sea shanties

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Matthew Bram
Date: 02 Mar 99 - 01:40 PM

My deepest thanks to all of you for the warmest welcome I have received in years.

Takeo, I did receive your e-mail (last night) and I would be thrilled to add some Japanese sea shanties to my collection (I'll write more later).

Mick, thanks for the advice about pacing myself, but I think I'll manage because I'm just so in love with this music.

Once again, I love hearing from all of you.

Matthew

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Bert
Date: 02 Mar 99 - 03:25 PM

For a good story about the Russian Arctic convoys read '73 North' by Dudley Pope.

Bert.

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Matthew B.
Date: 03 Mar 99 - 06:26 PM

Martin -

Let me know if you need the lyrics of "The Last Shanty" and I'll post it here.

As for "derelict," I seriously doubt if there's a connectionn between a dead man's chest and a dead man's face. The latter (as you point out) refers to a kind of chain link that's used for attatching two anchors to one chain, and named as such because it sort of looks like a skull's face in its shape.

In the song "Banks of Newfoundland" there's a line "Come wipe the mud off that dead man's face,and heave to beat the band" referring to the fact that it's coated with mud as you haul up the anchor.

However, much to Hugill's chagrin (but completely in keeping with the folk tradition nonetheless), mud became blood, which sounds (in my opinion) kinda neat, especially if you don't know much about anchor chains and think it's referring to some corpse you have to clean up before pitching overboard. Okay, it's kinda morbid, but I like that sort of stuff.

- Matt

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Mar 99 - 08:56 PM

Hi Martin. If you can picture a flat heavy piece of steel in a skull shape with 2 holes where the eyes are & a matching hole where the mouth would be, the main lead chain would attach at the mouth & the 2 anchor chains would lead out at different directions from the eyes. This would give them better holding power in rough weather & also gave them a measure of safety, holding against changing tides & winds. This devise was better than running two cables or lines from the deck which could eventually twist while swinging at anchor. The swivel would eliminate these dangers later on.

The Dead Man's Chest, I don't have much on. In the Book of Pirates, S. Franks writes "The Dead Man's Chest refers neither to human anatomy nor to luggage, but to an island reef in the Caribbean where pirates are supposed to have consorted & shipping come to grief". Although not much to bite into Stuart Frank is quite the researcher with an endless supply of sources.

In the past pursers or pussers were officers responsible for pay, provisions & clothing & until the early 19th century in the Royal Navy they could officially benifit from their transactions, the suspicion that sailor's felt lead to nicknames like "Mr. Nipcheese" while their assistants where labled Jack Dusty or Jack of the Dust.

Hi Muckscrapper, I didn't mean to make it seem as if Afro Americans were more influencial than all the other sea going nations, only that I think that the amount of their influence has been underestimated grossly & the effect they had on the songs is still not recognized. Barry

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Wotcha
Date: 03 Mar 99 - 09:16 PM

A perfect example of Mr. Nipcheese at work is illustrated in Caroline Alexander's much bandied book, "The Endurance: Shackleton's Legendary Antartic Expedition." Shackleton's logistics man rationed food meticulously while hoarding stuff for himself.

Oh, and on the Chantey theme ... the only two chanteys mentioned, as the crew's favorites, in Ms. Alexander's book (10 trivia points)are Mr. Stormalong and Sailor's Alphabet. A good chanteyman can get you through 22 months stuck on the ice.

Cheers, Brian

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 04 Mar 99 - 03:51 AM

Makes sense that "Stormalong" was one of the two shantis sung on the "Endurance", since that's the part of the world where the good skipper came from - "Away down south around Cape Horn".

How are the east coast sea festivals attendance-wise? I've never been to a shanty festival on the west coast, Vancouver to San Diego, in the last twenty years that drew a decent crowd (maybe I've missed some successful ones...). I recall one in the Bay area that had Stan Hugill, Louie Killen and me doing a workshop for two small kids and a dog. Make my day and tell me the East has more luck!

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Matthew B.
Date: 04 Mar 99 - 03:06 PM

Jon Bartlett,

Yes, the East Coast has some pretty good turn-outs. I can't tell you the actual attendance numbers for the Mystic Festival, but they're pretty high.

We even had a nice turnout here in NYC for the Little Red Lighthouse festival in Manhattan last year.

In addition to that, we have a monthly Shanty Sing at the Seaman's Church Institute, near the South Street Seaport.

Matt

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 12:58 AM

Hi Jon, I hate singing to dogs they always jump right in before finding the right key & won't go away until they're sure you not playing bones. Kidding aside there aren't that many shanty festivals (at least in the Northeast) here but the few that exist are usually well stocked & well attended. I was at the same Little Red Lighthouse Fest. that Matt mentioned the year before & the preformers did a great job (that includes you & Caroline, Sandy) & for a small 1 day affair I was surprised by the crowd (but was really more bowed over by the singers). Mystic has to be one of the best attended (with a good few Mudcatters too , mind you) & best presented & constantly has a line up that that you couldn't beat with a stick. The tall ships parades I've been to here have had some sea music but not near what I'd expect or hope for, but still when the singing starts it's well repesented & attended.

I'd love to hear from those in Europe about the sea music at the tall ship's races & parades. From the pictures & articles I've read it seems that in Europe one wouldn't think of putting on a sea festival without including a good bit of sea music to accompany it (is this true?). And how about from all the Aussies & Kiwis, how's the sea festivals, parades & races for sea music? Barry

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Lyrics to Glendy Burke
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 08:34 AM

Anybody know the lyrics to "Glendy Burke?"

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 07:11 PM

Hi Annon. When looking for lyrics start a new thread & ask there rather than buring it at the bottom of an old thread that many might not bother with anymore. The Glendy Burke is in the DT. Enter the title into the search box in the upper right corner of your screen & you've got it. Happy hunting, Barry

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Matthew B
Date: 17 Apr 99 - 01:00 PM

Alice -

I still don't get the "shower" reference

- Matthew

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 17 Apr 99 - 01:14 PM

Monthly Chantey Sing at Seamen's Church Institute, 241 Water Street, NYC tonight (17APR). For the brave hearted, this can be followed by an Irish Session with Brian Conway, Dan Milner and Bob Conroy at O'Neill's Pub, 3rd Avenue @ 44th Street, Manhattan. Chantey Sing is free (contribution welcome); Irish Session is free.

Hope to see you if you're around town.

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Apr 99 - 01:24 PM

Click here, Matthew.(grin)
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: LEJ
Date: 17 Apr 99 - 04:20 PM

Liam's Brother...You know Dan, for probably the one and only time in my life I am regretting that I don't live in New York City! If I did I would certainly be at the Seaman's Church AND O'Neill's Pub. Have fun!

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 17 Apr 99 - 05:21 PM

Alice (and Joe): Wow! Talk about IN jokes. I remember the thread, but even with the hint I failed to make the connection. --seed

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: GUEST,Drew Davidson
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 04:53 PM

Does anyone out there have the words of a shanty called the Gallant Ship

rgds

Drew Davidson

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Amos
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 05:36 PM

On singing chanties while sitting in shanties:

Although the two words are presently spelled the same in some lexicons, Webster's seems to think they are different words.

The word for a shack is attributed to the French word chantier, a lumber camp, from a Latin root cantherius meaning a rafter or a trellis. Hence, a crude dwelling of the kind thrown up in lumber camps.

The word for a seaman's working song derives from the French word for singing, chanter.

Webster's dates the former to 1820 and the latter to 1856, but I think the singing root must go back further than that.

FWIW.

A

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: SeanM
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 05:43 PM

Drew;

I'd suggest starting a new thread with "Lyr. Req: Gallant Ship" as the title.

Also, there are several shanties that might go by that name. A small section of lyrics or a chorus (whatever you know) would be very helpful.

M

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: SeanM
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 05:43 PM

Drew;

I'd suggest starting a new thread with "Lyr. Req: Gallant Ship" as the title.

Also, there are several shanties that might go by that name. A small section of lyrics or a chorus (whatever you know) would be very helpful.

M

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Amos
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 05:43 PM

As for finding reasons to sing chanties on industrial-era vessels, my first shipboard post was peeling potatoes on a 150-foot triple-expansion steam driven North Sea trawler; but no-one seemed to mind that I sang tales of the cook making duff so handy while I was doing it. I guess it depends on the mix of your shipmates.

A

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Jun 02 - 02:29 AM

Wow, incredible thread!

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 01 Jun 02 - 04:41 PM

Thanks for rereshing this, Kat! This was before I became a Mudcatter, so I never saw this thread before. I just want to correct a bit of info posted early on. The San francisco chantey sing was mentioned, stating that one has to reserve space the Thursday before the event. There is a music newsletter in the bay area that mistakenly printed that, so it's understandable that someone would post that info here. Actually, reservations for the chantey sing can be made up to an hour before it begins (begins at 8pm) by calling [phone]. Ok...carry on. Excuse the thread creep.

chanteyranger

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: SeanM
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 05:31 AM

Refreshing for a friend... Hope you enjoy, and REGISTER, dammit!

M

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: radriano
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 07:03 PM

The tall ships festival is happenning in San Francisco this year (2002) over Labor Day weekend.

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 11:24 PM

Matthew Bram, if you're still here, let us know how your project is coming along. Many the Mudcatter would love to buy your book when it's out.

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Melani
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 12:51 AM

The Tall Ships dates that I have are Aug. 28-31. I'm told there will be a lot of schooners.

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 10:14 PM

Aye, Chanteyranger! Count me in on the first sales as well.

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From:
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 04:44 AM

Matthew Bram,

This is my first time on this site. I'm very interested in your collection of shanties, as I am choir director of the Zuiderzeemuseumkoor; a choir related to the former Zuiderzee (sea), which is now a big lake.

This also goes to anyone else interested; I'm always looking for interesting material. I've also got some interesting songs in Dutch and German for you... My address is; Jos Lange Zesstedenweg 137 1613 JC Grootebroek Netherlands

My e-mail-address runs via the school where I work; [e-mail]

Sincerely,

Jos Lange

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 05:12 AM

We in the Northwest get the Tall Ships before you Bay folk do. They're here at Steveston (a fishing village on the southwestern tip of Richmond) from 9-11 August. The Vancouver FSS Shanty Crew, among others, is doing the singing. We'd LOVE to have salty Mudcatters and other shantysingers join us! We have just finished a CD with 27 shanties on it with an enclosed 32-page booklet on sail in the northwest, particularly the development of the Fraser River ports. The shanties are all the usual: nothing new, but then the exciting stuff is in the singing, isn't it? We made the CD as a souvenir for folk who aren't yet aware of the singing traditions in the hope that it might spark some singing interest. The thought of just LISTENING to shanties is sorta creepy, isn't it? A bit like keyhole peeping! Anyway, we'll be encouraging all and sundry to join us and we'll get some really big choruses going. No stages, no mikes, just a big crowd tailing on the rope.

Jon Bartlett

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 08:00 PM

Some day I have to cruise up to Vancouver, nose around the docks where C. Fox Smith used to hang out gossiping with the old shipkeepers. Jon, has anyone up there done any research on her activities in the early 1900's. She spent about 10 years in your area, probably part of the time employed at some kind of shipping office.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 10:21 PM

Chaley, this is indeed news! What's your source? I know of no-one doing research in this area, but I am sure interested!

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Abuwood
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 09:05 AM

Can I reccommend http://www.chanteycabin.co.uk/ they have a wealth of shanty recordings, and a "black box" of some really old and obscure stuff with printed histories. Let me know when the book's ready!

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Abuwood
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 09:07 AM

Can I reccommend http://www.chanteycabin.co.uk/ they have a wealth of shanty recordings, and a "black box" of some really old and obscure stuff with printed histories. Let me know when the book's ready!

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 04:27 PM

Jon-

My references include the short bio that Danny McLeod did as part of his accompaning song notes to SEABOOT DUFF & HANDSPIKE GRUEL, performed by one of his sea music groups Pinch of Salt; PM me for Danny's e-mail address. C. Fox Smith herself describes in one of her sailortown short stories books talking with various shipkeepers from roughly 1904 to 1914, much of that time based in Vancouver. With a little work I could provide the relevant book titles, most of which are still available at www.bookfinder.com

Hope you are someone else in the area can figure out a way to follow up the adventures of C. Fox Smith in British Colombia.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 03:24 AM

Thanks, Charlie, I'll be in touch as soon as I'm back from the Chilcotin. I'm pleased to say our shanty CD BLOW THE MAN DOWN - TALL SHIPS IN THE FRASER came out today - 27 tracks and a 32-page booklet with a history of sail in the Fraser River (just in time for the Tall Ships Festival 8-12 August at Steveston).

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From:
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 07:52 AM

hi matt, on your newfoundland research did you come across a song titled "the ferryland sealer"? i know it recorded by the scottish folk band silly wizard, it's a nice song, originated in ferryland, avalon peninsula. and do you know the beautiful a cappella arrangements performed by the robert shaw chorale? it dates back from the sixties, i guess, but has been remastered on cd ("Sea Shanties", BMG Music, 09026 63528 2). it contains four- and five-part arrangements of blow the man down, haul away joe, what shall we do with the drunken sailor, and others - in sort of a "king's singers" style.

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: beachcomber
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 08:34 AM

Barry Finn, you never did post the words of that neck tingling "shanty" that goes "Fifteen men on the dead man's chest etc." It thrilled me beyond words when I first heard it back about 1953 or 4 in the Film of "Treasure Island" . Please do! Mathew I was sure some other recordings of Sea songs and shantys would eventually be mentioned but have seen no mention of some I bought at Cecil Sharpe House back in the 60s. One had A.Llyod , Louis Killen (who played the sailor's favoured concertina) and Ian Campbell among others. I also did not see any reference to the great Cyril Tawney who used to sing in the 50s with a group calling themselves "The Loo Shantymen" (Loo being a town in the Southwest of England I believe and nothing to do with showers and singing in them) I remember their magnificent rendering of "Spanish Ladies"...We'll rant and we'll roar like true British sailors etc., etc.." Your book sounds like a good'un, best of luck with it, postumously or otherwise.

beachcomber

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Wotcha
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 11:34 AM

I think you mean Looe, Cornwall ... The "Loo" is something else in British slang (but better than "bog") ...
Cheers,
Brian

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 12:56 AM

I just found a sea shanty web radio station on live365.com...just do a search under sea shanties..I had it turned down really low and I swore I heard Bob Kotta singing..sure enough..if you can possibly get hold of an old tape of his (NW Seaport in Seattle might still have them) do..he was unsurpassed I think..just a great singer and a great guy...he's singing with the heavenly band now..

see thread on Cranberry Coast Sunnycamp..we are right here at the Columbia bar..should be lots of good songs about the sea here..but I sadly do not know of any/many...John Dwyer and Suzie MacAleer did right a great one with a very involved chorus...mg

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From:
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 02:04 AM

Hello Fine Folks,
I am a student, working on a proposal for a year-long grant to study outside the US. My project is the music and lore of sailing,both in European tradition and in the indigenous traditional song and story related to working with the sea in French Polynesia and Micronesia, perhaps New Zealand....
I'm pressed for time, but I'm so committed to making this proposal work somehow! Does anyone have ideas or contacts, or would be willing to talk in person with me about this? Dan McKinnon in halifax gave me the link to this site.
Thanks much!!!!
Ashlynn

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 11:17 AM

Ashlynn,

Check out the "News from Guam" thread (and be prepared for a good, LONG read!). Naemanson, a sea music lover who currently lives on Guam, is someone you might want to talk to.

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Dead Horse
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 01:45 PM

Get hold of a copy of Stan Hugills book "Shanties from the Seven Seas"
ISBN 0-913372-70-6
Available from Mystic Seaport Museum, inc.
75 Greenmanville Avenue,
Mystic, CT. 06355.
(priced at $19.95 some years back, & worth at least double)
It contains a wealth of info regarding shanties, their history, and how they were used. Much other interesting stuff as well.
Beg, borrow, or better yet, buy a copy!

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: GUEST,Chanteyranger
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 02:58 PM

A great resource for the sea music of the south Pacific is Revell Carr. He is a PhD candidate in ethnomusicology at UC Santa Barbara, specializing in the sea songs of pacific islanders, and the musical contacts between whaling ship sailors and islanders. Not to be confused with his father, also named Revell Carr, who is the former director of the Mystic Seaport Museum.

If you sign up on mudcat as a member, you can receive personal messages, and I can give you Rev's email address there, if you'd like. He also checks into Mudcat from time to time.

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: GUEST,Dan in Nova Scotia
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 03:18 PM

Hello Ashlynn,

I also just thought of another person who has had a few connections with shanties and that would be Stuart Frank who used to be the head honcho at the New Bedford Whaling Museum in Mass. I don't know if he's still there but that might be another avenue.

Also, as I hadn't heard from you I was wondering if you have the right e-mail. Here it is just in case:

[e-mail]

All the best.

Cheers,

Dan

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 01:56 PM

A friend of his sent me an email saying that there is a Disney toy from Pirates of the Caribbean movie that has a bit of the late, great, Bob Kotta singing a bit of "15 men on a dead man's chest." I haven't heard it...he also can be heard singing Bully in the Alley on something I hadn't heard of but just came across on internet...a CD called Save the Wiwona one song at a time...I'll see if I can get the url...several songs can be heard from url alone...I'll start separate thread. mg

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: s&r
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:45 AM

Anyone know a source for French sea shanties?

Stu

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Snuffy
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:57 AM

If you go here ISSA, then click on "Shanties", then "Library" you can download a spreadsheet of all their shanty collection (1100+) in various languages.

Trouble is, you have to be a member to get the actual texts and dots. :-(

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: GUEST,Wyll
Date: 06 May 11 - 05:16 PM

Hello
I'm in France but born in UK I love shanty's and woud like to keep them going I don't sing but do have a good colection of audio et lyrics of French and English song's.
If interested tell me

[e-mail]

Wyll

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Harry Rivers
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 05:19 AM

Does anyone know if the book mentioned in the first post above was ever published?

The email given doesn't seem to be active any longer.

Also, which of Stan Hugill's books are the most comprehensive. I understand that later editions of 'Shanties of the Seven Seas' were abridged.

Kind regards
Harry

Subject: RE: sea shanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 08:46 PM

Actually my understanding of how long Cicely Fox Smith was resident in British Columbia (in posts above) was incorrect. Instead of ten years, she arrived in Victoria around 1911 and left in the fall of 1913, according to passenger lists.

Cheerily,
Charlie Ipcar