Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs

Subject: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: Forre5t
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 07:50 AM

Hello all knowledgeable types out there:
I am a re-enactor looking for 15c marching (or drinking) songs, particularly Yorkist but from anywhere in the uk really, possibly european if they were popular enough to have spread here. The only marching tune we have is 'John the red nose', a good 14c Irish tune, but we've been singing it for years, and we really want something Yorkist. Religious stuff and songs like 'sing cuckoo' are not really appropriate for war, but any drinking songs would be good to sing around camp. Any music you have to go with the lyrics would be very useful.
Many thanks,
Martin Forrester

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching so
From: Paul Burke
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 08:28 AM

Thomas Wright's Political Songs of England might have something relevant in it.

Or:

Iam lucis orto sidere
statim oportet bibere;
Bibamus nunc egregie
Et rebibamus hodie        

(Now at the dawning of the day
We must start drinking straight away;
Let's drink now till the drink's all gone,
And have another later on)


Then there's "Meun est Propositum", which IIRC you could contrefact with "Gaudete".

Or try the "satire" here, there seem to be some verses you could turn into a sort of Middle-English "We Poor Labouring Men".

I can't recall anything of much use offhand from my copy of Davies' "Mediaeval English Lyrics", but I'll have a look tonight.

The main problem with stuff from that time is that of the little that got written down, even less has survived. It would take a literate person (read monk) with an interest in the subject to scribble it down (while the scriptorium supervisor wasn't looking perhaps), and then this sole copy (before printing) to have survived the wholesale destruction of the Reformation, Civil War, library fires, WWII bombings etc. - it's a wonder anything's left at all.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 12:03 PM

There aren't any known 14th century Irish tunes.

By "John the red nose" do you mean "The Cutty Wren", as historically interpreted by A.L. Lloyd?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching so
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 04:29 PM

Just done a check in Davies. Drinking song: Bring Us In Good Ale. Later 15th century, bang on WoR period! I'll copy out the words as in Davies if you like (Tim Hart & Maddy Prior's version was a bit shortened).

One or two bawdy-ish songs, but a bit involved for marching.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: MMario
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 04:36 PM

no need to copy it out as it is in the DT

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: GUEST,Bruce Baillie
Date: 21 Sep 06 - 06:52 AM

...I've actually got the words to a song called 'The Wars of the Roses' if you are interested?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: Forre5t
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 08:07 AM

Yes please

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 08:22 AM

Thomas Wright's book looks fascinating, but unfortunately it stops well before the Wars of the Roses.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: Forre5t
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 08:38 AM

Would the songs still be sung? I don't think there's a problem singing stuff from before your period.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: GUEST,Bruce Baillie
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 10:44 AM

So Mr Forre5t, I've got the 'Wars of the Roses' on a CD, How can I get it to you? (I'll send you a print of the words as well if you give me an address

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: squeezeboxhp
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 11:09 AM

hi bruce

send him the monologue as well he may be a lancastrian

ken

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: Soldier boy
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 10:13 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: The Walrus
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 02:32 AM

How about "The Agincourt Song" with the lyrics altered slightly.

Or don'y you believe that they had 'filk' or ad-lib in the 15th Century?

"Our King went forth to Tewksbury...."

W

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: Forre5t
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 07:42 AM

Send any stuff to
Martin Forrester
Wesco Aircraft Europe
Park Mill Way
Clayton West
Huddersfield
HD8 9XJ
England

And I will be eternally grateful. What I really want is somthing authentic about knocking 7 shades out of the tudors...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 11:36 PM

One here.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: Forre5t
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 08:22 AM

Many thanks Bruce, it looks like an instant campfire classic even if we can't sing it in front of the public (if we can remember it). Thanks also for 'men of harlech', though it was written years later to commemorate the battle, it was a good try.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: GUEST,Bruce Baillie
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:53 AM

...Whaddya mean you can't sing it in public? I do, glad it's OK though, it's easy enough to remember even if it is only 8 minutes long!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: Forre5t
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 08:02 AM

Telescopes? Gracie Fields? Mike Harding? how very ye olde.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching so
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 06:58 PM

I think you might have to write the songs, probably using the tunes of selected carols.   

For example, the tune of Good King Wenceslas was probably around at the time (used for "Tempus Adest Floridum", which is in Carmina Burana). It could make quite a good tune for getting marchers to step it out a bit.

And there are other carol tunes dating back to around then. And in fact the Agincourt song was generally referred to as the Agincourt Carol.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: Forre5t
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 08:16 AM

Could it be done convincingly without a PHD in Middle English? 'Heres a song sung during the 15 c' carries a lot more weight than 'Here's my idea of the sort of thing ...'

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: Forre5t
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 08:18 AM

Bruce, my parents are folkies, are you gigging locally (Holmfirth area) any time soon?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: GUEST,Bruce Baillie
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 10:02 AM

...Not at the moment although I'm always open to offers, I can often be found down at the Panther Folk Club in Cleckheaton at the Wickham Hotel on Tuesday nights and I will be doing a spot at my mate Dave Ellis's Club, the General Ludd at the Wheel Inn, Golcar when Bernard Wrigley is the guest on Friday November 17th. Thanks for asking!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkist Wars of the Roses marching songs
From: GUEST,Bruce Baillie
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 10:32 AM

...Me again, you might try looking at this site, some very interesting books on all things medieaval
www.thescriptorium.co.uk/books