Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?

Subject: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST,Bo in KY
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 01:07 AM

Being relatively new to playing instrumental Celtic music, I keep coming across these musical monikers that I can't seem to find a definition for. Pardon my ignorance, but what do these terms mean? And what is the difference between them? For that matter, what is a "slip jig" or a "strathspey"? After plunking out the tunes on the piano and working them out on tinwhistle, I still can't discern what makes each type unique. Help?
Thanks in advance.


Peace......
Bo

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: s&r
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 02:42 AM

see the refreshed (recent) thread on this page

Stu

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: open mike
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 02:53 AM

timing...
jig is 6/8
reel is 2/4 or 4/4
horpipe has a dotted eighth note
waltz is 3/4

and the dance that you do to each has
its own differences too.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 07:35 AM

the other thread

As I see it (as a drummer) the hornpipe is a hestitated rhythm -
Jigs and reels are a mystery - I just hit the drum, but by the comments I get the natural place I choose to hit is the right one.

Jigs, Reels and Hornpipes are dance rhythms - if you tried to dance a hornpipe with the kicks in the right place it would help you. I am a keen ceilidh dancer so maybe the dancing helps on all rhythms. It is fun.

Last Sat at the Minchinhampton Folk Festival the caller called an Waltze and they started to play a Waltze but someone in the band/caller changed it and we had a Schottische rhythm. It not only was less fun but the rhythm is not as good for beginners. Which re-iterates my point about them being dance rhythms.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 02:43 PM

Jig - 6/8 time - goes | Diddle-e diddle-e | Diddle-e diddle-e |

Slip jig - 9/8 time - goes | Diddle-e diddle-e diddle-e | Diddle-e diddle-e diddle-e |

You could do the same for the rest, but the best thing is to buy a CD that has the type of tune labelled next to the tune title. Many CDs of Irish music do this. Listen to the rhythm - that's always the thing - that goes with the type of tune. The rhythm is most important because these are essentially types of dance music, even if they are played to be listened to or at a pace no one could dance to!

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 10:56 PM

Yo! Having gone into this rather exhaustively so very recently, can't we keep it to one thread?

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 07:25 AM

Jigs are easy. Reels are faster. ;-)

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 12:24 PM

a reel is an alligator.
alligator alligator aligator..

a jig is a crocodile
crocodile crocodile crocodile

its best to listen and to dance to tunes to get the idea.

strathspey is 4/4 time but slower than reels and a strong emphasis on the 1 and less on the 3

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: captainbirdseye
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 07:56 PM

jigs are in 6,/8,slip jigs 9/8 reels 4 /4hornpipes4/4.jig dancing speed betwween112and118.reels between 200 and 210 hornpipes are dotted rhythm or triplet rhythm speed 144 to148.CaptainBirdseye

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 07:34 PM

?

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Compton
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 09:05 PM

My rule of thumb is...If you can gallop to it...it's probably a Jig !!
Hornpipes are more of a worry....A slow hornpipe you do a slow walk to...a quick hornpipe is as near a reel as damn it!

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:22 AM

But the most gallopy dance I know is Cumberland square. We dance that to "My Love She's but a Lassie" and that's no jig.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:41 AM

Aside from the timing, a slip jig is danced to by women only.

Michelle

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 07:10 AM

you're all not much help. Damn you, Damn you all!!!!!

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 07:26 AM

What exactly is your problem? These are nice helpful people .........

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Stu
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 07:40 AM

"Jigs and reels are a mystery - I just hit the drum, but by the comments I get the natural place I choose to hit is the right one."

So if I get this correct, you don't understand what you're playing? Is this a bodhran you're hitting by any chance?

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST,squeezeboxkc at work
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 07:42 AM

the celtic session reel is that tune that starts at 8.00 ish and goes on at speed until closing time.
otherwise go to few dances and feel what the music tells your feet to do

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 08:02 AM

Have a look here

http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tunefind

stick any title you know to be a Jig, hornpipe or reel in the search box, then click on the midi version & give it a listen.

Then you'll have a better idea of what we're on about

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 08:57 AM

For gods sake, just listen! Listen, listen, listen.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Tootler
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 11:44 AM

Mr Happy,

that link is a great place for finding tunes if you know what you are looking for but totally useless for getting a feel of the tunes. To get a feel of how traditional tunes are played, you have to listen to real musicians playing them, either live or on recordings.

To Guest Bo in KY:

If you know people locally who play traditional music then go and talk to them and get them to play tunes for you. The next best bet is CDs. There are plenty CDs available, which are devoted to traditional dance music and which often have titles like "Jigs Reels and Hornpipes". Get hold of a few and do as Sorcha says - Listen, listen, listen. By listening, you get a feel for the way in which the tunes are played and you can try and copy them with your whistle.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 01:02 PM

Peadar Mercier, bodrán player in the Chieftains in the early years, explained that to fix the jig rhythm in his mind, he used the mnemonic phrase "rashers and eggs, and lashings of sausages".

By default, the term "jig" in Irish music is understood by default to mean a double jig, for which the rhythm is 6/8. Let's just steer clear of single jigs to avoid confusion ;-)

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 01:04 PM

Apologies for the redundant repetitification of "by default" which I can't find the wa

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 01:05 PM

...y to edit out. Oh dear, now it's become three posts!

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 01:36 PM

Folks:

You might note that this thread was re-opened a year and a half after Bo in KY's inquiry by a nameless "damn you"-spouting Guest, and that a more complete thread on the topic already exists here.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Slag
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 03:46 PM

Weeeeeeeeeeell, Have you ever been to an Irishman's shanty, where the women are few but whisky's a plenty?!

As for jig, just saying the above about as quick as you can will put you right on it!

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Nick E
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 09:00 PM

"Folks:

You might note that this thread was re-opened a year and a half after Bo in KY's inquiry by a nameless "damn you"-spouting Guest, and that a more complete thread on the topic already exists here. "...


I do not get why so many mucaters have such a banjo up their a@$es about people asking questions that may have been discussed before. Should everyone search the archives before asking?
Could there be ANY NEW INFO? It is nice to be able to read the threads but get off your sanctimonious soap box and just let the site roll.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 01:57 PM

Right, but it Guest's inquiry didn't really invite much courtesy, and if you add your new and exciting commentary to an existing thread, it's a lot easier to find what you need around here.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST,caileag
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 04:10 PM

Well .. as a guest who stumbled onto this thread don't I feel all warm and fuzzy and welcome now... geeezzz.... No worries... I won't muck up your site in by expounding on any of the above rythumn theories.... I'l just slink off elsewhere

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 09:28 PM

Does anyone have an answer in music lingo???

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 08:50 AM

The answer was given in music lingo above but I don't think it's adequate. Better explanations have been given elsewhere, such as on the session website http://www.thesession.org/ in fact here http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16653 , which is why people are sometimes asked to search archives. Why should we struggle to give a new definition here when we know that there's a perfectly good definition elsewhere that can be found with a quick search? That's not to say we should be rude about saying so, rather that we shouldn't be abused for bothering to answer the question in the first place.

I hope the above link answers your question.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: clueless don
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 09:13 AM

Back on 23 Jun 06 - 06:41 AM , Michelle/LilyFestre wrote

Aside from the timing, a slip jig is danced to by women only.

While that is mostly true in contemporary competitive Irish step dancing, there is an adult category of competition (intended for dancers who didn't start until they were adults, but also including dancers who danced as kids/teens and then didn't compete for awhile), and in that category both males and females dance slip jig. In my own competition days, the slip jig was one of my favorite dances.

Don

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 02:05 PM

But the most gallopy dance I know is Cumberland square. We dance that to "My Love She's but a Lassie" and that's no jig
   yeah but its often danced to atholl highlanders too[a jig]
its even better if you go from my love shes a lassie,to atholl.,the change is best after once through the dance,I know that and i am just a musician not even a caller.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 04:11 PM

What about a polka?

Rog

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST,highlandman at work
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 04:16 PM

>a reel is an alligator.
>alligator alligator aligator..
>
>a jig is a crocodile
>crocodile crocodile crocodile

Doesn't work here in the Southeastern US.
Crocodile is four syllables. ;-)

-Glenn

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST,english piper
Date: 15 May 09 - 04:19 PM

Hornpipes are english solo dance tunes with a "breakdown" after the sixth bar which is usually uniformed at the end. Traditionaly, they should have a bobbing or bouncing feel to them like that of a ship's deck. The bodhran rythmn to it is like a heartbeat and they may remind you of sailors. Modern Scottish hornpipes have a heavy techno feel with their 2/4 timing in bagpipes and they make good intricate marches.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 May 09 - 06:29 PM

Who on earth would add percussion to a hornpipe for dancing? The point is surely that the FEET are the percussion.

BTW the oldest 9/8 dance tunes in the British Isles are English, and we have dance instructions for many of them from the 18th century - they are all set dances for both sexes.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST,A Celtic and Classical Player
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 08:51 AM

So far in my experience of long lasting a lot of Hornpipes so named are not Hornpipes, and a lot of Reels so named are not really reels, and a lot of Polkas so named are not danceable, So there you have it!
Fill Your Boots......

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 10:42 AM

And your experience would be   ?

Personally I can't see your point.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Jan 11 - 06:59 AM

My Scottish Fiddler friend says - If you can say Rangers Celtic Rangers Celtic in time with the music , its a reel (4-4) and if you can say Liverpool Everton Liverpool Everton in time , its a Jig (6-8)
and Liverpool Everton Manchester Liverpool Everton Manchester is a Slip jig in 9 - 8 !

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 23 Jan 11 - 07:09 AM

5/8 Lollabrigida (rpt)
7/8 Gina Lollabrigida (rpt)
9/8 Sexy Gina Lollabrigida (rpt)
Does that help?
Thought not!

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Jan 11 - 07:16 AM

Oh it helps, Ralphie - but not in the way you intended...

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 23 Jan 11 - 09:54 AM

Will.
It only helps chaps of a certain age!
As Nigel Chippindale once said as we introduced Take 5, "You can tap your feet, if you do it one toe at a time"

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Jan 11 - 10:44 AM

Do you do both "Unsquare Dance" and "Take Five"? Both excellent tunes - and they go well on guitar as well.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: GUEST,Berty
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 09:30 AM

You can tell it's a bodhran player at your door, because the knocking gets louder and faster, and the person doesn't know when to come in.

Subject: RE: Jig, hornpipe, reel - difference?
From: Brakn
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 09:51 AM

And the best answer goes to..................


Leadfingers