Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.

Subject: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Girl Friday
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 08:12 PM

Can anyone explain, in layman's terms to two non-dancers. What is the difference between: A/ a jig, B /a reel, c/ a hornpipe? They all sound much the same to us. Well, we are TONE DEAF LEOPARDS!!!

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 01:24 AM

Simply put it's timing,
double jigs = 6/8

single jigs = 6/8 or 12/8

hop or slip jigs = 9/8

reels = 4/4

hornpipes = 4/4 0r 2/4 with dotted notes

eric

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: mandotim
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 02:44 AM

Or, to put it another way;
Jigs; diddley diddley diddley diddley
Hornpipes: dum-ti dum-ti dum-ti
Reels: dadadadada

Slip jigs are used as ancient Irish pint-spilling dances, and as such should be avoided, in my view.
Tim

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: GUEST,Dazbo
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 10:05 AM

Hornpipes also come in 3/2.

To my mind it's not just the time signature that defines what it is but also the way it's played. An Italian Tarantella or Quadriglia are both in 6/8 and sound totally different from a Jig and polkas are in 4/4 but can sound rather different. I haven't got the skills (language or musical) to adequately discribe the differences but they're definitely there.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: s&r
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:00 AM

It's a bit of a nest of worms. There is not always agreement (as in most things musical) This site has some useful definitions.

Stu

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:09 AM

Yep, THAT SITE seems to say it all, so I'll just shut up !!!

Hello Sue,
Hello Trevor !

Sorry but going to Moore or Less club tonight, (FRI 9th June) may come over next Friday ...

Jo-Jo

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:43 AM

My Scottish Fiddler friend says - If you can say Rangers Celtic Rangers Celtic in time with the music , its a reel (4-4) and if you can say Liverpool Everton Liverpool Everton in time , its a Jig (6-8)
and Liverpool Everton Manchester Liverpool Everton Manchesteris a Slip jig in 9 - 8 !

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 12:29 PM

I agree with all the info above (except the suggestion to avoid slip-jigs) I have noticed, however, that when dancing is not involved, hornpipes are often played as reels, with no dotted feel to them. I suppose that a reel could also be played as a hornpipe, though I've never tried it.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 10:03 PM

"I have noticed, however, that when dancing is not involved, hornpipes are often played as reels, with no dotted feel to them."

Unless of course you're doing American contra dancing, in which case "stinkin' harnpipes" must be played as reels. :-)

Even when not dotted, a distinctive feature of hornpipes is their long phrases with distinctive final "punctuation".

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: JWB
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 10:32 PM

Another hallmark of the hornpipe is that you can stamp your foot to the last three beats of each section (A and B), since the dance had that foot stompin' built into it. Any traditional hornpipe has that "pum-pum-pum" ending to each part (don't you love posts that state absolutes with such authority, as if the poster really knows what s/he's talking about?).

Jerry

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 03:07 AM

Tricky devels all I find.

Jigs seem easy to get from the music because the tune comes in chunks of 3 - 123, 123 or Liverpool, Everton. Reels some less obvious and have many ways of going 1234 or diddle diddle, diddle diddle.

I play Mandola so three notes often means down up down, down up down. Easy to muck up going a bit quick. Reels for me go down up down up down up, and so easy to play a bit quick. Hornpipes with a ver clear long short long short seem easy to get from the music because once I have that pattern in my mind out pops the tune, then people fill them up with lots of extra notes. Slip jigs are indeed the Devils own but get to your brain like poteen.

All good stuff.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 06:42 AM

another guide to tune forms here complete with sound clips. This gives a slightly different perspective (NE England rather than Ireland in the earlier link) as local playing styles vary throughout the British Isles. I wouldn't be surprised if this was also true of N America.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 07:44 AM

Of course, I am sure that those damn speed freaks who love to go 'diddley diddley diddley diddley - dum-ti dum-ti dum-ti
- dadadadada' flat out as some sort of pseudo-technical demonstration have the faintest idea of the dances at all, and they would be impossible to dance to, anyway... but they're all 'having fun', I suppose... :-) (and there's SO MANY of them!)

I was once in the Mall, having some Shaitsu Massage, while a guy I had seen hanging around 'sessions' was busking with the whistle. I could vaguely recognise some parts of some of the tunes - after about 20 mins, it hit me like a thunderbolt...

He would take a big breath, start the tune, and play flatout, ignoring all phrasing until he ran out of breath, then wherever that was, in the middle of a phrase, or whatever, stop for a breath, and thusly continue on - and on - and on...

He COULD play VERY fast though! (MUCH faster than I!!!)... AND he was enjoying himself - at least, I think he was - I didn't see any hair shirts or flaggelation whips, etc...

;-)

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: GUEST,catlin
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 11:06 AM

Mandotim, you are funny, sick and twisted and I love your descriptions. How would you describe a strathspey, out of idle curiosity?

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 02:32 PM

Jerry, that's exactly what I meant by the "distinctive final 'punctuation'" of a phrase. :-)

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Scoville
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 02:37 PM

Americans almost always play hornpipes as reels, unless they're really trying to play a "proper" hornpipe.

Keep this going; I need all the help I can get. I'm dulcimer-fied and, since jigs and hornpipes are played with the same strum, I can never tell if a tune is a hornpipe or just a jig that doesn't have a whole lot of notes. Hornpipes are OK on dulcimer. Jigs are often a pain in the neck, but not impossible (you have to do 3 notes for every back-and-forth strum, which is a little weird).

So, what about strathspey v. schottische? I thought I knew a schottische--I personally can only play one but my Midwestern friends are big into them--until I got a CD with some tunes labeled "strathspeys" and, while the strathspeys don't seem quite as heavily rhythmic, I'm confused all over again.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: GUEST,Sharon G
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 04:19 PM

Here's my 2 cents worth:

To help sort out jig rhythm I use pineapple, pineapple
For reel rhythm, watermelon, watermelon

I don't have a good mnemonic for hornpipe rhythm...yet...

Jigs are further subdivided, at least in Irish music

There are single jigs, which sound more like "humpty-dumpty". There are also slides, which are a subcategory of single jigs and often written in 12/8 instead of 6/8. No good mnemonic there yet either...

And slip jigs can also be divided into the ones that sound more like double jigs (pineapple, pineapple, pineapple) and the ones that are more like single jigs (humpty-dumpty-dumpity)

That last group of slip jigs are sometimes called hop jigs, but not among Irish step dancers who have a completely confusing alternate set of terms for all the dances except reels and hornpipes.

Sharon

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Pauline L
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 11:03 PM

The simplest answer to the original question is the rhythms, as discussed above. Obviously, there is more to playing music than to counting notes. Foolestroupe, I like your description of the guy in the Mall who just kept playing notes one after the other until he ran out of breath. He is a teacher's nightmare. The "feel" of jigs, reels, and hornpipes comes from their respective dances, but there are other considerations. When playing concert style, the rhythm and the ornaments can be quite different from those played in dance style. For concert (not necessarily a "real concert," but listening instead of dancing), instrumentalists can take a lot of liberties with rhythm that we wouldn't dare do for dancers. For dancing, you have to play the beats steadily and somewhat emphatically, but you can take liberties in between the beats. If the dancers are up in the air, you've got to bring them down to the floor at the right time. You can make some subtle changes, though. When I see and hear a really good fiddler (like Steve Hickman) playing for a dance, I can face him, keep my back to the dancers, and still know what the dancers are doing differently according to the way the fiddler is playing. When the fiddler plays smooth, connected notes (often slurred, dotted slurred, or legato), the dancers glide more. When the fiddler plays with little hesitations (staccato, dotted slurs) between the notes, the dancers use a bouncier step. (This is hard to describe in words. It's much better to listen and watch.)

Likewise, the strathspey is best understood by listening to the music than by reading descriptive words. In Celtic music, two consecutive eighth notes are generally not played for the same length of time. One or the other can be a little shorter, then the next one a little longer, but they still add up to one beat. Exaggerate the rhythm a bit, and you have a dotted eight note followed (or proceeded) by a sixteenth note. Play the dotted rhythm for two consecutive pairs of notes, and that's a strathspey. The dance movement for a strathspey is smooth and gliding, and that's how the music is played. There are some subtle matters of style, of course. Strathspeys can be played in dance style or concert style.

These are some of the tings that make playing music so much fun, the Mall musician notwithstanding. If you just play one note after another, all with mathematical precision, that's noteplaying, not musicmaking. Music making is fun.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Noreen
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 03:34 PM

Hi, there is a series of earlier threads which may be of use to you, with lots of input of practical help and theory.

They were all from a couple of years ago, started by Fionn and myself as I remember, and I thought they were all entitled "What is..." such as the following:
What is a Slip Jig?

Can't seem to find the others by searching for that phrase though. Can anyone help?

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 06:43 PM

Hi Noreen. Here's an even older one: Light jigs v treble jigs. Which reminds me, has anyone heard of Mick Lowe (the Prof) lately? He it is who bears the responsibility for introducing me to Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 08:27 PM

"When the fiddler plays smooth, connected notes (often slurred, dotted slurred, or legato), the dancers glide more. When the fiddler plays with little hesitations (staccato, dotted slurs) between the notes, the dancers use a bouncier step."

Thank you - I now know I'm not the only person who notices that - Thought I was going insane... :-)


"In Celtic music, two consecutive eighth notes are generally not played for the same length of time. One or the other can be a little shorter, then the next one a little longer, but they still add up to one beat."

This is of course the hassle when printing sheet music.

There is a concept that Classically Trained Musicians - at least those who go on to specialise in 'Early Music' (i.e. before the age of 'Classical Music!) have to come to grips with - Musica Ficta.

This nightmare states simply that Music is not played 'exactly' as written down on the sheet! There are ASS-U-MEptions that Everybody Just Knows!. Yes, we KNOW that a semi-quaver is half the length of a quaver, which is half the length of a crotchet, etc. That's the simplistic theory for printing the dots.

But, in the Musical Real World, we 'bend' things - in some musical genres, it's called 'Swing' - so Swing Players didn't invent the concept! Every genre/style has differing 'Musica Ficta Rules', including 'Celtic'.

Early Music Students also have to cope with the fact that each localised 'School of Music' had their own rules, many of which were often not written down in documents that survived, as 'everybody just knows'... a common problem that archaeologists have to deal with... and some of these rules involved 'Performance Improvisation' - something similar to 'Ornamentation' as used in Celtic Music... :-)

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Paul Burke
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 04:32 AM

"If you can say Rangers Celtic Rangers Celtic in time with the music , its a reel (4-4) and if you can say Liverpool Everton Liverpool Everton in time , its a Jig (6-8)"

And if you can say Korabãt mi na v'zdyšna vãzglavnica e pãlen sãs zmiorki in time with the music, it's probably a Bulgarian Petrunino horo.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Girl Friday
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 06:23 PM

A-a-a-rgh!!! What have I started ? Seem to get it from the first reply. At least muimblin len gets it. I am totally confused still. al;l this stuff about football. Is there something on at the moment? Carry on chaps you've taken this discussion seriously. I'll just sit back and read.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 07:56 PM

Well, Girl Friday,

As I said, I can understand your lack of clarity, I too have been witness to too many 'session msuos' who cannot seem to display any clarity of difference in execution of them too..
:-)

Fusball?

'Harry Kewell, Harry Kewell!'

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: mandotim
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 03:23 AM

To foolestroupe; how do you work out the speed of dadadada just from reading it? Are you a speed reader? The issue of speed is an important one; there are three categories, from my experience; the first is 'geriatric country dancing', which is very, very slow indeed, with lots of pauses so people can go to the toilet. The second is 'rugby club ceilidh', played fast enough so that lots of large hairy men in kilts can collide at sufficient velocity to satisfy their urges for combat, whilst shouting 'yowp' at the top of their voices. The third is 'show-off session' speed, where everyone plays as fast as they can, leaving most of the notes out and laughing at the bodhran player whose arm is paralysed by lactosis.
Guest Catlin; a strathspey is obviously something unpleasant that vets do in Scotland.
Tim

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Paul Burke
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 03:35 AM

Well Tim you must go to some funny sessions. The trick is to play it fast, but sound as though you are playing it slowly. Real music, especially Irish, is just lazily executed grace notes conjoined by pints of beer.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: alison
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 03:54 AM

Sharon, here's some fruit for your hornpipe

juicy mango,juicy mango,juicy mango,juicy mango,
juicy mango,juicy mango,BIG ICE CREAM!

that gets you your fruit and the three last beats in the phrase.

and for a slip jig "jelly & icecream & chocolate sauce."

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: pavane
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 07:48 AM

What about all the triplets you get in hornpipes? And the 4th bar is often a single note?


Would you have perhaps

Liverpool,juicy mango,juicy mango,juicy mango, beam
Everton,juicy mango,juicy mango,BIG ICE CREAM!

(was difficult to find the right word to rhyme with Cream)

(And hornpipes were ORIGINALLY in 3/2 or 6/4...)

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Snuffy
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 09:33 AM

Morris men will still dance 1-2-3-hop 1-2-3-hop whether the tune is in 6/8 or 4/4, because for dancers jigs and reels both have two beats to the bar: the number of notes is not necessarily relevant.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:19 AM

Good dancers can quite happily dance to stuff with very odd emphasis or phrasing. If you and your set are confident with what you're doing, it's good fun. It's also much easier with musicians who are dancers...


The issue of speed is an important one; there are three categories, from my experience; the first is 'geriatric country dancing', which is very, very slow indeed, with lots of pauses so people can go to the toilet. The second is 'rugby club ceilidh', played fast enough so that lots of large hairy men in kilts can collide at sufficient velocity to satisfy their urges for combat, whilst shouting 'yowp' at the top of their voices.

Certainly for Scottish, slower is preferred for displays, competions, and most of our social dancing. Most evenings start off slow, and speed up as the dancers tire out. Breakneck speed is enjoyable, but you lose any refinement.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: pavane
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:19 AM

Yes, but it's

1__2_3__hop for 6/8, and 1_2_3_hop for 4/4

Also, Beaux of London City (Adderbury) is in 9/8

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Kaleea
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 01:59 PM

Yeah, you can talk & fuss, & type of fruit & even listen to tunes. But, till one experiences the dancing (even if one only watches) to live Music, one will not feel-thus truly understand-the nuances of the various tune types. They are, after all, dances.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: alison
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 02:41 AM

hahaha

you want triplets?

suck-on-a mango, suck-on-a mango, suck-on-a mango, etc

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Paul Burke
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 03:26 AM

Nonsense, Kaleea. You're being too restrictive. People use tunes for all kinds of things, dancing being only one of them. Just as a tune for singing will often (usually?) deviate from danceability, so might a tune for its own sake. In Irish music at least, the listening qualities- which might include speed, emphasis, rhythm, and decoration amongst other things- might make that particular incarnation of the tune difficult or impossible to dance to.

Perhaps this is why Irish music players of an earlier generation used to refer to English music as "humpty-humpty".

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 04:08 AM

No, that was mostly just snobbery. English musicians in those days tended to play for the benefit of the dancers rather than to show off. Scottish players of Jimmy Shand's generation come in for similarly snide criticism. They could play fast if they felt like it, but they didn't; because that wasn't what the music was for.

Kaleea isn't talking nonsense; you can only arrive at a proper understanding of a dance tune by accepting that it was made to do a job. It was designed for a purpose. Ignore that, and you may end up with a superficially impressive performance piece, but it will have lost its soul. True elegance, and beauty, retains its original functionality. Without that functionality, it risks becoming effete and sterile; like a beautifully ornamented false pocket that you can't put anything in.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: pavane
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 04:12 AM

Many dance tunes, of course, were adapted from songs.

On the other hand, perhaps the songs were put to dance tunes in the first place?

Is it chicken and egg time?

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Paul Burke
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 04:21 AM

Malcolm, now YOU are saying "my use for tunes is the only one". Showing off? Oi! Mustn't put yourself forward, eh? Losing its soul? A proper understanding?

No, more nonsense. You want the music to do one thing, other people want it to do another. It may be that you don't understand what other people are doing with it, but it's as daft to insist that you have to be able to dance to "traditional" music as it is to insist that you should be able to dance to a a Dowland fantasie.

Chicken and egg? Amyd the karole for to daunse.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Noreen
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 06:59 AM

People were making music and dancing before there were instruments with which to do clever technical stuff.

The first 'instruments' in this context would probably be percussion, something with which to keep a rhythm going for dancing while a tune was sung. Traditional tunes have developed from this; the rhythm for the dance being the most important thing, with extra clever stuff added to the tunes as instruments were invented with capability to do so.

No problem with playing clever stuff in a session or as a party piece, but as said above, the heart of the tune is its dance rhythm. It is not nonsense to say that you understand the tune fully when it's being danced to.

Just thinking- Sean Maguire and Jean Carignan could do incredible 'clever stuff' with tunes, and make you want to get up and dance!

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Paul Burke
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:11 AM

I see I'm in a minority of one here, but I still hold that the dancers really couldn't care less what tune is being played, as long as the number of bars is right and the beat comes through good and strong. At least, only a few ceilidh bands I've heard are worth listening to just for the music.

No, to me it's social music, and the purpose is seldom dancing. I can count the number of times I've seen anyone dance in a session on fingers and toes, and the number of times the dancing has been worth it on toes alone.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Marje
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 11:46 AM

Thank you, Malcolm, for expressing so well something that I've felt intuitively but couldn't explain in words. I always enjoy tunes more if they keep the feeling of the dance, even if they're being played at sessions or concerts where dancing isn't remotely likely.

The speeding-up of dance tunes to try to impress listeners or dancers (or other players) can have quite the opposite of the intended effect: beyond a certain speed, some beats and notes will simply get missed out by many of the players, and if there's a dance going on, the dancers will actually slow down because they'll only be moving to every other beat, and they'll plod instead of dancing. The tune just becomes heavy and graceless - the only benefit is that at a session, it's all over pretty quickly.

Marje

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: pavane
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 12:27 PM

You must go to different sessions to me then. However fast the tune, it always seems to last forever, as they play it through umpteen times.

I suppose it is done to get plenty of practice.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 06:45 PM

... because they aren't really listening to what they are doing, themselves, my teacher would have said...

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: GUEST,Sharon G
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 02:45 PM

Alison,
Thanks for the "juicy mango" nmenonic, although it doesn't quite fit the hornpipe rhythm I can hear in my head at the moment.

BTW- my husband's comment after first watching someone dance an Irish hornpipes, was that they were invented to kill cockroaches (it had a very noticeable "stamp" step in it).

Sharon (fiddler & dancer's mom)

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: pavane
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 05:51 AM

No, that was a Spanish one

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: s&r
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 02:41 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Mo the caller
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 04:07 AM

Paul Burke doesn't go to the same dances that I go to. But then I'm one of the geriatric social dancers, and some of the tunes we use are hauntingly beautiful. And if the dance is a repetitive longways dance you can enjoy the counter-melodies and variations from the band. But some of our tunes are from the classics, or were traditional songs 300 years ago.
Ceilidhs are different beasts but don't have to be just rhythm.
Then there is the traditional barn dance repertoire, maybe the faster tunes are not so much danced as they were.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Mo the caller
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 07:40 AM

Sharon, someone trying to teach us a rant suggested a chant of
SQUASH that fly
SQUASH that fly

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 07:31 PM

S & R

Thank you for the posting link.

I got lost in their web for nearly two weeks exploring and learning and practicing.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: CapriUni
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 02:42 PM

Hi. Just trying to figure out a tune rhythm that would fit the vague lyrics floating 'round my head.

If I were writing about fruits and football cities, it would be much easier!

But hang on, a minute: A double jig is 6/8, and single jig is 12/8?!

I think this counts as an example of "counter-intuitive" (which fits nicely into the jig rhythm, conveniently; unfortunately, I'm not writing about that, either).

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: CapriUni
Date: 25 Sep 07 - 10:31 PM

Hello, Again...

In line with mnemonic phrases for the different dance and tune rhythms, I have a puzzle. I have a saying in Irish Gaelic, that I'd like to use as the basis for a tune, but I can't decide whether it should be a jig, hornpipe or strathspey by my ear alone. Could someone please lend a more practiced ear?

The saying is: "Is buaine focal ná toice an tsaoil" (A word is more enduring than worldly wealth).

A .wav file of a native speaker saying the line is here.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: Declan
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 03:27 AM

I'd have said that fits a double jig rhythm well.

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: azfiddle
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 12:37 PM

Hi there,
I think it would fit a jig rhythm as well, with just a tiny bit of tweaking.

Sharon (formerly guest, SharonG)

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: CapriUni
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 02:50 PM

Thanks, Declan and SharonG (And welcome to membership!)

I'll download a few jig and double jig midis, and see if I can fit my possible lyrics into the tunes.

It's got me wondering if a nation's dance tune tend to match the rythm of the native tongue, because that's what sounds "right" to the listeners,

hmmmm...

Subject: RE: Reels,Jigs, Hornpipes etc.
From: the button
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 03:39 PM

My Scottish Fiddler friend says - If you can say Rangers Celtic Rangers Celtic in time with the music , its a reel (4-4) and if you can say Liverpool Everton Liverpool Everton in time , its a Jig (6-8)
and Liverpool Everton Manchester Liverpool Everton Manchesteris a Slip jig in 9 - 8 !

^^^^ Tell your Scottish fiddler friend he's genius. :)

The best & simplest way I've ever heard it explained.