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Singers finding players to practice
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Subject: Singers finding players to practice From: Janie Date: 05 May 06 - 11:59 AM Sorry for the awkward title--best I could do. My voice is better than my musicianship, but my musicianship is improving as I work more on developing my voice and vocal techniques. I am a long way from being really good, but am far from awful. I want the opportunity to work with a guitarist who is a decent musician to help me continue to improve and grow. I do not play an instrument. I find I am afraid to approach any of the good musicians I know because I don't see that there is any benefit to them. I'm wondering how other singers have dealt with this, and also, how instrumentalists would view such a request. Janie |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: GUEST Date: 05 May 06 - 12:03 PM personally, i'd love an arrangement like this ...never been able to find one tho. it would be mutually beneficial i think. the singer could work on her stuff ... the guitarist could work on chord changes, comping behind a singer, what works what doesn't, passing chords, lead-in runs to the next chord change etc etc ... |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Janie Date: 05 May 06 - 12:09 PM Guest--don't suppose you live near Hillsborough, NC do you :>) Janie |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: folkwaller Date: 05 May 06 - 12:12 PM Jane, where are you. |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: MMario Date: 05 May 06 - 12:12 PM I find I am afraid to approach any of the good musicians I know because I don't see that there is any benefit to them boy, do I know that feeling!!!! Good luck Janie - hope you find someone.... |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Janie Date: 05 May 06 - 12:16 PM Folkwaller--I'm in Hillsborough, NC, near Durham and Chapel Hill. The talent around here is a bit overwhelming! MMario--with your beautiful voice you would have much to offer...and your voice is also wonderful a capella! Janie |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: folkwaller Date: 05 May 06 - 12:25 PM Janie, unfortunately a little too far. Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: wysiwyg Date: 05 May 06 - 12:35 PM You might also find another singer to practice with. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: MMario Date: 05 May 06 - 12:41 PM Janie - you're no slouch in the singing department! |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Janie Date: 05 May 06 - 12:43 PM I could--it would certainly be easier in some ways--but I am wanting to focus on the interplay of voice and instrument. Also, I like and sing a fair number of different types of music, but particularly like jazz, blues, gospel, spiritual and jugband type music. Some of the gospel and spiritual music I can carry on my own a capella, but the rest of it needs more than just my voice. Janie |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: wysiwyg Date: 05 May 06 - 12:58 PM Get thee to a song circle and recruit unto thyself a partner? Ditto open mikes. (Be thou brave!) :~) Or-- take a trip over to us and bunk in for a month. We'll work you over! :~) ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 05 May 06 - 01:05 PM Janie still didn't tell us where she is. Maybe there is (are) some local Mudcatter would be willing. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: MMario Date: 05 May 06 - 01:11 PM Janie's in Hillsborough, NC, near Durham and Chapel Hill. |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Bert Date: 05 May 06 - 04:46 PM I have always found that really good musicians are always willing to help. Just choose someone you know who plays a similar knid of music and ask them. |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Gorgeous Gary Date: 05 May 06 - 04:53 PM Speaking from the guitarists' side, I've been asked by several normally a-capella singing friends to back them up on guitar. I love playing for/with them. First and foremost there's the usual fun and joy of performing. But I also find that it challenges me as a guitarist, especially if they're looking for a slightly different style or different strum patterns than I'm used to playing, and I welcome that challenge. Unfortunately I'm a few hundred miles away, but feel free to nab me at the Getaway! 8-) |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Leadfingers Date: 05 May 06 - 04:55 PM I feel the same as Gary - Enjoy being asked to back Non Musician singers , or to back an instrumentalist too !! |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: SunnySister Date: 05 May 06 - 05:01 PM Hi Janie, I wish you luck finding someone. Please post again and share the process if you are willing. I'd love to hear. I'm in the same position here in the San Francisco Bay area although I also have a master's program I'm trying to finish in addition to work and music. I wish my guitar playing was about a million times better so I wouldn't be so dependent on others... perhaps a good and bad thing... :) Wishing you the best in finding a great musician (and hopefully a new friend), --SunnySister |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: wysiwyg Date: 05 May 06 - 05:05 PM OR--- do what I did-- take up strummed autoharp. No-brainer playing. You do NOT have to be a guitar player to accompany yourself. Dulcimer, psaltery, whatever is easy. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 05 May 06 - 05:15 PM Try playing hostess to an informal musical get-together. Invite a handful of musicians and just let the picking and singing happen and see if something clicks. |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Pauline L Date: 05 May 06 - 06:12 PM Janie, I would LOVE to play my violin while you sing. It would be so much fun and beneficial for both of us. Would you like to visit me? Seriously. |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Alice Date: 05 May 06 - 10:35 PM Hi, Janie, I found people in my session years ago with whom I could perform on our own. A fiddle player plays piano, too, so we performed for several years together doing Robert Burns suppers every January and wedding ceremonies, etc. My son grew up playing violin and then mandolin, which I turned into a band with friends from the session. If you find a song circle or session, you should be able to find accompanists. My first accompanist was my voice teacher who performed with me (piano) and knew my voice and phrasing very well. That was great! Did you ever take those voice lessons that you got as a gift? Alice |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Ebbie Date: 05 May 06 - 11:07 PM I have a slightly different take on it, Janie. I would suggest finding someone who ALSO wants to go in another direction, whether it is singing or playing backup or whatever. There is no reason why you couldn't trade back and forth even if it's just harmonizing on your part when it's his or her turn to sing. Two thoughts come to mind: * A musician friend is a good fiddler and guitarist. He sings some too but he prefers playing. He has a brother who plays nothing but loves to sing. He's always after his player brother to back him on stage. The player got tired of it- as he said, he never got to do his own songs; whenever they got together his brother dominated the playlist. * A few years ago a banjo playing acquaintance of mine approached me to ask if I'd play back up for him because he was tired of playing to a metronome even though his timing was still off. So we did. He came up with a list of about 40 tunes that he practiced and practiced and practiced and- well, add the word as much as you like, because I played backup for him for over three years, before I got so bored I told him I couldn't do it anymore. (And his timing had not really improved, either!) I think it's wonderful that your whole region is so rich in music. It shouldn't be that hard to find someone. A few years back a musician friend took a teaching job in a small town about a 5 hour ferry ride away from Juneau. After a few months he told me there's no music there- he doesn't know anyone to play with. I told him that if I move to a town with 1000 residents, I know it has at least 30 people who play something or make music in one form or another and of those 30 people at least 10 of them would like to find someone to make music with, and I'm I'm going to find those 10 people. |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 05 May 06 - 11:36 PM Drop by your local university - post this same request on their music-department bulletine board.
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Ron Davies Date: 06 May 06 - 12:39 AM BWL's advice is great--have a music party-and don't be embarassed to invite talented instrumentalists. Tell them there will be some singing--so they know in advance. It's likely that all you'll have to do is tell them what key you sing a given song in and you'll have some great accompaniment. Let anybody who seems to want a break get one-- as you know, it enriches the song. I'd think you'd hear somebody you click with. |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Janie Date: 06 May 06 - 11:37 PM Thanks to all for your thoughts about this. Pauline--that would be great fun. Not sure when I could get away to do it, but definitely would like that. Janie |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 06 May 06 - 11:58 PM BTW and Mr. Davies advice are the BEST.
These affairs can be delightful fun.
It is great for the accompaniest to be challenged with NEW unread before sheet music....it is even better to be told...Bd is out of my range could you please move it to F? (Hell, F is so much easier on a tempered instrument)....But sheet in the correct key - whatever is is D#minor - is better than instantainously transposing.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 07 May 06 - 12:01 AM "Join a regular choral group." That was the best advice I ever got, and I recommend it for anyone. |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: GUEST,thurg Date: 07 May 06 - 01:00 PM My advice is to bite the bullet and start learning to play an instrument to accompany yourself with. In my experience, which admittedly seems to be unlike that of many on this thread, it is rare to find a competent accompanist whose heart is really in accompanying. |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Ron Davies Date: 07 May 06 - 01:40 PM Sheet music is not necessary--or even desirable for most folk music. Many instrumentalists only need be told the key --in country, bluegrass etc.--and they can accompany you--and even enjoy doing so--and like taking breaks. I certainly also second the motion on joining a choral group--though that isn't the thrust of this thread. I've sung in madrigal groups, sea chantey groups, men's choruses, mixed groups, big groups, small groups, 1 on a part, 12 in the group, 40 in the group, 180 in the group etc.--and it's all endlessly satisfying. If you want to be accepted at bluegrass sessions however, it's fairly important to have some vaguely bluegrass-type instrument you can play a bit---just to be able to get into the inner circle, where the music is happening. Just holding an instrument--and knowing what key you sing a given song in--is pretty important. For some reason, they don't seem to take seriously anybody who does not hold an instrument. At least that's been my experience. Obviously, also the more lyrics you know, the more demand you'll be in. But if you're throwing a music party, you can certainly ask the instrumentalists to accompany you--just tell them the key for whatever song you're doing. And as you know, the ability to sing harmony is also a big plus. I know you do this--I was really impressed by your singing at the Getaway. |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Janie Date: 07 May 06 - 11:25 PM thurg- I hear what you are saying. At one time I played guitar and autoharp--(neither particularly well, but well enough to accompany myself on simplier songs--but because of joint problems that I've written about before on the 'cat, I have not been able to play either for years. Ron- (and others) I have sung in choruses, and sing in the 'pick-up' choir at church, but I don't find it satisfying--the key is rarely simpatico with my exceptionally low voice, unless I sing with the 2nd tenors, and then it sounds weird to me--the tenors singing high male voice and me singing low female voice. It literally doesn't feel satisfying to the senses. But I do really enjoy singing harmony and would be very happy singing duets or or back-up vocals. Definitely I need to learn more songs, and that would make me more comfortable organizing a music party or three. When I was younger and listened to recorded music more than I do now, I didn't learn a lot of lyrics simply because I couldn't sing in the same key as the artist(s). I thought I couldn't sing the song! You folks on the'Cat and at the Getaways have been awesome in providing the support and encouragement for me to find my own voice. Lo! here I is wanting to take it further now. Thanks! Janie |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: CET Date: 08 May 06 - 06:25 PM Leadfingers, if you and I both make it to the Getaway, or we meet up when Charmion and I visit England this August, you're on! Edmund |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: GUEST,Dani Date: 08 May 06 - 08:45 PM Yeah, Janie! Start a song circle! Or a music party! Seriously, you can use my yard/porch/kitchen. Just tell me when to show up ; ) I also like the university bulletin board idea. UNC (you know those guys?) has a great music spot. Dani, not far from you... |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Janie Date: 08 May 06 - 10:56 PM If having a party will get you to sing along with me again, child, I will surely do it;^) Janie |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: GUEST,Graham O'Callaghan Date: 09 May 06 - 05:28 PM If a non-singing musician is worth their salt and of any 'standard' they would relish the opportunity to work with a singer to help them develop their own skills set. True accompaniment is not about banging out the melody, and good musicians will always try and rise to new challenges of song interpretation when faced with them. What the singer needs to do, is to be confident in what they sing and have faith in their own interpretive stamp on the song. It shouldn't be a battle or a compromise. just a coming together of like minds. I am a non-playing singer who has worked with some incredible professional musicians for song accompaniment, both for recording and in concert and it's worth the work believe me. A small tip is that when possible, go and listen to instrumental workshops from time to time to get a better understanding of where musicians are coming from also - don't segregate, integrate. |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: GUEST,Growler Date: 09 May 06 - 05:53 PM Janie Just do your thing. You'll find that some enchanted evening, at some Folk session, you will click. Be brave Simon |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Artful Codger Date: 09 May 06 - 07:11 PM You may be able to post notices in stores that sell or (better still) repair folk instruments. This may put you in touch with more "seasoned" and folk-oriented musicians than you're likely to encounter at a university music department. Repairmen tend to be acquainted with a many performers, as well as being musicians themselves. (Hey, I should try this myself!) |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Janie Date: 09 May 06 - 11:01 PM Thanks for the good advice Graham (et. al.) I guess I am not just looking for accompaniment--I am looking for partnering--but I am wanting a partner who can also be a teacher--whose instrumentation challenges me to learn to use the instrument of my voice to match their skill with their instrument in interpreting a song. At 54 I am old to suddenly be taking myself (halfway) seriously as a singer. I have sung all my life, but never had the confidence OR the understanding that working at it could make a difference. I didn't understand the concept of 'potential.' Now I have confidence in the potential of my voice. But not enough confidence to boldly ask one of the many talented musicians I know to work with me. Janie |
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Subject: RE: Singers finding players to practice From: Janie Date: 09 May 06 - 11:14 PM My sister is a fine fiddler and a good rhythm guitar player. We have tried to do some stuff together. I am just beginning to figure out that we are just not that compatible. With fiddle she is a traditional 'old time fiddle' nazi, and is careful to NOT listen much to fiddlers who play in a style that might unconsciously effect her Trad. Appalachian style. Musically we just don't speak the same language. I am really excited at Pauline's invitation because I often 'hear' the interplay of my voice and a fiddle or viola when I sing. But Sis doesn't 'do' that. Or I listen to a really good guitarist interpret a song with guitar that really resonates with how I interpret the song emotionally, or who has a sound and a style of playing that I think my own voice and interpretation would complement. BUT. BIG BUT. I am aware that my musicianship is not equal to their's and so am afraid to ask. Janie |
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