Folklore: Irish Songs??

Subject: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 11:02 AM

There쳌fs a number of songs popular in gatherings currently which seemingly appear to be traditionally Irish, but this is often not the case.

Examples, which spring to mind, are 쳌eClare to here쳌f & 쳌eForty Shades of Green쳌f

Others?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: McMullen
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 11:18 AM

song for ireland (that was written by an english bloke i belive)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 11:22 AM

Is it the traditional or the Irish that you are querying?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 11:34 AM

yes

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 11:35 AM

Thought so

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 11:40 AM

Aren't 'I'll take you home again Kathlene' and 'Gallway Bay' non-Irish written as well? And don't get me started on Dirty Old Town!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 11:58 AM

Whoops - Just looked up Galway bay and he was Irish - But living in England as a Prison doctor!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 11:58 AM

I was given a tape entitled 'Popular Irish Songs'

One of the tracks was 'I Belong to Glasgow'!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 12:01 PM

The Australian Composer , Percy Grainger , seems to have written qite a few Traditionazl Irish songs ! As Did Eric Bogle !

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 12:28 PM

Traditionazi Irish?

Heil Padraig!!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Brakn
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 12:39 PM

"appear to be traditionally Irish".....

to who?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Little Robyn
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 01:07 PM

Some people here think Lakes of Ponchartrain is Irish!
Anything sung by Paul Bady, The Pogues, the Clancys, Irish Rovers, Fureys, Christie Moore etc. are considered to be Irish, regardless of the song's origins. I guess some of them are as traditional as Danny Boy.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 01:09 PM

The Galway Farmer by Steve Knightley has been wrongly thought to be traditional by a few people. (According to Steve he found a website with the lyrics to "Galway Farmer - Trad." on it, and he contacted the webmaster to point out the error, and it was changed to "Galway Farmer - Trad. Knightley", which left SK a bit bemused :-))

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 02:00 PM

Jayz,

This is a wonderful thread for the spellinge!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 02:21 PM

Another Traditionazi entry

"Heil Glorious Saint Patrick"

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 02:40 PM

Hmmmmmmmmn...........there's an echo round here........!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 03:42 PM

Go on, take the p**s, why should we Irish Folklorists worry, we know that our heritage is safe now. A lot safer than some others I believe.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: ard mhacha
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 04:10 PM

I agree our Irish traditional music dosen`t go back far enough, we pinched it off the Neandertahals.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 05:25 PM

Beachcomber wrote:
"Go on, take the p**s, why should we Irish Folklorists worry, we know that our heritage is safe now. A lot safer than some others I believe".
I agree with you about the music - and maybe the Irish language singing, but I don't think the same can be said of the English language repertoire which, as far as performance is concerned, is rapidly shrinking to one type and losing its narrative quality.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 06:42 PM

The 'Songs Sung in Ireland' books , and similar publications that do NOT credit the composers of 'popular' songs lead the un initiated to think that SO Many songs are ACTUALLY Irish regardless of their origin - Its surprising how many think Eric Bogle's No Man's Land/Green Fields of France is about the 1916 uprising !!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 06:46 PM

Then there is the Ewan MacColl song about Ireland, "Shores of Erin".

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 07:01 PM

Then there's Danny Boy and the Wild Rover.

The truth is, just about any good song is liable to gravitate to Ireland as a place where good songs are appreciated and sung and looked after. The ask for asylum and get granted it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Brakn
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 07:10 PM

It would strike me very odd if someone singing "Clare To Here" or "Forty Shades of Green" would think that they were traditional songs. I would guess that would be the last thing one their mind.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 05:26 PM

Has it occurred to people that , perhaps, some of these songs mentioned are going through the "process" ? Will some of them be traditionally sung at weddings , wakes or other social gatherings in 100 years time ? Would they then be called "traditional" songs because of their longevity and popularity ? Even though the composers names will still be known - to somebody (No royalties though)?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 08:22 PM

Beachcomber - In a hundred years time , the songs will be out of copywrite , but the writers are still entitled to their share of the royalties at the moment . Do you think Ralph McTell , Eric Bogle , et al should NOT get their PRS returns ?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 06:46 AM

I am delighted if the Irish give a little tender loving care to some otherwise English songs, as McGrath correctly points out. The wild Rover, an obscure English song aung by an obscure English singer, is now universally known to every English pub drunk. But that had little to do with the English folk revival, or the English respect for their traditions: it was down to the Dubliners. fair play to them.
   This has always struck me in the context of my own working life, too. I have managed to keep my own band going for nearly twenty years by touring in ireland. How many English folk clubs would give us a booking playing traditional English music? Three, in the last three years, as far as I can recall. The Irish are brilliant at making music of their own, and also taking very very good care of others peoples'. Heartfelt thanks.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 07:53 AM

Words of wisdom Greg, we will even take EU money we are not shy.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 10:46 AM

So would I, please send me some if you have any spare.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 11:01 AM

Steve Earle does a rollicking song called 'Galway Girl' is that one of his, or a trad song?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: GUEST,Rathingle
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 11:03 AM

Yes I'm sure Steve wrote that

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Den
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 01:26 PM

That is definately a Steve Earl song apparently he spends a lot of time in Galway. I read somewhere that Galway is his favourite place to attend AA meetings.

On behalf of Irish people everywhere it is mostly not our fault that songs get attributed to us. Who cares where the song originated. I have been singing a lot of these songs for years - a good song is a good song, doesn't matter where it was born.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: sapper82
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 04:02 PM

Someone once asked why the English have so little good traditional music and got the reply "Because the Irish have pinched asll the good tunes and songs."
I've seen a CD of "Favourite Irish Pub Songs" with Cecily Fox-Smith's "Home Lads, Home" on it!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 04:51 PM

Credited to 'trad' sapper ??

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish Songs??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 05:25 PM

"My old Leinster village...