The meaning of 'acoustic'

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Rich
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 08:53 AM

I run a little night in a small local pub, and I advertise it as a folk/ acoustic singaround. I do this so as not to discourage people who may play self penned or classic singer/songwriter stuff who might be nervous about coming to a folk night, but I want to encourage folk singers and players because that is my main interest.

We seem to get reasonable mix of music and styles but whether it is due to this I don't know. We don't use amplification.

Midchuck et al regarding considerate listeners; I think it is just to do with whether people are considerate and polite, as opposed to whether they are young or old. In these sessions the people I most often have to ask to be quiet are generally older as opposed to the younger people there, but I don't draw the conclusion that old people don't know how to shut up.

There are folk festivals and concerts that have a very large very-young element who do know how to 'shut up'. Which is no different to the people who 'were young' in the 60s and 70s who could do the same, when there was also plenty of amplififed music around. It is very easy to slip into a prejudiced opinion, maybe without even realising it. Just because you have come across inconsiderate young people, does not mean all young people are inconsiderate.

Sorry for the thread (re)drift.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 08:35 AM

You can go louder with a variax and a smaller amp. and also there is a simulated compression knob. Honest if that's how the bread an butter get on the table - that's the way to go.

Don't worry Lowden, I've tried the lot. i was that idiot.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 08:02 AM

My advice is get yourself something like a Marshall AS 100 and take it with you wherever you go - if necessary plug it into the house system and tell the soundman to take the evening off.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 07:39 AM

I wasn't really talking about folk. i was talking about getting an acoustic sound in a very noisy pub.

Jerry Garcia once said either you eat the room, or the room eats you. I'm afraid these are the sad facts of life for professional musicians.

Rule one: be heard or you won't get paid.

the instrument that this gentleman was decrying will be a major help to folk musicians and will help folk music exist in venues where previously it couldn't. Perhaps I could have chosen my words better. Doubtless I am red in claw from too many lost campaigns to take acoustic music out of the folk clubs. I apologise if I hurt your sensibilities - but I beg you to take my comments seriously.

Some of the greatest guitarists who ever existed have had to earn their livings in places full of noisy ignorant people who couldn't shut up without surgical procedure. I think the modelling acoustic guitar sounds offers a new era of acoustic guitar playing. cheer up - technology is on our side!

the young kids that come after us won't have to retire hurt from the arena, like say Django Rheinhardt did.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Guest Tim
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 05:47 AM

Sorry this is the endless arguement about what is accoustic,Deffinition of folk is on 400 threads and a life time of bitterness and rejection elswhere

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 05:34 AM

weelittledrummer

Much better have a big noise, and nail the bastatrds to the wall till their ears bleed if necessary. More power!

Somehow, this isn't a definition of "folk" that I can identify with.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:16 AM

'They even have a guitar that looks acoustic but is incapable of playing as a normal acoustic guitar or sounding at all like an acoustic. So, the geeks have built an onboard digital emulator into the thing to allow the guitar to sound like a variety of other instruments. I bit the bullet and felt sorry for the poor clerk and tried it out. Even the acoustic guitar emulator sounded lame! I guess if acoustic guitar makers made guitars that sounded better they wouldn't need to enhance them with all those fancy electronics.'

I think what you are talking about is the line 6 variax. which is a godsend to anybody who doesn't have the meek respectful audiences that folk clubs, folk festivals and the like provide you with. Get the right amp - AER is a good combination - and the variax will deliver a good acoustic sound through the speakers - certainly better than plonking a mike in front of an acoustic. also it doesn't feed back - even at high volume.

If you are using the PA system - you're dependant on some wally at the desk anyway - most of whom ain't got a clue. One time I capoed two - and somehow the whole of guitar sound was gated out. Much better have a big noise, and nail the bastatrds to the wall till their ears bleed if necessary. More power!

You re right about one thing - the sales assistants of England have no idea, even five years on, how to demo the variax. lets face it - getting the sellotape off the box is a logistical challenge for most of 'em!

There is a good review of the variax in this months acoustic magazine. the reviewer initially hates it, and then all of a sudden he gets it. This is the guitar for a guy gigging in a ford fiesta. quite right - I used to have two mackie 450 speakers - nearly a killowatt of power, and still my guitar was virtually inaudible in some noisy pubs (I'm a picker, not a basher) - thats even with a damn good yamaha transducer system. With the variax and I'd have volume to spare with a 250 watt fender passport system.

It might look like the devil - but give the variax its due!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: reggie miles
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 01:12 AM

I seen the new trend in acoustic guitars being outfitted with onboard electronics and how many now use them at every open stage I attend. Nowadays, the sound man doesn't know what to do with a guy like me that doesn't want to plug in. I like the way my instruments sound acoustically and when I hear them otherwise it throws me off when I'm on stage.

I do have my homnemade resophonic outfitted with a pickup but it does little to reflect what the guitar actually sounds like acoustically and I've rarely used it in the last 15 years. If I have to get really loud, and that's not often, I've used both a mic and I've plugged in and blended the signal. If I had my druthers, I'd only play acoustically but I can't think of any venues locally that support those kinds of performances.

Many open mics around here refer to themselves as acoustic but the first thing that the majority of the players do when they walk up on stage is look around for the cord that they're going to plug in to their guitars. I've become the dinosaur, the antique that doesn't plug my guitars in and my sound on stage suffers because of this choice. Sound guys today generally are unaccustomed to trying to dail in an acoustic instrument because most everyone who says they play acoustically are actually playing plugged in acoustic instruments, instruments with pickups.

Greg, I understand your frustration about the confusion of the language being used but it's at least partially due to the new inbred instruments that now dominate the market, that look acoustic but are in fact fully wired, like most any other electric guitar, to be able to plug into an amplifier or PA system. I suppose the trend itself is driven by the fact that the whole idea has really been a boon to all the dealers out there. Those same dealers, that used to market electric gear to only elctric bands now have 'acoustic amps', 'acoustic pickups' etc. Acoustic amp? Isn't that an oxymoron?

The issue here really doesn't matter to the retailers or the manufacturers of the stuff they market. They've had a field day designing things to appeal to the new 'acoustic' market and have been raking in huge profits with each new toy they invent. Have you seen the price differences between electric amps for electric guitars verses those acoustic amps, supposedly made specifically for acoustic guiatrs that can be plugged in? It's insane!

They even have a guitar that looks acoustic but is incapable of playing as a normal acoustic guitar or sounding at all like an acoustic. So, the geeks have built an onboard digital emulator into the thing to allow the guitar to sound like a variety of other instruments. I bit the bullet and felt sorry for the poor clerk and tried it out. Even the acoustic guitar emulator sounded lame! I guess if acoustic guitar makers made guitars that sounded better they wouldn't need to enhance them with all those fancy electronics.

So, yes, I do share some of your frustrated head scratching at the latest trends and find myself increasingly in the minority when it comes to actually performing without the aid of a pickup. I play acoustically on the street in our local market because they don't allow amps there. There is a god.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 08:52 PM

I recall one 'Folk Festival' where there HAD to be Amplification for Main Stage , and the Sound Man was NOT (In the Irish sense) Sound .
Martin Carthy on , Solo , with Vocal Mic and DI'd Guitar ! The 'Sound Man' was working overtime , the result being a completely flat output from the Speakers ! At one point , with Martin doing an Unaccompanied song , there was total silence from the speakers for about fifteen seconds . NOT GOOD !!!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 08:06 PM

why thankyou kindly!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Rockhen
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 06:43 PM

As Doug Chadwick, (who has never upset me or been anything other than a smashing bloke,) said, acoustic when it is used for an acoustic night, where I go to play music, means no electric...well, they leave the lights on...and NO PIANO because they don't have one....er....not that it is something that I feel very GRUMPY about or anything, because my electric piano OF COURSE won't work without electricity....not that I am complaining or feeling hard done by or anything ...I can of course take my piano accordion, which I cannot play in the same style whatsoever :-(

Oh, and open mic nights, when I go, mean you may take the same acoustic instruments...and plug them in or play them into a mic...
oh yes, THEN I can take my electric piano :-)    Hmmmm I wonder if other piano players have the same feelings as I do about being unfortunate enough to play more or less the only instrument too big to cart along without a small truck and 3 or 4 very strong people to wheel it into a venue. Ok Ok a bit off the thread, sorry, folks, just ignore me, just a separate rant for another thread probably! :-)

Hey WLD, your poetry still is tops! :-)

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 06:11 PM

if you're a poet, its a word that rhymes with 'a Pooh stick'.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Guest Tim
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 01:51 PM

Have several times been so fed up with what the PA guy thinks my guitar should sound like,I have moved off the performance area to the front of the audience and annoyed them from there.
The PA can be great but is more often a pain.
Sound enhancement is what makes the music louder but does not alter it in any other way.
And as for the PA jockey who cant leave the bloody gain alone and turns you up for the quiet bitsss.
Grrrrrr

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 01:21 PM

I play an acoustic guitar unplugged, and where appropriate plugged into an acoustic amp, and I play and sing folk songs; I'm obviously very confused...... can't expect to get bookings in most folk clubs I suppose.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:41 PM

I remember guitarist John James saying that the "acoustic" in "acoustic guitar" means "if you drop it, it breaks"! I, also, recall veteran pop singer Joe Brown saying that he once arrived early at a club he was playing at, and asked one of the staff what the acoustics were like in the place. " We've had traps out for them all week, and we can't catch the buggers", was the reply, he received.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:05 PM

This is one of those problems for which there is probably no solution, but it invites 'catters to comment endlessly, which is what we do best.

Greg had a point, when he opened this thread, even if he did bash librarians. (Hey, pal, you wanna step outside??)

I wish librarians did write more of the stuff I have to sit through at the monthly open mike I attend. 24 time slots and on a good night, six performers that I really enjoy, admire, and/or learn from.

I know the drill. The dude with the pork pie hat and the gold chains gets up and says, "Here's a folk song I wrote last week." All too often, we are then screamed at, rather than sung to; treated to four repetitions of the chorus; and/or drawn into some Gothically dark "slice of life" thing you expect to find on L&O/Criminal Intent rather than in folk music. Yeah, yeah--Tom Dooley had a dark side; but it didn't come with the eff word and it didn't describe every perversion in detail. My schtick is, "Here's a folk song somebody way better than me at composition wrote 200 years ago, so refrain from ordering espresso for three minutes and maybe you can hear it."

I have to say this about the "unplugged" thing though. I have put pickups in or on all of the six or eight kinds of folk instruments I own. Am I unfaithful to tradition? Maybe, but it's a matter of self defense. The O.M. I attend most often draws a very, very polite audience and most of the time you can hear a pin drop in the place during performances, but the cold fact is that you can't hear nylon stringed guitars or lap dulcimers or what-have-you from the most distant seats in this modest-sized hall, so watchagonnado?

As to the vanity of trying to discuss what "folk" is, picture this: A group of us were doing a historic gig at one of the Missions--for you UK folks, I'm talking about the Spanish churches that were built around 1800. We were in period dress and doing the best we could to confine ourselves to early 1800s material. John Q. Public with the gold chains, bottle tan and open-necked shirt swishes up to us and wants to hear "Girl from Ipanema." Yeah, right; you really get the point of all this.

As I said to begin with, I see no solution, but it's nice to be able to vent among like-minded venters, even if Doug C. did use the words "culture" and "accordion" in the same paragraph.

Now I'd better leave before I'm asked to step outside. :)

Chicken Charlie

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 04:16 PM

At the pub where I play, we have an open mic night in the middle of the month and an acoustic culture night at the end of the month. The acoustic night means just that - no amps, no speakers, no mics. Mudcatter Rockhen feels hard done to because, whereas the guitar players use the same instruments but without the leads, she has to leave her digital piano at home and switch to an accordion.

DC

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 03:47 PM

Has anybody written a song called, Turnham Green, incidentally?

Not called that,but there is this by Mark Knopfler:

Turnham Green, Turnham Green
You took me high
As I've ever been
Now it's all gone
And now I'm clean
Junkie doll, I was stuck on you
My junkie doll

(For the rest of it see here.)

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 10:14 AM

It could be that I am influenced in favour of playing acoustically, by the fact that I do indeed play tenor banjo!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: John Hardly
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 10:00 AM

There are always the exceptions that prove the rule. For instance...

Tenor banjos are acoustic instruments that must be plugged into an amplifier in order to turn down their volume.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Cliff
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 07:24 AM

We have a local pub that offers different music styles on different weeks!
1st Sunday of month - folk club
2nd Sunday of month - blues night
3rd Sunday - ACOUSTIC night - 'just bring your instrument & plug in'.

Always makes me laugh!

Problem is, when talking to other singers / players etc. they dont see the conflict with the statement until its pointed out.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Acorn4
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 07:07 AM

Agreeing with the last posted message- I much prefer to perform without PA if given the choice -I think a mike can put a barrier between you and the audience - some clubs insist on using PA, when it isn't really necessary- it's daft in a showbox of a room where you only have a handful of audience - only when it's a huge room or there's a noisy crowd would i prefer a PA system.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 06:52 AM

Great thread.

As a performer, I really like being able to turn up, not to have to do sound checks, argue about levels in the monitors and worry about the sound checks running into the performance time, especially if you are low down in the billing, you might just get shoved on and told "we'll balance you as you play". It costs too. After spending lots of money on quality instruments, you then have to spend plenty more to make sure you have the right pickup and the right pre-amp/eq system to get the "natural" sound of the instrument, even then, you are at the mercy of the sound engineer. Also, I think playing acoustically makes you sensitive to what is going on around you, altering what you play and how you play it to make sure that you have a good balance with your colleagues.

As a member of an audience, I hate the performance starting late due to complications, the time eaten between acts adjusting the mics and doing yet another sound check, because things have changed (including the acoustics of the venue now that it is packed with people). I also hate having to put up with the prejudices of the sound engineer, the eq they use, volumes and effects, especially if the engineer in question is not familiar with the genre or the act.

Yep I still like to listen to electric stuff, but I like the simplicity and nuances that come with doing it without a PA.

Incidentally, Mawkin were playing at a festival, Sidmouth I think, where the power went off. They got off stage and went and sat right in front of the audience. They made quite a few friends and enhanced their reputation.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 08:36 PM

I guess the most extreme perversion of "acoustic" I've encountered is at the Philadelphia Folk Festival, where non-electric instruments are played and singers perform on a stage that's so far removed from the audience that they not only need amplification to be heard, but require larger-than life TV screens to be seen.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 06:07 PM

My son's band, A Beautiful Noise, recently began to experiment with more acoustic performances of their songs. If audience reaction is any gauge, it seems to be working in their favor, especially in smaller venues. In bigger ones, they have to use mikes to overcome the ambient noise; you know, bottles crashing, bartenders yelling, comely maids protesting and the like. The only downside to date is that I can't get my Taylor back from him.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 03:54 PM

I have just done a good few gigs acoustically(ie without amplification). These included arts centres; village halls(not that large,but a fair size, audiences up to about 140); pubs(in the bar). Now, not one single person came up and complained they couldn't hear(though I'm sure some may have had some difficulty, if they had hearing problems). But a lot of people always make a point of saying how thoroughly nice it is to hear instuments and voices through the air from the performer in the old way, un processed. Now, obviously you can't play rock and roll acoustically, I wouldn't want to. But playing acoustically seems to me a great thing to try, when performing the kind of music that was created that way. And I think there is a market out there for people who like it.
   It has been said earlier on this thread that you "have " to amplify music, so that enough people can hear the music to make it economic. Well, do you "have" to? It's perfectly easy to play a folk gig to two hundred people in a hall with nice acoustics without a PA. People often pay £10 to go to a folk gig, in fact they often pay a lot more. But let's say £10. So that generates £2000 on the door. A typical door deal would give the group 80%., ie £1600. £400 apiece, for a four person group(or a bit less after taking off the travel and some other expenses. You can generally get put up for free). Now, nobody can tell me you "need" to earn more than £400 per person a gig. You might like to, but that's another thing. Even if you only get 80 people in, you're still on £150+ a head.It's a living.
So, I'm totally in favour of acoustic gigs(really acoustic that is). Anybody got any new thoughts?(this is an old thread)

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: melodeonboy
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:53 PM

I notice in the "What's On" supplement of today's Kent Messenger that the Flower Pot in Maidstone is hosting an "Electro Acoustic Jam Night" next week!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Ernest
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 01:56 PM

Just as canned meat is fresh, Slag...

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Rob the Roadie
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 01:52 PM

Well I am roadie for Taggart and Wright who specialise in unaccompanied singing (acapella) and at their recent gig at the Middlewich Folk and Boat Festval if it was not for the use of a PA borrowed from Kevin Farrell at the last minute(thanks Kevin) they would not have been heard in what was a very busy and noisey pub The Narrowboat. As it even the diners at the very far end could hear them and they went down a treat. Now they were acoustic as you can get but used a PA to be heard!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Slag
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:19 PM

Well, someone beat me to the old "shooting pool" line so nix that. All pre-electric age musical insturments have some sort of mechanical amplification devise incorporated into their design so acoustic does NOT mean "unamplified". Rather, I take it to mean "sans electronic amplification". So, if you buy a CD of an acoustic performance and play it in your handy little CD player, is it still acoustic???

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,nickp (cookieless)
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:30 PM

Re the 3rd post - not a song but (I'm fairly sure that) Nigel Carter from London is responsible for the tune 'Turnham Green' used by the 'Paddington Pandemonic' (I'm struggling with memory here) clog team. I have a feeling it was a variation of British Grenadiers done in the minor.

I'll let you get back to the point...

Nick

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Keef
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 07:20 AM

Woohoo!!
What a great thread. From pianos to opera et all.
I'm not seriously suggest that amplification be banned but I think that real acoustic performance is becoming an endangered species.
It is obvious that there is a limit on how large an audience can enjoy listening to a performance "sans yamaha".
Albert Hall or Carnegie...no problem...I'd give it a go!
Wembley Stadium? No probably not....
From my own experience as an audience member I have had heard many more performances spoiled by excessive amplification than by lack of decibels.
It is much easier to shush idiots in the audience than to influence a power crazed insensitive new age sound person.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Ernest
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:09 AM

Yes, there are elecric pianos that look and sound like real ones...

... and there are politicians that look and sound like humans....

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:47 AM

It's only a matter of time before we'll all be playing tunes on mobile phones..........................!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 06:55 PM

A really, really GOOD electronic keyboard can sound just as warm and real as an acoustic piano, in my opinion. Some of them are even built to look like acoustic pianos.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Rockhen
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:55 PM

Re Keef's comment "An electronic piano even if played quietly through its inbuilt speakers is just not the same as a proper piano. Take a reasonable piano (in tune) add a competent player and a merry throng, pretty soon you will have a group around the piano belting out "dirty ditties" at the minimum. Electronic keyboards are more convenient, stay in tune etc but they don't seem to have that same magic."

Before long, I believe there will very few pianos remaining in public places. Either piano music starts to die out or we have to find an alternative...depends upon your personal opinion, which option you prefer, LOL!
My electric piano is different to my traditional piano but it is very realistic and can be played expressively. I hope I manage to make a good attempt at doing just that. I have had a lot of nice evenings with friends singing "dirty ditties" as you put it around it and they didn't seem to mind it being electric. It is different to a keyboard and is as near as you can get to a piano without being one...
Ok Ok...I love my pianos and can't bear to miss the chance to play them if people want to listen! Biased? Yes, definitely! :-)

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Stephen
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:42 PM

Don't you remember, a long time ago, the flap about eelskin wallets deleting information from the magnetized strip on credit cards? When someone asked what I knew about it, I told him that that happened only if the wallet was made from the skin of an electric eel. An acoustic eel won't do it.

Stephen

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:47 AM

'Electroacoustic' is how instrument dealers list their guitars, etc., that come complete with pick-ups. They are also likely to list pure acoustic instruments seperatly. Maybe sessions could be advertised with a similar distinction?

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 11:01 AM

Wow! Just harmlessly reading this fascinating thread to while away a Saturday evening at work, and I suddenly discover my (totally acoustic) music is 'gay' on two counts!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 07:50 AM

Noddy: you are quite right that dictionaries are useful, but for guidance only. Some dictionaries (eg OED) provide excellent definitions of how words were used in the past: it is continuously updated, but the meanings of certain words(eg acoustic and folk) mutate extremely fast, and their multiple shades of meaning vary far too quickly for the OED to keep up with.
   Other dictionaries(particularly in France I am told) try to be prescriptive: to say what words ought to mean, rather than defining them by usage. That approach is equally useless here. We are discussing just how "acoustic" is used now: to figure out just what it might mean if the poster outside the pub says "acoustic music night" for example. My guess, in those circumstances, is that the music would probably be people singing with guitars, amplified. But I wouldnt be sure. It might mean people having a session, acoustically(ie unamplified). Dictionaries are no help here, we need to establish usage. And if the current usage is too ambiguous to be informative, consider changing the usage, which is of course nearly impossible. Basically, one side or the other has to give in. The recent conroversy on the BBC's use of the word "gay" is a good case in point. Anone aged 50 or 60 plus in England will have experienced two conroversies about the meaning of this word, as it channge from "lighthearted, insouciant" to "homesexual", and is currently making the transition(among the young) to meaning "rubbish".

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 06:34 AM

Have you tried using a Dictionary???

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 08:52 AM

The introduction of Fender's Passport Sound Systems defined the truly portable PA system. Designed with simplicity, efficiency, and portability in mind, a Passport system is the ideal system for working musicians, acoustic groups, club and lounge performers, and corporate and educational presenters alike.

No comment.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Asia
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 12:38 AM

Yikes!

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 12:36 AM

Wot£?

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,Ritzbew
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 12:01 PM

If you follow the world of opera, there's been a bit of a ruckus recently about certain opera companies using amplification -- anathema to the old guard opera afficianadoes who believe opera should be totally unamplified. But the opera companies find that their audiences demand amplified music, because, they say, the Baby Boom generation is suffering hearing loss as they grow older, because Baby Boomers listened to so much over-amplified music as young adults. In reply, the old guard opera buffs claim that amplification will tempt singers to skimp on voice training and projection, becoming dependent on amplification (a claim that has a ring of truth to it). Most observers, however, agree that amplification will continue to spread in the world of opera. Audiences demand it, and opera companies that don't use amplification are seeing decreasing ticket sales. Want to bet that soon there will be "acoustic opera companies"? We'll see ads for "La Traviata Unplugged"!!

So my $.02 worth is this: like the opera world, we're stuck with amplified music now, because more people are suffering hearing loss now, because they've listened to too much over-amplified music. Sigh.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 10:46 AM

June Tabor was a libran as well.

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 07:09 PM

The goal of amplifying a band playing acoustic instruments should be to make them sound like themselves, but louder. This is called "transparency" -- ideally, the listener will forget that there is a sound system between the band and his ears, and just enjoy the music loud and clear.

My band has a fiddler doubling on mandolin, sometimes another fiddler doubling on melodeon, a female vocalist doubling on whistles, a percussionist, sometimes two, and myself singing and playing guitar and bouzouki. And just recently we added a bassist.

All these instruments and voices have different inherent volume levels. When the percussionist(s) get(s) going - completely unamplified - the singer can't hear herself very well, therefore she needs a microphone. When the melodeon is playing, the mandolin gets drowned out, therefore it needs to be plugged in (or mic'd).

The fiddler at the other end of the stage and the drummer need to hear my guitar clearly for cues, therefore it needs to be plugged in. The acoustic bass occupies too much of the same sound spectrum as the low end of the guitar, therefore we use electric bass which needs to be plugged in.

It's all about achieving a balance where a. the audience can hear every player, b. the players can all hear themselves, and c. the players can all hear each other.

It's not too hard to do if you have a good sound system, decent mics, and a modicum of taste and ear. And yes, I still call it acoustic music.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: JamesBerriman
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 06:41 PM

Greg,

I hope your idea for a real acoustic festival is a success.

It sounds like a great idea to me.

James

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 02:26 AM

The problem Keef, is that these sound engineers are very clever fellows, and they just 'know' what all those acoustic instruments should sound like (may have actually heard one once!) - so when they don't - they 'FIX' it... well & truly...

as in

"Your clock's not chiming any more?"
"Yup! I fixed it!"

Subject: RE: The meaning of 'acoustic'
From: Keef
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 02:14 AM

Ah...keyboards and bass guitars, tricky one that.
I did run a few "acoustic nights" and did try to please everyone (mistake). I think there is a place for genuinely acoustic music events.
An electronic piano even if played quietly through its inbuilt speakers is just not the same as a proper piano. Take a reasonable piano (in tune) add a competent player and a merry throng, pretty soon you will have a group around the piano belting out "dirty ditties" at the minimum. Electronic keyboards are more convenient, stay in tune etc but they don't seem to have that same magic.
I went to one show where a very accomplished player had brought along her priceless antique double bass, the sound engineer absolutely insisted on mikeing it up so that everyone could hear it better.
Louder does not always mean better. She may as well have been playing a $30 Taiwanese copy for all the tonal quality that survived the amplification process.