Applause - session v singaround

Subject: Applause - session v singaround
From: GUEST,Donald
Date: 19 May 06 - 07:09 AM

Why is it that ......

....After each 'turn' (even communal songs) at a singaround, the room breaks into applause, whereas at your typical session, at the end of each set, those present usually quietly reach for their pints, perhaps sharing a word with their neighbour until the next set begins? I have my own views on this, but what are yours (serious or otherwise!) ?

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: IanC
Date: 19 May 06 - 07:28 AM

Simply ain't true in my experience.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 19 May 06 - 07:31 AM

Spectators often applaud - specially if there's a song. The musicans don't because they'd be applauding themselves.

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: gnomad
Date: 19 May 06 - 07:31 AM

If by session you are meaning an instrumental one I think that the difference may lie in the degree to which the crowd are doing it themselves.

With most songs (ie all but the best-known ones) one performer or small group of performers will sing the song, with the assistance of the crowd in the choruses (if any). With most tunes one player will lead off, but will expect to be joined by those who will for the majority of the piece.

As a result a song is applauded as an effort by a single person, or small group, whereas the tune is more something everyone did, so applause might be a bit odd.

Of course the reality is that many tune sessions have non-players present, and some songs tend to get sung by the whole room, but we are taking sweeping generalisations here, aren't we? B-)

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: gnomad
Date: 19 May 06 - 07:32 AM

Too many words, Tom has the sense of it.

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 May 06 - 07:40 AM

"don't because they'd be applauding themselves"

Interesting cultural divide here - in many Eastern/Asian countries, one is expected to applaud oneself - well actually one is applauding the thanks (applause) of those applauding (thanking) you.


Where's Shanghaiceltic when you need him? :-)

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: Paul Burke
Date: 19 May 06 - 08:13 AM

To me, a session isn't a singaround, and songs etc. are a rarity. I'm talking mainly about Irish sessions I've known in the UK and Ireland over the last 30 years or so.

Applause is rare, too, reserved for, say, a really outstanding solo. The musicians are playing mainly for each other, not to entertain the punters, who are there because they like the ambience. And they seldom applud each other- friendly ragging is more likely. Though a good crowd makes a good session, they are still largely tangential to the whole effort.

Although it's obviously staged, I think the CD "Music At Matt Molloy's" is a good evocation of session atmosphere, complete with the music getting ragged as the musicians get 'tired'.

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 May 06 - 08:16 AM

Something to do with the fact that musicians at a session tend to play inwards to each other, whereas singers face out and sing to the audience?

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 May 06 - 08:42 AM

Generally it's how you describe it,Greg, but not always. I found the singing in the Bedford (Sidmouth) to be more like your session format (all face inwards and ignore the punters), while the "session" at the Newt was more like a singaround (everyone in a big circle sort of formation).

Guess which I enjoyed.

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: Bill D
Date: 19 May 06 - 09:10 AM

In some areas, 'applause' gets to be just a habit. After awhile, no one knows how to stop. We have tried to 'suggest' that it is not needed in song circles a few times, but with mixed results. New people often re-start the habit.

It feels awkward, except in very special cases...

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: Carol
Date: 19 May 06 - 09:14 AM

I always laugh to myself especially when going to a 'new' venue as a floor singer when people applaud before you sing/perform - sometimes i wonder if it's wishful thinking!!

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: GUEST,Donald
Date: 19 May 06 - 10:12 AM

Some good feedback here - thanks.

Paul B : "And they (the musicians) seldom applaud each other- friendly ragging is more likely" - aha! maybe that's it!

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: Susan of DT
Date: 19 May 06 - 10:22 AM

People seem to be applauding more often in song circles than they used to and I find it strange. I prefer the nods or brief comments ("nice") to applause.

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 May 06 - 11:25 AM

My own preference is to nod slightly meditively,do a little hammmm and then mutter "Lovely, lovely" in a sort of pseudo-Irish whisper.

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: GUEST,Donald
Date: 19 May 06 - 11:49 AM

I pos(t)ed the same question on TheSession.org - the replies may be of interest:

http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/10079

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: stallion
Date: 19 May 06 - 12:27 PM

At the Tap we have a mixed session, applause gets in there but I don't really take notice of it. We all cram in and face whichever is the most comfortable. I think that when musicians are playing the crowd talk, it becomes background music. When people sing, generally speaking, they are chorus songs which everyone usually joins in with, the applause is a sort of "thank you" for doing something they can join in with. I personally enjoy the "craic" with everyone joining in and sing chorus songs, Damien Fynes has a rare tallent of involving everyone and rightly so gets a vigorous applause from musicans and singers. (given that everyone not playing an instrument is a singer since it is a session not a concert) If anything, there are punters who occupy tables because they can and are not interested in any of the music, never stop yakking and talk louder as the evening goes on, Ron Martin and I are fortunate to have powerful enough voices to drown them out, when Geoff and Ian from Keepers Fold turn up the optics shake in the chorus!

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: GUEST,woodsie
Date: 19 May 06 - 01:07 PM

There is another annoying phenomenon at Jazz sessions/performances. The main melody is played a couple of times then each musician plays a solo - followed by applause irrespective of how good it was. Then they do a thing called FOURS where they play play a bit then the drummer plays a bit repeatedly until one of them breaks back into the melody again, there is more applause then they finish to more applause. Then the host intoduces each player to more applause. This is repeated throughout the night. My hands are very sore afterwards. What really pisses me is that people who were chatting and not even listening also clap on cue each time!

This constant clapping is also responsible for ruining Thelonius Monk's "Greatest Hits" on Legacy.

What's up with people?

I now only clap when I think the solo is outstanding and also at the end of the piece.

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 19 May 06 - 03:37 PM

Because the musicians have their hands full? ;-)

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: Mr Happy
Date: 19 May 06 - 04:00 PM

at the do's I frequent , I'll applaud where appropriate, even sometimes if I've bin playing along as well, but not indiscriminately.

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: Hopfolk
Date: 19 May 06 - 10:16 PM

Desert Dancer has the crux - You can't clap with a violin/guitar/melodeon/concertina/bodhran/banjo/mandolin/etc in your hands.
And to put the instrument down would be running a chance of missing the start of the next reel or whatnot.

CamoJohn

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: My guru always said
Date: 20 May 06 - 04:57 AM

This thread's another eye-opener for me, how interesting!

I'd understood about sessions (especially Irish - the muttered 'Lovely' or 'Fair Play' between verses is quite a delight) & jazz (vaguely) but had not realised there was such a difference in 'applause ettiquette' between Singarounds here in the UK & Song Circles across the Pond. Boy, am I glad I found out before venturing abroad as my fragile confidence could be shattered by the lack of applause after singing.

Having been a participant and also an organiser of regular & irregular Sings, Sessions & MudGathers I've always been impressed by Folkies tendency to applaud performances both good and bad. This 'habit' has done much to encourage both new and improving participants, and I feel that that encouragement has helped to put down solid roots for the Folk community in the UK.

Risky question but please don't be offended:

Does the lack of general applause in Song Circles reduce this encouragement in the USA? Or does it help to 'discourage' poor or unconfident singers?

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: stallion
Date: 20 May 06 - 05:24 AM

The first time I ever sang in Public was in a song circle in Redcar when I was 18 years old, it was met with a stoney silence and then "next", It was another three years before I did another solo spot! I think in our session all new singer and players, whatever the quality, get vigorous support in the applause department, the more accomplished sometimes don't get any! However this is not always the case, in some very cliquey places the locals get the plaudits and the strangers (unless an established name) are not so well recieved. Now, forty years on, I realize that redcar was just how it was, I think I have already said earlier, the real appreciation is the ammount of people joining in with your songs, inclusivity, even if sometimes the things people request you to sing are, to you, tired and worn out (Black valvet band, Wild Rover etc.[does that say more about me?]) But they know them and want to sing them and who am i, a censor? I think one should not worry about the applause and enjoy your music, do it for the musics sake and don't worry about it. Having said that it is really nice when people tell you they like what you do and stings when they tell you they don't. I try and treat both the same, I don't reall y need either ( like Passion and Jealousy, you can't seem to get one without the other)

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: Grab
Date: 20 May 06 - 12:36 PM

I've never understood the jazz idea of applauding after solos.

A song or tune is a single entity. It starts when the first note is played, and finishes when the last note dies away. Whatever happens in between should be aimed at driving that song forward, whether it suits your ego or not - the song is what matters. If performed well, a solo should flow naturally from the position in the song, and it should then lead naturally into the next part of the song. A song that's done well simply shouldn't have *room* for people to applaud, else they'll miss the next bit. If there *is* room for that pause while applause happens, it's proof absolute that the solo was superfluous to the song and was simply egotistical wankery.

That explains an awful lot of jazz music and musicians, as far as I can tell...

As far as clubs go, what Tom said, with the proviso that applause should be proportional to the effort involved. If someone's singing in public for the first time and it's obviously taken barrel-loads of guts to simply stand up in front of people, they deserve applause however it goes. Anyone with experience though needs to set out to impress - if they've not done their practise or aren't so good on the night, they get the applause they deserve based on that.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: JulieF
Date: 20 May 06 - 01:46 PM

I expect applause in places that I'm not well known

but probably banter and comment and 'Can't you sing it in D so we can put the pipes against it' etc   in places that I am very well known ( and sometimes applause as well - its always good to know you've got them interested and they haven't all gone for a break)

Still there is nothing quite like the experience of silencing a noisy pub for the duration of a song and then getting applause. Its only happen a couple of times but it doesn't half give you a buzz ( except for the bit in the middle when you realise that there is no noise and unless they've all gone , they are all listening.

J

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: My guru always said
Date: 26 May 06 - 07:32 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: Scrump
Date: 26 May 06 - 10:10 AM

The sessions/singarounds I go to usually have a few spectators who will applaud anyway, and I guess it seems natural for the performers who weren't actively involved in any particular set/song/etc. to applaud as well. For example, there are a few unaccompanied singers who applaud the musicians, and vice versa.

On the whole I like it, because I like to try out songs at these sessions/singarounds, and that way I get an idea of how well each was received, so I can decide which songs to use in proper gigs or floor spots, etc. I think I would find it a bit disconcerting if no-one clapped!

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: IvanB
Date: 26 May 06 - 10:28 PM

I'd have to say that most US singarounds that I've attended tend to just offer a quiet "well done" or "well chosen" compliment at the end of each song rather than applause. I'd probably be as embarrassed as hell if someone applauded at the end of one of my songs. I've never been met with stony silence yet, even at the Milwaukee Irish Fest, where I was a complete unknown in a pretty tight group of people who seemed to know each other well.

Subject: RE: Applause - session v singaround
From: stallion
Date: 27 May 06 - 05:23 AM

I had a listen last night, not many musos in (Whitby & gigging put paid to the regular attenders). The place was full of people not there for the singing. The following comments will come as no surprise, in the early evening songs were given varying degrees of polite applause, the more the audience drank the louder the applause and the more they participated, Ron sang Kieth Marsden's "The Manch", the whole place went up and after a succession of drinking songs the place was rocking. Conclusion? When an audience has had a skinful they lose their inhibitions and give the music the due applause ;o)