A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma

Subject: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 04:51 PM

As many of you now know, I am the moving force behind the Borderline Folk Music Club of Rockland County which uses the House Concert format to present its shows. In this capacity I am constantly being bombarded with e-mail messages and unsolicited CDs from performers who would like to play our venue. Some of these are quite good and worthy of consideration while others are just not traditional or folky enough for us. I also get calls from performers who are very much in the folk tradition and have been for quite some time. Many of these singers can even be considered icons who have shaped folk music into what it is today. The problem is that they have for all practical purposes lost their voices and are way past their prime. If my entire audience was made up of all hard core traditional folkies I would have no problem booking them. The late Stan Hugill, sans voice was still a featured attraction at Mystic because of who he was. However, much of the audience that I attract are ones who I am trying to convert to the cause of folk music and want to hear someone who has a good singing voice in addition to his or her songwriting abilities and reputation. I am in a particular area with a lot of competition. I have to compete with the Hurdy Gurdy, the Turning Point, the Walkabout Clearwater, and the Town Crier Cafe, all of who present class acts as well as what is going on in NYC. Were I to present someone whose voice is way past their prime I would lose much of my audience. The question is; "How do I tell these performers, many of who I have known on a first name basis for 30 plus years that they no longer have what it takes to play my venue, without hurting their feelings ? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
                                             SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Cool Beans
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 04:58 PM

Rabbi Sol,
    First, get a second opinion. For instance, I think Tony Bennett lost his voice 20 years ago but everybody tells me I'm wrong.
    (Hey, everybody. Please don't turn this into a thread about Tony Bennett, OK?)
CB

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 05:02 PM

How do I tell these performers, many of who I have known on a first name basis for 30 plus years that they no longer have what it takes to play my venue, without hurting their feelings?

You DON'T tell them that, unless they ask you exactly WHY you are not booking them. Tell them something else that is also true, but not hurtful.

"I don't have an opening available."

"We're going in a different direction."

"I sure wish I could book my personal taste, but it's pretty complicated."

"Our venue is not the best fit for you right now."

"I handle all the arrangements, but choice of artists is something done by committee." (there you get your second opinion)

~Susan

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 05:08 PM

Most of the truly good singers that I've heard or know some how don't find there voices fading that much at all while they're aging into their golden years (what's your opinion 40's 50's 60's or 70's, I hope 70's) & then by the time that it's a problem they've slowed down & don't really want to do the circut or tour anymore. Some voices mellow out with age, which should not be a problem as their voices aren't for the worst just changing & many times for the better. I do feel for you for those that you think can't cut it anymore.

Barry

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 05:40 PM

I'm with Barry there - a lot of singers get better with time, both their voices and more espeically as song presenters. Not too many people in our kinds of music are too good till they're into their thirties or forties at least.

Same goes for country.

I don't think telling transparent lies about why you aren't booking someone is too good an idea.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 05:42 PM

Barry,
       I am talking about folks who are well into their 70s and some who are into their 80s as well. They think that a house concert is the ideal format for them because they can no longer project through a large concert hall.

Susan,
         We do have a committee of 3 who decide which performers get booked. They all well known to and by the performers and happen to share my opinion. However as head honcho of the "troika" I am the one who has to take the heat.
                                                SOL

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 06:01 PM

I wouldn't tell them why unless they specifically ask. Then I would tell them as gently as possible. Explain to them that you are trying to attract non-trad folks and need the strongest, in-their-prime voices available. Blame it on the audience - short-attention span, unfamiliarity with folk, one chance to catch them in the *folk-net*, etc. (JUST suggestions!)

However, I agree with the others about voices getting better, too. That said, I remember when my dad at around 85 or so lost his ability to hit in the higher registers and just didn't sound as good anymore. Never did figure out a way to tell him and it didn't seem to matter. His audiences were mostly older than him and didn't seem to notice or mind.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 06:32 PM

My late wife Jacqui used to get very vexed with me about this. Now normally she used to call a spade a fucking shovel, if you get my drift, but when we were running a particular folk club (with the aid or otherwise of a committe, it was a bit like herding ducks with a sheepdog) we got rung by a well known singer from a county away and he even sent in a CD that I have since given away. I just told him he was country and we were a folk club and she went apeshit!

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 06:44 PM

Here's an idea - an annual concert billed as some sort of tribute or recognition ceremony - some term that indicates that the stars may be past their hayday - stack the place with your and their family and friends - give each performer ten or fifteen minutes, maybe have some younger volunteers perform a few of the old-timers' hits - pay the old guys whatever you can out of what I'm sure is your inexhaustible slush fund, make a speech about their tremendous contributions, etc.

Several advantages to this: when they're asking for gigs, you can say, We really want you to be part of the Gala in April, blah, blah; they may take such an occasion for what it is - a kindly and respectful way to tell them their day is past, and graciously bow rut; you can feel that you've done your part to honour their contributions and spare their feelings; also, it doesn't have to be part of your regular concert schedule. It could be a good time too.

Whether or not that seems like a workable idea, I think with some creative thinking there may be some way of dealing with the situation other than refusing the gig flat out. Here's another possibility: "Joe Smith is coming in November, and he always liked your music. He said he'd really like it if you'd come and do a set with him, and we thought that would be a good idea." (Better run that one by Joe Smith, though!)

Who was it that said "old age isn't for sissies"?

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: oggie
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 04:31 PM

I'm a Brit and so showing my ignorance but what exactly is 'House Concert format'?

All the best

oggie

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 04:57 PM

A house concert is when you bring 30 to 40 people into your living room and then invite your favorite folk music performer to give a concert. It is a very warm and intimate venue. A sound system is usually not needed. It is the way accoustic music was meant to be performed. It also give the audience a chance to interact on a one to one basis with the performer and purchase his or her CDs (autograhped of course). In most cases the performer gets 100% of the gate which is usually $15 to $20 per person plus all the revenue from merchandise sales. Other performers work on a guarantee vs. a percentage of the gate, with the remaining percentage going for food and advertising. It is a non-profit, ( usually money losing), situation for the host who does it strictly for the love of the music.
More and more performers are now turning to this type of venue for gigs. I have been hosting house concerts for a year now and have had a chance to hear some of my favorite performers. My next concert is on Saturday night, November 11th and will feature Atwater-Donnelly.

                                                   SOL

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 05:00 PM

How about telling them part of the truth?

You are not booking them because, given your target market and past experience, you don't think the concert will generate sufficient income to pay for itself.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 05:00 PM

I think thurg's idea is a wonderful and loving option, like a picnic-type event where everyone brings a dish to pass and the musicians you're thinking of bring the music as their dish.

~Susan

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 05:13 PM

Given the capacity of the average living room (30 to 40 people), there is no way that anyone can hope to make a profit on such a venture. $20 per person is the maximum that you can charge because let's face it, most folk music lovers are poor and can not afford to pay more than that. Even at full capacity with an additional 10 standees cramped in sardine can style you may just about break even.
Look at it this way. If you had to drive into the city, pay for parking, tolls, gas, a restaurant, tickets for the performance, and a baby sitter, it would cost you the same or more money out of your pocket than what you lose on the concert. Here you get to choose the performer of your liking plus you can invite all your friends and get entertained in the privacy of your own home. The performer, between the gate and the CD sales gets a decent night's pay plus exposure. It is a win win situation for all concerned.
                                                      SOL



                                                 SOL

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 05:16 PM

By the way: "graciously bow rut"="graciously bow Out".

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 06:22 PM

30 - 40 in a living room! No way could I get that number in my living room. Maybe 25 at a push, but I would struggle to find seating for them all.

I think houses in the UK are generally smaller than in the US, which I suspect is one reason why the format is not much known over here.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 06:31 PM

What's a "Hayday"? Is it Amish?

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Bernard
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 06:33 PM

Bloody Nora! I thought my living room was big, but I'd be hard pushed to get even twenty comfortably seated in here...!

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 06:53 PM

Back in the mists of antiquity I did a lot of house concerts, but we didn't call them house concerts then. I don't think there was a name for them. I was just hired to sing for a group of people in someone's private home. Sometimes I was paid a flat fee, sometimes they charged admission and I was paid a percentage. Sometimes it was a charitable fund-raiser. Once in a while, I shared the program with the host.

They're intimate and friendly, and in a sense, verge on what "chamber music" used to be—or what minstrels did for a living: entertain in someone's private home. Very traditional.

Actually, I think that's my favorite kind of performing.

I'm 75, and constantly reassessing my own voice. So far, so good. But I definitely share the viewpoint of opera singer Beverly Sills. When she decided to retire, people asked her why she was retiring when her voice was still excellent. She responded, "Well, as far as I know, my audiences haven't noticed it yet, but I can feel it myself. It's not as easy as it used to be. And I'd rather have people ask, 'Why did she retire?' rather than have them say, 'Why doesn't she retire?'"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 06:56 PM

What's a "Hayday"? Is it Amish? sez you.

Huhn? Why Amish? sez me.

Anyway - I assumed the word came from "hay", as in "make hay when the sun shines", my thinking being that your "hay"day is when the sun is shining for you and you're making hay, in other words, prospering and preparing for the hard times ahead. Apparently my etymology, like my spelling, was wrong:


[Origin: 1580–90; var. of high day, appar. by confusion with heyday2]

hey‧day2  /ˈheɪdeɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hey-dey] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–interjection Archaic. (used as an exclamation of cheerfulness, surprise, wonder, etc.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1520–30; rhyming compound based on hey; r. heyda < G hei da hey there]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source hey·day (hd) Pronunciation Key   
n.
The period of greatest popularity, success, or power; prime.


[Perhaps alteration of heyda, exclamation of pleasure, probably alteration of Middle English hey, hey.]

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 06:57 PM

Sorry - that was me - thurg -

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 07:02 PM

Yeah, I know "heyday".

Amish get together to build barns and harvest, right???

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 07:17 PM

RB: I realized you were pointing out the spelling mistake - I just found the correct(?) etymology interesting: "high day", "heyda", "hey hey", etc.

When you said Amish, I thought of the 19th century German spoken by Amish types rather than of the farming lifestyle. Having spent many summers of my youth making hay, I don't associate it with the Amish moreso than with any other farming culture.

That's what you get for trying to be witty!

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Bert
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 07:41 PM

You could try getting a sound system to augment those with weak voices.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 09:57 PM

Besides being an extra expense a sound system could not cover up the raspiness of the voice when it cracks on the higher notes. It would only amplify the problem and make the audience more aware that the voice is no longer an asset but a liability.

                                              SOL

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 10:19 PM

What about letting them do a song during the main act's break? They might go over better than you think.

Have you encouraged them to sing a bit lower? If they play guitar all they have to do is tune down a half step.

~S~

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 11:09 PM

Susan,
       You do not understand. These people are used to being headliners and want to be paid full price as such. They would never be content with playing second fiddle to some new upstart kid who is still wet behind the ears and was probably not even born when they started singing. To have them do one song during the break would be an insult to them and that is the last thing I would ever want to do to someone of their stature.
                                             SOL

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 11:13 PM

Well, if they have a following, perhaps you should consider thurg's excellent suggestion and let other people decide whether they are worth hearing.

~Susan

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: oggie
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 12:17 AM

Thank you for the explanation.

oggie

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 01:09 AM

You can say that you have a tight schedule and limited resources, and there is more established talent available than you can accomodate. You can say that the committee is forced to balance their schedule between new talent and established talent, and if that isn't enough, you can tell them that they don't have the name recognition with your audience, because they are younger.

Best, however, is to just say "No." and leave it at that. They've heard it before, and it as more dignity than giving excuses.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 03:05 AM

There's many a good tune been played on an old fiddle.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Betsy
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 04:24 AM

Trouble is Rabbi-Sol , to ask a question like this you have reached a degree of uncertainty in what you are doing.
Mellow voices indeed !! - a complete smoke screen !!!
All you have to do, is, at your next gathering ask your attendees to send you an Email listing 10 or 15 performers they would most like to see at your Events .
Cut and paste them all into Excel, Sort, and see who comes out on top etc.
Tell the performers who you don't want to "book" that, THAT'S how you do it - you're doing it buy some sort of common consent.
It will also tell you what tastes your audience REALLY has, and what sort of music will make them turn up time and time again.
As for mellow voices - I wouldn't say Vin Gartbutt has ever had a mellow voice but he is the No.1. who people come to see in the UK.
They come for the overall performance, it's delivery,content and quality . They want to feel good, and feel they've been given what they are looking for in a performance, and , we all have different expectancies.
I know loads of people with lovely mellow voices, but can't hack (say) 2 x 1 hour sets.
A mellow voice , singing material I don't particularly like , or introduced and delivered by a total introvert wouldn't suit me, but it may well be acceptable to your audience.
If I wanted to hear a mellow voice singing good material , accompanied by his own musical mastery and delivered in a good open friendly manner - look no further than Bob Fox.
Some may differ and have other suggestions, because it IS a subjective matter e.g. I don't want to have an evening of Sea Songs / Shanties by the same person.
Just tell people who pester you, " We canvas opinion from our audience to find out which people who they will pay to see , and unfortunatley you're not on the list. "I" (you)"hope things might change in the future , but that's the way things are right now".
Thankyou for your interest in our gatherings.
Finally ( and with advance apologies to "Cool Beans" ) I have never understood how Tony Bennett,Jack Jones and the like have made a mega-bucks-living out of so-called singing ( mellow voices ?).
I wouldn't pay to see either of them even if they were in your living room.   

Cheers
Betsy.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 01:02 PM

Betsy,
       I think that your wise suggestion and advice is the best that I have received thus far on this matter. Thank You.

                                              SOL

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 01:50 PM

"I have never understood how Tony Bennett,Jack Jones and the like have made a mega-bucks-living out of so-called singing" -

At this point it's nostalgia.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 02:12 PM

A couple of items struck me.   First, let me mention that I am the booker for one of the venues that Rabbi Sol mentioned in his first post - the Hurdy Gurdy.

I don't think you meant to say that you "compete" with venues like ours and the others mentioned. What we are all doing is creating a "scene" in our area that will perpetuate this style(s) of music. When one venue fails, we all suffer.    I was moaning about the lack of attendance on my website ( www.ronolesko.blogspot.com ) just the other day. It is important that people attend shows, and that we all help each other out.   Rabbi Sol, please be sure to send me flyers and I will gladly hand them out at our next show.

Now, as for telling the artist they are past their prime - as others have said there is no need to actually say that.   For the Hurdy Gurdy, we have 10 concerts a year.   I could easily book 52 concerts a year with GOOD performers, and I probably receive dozens of other artists that I would not book for various reasons (their style doesn't fit the type of music we present, they are too expensive, or they are just awful).

A polite "thank you" for the inquiry is appreciated, and then a simple "we do not have any openings at this time".   If they press you for an answer, you can be delicate about it or simply be straightforward.

House concerts are wonderful opportunities for artists to fill in their schedules and play in front of an intimate and attentive audience.   Some artist, who may be past their prime, would draw an audience no matter what simply based on their reputation.

Arlo Guthrie tells a story of how Pete Seeger began performing less in concert because his voice was going. After awhile, Pete started performing more because he realized that while his voice was going, so was the hearing of his audience!!   

People can be very forgiving for someone they love.   You might actually end up with a nice audience that would enjoy the performer.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 03:01 PM

Ron,
    Thanks for correcting me. I did not mean to say that I compete with the Hurdy Gurdy. In fact, I am careful to schedule my concerts on dates that do NOT compete with the Hurdy Gurdy because we draw many of the same people. What I meant to say is that we have to book talent that is equal in quality to those performers who play these other venues, because that is what people in our area have come to expect.

I am grateful for your offer Ron to distribute our flyers at the next Hurdy Gurdy show. Please PM me off the board with how many you want and the address to send them to, so thatI can get them to you ASAP.

                                                       SOL

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: BB
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 03:05 PM

The idea of getting the audience to say who they would like to see is fine, but, unless they do the rounds of the festivals or are lucky enough to have a good folk programme they can listen to regularly, will they ever hear anyone that they haven't heard before? Seems to me a club/regular venue can just go round in circles that way.

Those who organise the club need to get their regular attendees to trust their judgement - so the organisers need to get out there and hear lots of people, or listen to lots of CDs, etc. and only book those that they think are good (that doesn't necessarily mean that the artists are their own personal taste in music, but that they are good at what they do), and, of course, know their audience and what they believe will go down well with them. But being an organiser also means having to make judgements which may seem harsh, and I believe it is better to be truthful when turning someone down, otherwise they may well keep coming back to you for future bookings. That doesn't mean being rude, but gently honest, and genuinely regretful, if indeed you are.

I speak as someone who is on both sides of the fence, i.e. organiser and performer.

Just incidentally, it may well be that a performer who is past their prime may still be worth giving a hearing on the basis of their interpretation of songs and their presentation, which may well still be able to teach the young 'uns a thing or two!

Barbara

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Blowzabella
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 03:16 PM

I'm going to be no help to you at all, because I think there is huge merit in offering people a performer they may not have heard of - but who YOU know is well worth seeing. Thing is, you need to have built up a trust with your audience first, so they will come, despite that.

I'm also a huge fan of the more mature performer - what they may lack in youthful voice is more than made up for in humour, experience and the qualities that only come with having a lifetime of knowing the music.

I can remember (after a few bevvies) asking Louis Killen to marry me only last Easter - he's a mature chap by anybody's standards, but still gorgeous!!!

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 04:04 PM

The trick is to gradually develop a nucleus of regulars who will come to depend upon your judgment in selecting performers. It works, as long as your taste is close enough to theirs; otherwise you have to change your selection process of fold your tent.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: breezy
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 04:14 PM

Its your show, you call the shots.

If not , give it up.

Make the decision now.

Dont call me again

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 05:20 PM

I generally like to book someone whom I have seen personally at a live show as opposed to just listening to a CD. This way I can gauge how they are going to interact with an audience. If I can not get to hear them live I will rely on the opinion of experts whom I trust such as Ron Olesko or Bill Hahn. I also try to attend other peoples' house concerts that are in reasonable driving distance, where I have discovered a lot of good new talent. Many times there is a huge difference in the way a performer relates to an audience between a large festival setting and a small intimate living room type setting.
If I do my homework correctly my audiences will be pleased.

                                                   SOL

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 05:50 PM

Rabbi Sol,

If any of the artists who you have turned down read this thread then they will know why you turned them down. Maybe it's not a graceful answer to them but it will give them the reason.

Ron,

You and the Rabbi are definitely competing with each other. Many people only have a limited amount of money to spend on entertainment. If someone goes to one of your concerts this week they may not be able to spend the money to go to the Rabbi's concert next week and vice versa. More then likely a person will see someone who they know or someone they have wanted to see. I live on Long Island and this weekend there were three major concerts...Vance Gilbert on Friday night, Garnet Rogers on Saturday Night and the Strawbs on Sunday afternoon. I am an avid folk fan but at $20 for one concert, $15 for a second and $35 for a third there was no way that I could go to all three. So even if you and the Rabbi don't have concerts on the same night or are a slight distence apart from each other you are still competing for my dollars.

Andy

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 06:01 PM

Andy, in order to have choices, you need to have healthy alternatives.    If I were the only game in town, with 10 concerts a year, there would only be a handful of concerts.   I might get an avid fan like you to come someone like Vance Gilbert, but it would become harder for Vance Gilbert to build up a following if more opportunities did not exist.   Where would he play next year? If there was only one venue, Garnet Rogers and the Strawbs might not come through town - and might not build a following to ever get to that one venue.

It may seem odd, but your dollars are only a small part of the picture. Without a healthy scene, you won't develop avid folk fans that might support concerts.   The NYC area is one of the most populated areas of the country. If we cannot fill three different venues to see Vance Gilbert, Garnet Rogers and the Strawbs, then the scene is not healthy.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: black walnut
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 09:04 PM

How to fit 30 - 40 into a living room? Well, we do house concerts 3 or 4 times a year, and for those evenings we take out the movable furniture and replace the space with a few rows of comfortable little black folding chairs we bought at Business Depot which make up most of our seating. Our living room has a couple of steps up to the dining room which creates a little balcony when the doors are open. So we fit over 30 people each time.

There's nothing better than a good house concert!

~b.w.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Maryrrf
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 09:24 PM

I think Rabbi Sol articulated a problem many concert organizers have - which is that there are so many talented, deserving performers that there just aren't enough slots for them. I help run a strictly traditional concert series so of course that immediately eliminates anyone who is principally a singer/songwriter (we have nothing against singer songwriters, but we wanted to dedicate our series to traditional music, because there are so few available venues). So, right off the bat, we are not exactly "mainstream".   While we don't book people just because we think they will bring in an audience, we do have to try to have performers who, in addition to being artistically worthwhile, will please the audience and keep them coming. For example, while we three organizers would enjoy an entire evening of unaccompanied ballads, we're pretty sure our usual audience just wouldn't be ready for that, so we've had to turn down some prospective singers. We also try to have a nice mix of different styles and traditions, and we might, for example, turn down a performer who specialized in Appalachian music because we felt we'd had too many concerts of that genre, and we needed some variety.

I agree with Rabbi Sol, it's hard to say no. And the reason a concert organizer says no may have nothing to do with whether or not they appreciate and/or admire the performer. We're certainly not bowing to commercial pressure or booking people because we think they'll make us money (we DON'T make money of of this series!) but we do have to keep the series viable by filling seats, and that means pleasing the audience.

There is another acoustic series in Richmond similar to ours, but they do tend to book singer songwriters. We've teamed up with them, to our mutual benefit. We announce each other's concerts, distribute each other's flyers, and have links to each other's websites. We've noticed quite a bit of crossover, and we feel that we're helping to build the acoustic music scene in Richmond, and that it has helped both our concert series.

I agree about house concerts. If we had big enough houses that's what we'd be doing!

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 09:34 PM

Ron,

I agree with everything that you say. It is very important to have a healthy folk music community in a geographic area. What I want to see may be different then what you want to see so it is good to have choices. I was just trying to correct you when you said that Rabbi Sol was not competing with you. You both are definitely going after the same people. If all of your concerts are strong performers and all of the Rabbi's concerts are lesser known or over the hill the odds are pretty good that you will attract the bulk of the crowd. If I live in your area and it's a choice of Vance Gilbert or Harry the Folk Singer then I'll probably go and see Vance Gilbert. There is definitely a place for both you and the Rabbi but the Rabbi is right when he says that he has to book a sellable performer in order for him to afford having concerts.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 09:38 PM

I have been to many house concerts in the States, some memorable, some not so memorable, but at no time have I ever come away thinking that it was time the performer should jack it in because his/her voice didn't cut it any more.

I did however attend one house concert in Miami where the performer was in the full bloom of youth/early maturity, and I came away thinking, well, the guy has a voice, but he writes some really crap songs.

My opinion was not shared however by the (largely female) majority of the audience, who swooned over his sugary charm and perfect teeth ...

Prices must have gone up since my time btw, there was no way I would have paid $20.00 for a house concert back then.

$10.00 max, IIRC ...

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 09:58 PM

Ron will be having the trio of Herdman, Hills & Mangsen on November 4th and I will be having the duo of Atwater-Donnelly one week later on November 11th. I am sure that Ron shares my opinion that both are class acts featuring singers in their prime. We routinely announce all the other upcoming concerts in our area and I am sure that the other venues do the same for us. We display and distribute their flyers as well. As Ron says, it is healthy for the folk music scene.

                                                       SOL

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 11:25 PM

I love Atwater-Donnelly!   Unfortunately I will be at NERFA that weekend and could not attend. They are superb artists and I highly recommend their performance!!!   Don't miss them!!!

Guest, I have a feeling that I wasn't explaining myself correctly.   What I am trying to say is that we have a large population in our area that should be able to support all concerts.   Yes, if we look at a single individual we are competing for that one persons dollars - but in an area our size that should not be a factor.   There are several MILLION people within a 25 mile radius of our venues (which are probably less than 10 miles apart).   IF we can't draw a decent crowd at the Hurdy Gurdy (which has a 100 seat and a 400 sat room) as well as a 30 to 40 seat house concert, then the scene is not healthy - or there are other factors that we need to work on.

The Mets and Yankees drew 3 or 4 million fans this season. Each are doing well. Are they competing for the same fan dollars? I really don't think so.   I have not set foot in Yankee Stadium since 1979 when Jerry Koosman was pitching for the Twins, yet I will go to maybe a dozen Mets games at Shea each year.   Are the Yankees competing for my dollars? No. The baseball scene is healthy enough to support two teams in this area.    Admittedly, I am an oddball. There are plenty of fans who will go to both stadiums and support both teams, even if their allegiance lies with one or the other.   There are other markets in the country that have one team, and draw poorly.

Getting back to folk music, if all the venues are doing their job and drawing in fans, the folk music scene stays healthy and we do not have to worry about what choice YOU make - there is enough music to go around.    Someone who goes to the Hurdy Gurdy to see Herdman Hills and Mangsen in November may pick up a flyer and go to see Atwater Donnely at the Borderline because they enjoyed the music they heard and will want to see more. They may skip our show in December, but someone else may grab a flyer at the Borderline and come to the Hurdy Gurdy in December to see Tracy Grammer and Toby Walker.   The more people that get turned on to this music, the better it will be for all of us.

Subject: RE: A House Concert Presenter's Dilemma
From: black walnut
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 01:04 PM

We're hosting Eileen McGann at our house tomorrow night. What a treat! I'm not advertisting..we're full with a waiting list....just sharing the excitement. Eileen has an amazing voice, writes wonderful songs, plays a great DADGAD, knows a mountain of Celtic trad, can swordfight, and she paints too. Oh to be so talented.
~b.w.