Fiddle Music definition

Subject: Fiddle Music definition
From: Gypsy
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 10:56 PM

Okay, SOMEONE finish the endless discussion! What is the exact definition of 'fiddle music'? What makes it germane to that particular instrument? Oh yeah, does 'fiddle music' contain sixteenth notes? Please, does anyone out there have the definitive answer!speakingasahammerdulcimerplayerwhothinksallmusicisforhammerdulcimers..................

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 11:14 PM

There is no exact definition, beyond "music played on the fiddle". Much, of course, was composed specifically for the violin and is in that sense "germane" to the instrument, though most of it can be played perfectly well on other instruments with an equivalent compass. Differences in dynamic capabilities may present technical difficulties (the hammered dulcimer is a percussion instrument, after all), but a good player can usually compensate for these.

Doesn't all music contain sixteenths? And thirtyseconds, for that matter?

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 11:00 AM

What Malcolm Said.

People who play American old time music tend to use the word "Fiddle" to refer to their instruments to distinguish themsevles from classically trained musicians who play "violins."

However, I have heard classically trained musicians refer to their instrument as a "fiddle."

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: Bernard
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 05:38 PM

In the wrong hands, o'course, it's a Vile Din!!

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 05:46 PM

And can bring on a fit of Viol Lenz in some!

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: Kaleea
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 08:09 PM

I don't know that answer, but I can tell you 2 answers to the
old Q:   

"What's the difference between a Violin and a Fiddle?"



One Fiddler I know says: "Attitude!"


   OR;


When another good pal o mine always is asked, he answers,

"A Violin is about culture, but a Fiddle is about Agriculture!"

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:17 PM

Kaleela, I've heard three answers:
-from a fiddle player - "A fiddle is fun to listen to."
-from a violin player (violinist) - "Technique!"
-from another violinist - "A violinist would never end a sentence with a preposition."

As to the original question, I think that people refer to tunes that fall into certain forms - jigs, reels, hornpipes, breakdowns, ... as fiddle tunes. It's not so important what instrument is playing them. I'm sure that more banjo players play Cripple Creek than fiddlers, but it wouldn't be wrong to most musicians to call it a fiddle tune. As long as whoever you're talking to understands, it doesn't really matter. Let's not get into the "What is folk music?" type of discussion.

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: pdq
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:28 PM

Rick Skaggs said "a fiddle player keeps time with his foot, a violin player keeps time with his eyebrows".

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: GUEST,fumblefingers
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:33 PM

Fiddle tunes: Old Joe Clark, Bile Dem Cabbage Down, Sally Goodin

The difference between a violin and a fiddle? The price.

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: Gypsy
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:36 PM

tee hee, tee hee, tee hee! Thanks for all the good stuff, especially to Malcolm. The discussion was brought up as himself has written a new tune. Our newest guitar player sez it is a 'fiddle' tune, and as such, should contain no 16th notes. Now, himself is a mando player, so am assuming if it is to be labeled, it would be a MANDO tune, yes? But it did bring up the discussion as to what constitutes a fiddle tune. Me, i just refer to treble or bass clef tunes.........keeps things simpler! thanks all!

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:43 PM

All very cute (see numerous past discussions here for more on the same lines) but basically irrelevant. Do you have anything to say in answer to the question that "Gypsy" actually asked? Somebody must have something useful to say, surely, that goes into more technical detail than I am able to on the essential differences between the typical fiddle repertoire and those of other vernacular instruments?

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: Al
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:46 PM

If your're buying, it's a fiddle. If you're selling, it's a violin.
Al

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: Gypsy
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 11:00 PM

Malcolm, i am gonna take your definition........it is ALL music. Have heard the term in the past, and had my doubts that it was for real, and tend to agree with what you said. I just have doubts that ANY genre of music could be owned by any particular instrument. Thanks ever so much for your words of wisdom.

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: Scrump
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 05:11 AM

Interestingly (or not, as the case may be), my dictionary defines "fiddle" (n) as "a violin, especially when used to play folk music; extended (colloq.) to any violin; extended to similar instruments such as bass fiddle..."

Which pretty much sums up what I thought - 'fiddle' is used colloquially as a generic term for any member of the bowed instrument family (violin, viola, cello, double bass). I've heard classical musicians use the term informally when discussing their instruments, but I guess this would probably be frowned upon by the classical music authorities, whoever they are ;-)

So, going by the definition above, maybe fiddle music is folk music played on a fiddle? Now all we have to do is define folk music... :-O

I fail to see what the presence or absence of sixteenth notes has to do with it though - don't they occur in both folk and classical music (and probably other kinds too)?

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 07:02 AM

Of course, they once were called "viedles" .... :-)

I'm not making this up you know...

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 07:25 AM

Fiddle music = any music suitable for playing on a fiddle.

eric

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 07:32 AM

As a Mandolin and Whistle player , if I play , for example ,'Old Joe Clark' does it cease to be a Fiddle tune ? I dont think so , any more than 'The Barren Rocks of Aden' ceases to be a Bagpipe tune when played on a 5 string banjo !
Gypsy , I think your Mandolin player is being just a touch precious about his music (In My Not Very Humble Opinion).

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 08:42 AM

Gypsy,

try standing up - if you lean to one side....

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 12:49 PM

Most of the time when people say "fiddle tune", they are referring to a piece with a fast tempo and short notes. Lots of eighth notes, a handful of sixteenths (probably as pick-up notes) and few notes which are any longer. The few longer notes will probably come at the end of sections.

If you don't believe me, take a look at the Fiddler's Fake Book, which could have been titled "50,000 Eighth Notes."

If you pick up a fiddle and play something slow, such as "Danny Boy," then it's not referred to as a fiddle tune, it's called an air.

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: Gypsy
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 10:49 PM

Nice definition, Leeneia, i LIKE that one! Eric, it was the guitar player who was precious, we weren't terribly concerned about a definition. But once the question was out there..........thanks all, for the input.

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 10:59 PM

Hi,

There are some great blues and jazz fiddle players. I don't really think tempo has much to do with playing the fiddle- there are fast and slow songs.

Fiddles usually have a different set-up (height of saddle) and different bowing techniques. They can be tuned differently and frequently don't use the standard EADG esp. in old-time and bluegrass.
Sometimes they are held against the chest.

So there are general difference in style (vibrato and tone), tuning, set-up and the slurring. There are also different types of fiddle styles.

That being said, there are fiddle players like my friend, Mark O'Connor, who can play classical music and has written some nice music for orchestra and also solo violin.

Debbie Gitlan, who plays some with my bluegrass band, is a great fiddler (winner of numerous fiddle competitions at major festivals) but also plays some classical, bossa-nova and studies jazz.

Richie

Subject: RE: Fiddle Music definition
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 09:18 AM

The best discussion of the topic I have found:

Donna Hebert's
The Reel Deal: Twelve Questions Violinists Ask about Fiddling

http://www.dhebert.com/12questions.html