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BS: Iceland and whale hunting
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Ed T Date: 16 Apr 14 - 11:22 AM I put this link here, as it deals with whaling and Japan is mentioned in some of the posts. A Japanese parliamentary committee has unanimously passed a resolution urging the government to investigate all options to continue whaling, including "walking out of the (international whaling) convention" Japan politicians defiant despite whaling ban |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi Date: 10 Apr 07 - 07:51 AM Guest you said --Save the whales! Us is one of larges whales fishing nation in the world ? so are you gonna stop too ? you have to stop your coverment in saying - I can -you cant . I think the whaling in Iceland is going to be stopped, we have elections here in the middle of may , I hope a new group of people will take over , and they are against whale fishing. All the best Skarpi Iceland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Gurney Date: 10 Apr 07 - 04:08 AM I meant to point out that commercial whalers have catcher boats and factory ships which are no use for anything else. Subsistance whalers drag the thing up the beach and deal to it there, distributing the spoils to friends and family. I see a difference there. I live in a country that was founded, in its present situation, largely on whaling and sealing, and exploitation of other natural resources. The original inhabitants were subsistance whalers, and then along came the Pakehas, the European settlers. My name is Davy Lowstan, I did Seal, I did Seal. My name is Davy Lowstan, I did Seal. Though my men and I were lost, though our very lives it cost, we did Seal, we did Seal, we did Seal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Gurney Date: 10 Apr 07 - 03:53 AM Along with several others, I can't see much wrong with using whales as food. That's my philosophical position, and I am setting myself up for a heap of shit. I do, however, have a problem with catching them right NOW, because they have been commercially 'fished' almost to extinction, and if they are not left strictly alone to recover, they may never do so. Who can tell if the whale that's harpooned tomorrow might be the most genetically important one left? Arbitrarily reducing the size of a already reduced gene pool is bloody stupid. They only procreate like other big mammals, not spawn like fish. Just because you can see 'plenty' of them, it doesn't mean there are lots of them. It is possible that you see the same ones over and over, as is the case with territorial whales. Non-whaling (ex-whaling) countries do tend to be a bit unbalanced about whaling, though. AFTER it became uneconomic, they swung the other way as conscience prodded them to to try to 'Save the Whale.' Now they try to lean on subsistance whalers to comply with their position. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST Date: 09 Apr 07 - 03:12 PM Save the whales! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Leadfingers Date: 31 Oct 06 - 06:51 PM Peace - Bear in mind that the Native Scottish Haggis , which I assume is the source of your Canadian variety , is a Clockwise creature , with the LEFT legs longer than the right legs , so they can only go clockwise round the mountains ! The SPOTING way to hunt is to only go clockwise yourself . The UN sporting way is for a few people to drive the poor unsuspecting haggis round the mountain to the waiting guns . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Date: 31 Oct 06 - 12:33 PM In Canada, those of us of traditional bent hunt the haggis. We ARE attempting to hunt it to extinction, but to date we have had little success. It is generally accompanied by copious draughts of Scotch, a liquid of wonderful medicinal properties but one also that causes the hunter to lose his or her balance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Wolfgang Date: 31 Oct 06 - 12:28 PM The Faroese kill the pilot whales in the traditional way with traditional weapons (roughly, hook and knife) but their small boats chasing the whales into a bay today have motors. Protect-the-whales-groups BTW have harshly criticised the Faroese for using the traditional method of killing and have called it "medieval". For each group of pilot whales nearing the Faroes it is decided anew whether the chase will be allowed or not. The number of killed whales is stable since centuries (the data go some centuries back). None of these whales is processed industrially, all meat and what else can be used is distributed and used locally. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Keef Date: 30 Oct 06 - 02:33 AM Save The Whale Collect the whole set I got the blue one but now my freezer is full up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn Date: 30 Oct 06 - 01:55 AM Do these "natives" still hunt traditionaly without the use modern high teck? Do they fish with harpoon or spear or do they use high power weaponery? Do they hunt by small vessels or high powered large sea going vessels? I think that you understood that my differences were that they are modernized cultures. The way that old world groups survive & don't harm the balance of food stocks is in there method of the hunt & that the hunt was always based on getting enough to be self sufficient which would include trade with neighbors. No, people do not need to look different but their life style is definitly different. They don't live in high rise or cities. They live in the communities & surroundings that have existed without the aides of modern technology. The inhabitants of rain forests, the Inuit people, the Hawaiians of Niihau & of course there are exceptions. An example might be those I gave above like the Mic Mac who unlike the others fish, hunt & plant in order to supplment while others do the same for their survival. I would say that this is quite a differrence from those cultures & societies that engauge in these activities for commerical profit. There's the difference. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Leadfingers Date: 29 Oct 06 - 12:00 PM 100 ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Leadfingers Date: 29 Oct 06 - 12:00 PM Comparing Domesticated food animals and animals living in the wild makes as much sense as comparing Elephants and Jumbo Jets ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Wolfgang Date: 29 Oct 06 - 11:24 AM I've never heard of native peoples drying or polluting up their streams, or causing super fund sites with their waste. Nor have I ever heard of them to cause a spieces to become extinct or erode their lands by misuse. (Just BTW, that is not true in general.) However, my point is that the Icelanders are the natives of Iceland since many centuries (about as long very roughly as the Maori are the natives of New Zealand) and the Faroese are the natives of the Faroes. Do people have to look different from us to be regarded by us as "natives" and to get the privileges of "natives" that come from a bad conscience accumulated aver the centuries of mistreatment? In my eyes, the privileges of "natives" have to be granted to the Icelanders and Faroese as well or (Peace's consistent position) everybody should be forbidden to hunt whales. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn Date: 29 Oct 06 - 01:07 AM My feelings are fine with you, I know where your heart is. I was wishing to see you this year but if it has to be I'll be glad to see you in 2007. Best of luck Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi Date: 28 Oct 06 - 06:07 AM My dear Barry ,then we are agree with most of the thing s . I hope to see you at the Getaway 2007 and sing and play together . I think we can what is happening to the worlds wheather system and what is happening to the seastreams for exsample arround Iceland, somethings is realy wrong ............. I am against war of any kind , and I am against Whalehunting here in Iceland arround the world. Respect to mother earth that is something we should all focus on , but ........... Barry this is a good post , and sorry if I have hurt your feelings. Over and out , from this thread. All the best Skarpi Iceland |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn Date: 28 Oct 06 - 03:30 AM I don't have a problem with the Inuit hunting whales as long as it's not for commerical purposes. Just as I don't see anything wrong with the MicMac's fishing salmon out of their Canadian rivers which have been commerically over fished by others, yet their rights to that stock has been cut & slashed by other for commerical gain. Yet again some one wants to hold up the peoples of the first nations & say "why them". This also happens in Brazil, in the rain forests yet again the regional tribe folks take the hit for it. I'm ok with it because they had always treated the food chain & the Earth with respect & they continue to hunt of fish or farm & collect in the older ways of their customs. I do not, now & have never turned a blind eye to anyone, any group or any country when I believe that there's a wrong that's being commited against humanity. Weither it's an unjust war, an act of agression against mother nature, or the non support of a health crisis. I'll call it as I see it. See my posts, I don't single out anyone or anything unfairly. That goes for hunting whales by Japan, Iceland or Norway. It also goes for the US & the UK for their support the war in Iraq. It also goes for those that would rather sicken the earth for profit rather their spend some money of R&D of reuseable energy. Exxon just announced billions in profits yet they still refuse to pay up their debts for what occured in Alaska over a decade ago. I may not do much but I do my little part & speaking up is only one part of that obligation. I do my share of letter writing, personnal boycotting, protest marching, etc. I've done this since I was a teen during the 60's for the civil rights causes, against the Viet Nam war & have done this all my life & will continue. So if it happens to be I'm speaking about the nation where one happens to reside in don't get to upset, I learnt how to do this on my own soil first. I've never heard of native peoples drying or polluting up their streams, or causing super fund sites with their waste. Nor have I ever heard of them to cause a spieces to become extinct or erode their lands by misuse. So for arguement's sake let's leave them out of all this & let's not play that cheap card trick. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Date: 27 Oct 06 - 08:20 PM Uh huh. And? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,Copy paste Date: 27 Oct 06 - 07:42 PM # up to 95% of Earth's species may have disappeared during the later Permian extinction episode, about 250 million years ago # starting 45,000 years ago, a high proportion of larger land animals became extinct, just at the time when humans arrived. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:50 PM Steller's Sea Cow Tell it to the Marines. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:39 PM "To me that looks like a patronising attitude just with the best of intentions this time." If it were up to me, the Inuit would no more be allowed to kill whales than anyone else, Wolfgang. The reason? Because some asshole in a government office wants to appease people. Ottawa and politics is not much better than working in a whore house. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,Copy paste Date: 27 Oct 06 - 05:38 PM I don't think the Icelanders are arguing that whales should be fished to extinction. The problem when debating with environmentalists on whaling is there doesn't seem to be any middle group with them. You either support a ban on whaling, or you an evil monster who wants all those whales destroyed. I'm happy for the Icelanders to hunt for whales in sustainable numbers, it's not up for me to complain about what they choose eat just as long as they make sure that there is enough for future generations to enjoy it too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi Date: 27 Oct 06 - 04:17 PM It's paranoid behaviour, and chauvinism is never a sensible response. My dear friend Paul , you dont know me at all and I dont care if US army has left our country or not , raely I am glad that they are gone now they dont have to spent any more time here in our country with this bad people who seems to live here on this Island. you say , I will pledge NOT to visit Iceland, Norway or Japan until they have their minds sorted out, and whenever possible I will avoid trading with them. Which means I'll hacve to get a new antivirus when my subscription to F-Prot runs out. what if all the people who are against the war in Iraq would not visit USA or UK while they are fighting in Iraq? thats many million s of people Paul. And what give the US right to fish whales and Iceland not ! At the moment we have here to visit us many people from Greenpeace and from travel companys who are telling us that they will not sell any more trips to Iceland? its not gonna affect the coverment only the people who work at the tourist companys. Paul I am not angry I am glad that we can talk about this and we agree with some and some we dont agree about but thats alright I respect your view. Well I have to go but If you ever come to our great counrty send me an PM and I would like to meet up with you . All the best from an Island skarpi Iceland |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Wolfgang Date: 27 Oct 06 - 12:22 PM Can any of the North Americans explain to me why the Inuit may kill whales as part of their traditional culture and for instance the Faroese should not though whale killing has been a part of their culture since many centuries and they do not kill more than they can eat? (Their catches have been stable over the centuries) Is the difference that people we regard as "whites" do not have a tradition and culture worth to be preserved whereas people we regard as "nonwhites" have a culture worth to be preserved? That's a nineteenth century white supremacy position in my eyes though held with the best of intentions this time: The poor wild people just don't know better but we stand above them and therefore don't .... (fill in your choice of what we should not do whereas for them it is still ok). To me that looks like a patronising attitude just with the best of intentions this time. Wolfgang (who has eaten whale only once, in Iceland) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Date: 27 Oct 06 - 10:11 AM "They all provide protein necessary for our bodies to survive." true. The fundamental difference between eating cow and whale, however, is that cows are not in danger of extinction. To follow your logic, humans are another source of protein, but we have a taboo against eating other humans--some sexual variations do apply. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Raptor Date: 27 Oct 06 - 09:04 AM I think the point that Skarpi is triing to make is that whale hunting, although it is wrong, is a "trendy" outrage when there are a million causes, such as the endangered Eastern Massassuaga Rattlesnake in Ontario that no-one gives a shit about because the whale is a more PR friendly creature than a rattlesnake. Skarpi is right. Why not spend more time lobbying your own Goverment to change local injustices instead of beaking off about someone else's! I'd say Iceland is by far a more envoronmentaly frendly country than mine (Canada) or yours! Raptor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:24 AM Skarpi, you've really gone over the top on this. Plenty of us oppose our government's approach on Iraq etc. We also oppose YOUR government's attitude to hunting whales. The two are not mutually incompatible. As we've pointed out, there is a huge difference beetween hunting a limited resource of wild animals and breeding animals specifically for meat. We're never likely to exterminate cows; we have already almost exterminated several species of whale, and severely depleted many species of fish. I think that the issue here is nationalism. We've touched a raw nerve by criticising what you see as a small defenceless country, and you just verbally kick out. Don't do it. It's paranoid behaviour, and chauvinism is never a sensible response. There are many hungry people in Africa. Does that mean it's OK to exterminate elephants and rhinos? In the meantime, I will pledge NOT to visit Iceland, Norway or Japan until they have their minds sorted out, and whenever possible I will avoid trading with them. Which means I'll hacve to get a new antivirus when my subscription to F-Prot runs out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:47 AM Barry , well now you re getting back some words and you are takeing them inside you ..... why don't ya bring back an ass. Whoops, there's already one right here ?? dont let them get you they are only words , why Barry I dont like this whalehunting becouse its 2006 and we dont need them as a food, there is no hunger here also becouse its not good economic way at the moment and I think in a few weeks this will be banned again . But Barry do you behave like this with your own coverment ? they are killing both whales and humans ? Have you send them an E-mail ???? What s the diffrent between killing whales or human poeple???? Its okei to kill humans but not whales??? its okei if the people in Africa is die-ing of hunger ? becouse the rest of the world have no time for them becouse the world is in war , I guess all the time the US coverment have is to have a fantasy of MR Bush coming true?? wargames ???? So I say it again to the coverment of Australia , UK and USA and others CLEAN UP YOUR OWN GARDEN BEFORE YOU START CLEANING OTHERS. we should be a shame, we have everything and they have almost nothing and it is not just in africa its in Us Uk Iceland all arround the world. Now I may not be a clever man Barry But fighting is never a good thing not even in words, All the best Skarpi Iceland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn Date: 26 Oct 06 - 11:53 PM So you don't see the difference between a whale & a rabbit, dog or sheep? Remind me not to send you to the market to buy Sunday's dinner. I'd be very afraid that you'd bring back a pack mule. Here's a couple bucks (pun intended) why don't ya bring back an ass. Whoops, there's already one right here. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,copy paste Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:55 PM But on to whales. I don't see whales as being any different than a cow, a sheep or a dog. They all provide protein necessary for our bodies to survive. So if you are going to bitch about the Japanese eating whales on the basis that whales are these beautiful magical creatures, then I hope you have never enjoyed a good roast lamb on Sunday, or rabbit stew. My students think that it is barbaric that we eat lamb because they are so cute or rabbits as they are a household pet here in Korea. Right now I'd happily pay hundreds of dollars for a decent Sunday roast as I haven't had one in over a year and probably won't until I return to the west. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Date: 26 Oct 06 - 11:42 AM The Canadian Inuit--when the Canuck government will allow a license--use single-person kayaks and a harpoon. Belugas, as you can see, are somewhat smaller than many of their relations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:43 AM It's worth pointing out that Iceland is not alone. Norway and Japan also hunt whales, and have not suffered noticeably from it. I can't imagine the British government protesting to Norway just after they opened up a pipeline that reduced our dependence on Russian gas. But I'm more interested in why. And the only answer I can see is "because they can"- playing "nobody understands us, let's smash the bus shelter" on an international scale. A feeling that the world is out to crush their tiny culture, and the only way to hit back is to do something spectacular, but not particularly dangerous to themselves. It's childish, and it's about time these destructive nationalists grew up. As someone said elsewhere, if hunting whales is a tradition, do it in the traditional way, with iron harpoons and an open rowing boat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Date: 25 Oct 06 - 11:53 PM There IS no use to it, Skarpi. Sad, but please know yours is not the only government in the world that doesn't care about the planet. I suppose on a scale of one to ten it's a small thing, but have a look here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi Date: 25 Oct 06 - 03:57 PM Over 90,000 people have sign in , in the Greenpeace webside i am pleased but , I think our seaminester is not going to stop I think so something big has to do ...... what ever that s gonna be ? our economic is gonna hurt becouse of this :>((( I still see no use to start this whale hunting ?? All the best Skarpi ICeland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Date: 25 Oct 06 - 04:33 AM "And the whales around Iceland are not endangered and we are only taking 39 whales a year." That's up a bit from the 7 or 9 that were going to be killed this year. You like Bush economics? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke Date: 25 Oct 06 - 03:32 AM The cow population is probably 10 times its 1850 level, and that applies to other domesticated meat animals. The whale population is about a quarter of thae level then, some species a tenth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn Date: 25 Oct 06 - 12:24 AM Icelander Try breeding a whale when you get hungry. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,Icelander Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:48 PM Why are evreryone so concerned about whales? Cow's are mammals too and we eat them all the time. And the whales around Iceland are not endangered and we are only taking 39 whales a year. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:46 AM Are we being told it's the whales fault? Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:25 AM Having looked into this a little deeper, I find Icelander's post earlier rather disingenuous. He was implying that since baleen whales eat plankton, the depletion of fish stocks by humans was irrelevant. In fact, the Icelandic government's main justification for whaling is conservation of fish stocks. Plankton includes eggs and larval stages of fish, and the baleen filters will catch not only these but smaller fish as well. "Fin whales feed mainly on small shrimp-like creatures called krill or euphausiids and schooling fish. They have been observed circling schools of fish at high speed, rolling the fish into compact balls then turning on their right side to engulf the fish...They can consume up to 2 tons .. of food a day." Iceland has most to lose in this- if they come to be viewed as ecologically destructive, they will seriously damage a tourist industry worth many times the value of whale products, and an international consumer boycott could damage other industries as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Alan Day Date: 24 Oct 06 - 03:43 AM Reading the paper yesterday about this subject ,it was stated that thousands of people World Wide have Emailed the Iclandic Goverment about their disgust about the recommencement of Whaling.It would be nice if they took notice of at least one of these Emails and put a stop to it. Al |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn Date: 24 Oct 06 - 02:24 AM It's believed that in order to resume a hunt on whales that the present stock should be at the very lease (minimum in studies) 53% of the original stoch pre mid 18th century. It not even close to that. The IWC (International Whaling Commision) believes that Iceland is on it's way to petion in the future to drop the ban on commerical whaling where at present the IWC bans even whaling for scientific studies claiming that the studies can be done in non-lethal methods for research. see http://www.global-whale-alliance.org/iceland.htm Barru |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi Date: 23 Oct 06 - 04:13 PM The song has a name : The Last Laviatan ...... and is a great song with a good lyric. Poul I wish the world would be secured for our children great post there . All the best Skarpi Iceland |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Raptor Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:27 PM PDQ Get a helmet! It was a joke. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Big Mick Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:17 PM pdq ....... take a minute ...... look up the meaning of "tongue in cheek" ........ thanks |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: pdq Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:13 PM Raptor: That post is so asinine that it does not deserve a response. It shows why sane scientists and ordinary citizens are sick and tired of Environmentalists. They consider anyone who won't join their hatemongering to be 'the enemy'. They destroy peoples lives using any lies necessary. The big losers are the endangered species of plants and animals who are caught between screaming Leftists who use them as a means to power and the conservationists who seek to save them. Raptor, grow up. You are not helping anything. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Raptor Date: 23 Oct 06 - 12:09 PM With global warming, the oceans are rising as the ice caps melt. The oceans soon will be splilling over. Whales take up a lot of space... So if we get rid of those pesky whales... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke Date: 23 Oct 06 - 11:09 AM There are plankton- eating whales (baleen whales) and fish- eating (toothed whales). The blue whale, right whale, and sperm whale are among the first; the bottlenose whales among the second group. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,Icelander Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:57 AM Just so you know whales don't eat cod or fish of that kind they eat Plankton (Icelandic, svif), a very small organism, same as the cod eats and the sea birds also. You might want learn more about them whales. I found a report about whale resources in the North Atlantic. There is a table at the bottom of the document stating spiecies, stock size and status. I you like you can read it, and learn a little more about this whale stuff. For the record I'm not an expert on whales, I'm just a normal Icelander. I don't hate whales, I think they are amazing animals. Hope my writing brought a new side to the matter, thank you for reading. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Big Mick Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:29 AM Dead on, Paul Burke. Great post. Mother Nature has her way of bringing balance back in the equation. Mankind, in its arrogance, thinks it is smarter. As time will show, indeed as it is already showing, that is foolish and will have horrific results for our children, as well as the creatures of the earth. As pointed out above, it is about stewardship.
From the greatest of the big sperm whales to the tiniest insect To rule with love and kindness the weak, the wild, the strong And treat My creatures gently only you know right from wrong Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:18 AM That's nutty. Whales have been thriving in the sea for millions of years. They achieve, like all creatures, a balance with their source of food. It's only when people came along fishing with advanced technology that the fish population collapsed (cod is practically extinct in many former fishing grounds). And no fish means starving whales. So it's greedy people who are hoovering up the fish faster than they can breed, not whales. And we will achieve a balance with our food supplies eventually. The process will probably not be very pleasant. |
