is Gary McMichael. The party has no MPs and to the surprise of many failed to win any assembly seats."

or did you mean the Democratic Unionist Party "Gillian"? - you seem a little confused for a "good Ulster Woman"

I don't think you have much to teach "Gillian"

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 01:13 PM

Nice work Emma!

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 01:55 PM

I am an Ulster Democatic, not to confuse you with the Ulster Unionist Party, I stated Ulster Democatic Party, as that is what most over here seem to refer to us as. Sorry for the confusion. Yes it is the D.U.P. And we are not racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 01:58 PM

How do you feel about Catholics Gillian, particularly the black ones?
G..

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 06:22 AM

I am an Ulster Democatic, not to confuse you with the Ulster Unionist Party, I stated Ulster Democatic Party, as that is what most over here seem to refer to us as. Sorry for the confusion. Yes it is the D.U.P. And we are not racist.

I am now totaly confused. What does 'Yes it is the DUP' mean? Because, according to their own website, the DUP is the Democratic Unionist Party. The Ulster Democrats appear to be catered for by Ulster Democratic Party (UDP), amongst others.

So, if you are an Ulster Democrat, not an Ulster Unionist, then how come it is the DUP you seem to support? And who are the 'we' who are not racist?

Help! Where is Divis when you need him? :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 10:45 AM

The D.U.P. is the Democratic Unionist Party. They are the largest British Democratic party in Ulster.

The Ulster Unionist Party is the rejected party that once held power in Ulster.

Our party stand for justice and freedom of religious beliefs for all British Citizens who support the British way of life and honour our Queen and remember our glorious history with passion.

Simple as that, my goodness, such silly questions are turning up.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 12:05 PM

Gillian
You are an idiot!!
The loyalists in Nortern Ireland have decades long record of bullying and oppressing the catholic minority in their midst.
Everything from police brutality,housing jerrymandering and the denial of jobs to catholics .Civil rights marchers were cruelly attacked by loyalists mobs in the mid 60s and whole neighbourhoods of catholics were attacked and burnt out by these same people.DUPloyalists have been at the forefront with their anti catholic hatred.
James Conolly said many years ago that the partition of Ireland would lead to a carnival of repression and how right he was!!
Ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 12:59 PM

There is simply no place for intimation, hate for human beings, Intolerance of anyones faith and sheer narrow mindedness in the twenty first century.

The message is as simple as that.

The world is multi cultural, there is a world outside of your front door madam and no single individual holds any given right to object to the lifestyle of others.

I see you are a Christian. I am glad you hold a faith. Please tell me in which part of your teaching is it acceptable to condemn individuals or races of people if they don't hold the same viewpoint of yourself ?
Do the words, Live and let live, or no man or woman has the right to hold judgement over another come to mind ?

The Ulster Democratic Party in Ulster has more or less vanished. Most fell into the ranks of the Democratic Unionist Party which is lead by Ian Paisley a self proclaimed doctor and minister. I need not go into his self apointed titles as I see Emma has covered all bases. Well done by the way Emma.

The D.U.P. are anything but a democratic party. They have a long history of hate against Catholics. The also hold a major dislike of other churches such as Methodist, Church of Ireland and Baptist. And these are churches of the Protestant faith, simply because they do not hold their extreme values.

The late Billy Wright was the leader of the Loyalist Volunteer Force who were extremists and their murder campaign was against Catholics.
The Rev, William Mc Crea a senior member of the D.U.P. shared a platform with him on three ocassions. One at a loyalist show of strength, one against the Police at Drumcree church and the last one at a National Front demo in Belfast, funded and supported by the BNP.

There is no need to keep avioding direct questions as to where you stand madam. I know exactly where you stand and know where your party stand too.

What about your parties stance against the building of three mosques in the North of Ireland ? All sadly where in areas in which the D.U.P. controlled the local councils and none received planning permission on the grounds there were either enough churches in the area, or another excuse was the local schools couldn't cope if there was a new community arriving !

Here in the North of Ireland I am seeing more and more cultures coming into the country and I think it's great that they are. The troubles are behind us I feel and other cultures feel safer now arriving. Long may this continue.

Yes there have been a number of racial attacks on houses and cars, all
carried out in areas which the D.U.P. controlled. The police will confirm this.Thankfully these attacks are small in number.

I don't have many fans on this site due to my Republican views, but I will be dammed if you think a bigot and a hypocrite is going to speak of Christian valves out of one side of her mouth and breath fire from the other.

With respect given to your freedom of views, and the rights you feel of your party. Understand that as of now any future posts with be met with a response of fact, truth and probably for you embarrassment.

Divis

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:19 PM

So, who IS Gillian?????

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:26 PM

What is she...?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,redhorse at work
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 03:00 AM

Obviously not what she says she is: party members NEVER get the name of their party wrong. Surely not Dave Hannam or zelger masquerading as an Ulsterwoman??

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 03:18 AM

Thread drift is in full swing here!!

Get back to debating the problems of "multiculturalism", the influx of workers from eastern Europe, and the sense of betrayal felt by the "British white working class" which underpins the support for what is of course a Fascist grouping.

By the way, any government which we elect from now on, whether Labour , Conservative or anything else, is likely to be Fascist in nature thanks to the sterling work in removing our civil rights and personal freedoms carried out by Blair and his "Stormtroopers"..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Emma B
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:22 AM

I would be happy to discuss multiculturism here, or any where else, but NOT with a "Guest" who immediately defines it a a "problem"

"Who are we British? For a long time the UK has been a multicultural state composed of England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and also a multicultural society... made up of a diverse range of cultures and identities, and one that emphasises the need for a continuous process of mutual engagement and learning about each other with respect, understanding and tolerance."

In other words, dual identities have been common, even before large scale immigration" - Professor Sir Bernard Crick Chair of the "Life in the UK" report

I would agree that the present day working class is justified in feeling betrayed by the current employment legislation which fails to offer even the same protection to workers as their European counterparts but this is by no means peculier to the white population.                                                    However it has long been the tactics of the BNP and their ilk to divide workers between themselves and provide an easy scapegoat for their economic ills, whether it be the Jews of Hitler's Germany or the Black, Asian and Eastern European population of present day Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:36 AM

If anything we in the North of Ireland are the newcomers to multiculturism.

Due to the Troubles few other cultures came over here in any numbers. I would say having spoken to a lot of them,all seem to like the place and most speak of a warm welcome.

The BNP do exist over here, they have two offices in strongly loyalist areas of Belfast. Most of the race attacks have happened in areas close to their offices.

Our television news reporters always attempt to pin down the local community leaders in these loyalist areas for a response to them, always no one is available for comment.

It is a well known fact that most European, Asia and African cultures seem to settle in nationalist areas of the North of Ireland.

I spoke to a friend recently who has just had a Polish family move in next door to him and he said they asked him to mark out the areas on a map he held of areas that his family shouldn't enter.

I thought that was a sad reflection on my community. We are far from perfect over here, and still in the early stages of a new begining for us all, I hope we can all move on together and make the place work.

All parties are currently willing to get our own assembly up and running again, except one party. And it just happens to be the D.U.P.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:25 AM

I do love the posts by "Gillian B". They make fun of such positions by exaggeration. The person at the keyboard has completely different political leanings from "Gillian B". A real world person with Gillian B,'s opinions would not post here.

Enjoy the parody but don't argue seriously with her.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 01:39 PM

Emma B...   "I would be happy to discuss multiculturism here, or any where else, but NOT with a "Guest" who immediately defines it a a "problem".

She then goes on to make her points in a very forceful manner!!

Unfortunately, Miss B seems to inhabit fairyland where all is sunshine and good feelings.

Her naivety in contrasting the amalgamation of the the Scots, Irish, Welsh and English into a homogenous unit ....(ha fucking ha), with the "multiculturalism" we see in the great cities of Scotland and England.

Is Miss B aware that half of Glasgow is owned by Indians and another quarter by Pakistanies.
There is NO intergration of communities, not because the Scots are racist, but because the Indian and Pakistani communities have no wish to integrate!! And have no wish to dilute their culture.
They distrust one another and despise the Scots.
Dont think I am talking through my arse on this one, as I have first hand knowledge of how the Indian landlords operate.
I have a friend who owns a flat in a very good area, overlooking Kelvingrove Park.
She is the only Scots landlord in the whole street, all the other houses being owned by Indians.
For the past five years she has been subjected to a viscious campaign by the man who owns the rest of the flats in her building.
Moving in anti social neighbours to either side and above...leaving leaking pipes in the flat above to damage her property ect...all designed to make her sell at as cheap a price as possible.
This is not an isolated case, but is happening all over Glasgow.

The "problem" in the area where I live is a large number of Eastern European immigrants who take jobs with local firms, then begin to compete for contracts with the people who employ them.
When these contracts are secured, they bring people from their own countries to work for wages which a British family could not sustain themselves on.
The whole system is a very clever piece of manipulation by our government to drive down wages and living standards for our own people.

I am in no way racist, for this argument is all about politics not race, but multiculturalism must work for every section of our society or is completely meaningless...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 02:10 PM

It's the 'but' that trips you up. Did you even READ Emma's post???? Or just start ranting?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 02:25 PM

You are the ranter.
Have you no understanding?....multiculturalism is simply not working in the UK.
If you are attempting to label me as a racist, don't waste your time, as I have protested against facism and racism all my adult life.

"It's the 'but' that trips you up. Did you even READ Emma's post???? Or just start ranting"
What a stupid remark!

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 02:30 PM

You still didn't answer the question.......did you read it or not? Take your 'buts' elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 02:52 PM

I read it.

Where do you live?....Have you any experience of "multiculturalism" in the UK?

"Take your 'buts' elsewhere."....is that a request for me to leave this forum?

Have you any authority to ask me to leave this forum?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 03:59 PM

I can see where you're coming from to some extent Ake, but I find your stated figures totally unbelievable, and would like to know where you got them from?
Glasgow has traditionally always been a city of scruffy rented properties, and I don't suppose for one minute that they've all been 'gentrified', but I just can't believe all of your statements on the figures concerning the percentages of property owned.
If you mean rental properties as opposed to all properties please say so, and please back up your figures.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:20 PM

I have as little authority as anybody.....not saying you need to go, just spew your filth elsewhere. And, yes, I have experience with multiculturalism......

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:38 PM

Glasgow statistics:

In 2001, the housing stock was estimated to be 285,231; a reduction of almost 3,000 since 1999. The tenure position was estimated as follows:

    * Owner occupied - 47%
    * Private rented - 8%
    * Social rented: local authority - 31%
    * Scottish Homes - 1%
    * Housing associations - 13%

The Scottish 2001 census found that 3.44% of Glasgow's population were born outside Europe.

The numbers Ake has mentioned are not meant to be read verbatim. He isn't a numbers man. It is just his way of saying 'too many'.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:50 PM

The percentage of people born outside Eorope means nothing in this context Wolfgang. Most of the Asian origin population of Glasgow were born there, there is a sizeable Asian population in the city.
I always smile to myself when I hear an Asian speaking with a broad Glasgow accent, and there are many of them, that's how integrated most of them are.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:04 PM

So what would you have us do with the East Europeans, Ake? Send them home? Want to tell my dad to pack his bags and go back to Poland on his own or am I included with him. And my kids. And what about the missus. Somewhere back down the line she is of Viking ancestry.

Out of interest - if you care for facts that is - from the 5000 immigrants to Leicester in the last 20 years over 30,000 jobs have been created. What should we do with this section of multi-culturalism that isn't working?

Not having a go at you - just wondering if you have considered all the facts.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:10 PM

Good point, Giok. But:

94.5% of the population of Glasgow describe themselves as 'white'; 0.72% as 'Indian'; 3.04% as 'Pakistani and other South Asian'...(from the same site)

They could of course have ticked the wrong category in the census. Otherwise it would be hard to understand how 0,72 % Indians in Glasgow own half the property in Glasgow when more than three quarters of the houses are owner occupied or social rented from local authority. Property is more than just houses, Ake's examples however were about houses.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:15 PM

The world is now a village and we all live in it together!

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:23 PM

You want FACTS from Ake????? Oh whee....

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:23 PM

"Is Miss B aware that half of Glasgow is owned by Indians and another quarter by Pakistanies.
There is NO intergration of communities, not because the Scots are racist, but because the Indian and Pakistani communities have no wish to integrate!! And have no wish to dilute their culture.
They distrust one another and despise the Scots.
Dont think I am talking through my arse on this one, as I have first hand knowledge of how the Indian landlords operate."

Ake you idiot!!! I'm sorry one of your friends had a bad experience, but does that need to tarnish a whole community. Do you have any Asian friends? I imagine not.

"And have no wish to dilute their culture" - when have they had chance? Imagine moving to Glasgow and seeing the sectarian violence every friday/saturday night (this really does take place) - would YOU want to get out and about amongst it?
I hope not!

As I've previously stated, I've lived in Scotland most my life and found the treatment of the English disgusting. I've been physically threatened because of my accent!

Get a grip man. Before you start criticising other people, take a look at yourself first. All the talk of the Scots being warm-hearted is nonsense. Since I've moved to London I've found people to be much more open-minded and friendly.

Racist fool.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:53 PM

I hope to Christ Gillian has never lived in Scotland, sorry folks I am lost in that neck of the woods. Lived in London and agree great people.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:56 PM

You are correct Wolfgang my figures were exaggerated, but yours are hopelessly out of date. Almost all of the West End has been bought up by Indian landlords for private rental in the last five years.

The same thing is happening South of the river in Shawlands, Pollockshaws ect, the whole area becoming a Pakistani enclave.

Jock knows the area and the people and reckons they are integrated, but I cant agree.
There is more to integration than the adoption of a Glasgow accent,
how many times have you been asked to visit an Indian or Pakistani home. How many close friends do you have in the Indian or Pakistani communities?
I despair that there has not been more real integration in Scotland but this has not been the fault of the Scots who have always accepted immigrants with good grace from before the start of the last century.
Scots are well known for hospitality and friendliness.

And this Scot is now about to take Sorcha's advice and go "spew his filth somewhere else"....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:07 PM

"Scots are well known for hospitality and friendliness."

That old chesnut!
Oh yeah, they're really friendly to people who are the same religion, nationality and skin colour as them... sounds great!!!

"How many close friends do you have in the Indian or Pakistani communities?"

Clearly more than you!

Spew your filth elsewhere. This thread was started with the aim of highlighting the problems of the BNP, not to spout racist views.



"All you fascists are bound to lose"

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:10 PM

Guest DG...If the Scots are racist as you contend, why has the BNP made no progress in Scotland?

It is from large areas of England that the Fascists of the BNP gather support.

You have the typical arrogant attitude of the English on Safari in Scotland. I'm sure my Scots freens on Mudcat will share my pleasure in "seein' the back o' ye"...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:50 PM

Guest DG....For your futher information, the friend I mention married an Asian many years ago in America.
They are still together and I am proud to call them both my friends.
We have discussed this topic on many occasions and with more grace than shown by many of the contributers here.
I hope this sets your mind at rest regarding my "politically correct" credentials.

Sorcha from the good ole U S of A, obviously hasn't a scooby about racial or political matters in the UK. That FACT dosn't seem to stop him/her shooting his/her mouth off though :0)....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 02:51 AM

I see by recent press reports that here in the north of Ireland the BNP are to strengthen their base, by having further further meetings with Protestant extremists groups, they will have very willing listeners.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 03:23 AM

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the BNP and similar groups only spring to life because some parts of society see a need for them. They only continue to exist because conditions are seen not to be getting any better by their supporters. So long as the government has no policy on these issues - other than totally ignoring all the obvious signs of conflict and telling people to love each other (!) the BNP will continue to exist. And middle class left wing ranting is of no use except to the ranters themselves.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 04:10 AM

Ake, I was never on 'Safari' in Scotland, I moved there as a child (6yrs), went to Uni there and left when I was 23.

"You have the typical arrogant attitude of the English on Safari in Scotland. I'm sure my Scots freens on Mudcat will share my pleasure in "seein' the back o' ye"...Ake "

Thats a good one. I still go home every other month. When asked, I always tell I've been brought up in Scotland, and most of my friends are Scottish.

As far as the spread of the BNP is concerned - have you ever seen or heard the flag waving antics of the Rangers football fans? Of course, they're not BNP members, but songs about the billy-boys sound pretty racist to me!

I have to agree with Terry, in that "middle class left wing ranting is of no use except to the ranters themselves." - I think he was trying to have a bit of a dig here, but what he's saying is essentially true.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 04:21 AM

DG, it would seem invidious to quote the misdemeanours of the Rangers fans, and not mention the equally prejudiced and hatefull songs and actions of the Celtic fans as well.
G..

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 04:45 AM

I was merely using that as an example of right-wing views in Scotland. In other words, although the BNP may not have a big following, it doesn't mean that their views aren't being spouted by a group of another name.
Nowhere is perfect, but I just believe this idea that Scotland is somehow 'more friendly' is a bit of a joke nowadays.

At the end of the day, whether they're called the BNP or something else, these groups need to be targeted and campaigned against. They will not help anybody at all. As pointed out previously, most of the candidates are racist thugs with criminal records.

If groups aren't integrating into society, then that needs to be addressed, but the BNP will only further push them away. That will only lead to more misunderstanding (ie Ake's comments re landlords above) and further hatred.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:00 AM

Surely the Rangers Celtic thing is religious, while the BNP one is racial. They start off from a totally different viewpoint.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:01 AM

You still haven't my questions, Ake. What would you do with The "problem" in the area where I live is a large number of Eastern European immigrants who take jobs with local firms,? If there is a problem I guess there is a solution. What is it? Or have the BNP already given us the answer?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:16 AM

"Surely the Rangers Celtic thing is religious, while the BNP one is racial. They start off from a totally different viewpoint."

The BNP 'thing' is also religious. Anyone remember the undercover documentary with the speech from Nick Griffin in the back of a pub about Islam?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:31 AM

Sorry Dave...I did take on board what you said about your family.

I've no easy answers and support for the BNP certainly isn't one.
The point I was making is that the multiculturalism which is being presented to us by the politicians is in many cases a sham.
What we have are quite separate communities.

I've got to rush out to work now but I'll try to answer you later.
How to make a start, would be to look at "faith schools" and the detrimental effect they have on the integration of different sections of our society ...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:37 AM

Ake, it seems we might agree on something.
I also believe that faith schools (any religion) are not great at helping integration. That's not to say that they should be stopped, but it should certainly be something that is looked into.
My belief is that religion should be seperate from politics and education.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:45 AM

Agreed GUEST,DG - Religion should be seperate from Politics and education. Come over here to see it's failures.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 06:13 AM

And this Labour government is encouragig the setting up of faith schools on the UK mainland!!
Talk about not learning from the lessons of history!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 08:01 AM

John please explain how Celtic, two years ago, were awarded the prize for the most sporting club in Europe, and how the Rangers Club were warned and fined in a recent European match, for their conduct, secterian chanting and stoning the Villareyal bus, this dosen`t go down well out of Scotland.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 08:03 AM

I should have added the BNP were also well received by the Rangers fans.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 08:28 AM

Yes Celtic have got their act together better than Rangers, who are trying to ban sectarian chants and songs on the terraces. The history however is of equal stupid violence on both sides. Maybe some day it will go away, but I can never see the day when I will be able to sing the Fields of Athenry or Kevin Barry in any pub in Scotland ☺
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 10:19 AM

Sorry if this appears somewhere else but I seem to have misplaced a post!

Sorry Dave...I did take on board what you said about your family.

I've no easy answers and support for the BNP certainly isn't one.

There a couple of easy answers, Ake. Either let immigrants to this country work here or don't. As the son of a Polish immigrant you may be able to guess my answer. I think that you also have an easy answer. Just no easy way of telling me that you feel my Dad should not be here?

Out of interest again there have been approximately 2 million Poles entering the country since Poland joined the EU. Of those around 10% (200,000) have stayed. Of those 200,000 over 75% (150,000) have been employed in jobs that employers could not fill with British workers (Bar staff, waiters, cleaners, lorry drivers etc.) The remaining 50,000 could pose a threat to you I guess. But I very much doubt it. Well worth bringing to the attention of the BNP though - May take some heat off the Asian immigrants...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 02:36 PM

To catters outside of the UK and Ireland, this may amaze you, it is only in recent years that Glasgow Rangers have allowed Catholics to sign for their Club, so Pele in his prime would have been a no-no for the famous Glasgow team.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 02:48 PM

Come on Ard this was abandoned in 1989, and it is not exactly a current item for debate.
Mind you, f**k knows what I am doing even posting anything about footbal, I loathe the stupid game ☺
I hereby state that I will no longer post anything about football, particularly with regard to the stupid sectarian rivalry between Glasgow Celtic, and Glasgow Rangers!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: autolycus
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 03:40 PM

Theone thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history.

If fascism will never succeed in these isles, and I agree with that, then there's no need to get worked up about them. Just ask them where their great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents came from. Oh wow, I've landed back in that thing that Peace or Rapaire pointed out that even the Celts and Picts were immigrants.


   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 03:38 AM

Thec difference is in time autolycus.

The circumstances surrounding immigration today are completely different from those which prevailed when Celts/Picts/Irish /Italians/Chinese/ect ect arrived on these shores.
Or even when Daves family arrived here.
I am sorry Dave feels that I would like his family removed from this country, that is completely wrong and not at all what I would like to see.

Today the govt is continually exhorting us that we must compete economically with India and China if we wish to be part of the "Global ecomomy".
They know very well that to achieve this situation will mean a reducion in living standards for our people.
The political solution is to encourage immigration of low cost labour which will in turn drive down living standards for all.

There is no propblem regarding the integration of these Eastern Europeans, many of whom I have met locally.

Most have very good English, no religious hangups and are very friendly and eager to learn about our history and culture.

The problem lies in the fact that the "playing field" regarding work does not seem to local people to be level.

I spoke to one nice young man from poland who told me that even on minimum wage and the other benefits he receives, he can live here and send home more money weekly than he can earn in Poland.

The story i posted already about the building trade workers who compete for contracts with their employers...without all the insurances and National insurance contributions that British emplyers have to pay is becomming very common here.

These problems have not been created by the immigrants , but by a government who believe more in short term survival of our rotten system than peace and a proper standard of living for all of our people.
As someone said earlier,it is important for us all to realise what is actually happening "on the ground"...if we dont wake up, there is a danger of many sleepwalking into the arms of the BNP or other Fascist groups....Ake

Today we are exhorted by our govt that we must compete with

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 03:43 AM

Sorry about the badly written message...already late for work!!
Wish Mudcat had an edit button Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 03:58 AM

The point is to make sure that the nazi BNP does not succeed in making progress or taking pwer.We have the practical lesson of history to warn us what is in store should these nazis take power.

They are obsessed by race hatred of jews ,moslems ,brown and black people and every other ethnic group you can think of.

They also hate the political organisations of the working class...ie trade unions,left wing and socialist parties and know that these organisations will have to be smashed on their route to power.
Hitler smashed every independent organisation in the nazi state.

The BNP also hates gay and disabled people.We dare not allow this gang of racist thugs and criminals to grow ....better to take them on now.
In France the anti fascist organisations were far too complacent about the Front Nationale led by Le Pen and they grew in the 90's into a force to be reckoned with.
However, the Anti Nazi League and more recently Unite Against Racism have shown that we can combine to stop the rise of these holocaust deniers and race hate thugs.
Ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 04:16 AM

I spoke to one nice young man from poland who told me that even on minimum wage and the other benefits he receives, he can live here and send home more money weekly than he can earn in Poland.

I find that a little odd in itself, Ake. As you say, he lives here. He has to pay for living here. The cost of living is the same for him as for everyone else. Yet he, on minimum wage, manages to live here AND send more money home than he can earn in Poland? Why is that? Why can the nice young man from England who lives in the same street not live on the same wage and still manage to save enough money to put aside? Do you not find that little incongruity puzzling? I do.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 04:18 AM

Oh, sorry, and you still have not told me what your answer is. It is a very simple question. Should immigrants be allowed to work here or not? A simple yes or no will do.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 04:25 AM

"They know very well that to achieve this situation will mean a reducion in living standards for our people."

Sorry Ake, but I have to disagree with you on this one. While we have to compete in the global economy, we're not even trying to compete with India and China in terms of manufacturing. What Britain can compete in is the tertiary industries (banking, for example). While these sectors grow, there are fewer people to take up the menial tasks in this country (as mentioned above, bar workers, cleaners, traffic wardens etc) - that's the gap that needs to be filled.

I fail to see the correlation between immigrants taking up these jobs and a lowering of living standards. Most of these services are now well regulated and these people are on the whole, here legally and pay income tax and national insurance.

"There is no propblem regarding the integration of these Eastern Europeans, many of whom I have met locally."

Seems to be a bit of a change of heart from your previous post;

"The "problem" in the area where I live is a large number of Eastern European immigrants who take jobs with local firms, then begin to compete for contracts with the people who employ them."

Final point;

"The point I was making is that the multiculturalism which is being presented to us by the politicians is in many cases a sham.
What we have are quite separate communities"

Seperate communities does not necessary mean that there is no integration. If you moved to a new country, it's likely that you'd move to an area where you knew people (look at the British invasion of the Costa del Sol) there's nothing wrong with that. To see integration in action, have a look at London. I live in Ealing, which must me one of the most integrated areas in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 04:35 AM

Also, I wholeheartedly agree with Ifor's message above. Anyone who thinks the BNP will have any solutions to anything is completely deluded.

A while back I read that at a BNP conference they had samosas and onion bhajis as snacks. On one hand enjoying the fruits of a multicultural society and on the other spouting hatred. Idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 05:14 AM

In my days as a trucker all the Iranians I ever met were driving big American Trucks like Macks and Internationals, they seem not to see the conflict!
G..

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 05:48 AM

Dave ...Of course I think immigrants should be allowed to work here.

I thought that was evident from my previous posts.
We do require extra workers , but must ensure that a feeling of resentment against them does not arise in the communities they live in, which will be exploited by groups like the BNP ..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 05:52 AM

It's not th ones that mouth off you worry about, as no doubt you are aware it's the ones that say nothing, but use their vote silently in favour of these crackpots.

Over here we heard Paisley for the last forty years rattle on against everyone outside of his church, so many say he goes over the top, but when it comes to putting the slip in the box, he comes out top of the pile.

Would be interesting to see what the BNP has to offer in regard to health, education and welfare.

Seems as if they have left this thread for the moment. Too many questions being asked of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 06:01 AM

Guest DG....Where the fuck did I ever say that the BNP were a solution to anything!!

As a member of the Communist Party in the 60's and 70's I fought through words and physically, for the people you can only pontificate about.
Your remarks yesterday describing me as a "Filth spewing racist idiot" are typical of wet behind the ears would be intellectuals.

Maybe when you grow up you may discover the difference between a political argument and a racial agenda.

Ealing!!......Well you're right at the cutting edge there mate!

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 06:07 AM

Thanks, Ake - All I wanted to know.

Leaves me a little puzzled as to why you had to make the point about East European immigrants but at least now we know that your intentions were to "ensure that a feeling of resentment against them does not arise in the communities they live in".

I am not whether saying "The "problem" in the area where I live is a large number of Eastern European immigrants who take jobs with local firms, then begin to compete for contracts with the people who employ them. When these contracts are secured, they bring people from their own countries to work for wages which a British family could not sustain themselves on." does actualy ensure that this feeling of resentment does not arise.

I guess what you meant was because you are quite happy for this to happen everyone else should be? Does the same apply to your points about most of Glasgow being owned by Pakistanis and Indians who will not invite white people to their houses?

Did I just misunderstood your post?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 06:12 AM

Whoops - I am not sure whether etc.

Damn that grandma checker...

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 06:20 AM

Dave I think you have misunderstood much of my post..
Probably my fault for being a " SEMI- LITERATE, filth spewing, racist idiot".   :0)    All the best ..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 07:24 AM

Ake, I'm sorry to have annoyed you with that post, but after reading the following comments,I had the impression that you were a little bir right of centre. They seem fairly typical of the racism I have encountered;

"the Indian and Pakistani communities have no wish to integrate!! And have no wish to dilute their culture."

"multiculturalism is simply not working in the UK"

I would much prefer to be a "wet behind the ears would be intellectual" than someone who makes comments like this about ENTIRE groups of people;

"They distrust one another and despise the Scots"


"Maybe when you grow up" - Mate, I'm old enough to have my own opinions. I'm sorry your heyday was in the 60's, and it must be difficult to keep up. This comment really does say a lot about the chip on your shoulder.

I never said Ealing was the cutting edge, I was merely giving an example of an integrated, multicultural society that you have claimed 'isn't working'.

I'm back up in Scotland on Friday. Should be great. Next time I'm in Glasgow (July) we should meet up for a pint.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 08:48 AM

Sorry, Ake - But I got the same impression as DG (NOT DtG - we are seperate people!) as well. Apologies to you for the misunderstanding but the words you chose rang remarkably like racist dogma. Glad to see that it was simply a poor choice of words rather than a poor choice of philosophy :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 12:44 PM

Well thanks for the invitation DG.

Unfortunately I have a previous engagement, which on paper looks slightly more attractive.

It involves the self-removal of my big Scots "baws" with a blunt instrument and toasting them over a slow fire...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 04:35 PM

Giok, c`mon 1989 isn`t the distant past, after all 1690 is fresh in the memory of the Rangers support.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John J
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 07:25 PM

I've just got home from a very informative and highly inspirational anti-BNP concert by Billy Bragg.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 01:07 PM

Would any of you self rightouse arseholes let your daughter marry a mugger?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Big Phil
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 02:14 PM

Not surprising, as Bragg is allegedlly a lover of our Tony and his cohorts, gone right off him now i'm afraid, Who can now back Blair after all this scandal his party is enmeshed in. No wonder some folk are turning to the BNP, Blair is the best recruiting sergeant they will ever have.........

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 04:55 PM

I think theres a lot of truth in what you say Big Phil.

What is it that makes nice normal people turn to groups like the BNP?
Mainly disillusion with the political process.
Blair has squeezed the heart out of Labour.
No one believes what they say, they have ditched most of their socialist principles, no one takes responsibility for any mistakes, in short they treat the electorate like fools.
Well it looks like these local elections are going to be an almighty shock for Mr Blair and his followers.
I'll be sorry to see any gains for the BNP but I'm sure there will be some.
But more power devolved to smaller groupings like the Greens, Socialists and Independents will be a good sign for the future.

I would also like to see George Galloway's Respect Party gain strength....Just to spite "Warmonger Blair"....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 04:58 PM

"No wonder some folk are turning to the BNP, Blair is the best recruiting sergeant they will ever have........."

"the self-removal of my big Scots "baws" with a blunt instrument"

"Would any of you self rightouse arseholes let your daughter marry a mugger?"

Clearly some people are beyond reasoning.

No answers to any of the very valid points made by people above regarding immigration, racism and the need for a campaign against the BNP.

At the end of the day I hope the BNP don't make the inroads on May 4th that it has been reported they might.

In future, I'm sticking to the music section.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 03:53 AM

billy bragg is a joke. he lives in a 'hideously white' area of upper class dorset. No working class multi-cultural society for our Billy.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 04:01 AM

Would be interesting to see what the BNP has to offer in regard to health, education and welfare.

Seems as if they have left this thread for the moment. Too many questions being asked of them.

Fucking hell. Yes why dont you get Labour supporters on here to explain there policies. It's useless asking BNP members, or any party their policies, you simply go to their manifesto.

Go have a look there if you want to know. im guessing the leadership of the parties have busier things to do than come on mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 09:31 AM

The BNP may well have policies that protect bees and sand dunes...the fact of the matter is they are race hate obsessives.

It is by their race hate policies that they have to be judged.These are the would be aryan supermen who deny that the holocaust that cost 6 million lives in WW2 took place .
These are the people who have attempted to terrorise a 90 year survivor of the holocaust with bricks through his window and death threats because he persists in warning us about the threat posed by the BNP and other far right bullies in this country.

This is the party that was founded by that well known British nazi John Tyndall with a string of convictions for race hare crimes and violence as long as your arm. This is the party whose activists in the north of England were caught on camera boasting of how they enjoyed stuffing dog mess through the doors of asian shopkeepers.This is the party whose member David Copeland exploded two nail bombs in Soho and Brixton because he hated black people and gays.This racist killed three and maimed hundreds.

The BNP is stuffed full of racist thugs,violent criminals and social misfits......they might well be all in favour of protecting the environment but it is a party of nazis and racist creeps.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 11:44 AM

These are the people who have attempted to terrorise a 90 year survivor of the holocaust with bricks through his window and death threats because he persists in warning us about the threat posed by the BNP and other far right bullies in this country.

Care to back that one up friend? That is useful stuff

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 12:23 PM

The holocaust survivor who has received threats from racist thugs and who has had his house attacked for speaking out against the rise of the far right and the BNP in this country is Leon Greenman.He is now 96 years of age and not 90 as I previously wrote.

Leon ,a British citizen was arrested along with his wife and infant son in Holland in 1942.His wife and infant son were murdered by the nazis in Auschwitz -Birkenau but Leon survived the death camps by a miracle.

He has spent many years talking about his terrible experiences and warning about the rise of the racists and nazis.

In 1994 he led the huge anti BNP march at Welling and has received death threats and his house has been attacked. Only a few years ago money had to be raised by anti racists to install security systems to protect his house after it was attacked by some of these aryan supermen of the right.

Leon is an inspiration to everyone opposed to the racists and nazis.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 04 May 06 - 04:42 PM

Results due later tonight

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 06:54 PM

"The BNP said it would be fielding 357 candidates in a bid to increase its current tally of 20 out of Britain's 22,000 council seats."

A force to be worried about for sure . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:15 PM

Results due later tonight then.

If the kit shows two blue bars, may I be the first to congratulate you.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 05 May 06 - 04:58 PM

Some recent posters seem somewhat quieter today. Gosh I imagine the old local results thing has something to do with it !

I bet some chaps are Splicing the Mainbrace somewhere tonight, I am heading to a bash in Epping, must dash !

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 06 - 05:09 PM

Geeze, you must have .001% of the council seats. Friggin' yeah for you and your racist party.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 May 06 - 06:09 PM

It might be sensible to ask why the BNP did so well in Barking, and Respect in Tower Hamlets (despite alleged widespread personation).

The likely answer seems to be a sizeable chunk of voters feeling that the mainstream parties fail to represent them. That way lies failure of the democratic process.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 06 - 06:10 PM

The problem with protest votes is that occasionally some real lunatics get into power.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Respect in Tower Hamlets
Date: 05 May 06 - 06:49 PM

Respect campaigners in Tower Hamlets have reported widespread voter imitation and misuse of postal ballot papers...this has been reported on the Respect website and to the authorities.
Despite this the party has gained 12 seats which is one more than the nazi BNP gained in Dagenham.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:26 PM

Champers really flowing tonight in several areas of London after election. They guys really found it funny and so pathetic to hear those old lines about personation and imitation, oh ha ha, Really didn't happen at all.

At the party I was at tonight, I delivered an email of congrats from Peter Robinson and Jeffery Donaldson of the D.U.P. splendid respectful response to a victory, so proud of them for doing that.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:29 PM

No doubt you are. But, the BNP is a fringe party made up of racists and wannabee Nazis. They'll never be more than that. Enjoy your bubbly, dear.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:42 PM

Loosen up old boy, no need really for such high drama.         


From Little acorns to Mighty Oaks

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:58 PM

. . . grow lots of nuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 May 06 - 10:02 PM

100

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 May 06 - 10:03 PM

Oops, too late

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:51 AM

Peace - your dismissive comments and refusal to acknowledge the serious issues behind the BNP's success sound exactly the same as the attitude the Government takes. Which is precisely why the BNP are doing so well.

I'm far from being a supporter but I see this as blindingly obvious. Nobody ever believes the BNP will be a political force, but surely the Government are not so stupid as to fail to recognise the public voice. Silly me, of course they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 01:13 AM

Then your solution is obvious: Wake up your government. And maybe this election is what the needed.

I do not dismiss the BNP. I simply say they are racist, Nazi scum.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 01:16 AM

PS,

The main loser of seat was Labour. Not other parties. Address your comments to the Labour Party.

I take this kind of thing quite seriously; but, I have trouble taking people like 'Gillian' seriously. Sounds too much like the duchess at tea for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 01:20 AM

An interesting link that gives a perspective:

http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=681212006

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 06 May 06 - 04:41 AM

I read that article in above link, simply Poppy Cock. The chap who wrote it is so filled with dislike of the English nation, I am surprised you don't see this, it's actually quite apparent. If you want to read something of Substance, trot over to this site. www.dup.org.uk

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 06 May 06 - 08:21 AM

Gillian
Perhaps you can explain why your racist BNP pals get so much pleasure in boasting about how they like to shove dogmess through the letterboxes of asian shopkeepers?
This was revealed in a secret filming of a BNP meeting by the BBC last year. What a horrible bunch of misfits!
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 06 May 06 - 09:38 AM

Oh for pity's sake ifor, that was that chap Gwynne who did that silly programme,he has since been discredited many times, almost sure he confessed the whole thing was nothing more than a set up by a few meddling radical student types.

Must say it is rather funny to think someone such as yourself actually believed it, oh come on. I can only imagine you are teasing me here.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 May 06 - 11:48 AM

Where is anything about English folk music song or dance on the DUP site?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 06 May 06 - 11:52 AM

Gillian, you're a fucking idiot.

People have tried to reason with you long enough, just sod off.

Anyone who refuses to believe the BNP are not racist thugs, must themselves be as bad.

You have no valid answers when everyone points out the holes in your arguments, in was interesting to see that you didn't comment here for a few weeks when people began questioning you. It's people like you that give this country a bad name.

Go away.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:31 PM

DG, Do you not realise that Gillian is echoing the thoughts of a large percentage of Ian Paisley`s DUP Party, they are racist and always have been.
Whenever any of our by now large immigrant population are mentioned in conversation to my Protestant friends they are immediately castigated with all of the usual quotes such as " coming over here to take our jobs", and these are jobs the average north of Ireland Prod wouldn`t do or in other cases don`t have the qualifactions to apply for, such as, in the field of medicine, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:45 PM

I am not a member of the B.N.P. I am however a member of the D.U.P.
And I jolly well think that any political party and it's members are allowed to speak, not be bullied down by people of an alternative political viewpoint.
I am bewildered and utterly ashamed of some of the unpatriotic comments made here by British members, what must other members throughout the world think of our nation.

Disgusting Behaviour, pretty bad show I'd say.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:51 PM

"I am bewildered and utterly ashamed of some of the unpatriotic comments made here by British members, what must other members throughout the world think of our nation."

I'd prefer not to be considered British if you're a good example of a Brit. What is 'British' anyway - give me an idea - what should a 'British' person look like... what colour hair? what accent? what religion? what political leanings?

I think my family comes from Norway, hundreds and hundreds of years ago... I'm proud to be British, but I love the fact that it's a multicultural place.

As I said previously Gillian, please either answer the valid points raised by myself and others previously in this thread or just sod off.

Luckily, there were no BNP candidates in my council election. I'm very, very happy about that.

Yes, I'll do all I can to bully the BNP out.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Am I in the right world here?
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:53 PM

I am however a member of the D.U.P. And I jolly well think that any political party and it's members are allowed to speak, not be bullied down by people of an alternative political viewpoint.

The DUP? Never bullying ANY other party? Words fail me.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Terry K
Date: 06 May 06 - 03:09 PM

"I'm proud to be British, but I love the fact that it's a multicultural place".

Maybe you are, but so what? The whole point is that many people on the ground are not necessarily in agreement with you, hence are voting for the BNP. Wake up, for Christ's sake or you will be part of the reason for the BNP's success.

And Peace says, "Address your comments to the Labour Party".

Er, 'scuse me, but that's exactly what the BNP voters did - with arguably resounding success. And who was listening? - only those who can only respond with jibes and taunts. What the fuck good do you imagine that does?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 03:15 PM

"What the fuck good do you imagine that does?"

Give people a good party to vote for and they won't vote for scum. Get it, Terry? That wht the fuck good it will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 06 May 06 - 09:24 PM

"you will be part of the reason for the BNP's success."

Nope.

"that's exactly what the BNP voters did"

Nope.

Even if you are pissed off with the Labour party, voting for the fascist, right wing scum BNP is no alternative. By voting for them, you are voting for people who put shit through letter boxes.

Get a grip. They are no alternative. They are Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 06 May 06 - 09:30 PM

Terry K, just looking over your previous posts, it's clear you're a bit of a racist. Also it's clear you live in London.

I'm in London too - Let's meet up, I'd love to discuss some of your views face to face.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Terry K
Date: 07 May 06 - 02:22 AM

er - 'scuse me?

You can continue to completely miss the point if you wish, but random taunts of "racist" are not the answer. Just why do you think these BNP twats are becoming more and more successful? Ever thought about it? They thrive on "opposition" such as yours, it spurs them on to pursue their misguided cause. But beneath it all, it is as clear as day that there is a voting public who may or may not be racist, but who have no other avenue through which to make their statement (not me, I make my protest by refusing to vote for any of the wankers).

And GUEST,DG - you have tried this "let's meet up" tactic previously with somebody else who couldn't get you to understand even the simplest point. It was pathetic then, as it is now. You sound very young (perhaps juvenile is a better word), do try to grow up.

And Peace - "Give people a good party to vote for and they won't vote for scum". Just how do you think that's going to happen? Where do we get a good party from? Don't you think we would love to have a good party to vote for? (incidentally, I'm always up for a good party) - unfortunately we have a stupid electorate who continue to vote for the knobheads that we've got at present, or the knobheads who are trying equally hard to remove them.

The solution? - there isn't one, just please don't assume your simplistic ranting helps in any way.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 07 May 06 - 05:36 AM

"I make my protest by refusing to vote for any of the wankers"

Yeah nice one, it's not me that are helping the BNP it's people like you who don't even vote. Voting for ANYONE else is better than voting for a bunch of racist thugs.

"The solution? - there isn't one"

Have you read any history books? So what should we do? nothing?

Of course there is a solution, and that solution is to highlight how racist these people are and do what we can to put a stop to it. Education is the key. People need to realise that by voting for the BNP as a protest will not help them, the system or the country.

Sorry for sounding juvenile, but the BNP piss me off like nothing else and anyone who even claims that they are any alternative is often on the other end of some of my ranting.

I find it very difficult to believe that anyone would see them as a viable, realistic alternative looking at their track record and candidates criminal records.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 06 - 01:49 PM

Did they have any candidates in Tower Hamlets?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 06 - 02:23 PM

"The solution? - there isn't one, just please don't assume your simplistic ranting helps in any way."

Nor do your erudite ones, Terry. It seems you have given up. Too bad, because that sort of thinking (the notion that YOU are powerless to effect change in the political parties of the UK) is defeatist. Why not just hand the scum the keys?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Terry K
Date: 08 May 06 - 02:43 AM

What do I see as the solution? That the Goverment take on board the fact that some people (and please don't make the simplistic assumption that I am one of them) are pissed off with what is going on in the country. The Government are the only ones who can change anything or influence anything, but they refuse to accept that there is a perceived problem out there. They stick their heads close to the sand and cry "racist" - rather like you guys are doing.

You say "the notion that YOU are powerless to effect change in the political parties of the UK) is defeatist" - maybe so, but what do you want me to do, become a political activist? - no thanks, in the face of mass stupidity as is repeatedly shown by the electorate and the political parties, I have better things to do with my life.

But as an outside observer it is as clear as day to me that there is some reason why this latest phenomenon is happening. Isn't it bleeding obvious that there must be some reason why the BNP are doing so well? The only way forward is if someone takes a cold, detached look at cause and effect, and try to do something about the causes.

It's a bit like bringing up children - if you don't like the way they are responding to conditioning and environment, you have to change something. But you first have to realise that the way they behave is because they see something as being out of kilter, not just shout at them and lash out.

That's me done - if you can't see what to me is totally obvious than my further input to this thread is of no avail. Defeatist again, hah!

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 May 06 - 04:11 AM

I`ll say one thing for Gillian she can certainly stir the pot.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Working class anti fascist
Date: 09 May 06 - 12:32 AM

There are some anti-fascist groups who have been trying to educate people about the BNP and what they are really like, the problem is as I have seen, that these groups are often made up of hippies/'oddballs' etc - I can guess what people would call them. It's a shame there are not more ordinary people campaigning against the BNP - Especially white working class people...as they are the ones allegedly voting BNP now because New Labour ain't listening to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 May 06 - 04:31 AM

The problem is now that the mainstream parties are using the BNP pretty much as the BNP use immigrants - Someone to hate! Terry has the gist of it better than most I have seen.

I am as anti-facist as the next sensible person, just as I am anti any extemist, but just ranting at them does not help. Thay are not the alternative to New Labour as most people seem to think though. There are other alternatives before people consider the far right (or left for that matter).

What about Lib-dem? Green? Monster raving loony? How come people seem to think that the BNP is more of a viable alternative than those? As Terry said, address the root cause and people will stop voting for them. Whether you will stop Gillian and her friends in Northern Ireland is a different matter. We can but hope.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 09 May 06 - 04:52 AM

Lets look at life on a lighter note !





Being British

Being British is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a
Belgian beer, then travelling home and grabbing an Indian curry or a
Turkish kebab on the way, to sit on Swedish furniture and watch
American shows on a Japanese TV.
And the most British thing of all? Suspicion of anything foreign!!!

Oh and!!!!!

Only in Britain... can a pizza get to your house faster than an ambulance.

Only in Britain... do supermarkets make sick people walk all the way to the back of the shop to get their prescriptions while healthy people can buy cigarettes at the front.

Only in Britain.. do people order double cheeseburgers, large fries, and a DIET coke.

Only in Britain... do banks leave both doors open and chain the pens to
the counters.



Only in Britain... do we leave cars worth thousands of pounds on the drive and lock our junk and cheap lawn mower in the garage.

Only in Britain... do we use answering machines to screen calls and then have call waiting so we won't miss a call from someone we didn't want to talk to in the first place.

Only in Britain... are there disabled parking places in front of a
skating rink.

NOT TO MENTION...

3 Brits die each year testing if a 9v battery works on their tongue.

142 Brits were injured in 1999 by not removing all pins from new shirts.

58 Brits are injured each year by using sharp knives instead of screwdrivers.

31 Brits have died since 1996 by watering their Christmas tree while the fairy lights were plugged in.

19 Brits have died in the last 3 years believing that Christmas decorations were chocolate.

British Hospitals reported 4 broken arms last year after cracker pulling accidents.

101 people since 1999 have had broken parts of plastic toys pulled out of the soles of their feet.

18 Brits had serious burns in 2000 trying on a new jumper with a lit cigarette in their mouth.

A massive 543 Brits (All Welsh) were admitted to A&E in the last two years after opening bottles of beer with their teeth.

5 Brits were injured last year in accidents involving out of Control Scalextric cars.


and finally.........

In 2005 eight Brits (All Scottish) cracked their skull whilst throwing up into the toilet.

Makes you proud to be British or Irish !

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 09 May 06 - 05:13 AM

Why is the alternative the BNP and not the Greens? Obvious innit? People WANT to get nasty with someone, and the BNP gives them "permission" to do that. In the same way that the Serbs preferred to take the whole country to hell rather than feel disempowered (even though they would have been much better off), the ordinary "soft" BNP supporter would rather trash Britain than redirect or let go of their anger.

Over the last 25 years, following Thatcher's deliberate North Sea oil- fuelled destruction of the industrial economy, stable industries that (despite their faults) built stability, community and a sense of solidarity have been replaced by fragmented, non- continuous, undeveloping, isolating jobs. No wonder people are angry. But the BNP feed them a simple line- it's all the others, the immigrants, the Blacks, Asians, Eastern Europeans. Combine this with the underhand support they get from the right- wing media, it makes getting the more complex message across like trying to get kids to eat muesli instead of greaseburgers.

People are right to be angry. It's the target that's wrong. But the Greens are far too honest to make up easy hate- figures to exploit the desire to break something.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 May 06 - 06:05 AM

People want to get nasty with someone? Never! Wouldn't happen here on the Mudcat...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 May 06 - 07:23 AM

It seems that housing is the main issue the has led to white working class turning to BNP.
None of the other parties has addressed the issue.
Social housing has traditionally been awarded to those locals who would have to wait their turn.
Immigrant families are treated as emergencies, and for many years now have been given priority.
As there is a shortage, the indigenous people get passed over.
Resentment is inevitable. The change has been sudden and dramatic. Traditional white working class areas are suddenly transformed.
They were never consulted, and if they query the situation they are called racist.
If only the respectable parties had been prepared to recognise that there are legitimate grievances arising from unprecedented mass immigration, then this frightening trend could have been prevented.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Le Citron Vert
Date: 09 May 06 - 07:32 AM

"the indigenous people get passed over"

I saw an interview with Nick Griffin on the night of the election where he ised the term"indigenous people".

I don't believe that this term applies in the UK at all. Here is the definition, make your own minds up;

Main Entry: in·dig·e·nous
Pronunciation: in-'dij-&-n&s
Function: adjective
1 : having originated in and being produced, growing, or living naturally in a particular region or environment

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 May 06 - 07:41 AM

I used the term to mean that group whose families have comprised the population for geneations.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Le Citron Vert
Date: 09 May 06 - 08:04 AM

My question then is, how many generations?

3? 12? 25?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 May 06 - 08:11 AM

I agree that a term to indicate "that group whose families have comprised the population for generations" can be useful and indiginous will do as well as any.   The only problem is - how many generations and what counts. In my own case, my mother came from Co Limerick when it was still part of the UK. You may think that is obviously British (or indeed obviously not.) My fathers' side had all lived in England for at least 5 generations, but before that they didn't as far as I have been able to trace. I reckon you will find most British people (defined here as 'allowed to hold a full British passport' *grin*) have an ancestry that is a complex or even more so.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 May 06 - 08:32 AM

I do not think that this is a useful digression, but the population of London, and of England, has changed little in a thousand years.
There have been immigration events but tiny in scale compared to the huge demographic change that has just happened.
The most significant would be the Irish who came in the 19th and 20th Cents.
Jewish immigration is well known but in five hundred years would only amount to the kind of numbers now entering every year.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Le Citron Vert
Date: 09 May 06 - 08:43 AM

From Wikipedia

"The Huguenots, French Protestants facing a new wave of persecution, began arriving in England in numbers around 1670. King Charles II offered them sanctuary, and in all some 40–50,000 arrived. Many settled in the Spitalfields area of London, and, being former silk-weavers, brought new energy to this industry in the area and raised silk to an important fashion item in Britain. It has been estimated that as many as a quarter of London's population today have a Huguenot ancestor."

Changed little over a thousand years?
If you like, I can use more examples to prove that incorrect.

The point I am making, which is no digression, is this skewed idea of nationhood. Anyone who holds a British passport should be considered British (as they are legally). Do you realise how ridiculous the idea of an 'indigenous' people in the UK is?

What date would you give as a 'cut-off' point when people stopped being indigenous?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 May 06 - 08:57 AM

I was aware of the Huguenots thank you.
Their 50 000 addition to the whole of the population of England over 300 years ago does not constitute a significant change, and is long gone from any living memory (though their genes will be integrated into the population of London and all of England)

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 May 06 - 09:01 AM

But Keith, I still want to know if I am British!

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Le Citron Vert
Date: 09 May 06 - 09:06 AM

Okay, so people who came here in "living memory" shouldn't be considered British?

If that is the case, my next question is, whose living memory?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 May 06 - 09:07 AM

I am not sure about myself!

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 06 - 09:24 AM

Keith's assertion (and the BNP's) that asylum seekers, immigrants, incomers and parasites are given priority over decent "indigenous" folks is a myth. In Keith's case I assume it's simply the kind of lazy assumption peddled by the redtops, in the BNP's case it most certainly is not.

The fact is that housing policy has been in a mess- for everyone- for many years. "Garden city" style redevelopments like (ones I know of around Manchester) Little Hulton, Wythenshawe and Hattersley worked to a great extent while people's needs were simple and full employment prevailed, but when expectations rose, the communalistic restrictions irritated people, and there was a drift away from them. In this period, they were filled by "social" applicants, sometimes people whose behavioural deficiencies had led to employment problems, even in the boom era. It only takes a few of these to trigger an avalanche, which duly happened, and many parts of the new estates were unpleasant places long before incomers had had any effect- they lived in the old inner cities largely.

The sell- off of the remaining tolerable areas in the 1980s left what was remaining as sink estates, all too often used as dumping grounds for problem cases like single mothers and rent defaulters. Schools and shops deteriorated, transport links withered, the faberic was run down.

So asylum seekers etc. get put into such places, not because they are queue jumping, but because they have no choice. The answer is a redesign of housing policy, and "New" Labour could have done this at any time in the last 9 years, but their decision to continue Tory policies prevented this.

Which is why people SHOULD be angry. Send them home, that's what I say, but I mean the failed, visionless politicians we've had eroding society for the last 25 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Le Citron Vert
Date: 09 May 06 - 09:27 AM

Great post Guest.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 May 06 - 09:51 AM

I do not read the Red Tops, but I did hear a report on R4 this morning with several comments from residents of Barking and followed by an interview with the new housing minister.
I agree with your assessment of the background to the current housing crisis.
It is not my assertion, but the perception of the residents that is important.
Of course a family just arrived must be given somewhere to live, and naturally those who have been waiting to be housed and who are passed over will resent it.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 May 06 - 11:07 AM

Spot on about the housing, Guest. My nephew has just turned down 2 properties in Little Hulton because it is a 'rough' area surrounded by drug dealers and immigrants. His dad (my brother-in-law) is the first to complain that there are only houses available to immigrants. No good trying to point out the contradictions in his views either. He is the only unemployed person I know who supported Margaret Thatcher. The mind boggles...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Norman Stronge
Date: 09 May 06 - 12:44 PM

No wish to get involved in the issues aired above. Would like to point out that there are two families in Ulster by the name Brookbourgh, one in Fermanagh the other Antrim. Derived from the name brookeborough. Said to have come about after a family squabble in the early 1920's in which a son made the change to his birthname. Useless piece of information I suppose !

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 06 - 10:57 AM

BNP more than doubled their councillors. Sadly for us here at mudcat, faces are very red. Whilst cyber attacks continue, the BNP it seems continues to win and win and win and win and win and win and win.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 06 - 10:59 AM

hahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahaha.

BNP win more than double. Poor peace, poor goik, poor sods!

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 06 - 11:09 AM

A cause for concern, certainly, but don't get carried away. Out of 4418 seats they only fielded about 350 candidates and won about 1 in 9 of those. "win and win and win and win and win and win and win" is overstating things just a tad.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 06 - 11:16 AM

So it now has 46 seats out of 22,000 instead of 20 out of 22,000. And from the 350 candidates fielded 46 won. Lets look at the win and win and win and win and win and win and win in terms of percentages shall we - Seeing as it has already been said that they more than doubled their vote. Of the 350 candidates fielded just over 13% won. Making the total power base in the UK aroung 0.21% of the seats.

Pretty major I would say. I had better get packing for my trip back to Poland...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 06 - 11:20 AM

Sorry to cause any confusion - I am guessing DMcG's quote of 4418 seats is the seats renewed this time round - My quote of 22,000 is the total number of seats in local government in the UK as stated by the BBC. If I remember rightly don't all the seats rotate every 5 years or so? Making 4.4k every year times 5 = 22K?

Cheers

DtG
Not DMcG - He is my Scottish cousin...:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 06 - 11:26 AM

Scottish? Well, the family roots are are Irish, but we suspect the name (McGlade) is ultimately a corruption of McLeod, so maybe.

Yes, it was the seats contested this time round I was referring to.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Le Citron Vert
Date: 10 May 06 - 12:04 PM

Dave the gnome, I was going to post the same thing about the percentage. Nice work.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 06 - 12:15 PM

You could of course express the power in terms of the councils the BNP control - 0%

However, as I said it is still a cause for concern. If people see the BNP as a normal party rather than as some sort of pariah their votes could increase substantially. There is a lot of resentment out there that neither Labour nor Conservative are concerned with the ordinary voter. That's dangerous. The protest vote can and does end up anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 06 - 01:05 PM

Sorry, D:-( I can never remember the difference between Macs and Mcs. I know the difference between Macs and Pcs though. Macs keep out the rain and Pcs are for accessing Mudcat. Something like that.

Is a rule of thumb that Mac is Scottish and Mc is Irish?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 May 06 - 01:58 PM

Gentle please cut of their air supply. Thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:24 PM

Terry K......Well said brother!!

As you know very well......Reason is the deadly enemy of Racism and Fascism.
Sloganising and childish name calling only serve to obscure the roots of any problem.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:43 PM

A British National Party councillor appears to be involved in making a gay porn film. Now these creeps are out banging the drum against gays and are calling for the act to be outlawed!

The Evening Standard claims to have a copy of a film produced and directed by Richard Barnbrook described as "Marxist gay cinema from conceptual artist Barnbrook."

He is the London co-ordinator of the BNP, which has promised to remove homosexuality from society, deeming it 'wrong and unhealthy for any community."

The film, HMS Discovery, A Love Story, contains scenes of men undressing and touching each other, coupled with nudity and sexual activits.

I know I advised to ignore these guys, but surely Gillian has something to add ????????????????????????????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 06 - 03:20 PM

That's a well known BNP undercurrent over in UK divis. They particularly like to photograph young boys in nazi uniform. Even their beloved leader Nick was linked in the past. Today's revelation I think will open the floodgates for a few more. Trouble with organizations like that is if they upset the members they have many skeletons to rattle.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,The Observor
Date: 11 May 06 - 03:55 PM

Another young 15 year old schoolboy beaten to death in Ian Paisleys Ballymena heartland, not a word from all of those people on this site who had numerous letters when Robert McCartney was killed, Ballymena is real red-neck land associated with our BNP friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:28 PM

I fully agree The Observor. I was involved in that thread you mention and because I am a republican I took a hammering for it by some members. What happened in Ballymena has been happening there for 40 years, if not more. Looks like some are being charged for it tomorrow according to local news. BNP have a strong foothold in Ballymena and several D.U.P. members shared platforms with them. Once went to a party in Ballymena when I was a student, found out I was a cathoilc by birth, I don't practice a faith by the way. I was one of the lucky ones, a girl warned me plans were underway to deal with me in the house ! Sobered up and legged it !

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 May 06 - 03:35 AM

I can not remember ever reading a post by a Mudcat member supporting or justifying either the BNP or Loyalist paramilitaries or sectarian violence.
Individual acts of violence in NI do not usually generate posts on this forum.
The McCartney murder itself did not.
The thread you refer to was a debate between those who were appalled that officials from a respectable democratic party were involved in destroying eveicence and intimidating witnesses and the bereaved, and those who were not.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:07 AM

I live a few miles from a BNP shrine. The place where the lead singer of Skrewdriver used to live. Occasionally they have camps round here, sort of rallies I guess.

What I would say is, if you're thinking of campaigning on the streets as the opening post suggests - go carefully, they're scary looking fuckers.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:25 AM

I think what I was trying to say in my last post was basically that the message of the far right with its simplistic tales of racial purity is a road the world has been down once, and we sure as hell don't want to go down again.

I was not advocating cowardice. But the way forward is surely pride in our considerable achievements as a multi racial society, and education of our young folk.

Street Fighting Man is a good theme for a rock song, but I'd hate to think the fate of our nation depended on anybody who wanted to be regarded as such.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:08 AM

With no desire to see this thread heading yet again towards an Irish issue. Please note remarks regarding a political party being involved in any form of skulldugery stand without substance or factual proof in any court of law. Nor has political sanctions been imposed by the government on any party because of it. Which makes this remark amount to nothing more than slander or malicious gossip created by those with an ulterior motive or agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:02 AM

The accusation came from most of the population of the (Nationalist)Shortstrand as I recall.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:42 AM

"I can not remember ever reading a post by a Mudcat member supporting or justifying either the BNP or Loyalist paramilitaries or sectarian violence."

Forgotten our lovable Dave Hannam already?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:07 AM

Hannam is not a member.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:37 AM

Thank you Keith, you use the word accusation in your last post.

Whereas in your previous post you used the sentence,
officials from a respectable democratic party were involved.

I doubt any court in the land would convict anyone on your opinions or of those living in the Strand.

So really all you are stating is an accusation based on what you and some residents, not all residents of the Strand think. No proof, conviction or credible merit. Interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:46 AM

Hannam was a member for quite a while. Don't youy remember?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:49 AM

Sadly he was before my time Paul. Sounds like I would of enjoyed him !

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:52 AM

I remember Hannam, Keith remembers what he wants to remember.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:14 AM

I checked that he was not a member, but I did not realise that he had been one.
Harsh judgement Ard Mhacha.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:22 AM

The events took place in The Shortstrand.
Dozens of residents were present.
Mass hallucination?
There were very large anti Sinn fein and IRA street demonstrations.
Such a thing in a Nationalist area never happened before or since.
They could demonstrate all together, but you can only testify one at a time.
Hard when The Boys know where you live.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 May 06 - 10:13 AM

So lets get it straight Keith you were wrong regarding Hannam. Right now that's been established along with the fact you stated that officials from a respectable democratic party were involved in destroying eveicence. Again your facts without evidence, so fair to say you've been proved wrong again.

Regarding the two street protests down in the Strand. A lot of this was down to this dislike of certain individuals and one family who lived in the area. I know I am on the ground.

I could give you many examples Keith of murders which you were not so quick of the mark with the usual verbal condemnation. Speak straight if you are going to speak. These attacking posts of yours are always aimed at the Provisional Irish Republican Army.

So you don't like the Provo's, think I can live with that. Just don't try to cloak your dislike of them and use any opportunity such as this domestic violent innocent in which a man lost his life to spew your anti Republican propaganda.

As I said, your views on the movement are of little importance.

Now if you have anything to add please get back on the rails and aim your inner dislikes at the BNP. That's if you do dislike them ?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 May 06 - 11:42 AM

I admit I did not know that hannam had been a member in the distant past.
Sorry.
Those street demonstrators were clear about what they were protesting against, and the always rock solid SinnFein vote in that area collapsed after those events, so not just a few individuals and one family.

For myself, I despise all the paramilitaries.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,IFOR
Date: 12 May 06 - 11:45 AM

At the core of the BNP is anti semitism-the hatred of Jewish people.Scratch any of the active members of the BNP and you will find a barroom bigot seeting with hatred for Jews ,blacks and moslem people.
But to get at them they also have to attack trade unionists,socialists and many others who are opposed to their nazi policies.
This is the collection of misfits and thugs who laugh and taunt the survivors of the holocaust..who claim it never happened....who have been photographed and taped giving the Hitler salute and who boast of their race hatred.
Support Unite Against Fascism and stand up to these creeps...they have been beaten back in the past and can be beaten back in the future.
No platform for racists or nazis !! Stop the BNP!!
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 May 06 - 11:58 AM

Well said ifor.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 May 06 - 12:46 AM

well without being simplistic, what really gets me pissed off about about politics is that people see no connection between cause and effect. I'd make a lousy politician, because I just tend to see people who don't see the connections as fucking idiots.

You can blame Blair I suppose for radicalising a section of the Muslim population - getting us involved in Iraq. And that in turn has a knock on effect, because the more vociferous that minority get - the more threatened the rest of us feel in a post 7/7, 9/11 world.

However, we can't elect anybody else apart from Labour, as the tories have this agenda of seeing the rich allright top priority.. And you can always make thing a bit more 'efficient', secure a few more tax breaks for the really stinking rich with the loss of a few million jobs. And didn't this BNP gang secure its present toehold in all those years when Thatcher and Tebbit were robbing whole areas of the country of their self rspect by closing down major industries - as though it had as little consequence as closing down an unprofitable corner shop.

the reason politics is called politics and not idealism is that there are choices to be made. Because he supports the idea of the wealth of the country being more evenly spread, Blair and his party (much as it might stick in your craw) are the best anti BNP vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 06 - 08:03 AM

Do you think the BNP should be banned?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: clairerise
Date: 13 May 06 - 08:31 AM

I dont think you can just ban a political party. think of this, they now what? 50+ councillors plus, how do you explain the benefits of democracy to all the voters who chose to vote BNP by banning the party they voted for? 50+ councillors makes them the 4th political party in Britain. That is scary!

and it is not good enough to say, "because the people were duped", because they you insult the voter and you could actually say the same for any party. Tories claim public were duped by labour, vice versa, lib dems claim both duped public, all parties claim the BNP duped the public.

Democracy is not perfect, but it is its imperfections that make it a democracy. Only way to beat the BNP is by helping the other parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 13 May 06 - 08:55 AM

Really the 4th Largest political party in Britian?

Tory, Libdem, Labour.

What about the SNP, and Plaid Cymru? They must have more than 50 councillors. They've got proper MPs and all sorts

The DUP and Sinn Fein probably have as well. Not sure about the Greens, or UKIP.

Not forth, but definitly too big....

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: clairerise
Date: 13 May 06 - 09:07 AM

yes you are right. i was going off news reports on election night. but just looked up some other parties and greens are equally represented.

What do you think though about issues of democracy?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 06 - 01:32 PM

A British National Party councillor appears to be involved in making a gay porn film. Now these creeps are out banging the drum against gays and are calling for the act to be outlawed!

That is not true though. Their manifesto says they don't want it banned??????????

Why are you now lying? This doesn't help the issue

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 06 - 01:36 PM

and it is not good enough to say, "because the people were duped", because they you insult the voter and you could actually say the same for any party. Tories claim public were duped by labour, vice versa, lib dems claim both duped public, all parties claim the BNP duped the public.

What a stupid comment

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Paul Berry
Date: 13 May 06 - 02:02 PM

That is not true though. Their manifesto says they don't want it banned??????????

Sorry friend, read their site regarding acts of homosexually. Why do you think they are promoting it ? Check all manifesto's within last five years and you will find it. No one said which one.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Bryn
Date: 13 May 06 - 02:50 PM

Smash the nazis by any means necessary!
Bryn Coch

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 06 - 04:50 AM

In the event of the abolition of Clause 28 nationally, BNP councillors will seek a local referendum asking parents for their backing for a local prohibition on the teaching of homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle choice.

This is from their 2006 manifesto.

So let's face, now Section 28 is out the window this was bound to happen sooner or later as they've already got plans to teach 'gay sex' in Sex Education lessons in schools.

While it is not the fault of individual homosexuals that the government push this agenda it is the fault of the so called "Gay Rights Lobby" who constantly contradict themselves by claiming "our sexuality shouldn't be an issue" yet are always the first to scream "homophobia" when things don't go their way. What consenting adults get up to in the privacy of their own homes is their business as long as it doesn't involve children or animals. But what a lot of ordinary people object to is the way that such a lifestyle is being forced upon them, usually through the mass media.

This is from here: http://www.bnp.org.uk/articles/lgbt_month.htm

Where are you reading that they want it banned? I want to know, because if you where, it is a case of blatant hypocrisy.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 06 - 05:40 AM

It is not a case of case of blatant hypocrisy GUEST. Obvisiously you didn't attend the rally in Balham recently in which the speaker openly called for gays in Britian to be subjected to compulsory aids testing and to outlaw gay marriages and if two men are seen kissing in the street, act accordingly. And the speaker called for the release of David Copeland, the man charged with the bombing of the gay bar the Admiral Duncan.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 06 - 12:39 PM

what rally in balham? A BNP rally?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 06 - 11:10 AM

Yes

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 15 May 06 - 02:10 PM

I know the identity of 'Gillian Brookbourgh'. See 'her' previous contributions to the BS: BNP and folk music thread and 'her' attempts there to wind up Mudcat contributors.

'She' is certainly not a woman, can't spell 'Brookeborough' correctly, and has a knowledge of Northern Ireland politics which is laughable at best and diabolical at worst.

I won't name names, but let's say that Gillian lives far away from Epping and haunts areas in the region of West Clare.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 15 May 06 - 02:39 PM

Oh, and I should have mentioned that the message sent from 'Norman Stronge' was another hoax. Stronge was the Stormont Speaker shot in 1981. The Northern Ireland telephone book reveals nobody called 'Brookbourgh' living in the Six Counties. Furthermore, various Irish genealogical sources fail to come up with the 'Brookbourgh' name.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Wee Willie from up the Falls
Date: 15 May 06 - 03:03 PM

That fella Wallis has made a right pig`s ass of this Thread, I am sorely disappointed to see Gillian exposed, [wish I had seemn that sight].
I was enjoying Gillians supporting notes for the DUP and its fellow shit-houses in crime the DUP, please Gillian do come back and let me know if you put a nice word in for me with the beautiful Arlene Foster.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Wee Willie from up the Falls
Date: 15 May 06 - 03:04 PM

Wee Wille joins the 200 Club

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,dandruff
Date: 15 May 06 - 03:21 PM

Bout ya Willie. Did ya get any of the Conference Results ? Haven't heard from ya since ya were seeing that lad with the healing Crystals, did ya get any luck with a cure yet ?
Anyway good luck big lad.
Billy

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,dandruff
Date: 15 May 06 - 03:31 PM

Aye, ya like big Arlene then, fine bird alright, saw her a locka weeks back in the Textile Hall, danced her twice. No husband there now. Never know ya could be in there big lad !

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,robbo
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 05:58 AM

why cant you all just accept that Jesus is Lord and get saved then we will live in peace and harmony because instead of thinking we are christian because we are born in a so CALLED christian country that really isnt you will be christian and learn to love one another so think about it JESUS died for you to set you free so turn to HIM instead of your bitterness

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,robbo
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 07:13 AM

JESUS loves every race of people nomater who they are or what you have done He cares about you He wants to be your freind and talk to you try speaking to him because he will answer you.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 07:43 AM

O No can Robbo be Ian Paisley?, have we not got enough looneys on this Site without another bible thumper.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 08:34 AM

since when were you spokesperson for Jesus christ robbo? You think highly of yourself. Such ego, arrogance

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 08:39 AM

Your right Keith, faith in the answer. Well said

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,robbo
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 09:25 AM

not a looney just somebody changed by jesus from a violent no hoper who hated everybody to someone who cares about people it doesent matter what you think or say about me the fact is JESUS loves you and Ian Paisley

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 11:19 AM

And Keith too.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,catholic
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 02:43 PM

the fact is JESUS loves you and Ian Paisley

Why do you speak on his behalf with such arrogance? Your ego is huge. How do you know who jesus loves and doesn't love? And are there not scholars more learned than you to make that judgement? You have a high opinion of yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 07:29 AM

Do you not believe Catholic, that Jesus loves sinners?