On Top of Old Smokey - parody problem

Subject: RE: On Top of Old Smokey - parody problem
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 May 06 - 08:31 PM

Hi Susan,

I might agree with you if there were a history of violence on the part of the young lady who sang the song. I believe it was unfortunate over-reaction because the elements of the behavior were not considered. Remember "Sticks and stones may break my bones?.."

I disagree that we don't need to know all the facts in this case. A zero-tolerance policy is suspect in that it is arbitrary by not taking into consideration its contradictory aspects.

The problem here is that the human element is cast aside in favor of a rigid arbitrary policy which may not even solve the problem. If the song was done in jest it was certainly inappropriate but if the young woman is punished through expulsion, she might be justifiably bitter about the experience. After all, it was just a song and not a gun. It in fact was not an actual threat.

The legal right in maintaining a rigid policy that does not allow for a discussion and a dismissal of the feelings of the violator particularly when she is a young person seems counter-productive to me. This authoritarian view of the law is one that can have a double-edged sword. We know what was instituted in the name of "law" that impacted on our history going back to women's suffrage and slavery.


The school officials are mirroring the hysteria of the times. the notion of girls being girls and boys being boys is somewhat suspect anyhow. These stereotypes have not helped to ease the injustice to which they were applied.

Susan, there has to be another way for a minor infraction other than a heavy-handed authoriarian solution to the problem. It's not as if she was bringing dope into class or threatening violence physically or with a weapon. Let the punishment fit the crime.

My view anyway. I'm grateful to have the opportunity to express it and open a dialogue on this issue.

Frank Hamilton




If you are saying that a zero-tolerance policy is not to your liking, I would refer you to teachers in your school district for further discussion of your school's policies and perhaps an opportunity to hear how school officials actually deal with threats in today's school environment.

Our society has taken things past the point when boys would be boys and girls would be girls. This is true not only in "tough" neighborhoods but in bucolic rural America, and pretty much everywhere in between. Schools have far more to deal with today than most people know.

~Susan

Subject: RE: On Top of Old Smokey - parody problem
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 06 - 09:36 PM

God knows what they would think to the antics of My Friend Billy today. No doubt the little lad would be arrested for sexual harassment.

Subject: RE: On Top of Old Smokey - parody problem
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 06 - 09:52 PM

The school district was RIGHT!

Something is seriously WRONG with the current 11 to 16 y.o. generation.

Perhaps, was "Road Runner" cartoons - however, the 12-22 y.o. on a high school campus in southern California is twisted and out of focus. On my single campus in 18 months there have been seven (7) direct battery incidents and the child is held blameless, assaults (threats) are in the hundreds.

With California's skewed perspective - the child is right - and without a collaborating witness the educator is wrong.

It is easy to laugh at a parody from fifty years ago....TODAY...NO!!!in the last ten weeks it is trauma and anxiety when my personal classroom has yeilded one direct death threat "we will get ya...you gonna see the big Mr. D." and another student with a weapon is discovered through a simple classroom "referral."

Southern California schools have students with both parents in jails. The web of gang affilitions is TIGHT. Pay-Backs are a Bitch. Laugh now...Cry later. If you die "on the job" your family gets an extra 10K from the state union.

Subject: RE: On Top of Old Smokey - parody problem
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 May 06 - 12:21 AM

Frank,

Actually, I don't like zero-tolerance approaches either, but I sure can see why schools feel driven to them.

I work in the opposite environment-- church-- so I guess I now work in an environment where the professionals and paraprofessionals are assumed to be ready to tolerate everything. Now THAT is a weird expectation to live with and work within!

~Susan

Subject: RE: On Top of Old Smokey - parody problem
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 May 06 - 09:56 AM

"Our society has taken things past the point when boys would be boys and girls would be girls. "

I respectfully disageree. The only thing that has happened in society is that we have more dangerous toys and an inflated sense of paranoia.

There is a perception that bringing guns to school is a phenomenon that cropped up in the last several years. Check your history books, it is not new.   Gangs are not new. Violence is not new.   What has changed is that we live in a 24/7 news blitz with several networks that have a mandate to feed us news constantly.   Where once a story would have been a short piece on the 6 o'clock news, now we are treated to live coverage of police chases, school lockdowns, and more details than ever before.

I agree that many teachers are scared. Many people today are also afraid to fly or work in a high-rise building. I'm afraid we've lost perspective and reason. Instead of tackling the big issues, such as how students get access to such weapons in the first place, we create smokescreens with policies that do little good.   Zero Tolerance does not work, there is more evidence against it than there is for it.

Subject: RE: On Top of Old Smokey - parody problem
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 15 May 06 - 10:40 AM

"...I bopped her on the bean
    With a rotten tangerine--
       And he teeth came marching out!!!!......"
That's the way I learned "Glory, Glory Hallelujah;
                           Teacher hit me with a ruler..."--
I mean, while we're (sortof) on the subject of folkore & The Folk Process...............Tw

Subject: RE: On Top of Old Smokey - parody problem
From: GUEST,yeahright
Date: 15 Feb 10 - 03:21 PM

no harm comes from this parody... and there aren't neccessarily mental issues involved when somebody sings it. i'm 20, and when i was 10 years old, in fifth grade.. everyone sang that song... not one of us ever shot our teachers..   so this is bogus.. you're probably all teachers anyway...

Subject: RE: On Top of Old Smokey - parody problem
From: GUEST,cameron
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 08:24 AM

on top of the school house all covered with sand
i shot my poor teacher with a green rubber band
i went to her funeral i went to her grave
some people threw flowers i threw a grenade
i noticed my teacher wasnt quite dead
so i took my bazooka and blew off her head
something i didnt think of that seems like a hex
was that stupid substitute that will soon be next!!! :)