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Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button

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beardedbruce 10 Jul 06 - 01:42 PM
Alan Day 10 Jul 06 - 06:10 PM
GUEST,Rowan 10 Jul 06 - 09:12 PM
Bob Bolton 10 Jul 06 - 11:31 PM
beardedbruce 13 Jul 06 - 08:15 AM
pavane 13 Jul 06 - 09:43 AM
GUEST,Eamon 08 Mar 14 - 03:38 PM
Richard Mellish 08 Mar 14 - 03:46 PM
GUEST,Eamon 08 Mar 14 - 04:03 PM
Steve Gardham 04 Nov 20 - 10:15 AM
The Sandman 04 Nov 20 - 10:28 AM
GUEST 30 Jan 23 - 01:29 PM
DaveRo 31 Jan 23 - 06:49 AM
GUEST,Concertina 01 Feb 23 - 02:39 PM
Steve Gardham 02 Feb 23 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,Concertina 02 Feb 23 - 11:26 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Feb 23 - 11:31 AM
GUEST,Concertina 02 Feb 23 - 11:34 AM
DaveRo 02 Feb 23 - 12:34 PM
GUEST,Concertina 02 Feb 23 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,Concertina 02 Feb 23 - 12:59 PM
DaveRo 02 Feb 23 - 01:13 PM
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Subject: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:42 PM

I recently picked up a Bandmaster 20 button concertina, made in Germany, with the word "Foreign" on the side in block letters under "Bandmaster" in large script. It has a rose ( pink/red/yellow) motif on the bellows to body joint, otherwise sort of a painted-grain wood finish.
It plays different notes on each button, depending on the bellows motion. 40 total notes- and sounds pretty good.

Anyone know anything about this thing?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: Alan Day
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 06:10 PM

You have there an Anglo Concertina.
The centre note on the push,left hand on the top and bottom row will give you the key of the instrument and the point from which you can start your scale.The tune for English style playing is played on the right hand and the accompaniment on the left.
Al


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 09:12 PM

Others may be able to tell you how to play, better than I can, but this could get you started. Apologies if it seems very (too?) basic but I'm assuming you know nothing about the instrument.

Never having seen this brand I don't know whether its rows of buttons are straight or curved but there should be two rows, each with five buttons, on each side. If you put your hands through the straps so that the concave of the curved rows is facing you rather than facing away from you, you're holding it correctly. There should also be a single button near the right thumb, used to control air flow in and out of the bellows while you're playing (or putting it away). Most learner start by playing while seated. Ideally, you should not allow the bellows to rub on your knees, to prevent wearing of the bellows.

Holding the instrument properly and with a bit of air in the bellows, the 'top' three fingers of each hand will naturally rest against the 'top' three buttons on each side of the instrument. Make sure they're on the same row on each side, ie the row nearer you or the row further away. Push in the bellows and, with the ring finger of your left hand, depress the 'middle' button of the row; this gives the tonic of the scale. On the same button, pull the bellows and the next note up in the scale will sound.

With the next finger (the 'rude' one) depress the next button up the left side of the instrument and push the bellows in; on the same button, pull the bellows. This gives the next two notes going up the scale. Ditto with the index finger of the left hand on the top button gives the next two notes up the scale. Now for the right side.

With the index finger of the right hand on the top button (in the same row) of that side, keep pulling on the bellows; still on the same button, push on the bellows. This gives the next two notes up the scale; the first is the leading note and the second is the tonic again, one octave above the one you started with.

With the next finger (the other 'rude' one) depress the next button down the right side of the instrument and pull the bellows out; on the same button, push the bellows. This gives the next two notes going up the scale. Ditto with the ring finger of the right hand on the third button down, gives the next two notes up the scale. Now for the tricky bit.

With the little finger of the right hand on the fourth button down, pull the bellows out. Move the little finger to the fifth button down and keep pulling the bellows out. These two operations give the next two notes up the scale, the last one being the leading note an octave above the earlier one I mentioned. Move the little finger of the right hand back to the fourth button from the top and push the bellows; this gives the tonic again, two octaves above the one on the left hand side.

Both rows have the same pattern and the nearer row will have the higher scale, a fifth above the lower scale on the row further away. This pattern allows you to get a selection of chords by pushing the bellows in and having all your fingers depressing all the available buttons in a row. Pulling the bellows out while doing this can lead to consonant or dissonant chords, depending on what your index fingers are doing. Melodeons and mouth organs both use similar patterns, if that is any help to you.

Alan's advice works up to a point but I found early on that the tunes I wanted required me to use both hands to play melody. Later on I found I was doubling lots of notes by playing the octaves and this had come from learning to play with both hands, so to speak. Some parts of Australia have this doubling as a regional style but that may not be really relevant to you.

Bon chance!

Cheers, Rowan.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 11:31 PM

G'day beardedbruce,

Bandmaster was a brand used by an East German free-reed instrument manufacturer in the Berlin Wall era ... and I think they still manufacture under some name like Weltmeister (as well as having made the cheapest concertina in Hohner's Hohner international branding).

Strictly speaking (pace Alan) what you have is a German Concertina. The Anglo (short for Anglo-German) is what happened when Uhlig's bright idea of dropping the bass end of a button accordion and splitting its melody rows over two sides of a small box met up with the much higher grade of manufacture that was happening to the concertina in England, under the tutelage of Lachenal ... originally hired by Wheatstone to tool up production for his instruments.

What most keen players play, these days, is an Anglo-(German)-chromatic ... using at least another row of semitones and/or alternate direction reeds to allow more keys / faster playing. Such extended scales were independently developed on the German instruments and the British ones - but the simple 2-row (2 key-sets) instrument is the starting point for both. Simple, cheap instruments like your Bandmaster won't last as long - or be as easily repaired - as a good London-made (or similar) concertina ... but they are fun while they last.

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:15 AM

Thanks, all.


Bruce


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: pavane
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:43 AM

See my posting in another thread "concertina tutor for song accompaniment" for details of my program which does tablature for the Anglo concertina.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: GUEST,Eamon
Date: 08 Mar 14 - 03:38 PM

Is it possible to tune this type of concertina and if so how?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 08 Mar 14 - 03:46 PM

> Is it possible to tune this type of concertina and if so how?

The short answers would be "Yes" and "Carefully".

Any free reed can be taken up in pitch by filing it a tad thinner near the free end, or down by filing it a millitad thinner near the fixed end. But it's very easy to go too far and wreck the reed. If one of my concertinas needs tuning I take it to an expert.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: GUEST,Eamon
Date: 08 Mar 14 - 04:03 PM

Thanks, much appreciated ;0)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 10:15 AM

There are some disparaging remarks here on the longevity and cheapness of the East German models. Whist your Wheatstone/Lachenal is likely to last without needing much repair for over a century, I have half a dozen of these cheap models and they all have kept good tune and are still in playable condition. You get what you pays for, but for learning on these cheap models are fine.

Yes individual reeds are easier to remove, replace and tune, the banked reeds are the same as in accordeons/melodeons and although you need to remove a whole bank to get at the internal reeds they are usually just held in place with a pin and wax and can easily be removed and replaced.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 10:28 AM

learning on cheap models is not always because often the action discourages the beginner,
next richard mellish, it depends if the concertina has concertina or accodion reeds-, if they have accordion reeds filing is not recommended you need a different tool that has a sharp [point] and you scrape the reed it is a completely different technique


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 23 - 01:29 PM

my wife and I are going to sell a Bandmaster Concentina in aid of a charity that care for adults with learning disabilities ... it is in very good condition and we would like to get £75 for it ... what do you think please .... any advise or guidance will be greatly appreciated...
Laurence & Marjorie (mlbden@btinternet.com)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: DaveRo
Date: 31 Jan 23 - 06:49 AM

concertina.net is the place to ask. You'd need to join and post some photos. Also say whether all the buttons work - on both push and pull - and whether the bellows leak.
But judging from this post it won't be worth a lot:
German Made Anglo Concertina But Who Makes It?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: GUEST,Concertina
Date: 01 Feb 23 - 02:39 PM

Maximum 40 pounds , they are cheap rubbish


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 02 Feb 23 - 11:20 AM

Cheap, yes. Toys, perhaps, but rubbish...? Don't be so harsh. There are probably beginners out there and people who can't afford a more expensive box who would welcome one. I remember in the 60s an old lady on the west coast of Ireland who had a 3-row bright coloured Chinese model. She won the fleadh one year!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: GUEST,Concertina
Date: 02 Feb 23 - 11:26 AM

What is your value, then?
The action is unresponsive which limits developing technique, and discourages enthusiasm to play.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 23 - 11:31 AM

Dunno whether they're the same lot, but Bandmaster is (or was?) also a make of East German tremolo harmonica. They rarely arrived in tune and they certainly didn't stay in tune.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: GUEST,Concertina
Date: 02 Feb 23 - 11:34 AM

If it is a two row CG Anglo it is limited, as you cannot play in D major, So is limited as regards playing Trad tunes.
You cannot compare a 20 key with a 3 row unless it is a 20 key in GD, The bright colors are not relevant as regards its use for playing.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: DaveRo
Date: 02 Feb 23 - 12:34 PM

We don't know if it's a 20 button. We only know - from the OP - that a 20 button Bandmaster existed 16 years ago.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: GUEST,Concertina
Date: 02 Feb 23 - 12:54 PM

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 23 - 01:29 PM

my wife and I are going to sell a Bandmaster Concentina in aid of a charity that care for adults with learning disabilities ... it is in very good condition and we would like to get £75 for it ... what do you think please .... any advise or guidance will be greatly appreciated...
Laurence & Marjorie (mlbden@btinternet.com)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: GUEST,Concertina
Date: 02 Feb 23 - 12:59 PM

If it is a 3 row it is probably worth 75pounds. I would not buy it because I do not like the way they play, but it would be worth 75 pounds, if it is a 2 row 40 pounds.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina- Bandmaster 20 button
From: DaveRo
Date: 02 Feb 23 - 01:13 PM

I looked on ebay at sold bandmaster concertinas - and they were all 20b. Range was £25 - £70 - the highest being described as 'suberb condition'. Several at £95 didn't sell.

So £40 seems reasonable.


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