Bob Dylan's records

Subject: Bob Dylan's records
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:18 AM

Having lost touch with Bob Dylan's recorded work since the early days - it would be interesting to read some informed opinions on and recommendations for, which of his later records folk would advise me to listen to - in order to catch up - and which ones they would advise me to avoid?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 06:00 AM

I think the latest "Love and Theft" is more than worth hearing. "oh Mercy", with Daniel Llanois has some excellent songs. Probably my favourite is "Infidels" of 1983. It is like the Stones, with scorching lyrics (imagine that!) and a better rhythm section (Sly Dunbar and Robbie Shakespeare). Mark Knopfler produced and arranged it. The album is also graced by the playing of Mick Taylor. For a fan of the Stones and Bob Dylan like myself, it is a record to die for.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Peter T.
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 08:06 AM

I don't think anything after "Blood on the Tracks" is worth most of what went before it.   The most recent stuff is a weird attempt at reproducing styles of the 1920's and 30's, which seems to have captured the imagination of a lot of people, but it is really tedious to listen to, and the lyric writing is second rate.

The best thing after that are the official "bootlegs" like Biograph.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 08:26 AM

Look out for the song Every Grain of Sand which is beautiful song from the Shot of Love album from about 1981. Emmylou Harris does a great version of it on The Wrecking Ball.
ifor

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 09:34 AM

It would help us if you indicated what you like about the early recordings - the fact that he was solo? the social comment? the verve and energy? the clear background in traditional songs? the later drift into 'poetry' that was arresting but essentially nonsense?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:11 AM

Peter and I are in agreement here not surprisingly. Not everything before "Blood on the Tracks" was great but it was all much better than what came later. That said however...............

To answer your question directly Roger, I don't think you can "sample" Dylan. Where many go through life in an endless stream, Dylan leaps here and there, to this and that, at this time and later, before and after...........It may all make sense when you put the bio with it, but musically it seems there is no method, just the madness of genius.

The best advice I could give anyone wanting to get a feel for Dylan is to figure on spending a few weeks on the project and then check out the albums in order and simply listen. I'm serious here. You can't "sample" Dylan.

I love Paul Simon as a writer of wonderful songs and one of the great both tunesmiths and wordsmiths we have known. But I could give you a Simon Sampler and it would be clear what he was about and when and how. One generally leads to the next. Dylan just doesn't work that way. Even from the serious affionados of all things Bob like Little Hawk, the best you will get will be a weakened mishmash. That is nothing against Little Hawk at all. I just don't think you can do it...(:<))

Just my lame ass opinion.................

Spaw

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:03 PM

It would help us if you indicated what you like about the early recordings - the fact that he was solo? the social comment? the verve and energy? the clear background in traditional songs?

Where he is coming from as a musician is the same place as many of us - so wherever his music goes to - should be interesting. But perhaps for me - it is the best examples of his songwriting that is of most interest.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:14 PM

Dylan Discography

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Peter T.
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 01:23 PM

I think that his spontaneousness turned into carelessness. His early work has an energy that carries you over the occasional slipshod moments (e.g. some of his early lyrics have the wrong tenses and singulars are really plurals and so on). The ratio of carelessness just keeps increasing over time. He just starts wandering around and doing lamer versions of earlier lyrics and these pastiches of other work, and it is just not charged with the same dynamism.

Not that it matters that much: I am glad he keeps going, and there are occasional flashes of fine work that are way above what other people are doing.   He is still a complete genius. It does suggest that there are problems with writing rock/pop at his age -- Paul Simon has just produced a dreadful album, and Paul McCartney continues to produce not much (though it might be interesting to see what he comes up with now his life has crashed).

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 01:25 PM

Roger, when you say you've lost touch with Dylan since "the early days"....that means till when? What was the last Dylan album you realy focused on? That would help with the recommendations.

I think Dylan's writing up through "John Wesley Harding" had a certain magic that it lost after that, and I think it was mainly because he was young...and in a different state of mind. He wasn't standing outside himself yet and looking at himself AS Bob Dylan. That's my theory. So the stuff he was writing was happening in a completely natural fashion. That's the innocence of youth.

When you start second-guessing yourself it gets harder and harder to write naturally anymore. I think he got hemmed in by who he was, other people's idea of who he was, and the pressure of all that, plus the family stuff.

Still, some of the later stuff is great, and the magic still comes through now and then.

Even on the Dylan albums "to avoid", there are usually one or two songs, maybe three, that are pretty special...floating forlornly amidst a sea of stuff that definitely isn't.

I find all Dylan albums worth a listen now and then...although...I have to say I have a really hard time relating to "Love and Theft". It's good musically, but I just don't relate to it much.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 01:38 PM

LH, I think "Love and Theft" works as a series of character sketches. Taken from that angle, some of it is very funny too.
I don't know how I forgot to mention "Blood on the Tracks". I think that really was Dylan's defining moment. On most of the other albums, there are usually a few tracks which I don't need to repeat.
W. Somerset Maugham wrote, "Only a mediocre writer is always at his best."

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 01:48 PM

Great W.S. Maugham quote! LOL!

I haven't listened enough to "Love and Theft" to really know what's up with it. Just don't spend the time listening to recorded music that I used to. I'm sure there's something there...

"Blood On The Tracks" is a simply superb album. It doesn't have that keen shiny edge of youth that the earlier stuff does, but it's a masterpiece. That's grown-up Bob at his very best.

"Infidels" is a really powerful album. I like "Shot of Love", some great stuff on there. I simply LOVE "Street Legal", an album that is generally not thought well of by North American Dylan fans for whatever reason. I also like "Empire Burlesque", another that is generally panned by critics and fans. "Oh Mercy" is quite good. The two trad albums from the early 90's ("Good As I Been To You" & "World Gone Wrong") are great.

The official Bootleg Series collections are all well worth getting.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 02:20 PM

Yes I suppose it was after John Wesley Harding. I saw him live performing the Nashville Skyline stuff and except for odd bits and pieces, I have not really listened to any of the recorded work since then.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:31 PM

As others have mentioned, it depends on what you consider the early days. There are a lot of people who had no use for his stuff when he went electric. Their loss in my opinion. While I believe that Blood On The Tracks is his masterpiece, there has been some very good to excellent stuff since. It's hard to believe that it came out thirty years ago. I enjoyed most of Desire from a musical standpoint, not so much lyrically. As an example, I really like Isis, but it makes no sense as a story.

Peter T., I know that you have said that you did not like Time Out Of Mind. I think that it is a wonderful album. I think that songs like Not Dark Yet, Million Miles, Cold Irons Bound, Standing In The Doorway are all very well written, both musically and lyrically. I think that Dirt Road Blues is an excellent tribute to some of Bob's Sun Records influences. I could live without the Stream of Conciousness epic "Highlands". For the most part I like Daniel Lanois' production, the band is great. It is not his best album, but I think that it is a mistake to expect the equal of BOTT, Blonde On Blonde, Bringing It All Back Home or Hwy 61 Revisited. These and others from that era are simply Bob at his best, which set a standard that in my opinion has never been come close to by any other artist. It's not fair to expect Bob meet that standard either.

I like 'Spaw's idea of spending a few weeks on the Project.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:40 PM

Here's an idea. Get the first Bootleg Series boxed set...or the set called Biograph. Listen to all of it. That will give you a feel for some of different periods Mr Dylan went through...and then you can check out some individual albums from those periods.

"Time Out Of Mind" - I think it's a pretty good album...but I find it kind of depresssing. Not one I am inclined to listen to often. "Highlands" is okay with me. I love the part about the encounter with the waitress...it's hilarious.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:51 PM

I think "Isis" is one of Dylan's classic loser character songs. The penultimate verse, when he is trying to act cool, to impress his bird, is hilarious. In reality he is crawling. The naive, half witted character is a wimp trying to act macho. I have always thought it was a hoot.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 06:04 PM

Heh! Good interpretation, alanabit. I love that verse too, and it is hilarious indeed. Isis comes across as a very powerful woman, and the little outlaw is doing his best to strike a tough guy pose and give the impression he can take her or leave her...while she really holds all the power.

Dylan loves dreaming up outlaw stories like that.

There are some other interesting images in that song too...like the symbolism about darkness and light, dividing line, post on the right, washing clothes down, etc...

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: David C. Carter
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 08:15 PM

Dylan seems to me,to be someone who has produced his best work within a situation of organised chaos.He walks into the studio with his songs,some are finished,some aren't,a few have tunes,others don't.Each one of them could go any which way,depending on the day,the mood he's in,and his fellow musicians.He worked with Tom Wilson,and then with Bob Johnston,two producers who were perceptive to what Dylan himself,was still trying to find.They coaxed from him,drew from him what they saw was the full pottential of each song.The musicians are inspired by what they are hearing,they are bouncing off each other,and in turn,they are pushing Dylan.There's a great feeling of interaction and they are very aware,that they are creating something totally new.After this period,producers and musicians become pretty heteroclite,some know what he's about,others seem to be just doing what they would normally do,backing somebody in the studio!Theres no empathy with the songs themselves,it's cold,crisp,they are each playing in their own little space,not adding,building each song.Then along comes Daniel Lanois and they come up with-Oh Mercy.Not the greatest of Dylan's work,but a lot of ambience,warmth etc.Some indifferent stuff in between time,then comes -Time Out Of Mind.Lanois is once again producing.Although it brings me down somewhat,it has some great songs,some already mentioned by others here,it's very"on the edge".They are all building,creating,they haven't heard these songs before,but they know that something special is going on.You can hear that coming through.In some of his lesser albums,there are usually a couple of gems,lurking in there somewhere.Dylan is not the innocent party in all this.He appears pretty lax at times about who he records with,as if it's not his number one priority.Who Knows!I heard that he's got a new studio album coming out in August.I guess we'll be talking about it then.
David

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 09:02 PM

David,

I agree. One just has to listen to some of the alternate versions of well known songs to see just how much of his stuff was not ready until he got to the studio.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 09:18 PM

His number one priority seems to be live performance. He has done an amazing amount of that since 1974, and my impression is that he does it because he likes doing it (although he has an off night now and then). Live performance allows a spontaneity that is very seldom, if ever, found in a recording studio. Dylan's best studio material may have been done with the same sense of electric immediacy that is found in live concerts.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Peter T.
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:10 PM

I kind of like "Not Dark Yet". The later songs that have some of the old magic are the simple ones like "Every Grain of Sand", "Dark Eyes", "Shooting Star". No one else writes like that.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:19 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with those choices, Peter. I also like some of the bigger later songs, such as "Jokerman", "Blind Willie McTell", "Brownsville Girl", "Angelina", "Changing of the Guards", "Senor", "I and I", to name a few of them. "One More Cup of Coffee" from the album "Desire" is also a great song.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: David C. Carter
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:54 AM

Little Hawk,
You just named every"later"song that I also like.I also agree about live performances.I've only ever seen him once where he quite obviously wasn't on form,that was with Tom Petty.Unfortunately for my wife, it was the first time ever that she got to see him live.But he came back,as he always does!
Cheers,

David

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:41 AM

I don't think we have ever done a thread on "Biograph" (or any Dylan albums for that matter) although much of its content has come up from time to time.   It has a really interesting(?) grouping of songs.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's records
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 11:43 AM

I don't listen to Biograph much, but I incessantly listen to "The Bootleg Series, Volumes 1-3 from Columbia. It is completely astonishing -- the range of the man -- and has the great virtue of having the acoustic Blood on the Tracks songs on it -- man.

Blind Willie McTell is great. One of my slight claims to fame is that I introduced it to Rick Fielding, who started playing it in his last concerts, though he never recorded it, damn it.

yours,

Peter T.