PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree

Subject: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 08:49 PM

Last night as I was working on the unfun task of removing stuff of mine from my ex's house (formerly our house) while he and our son were away, I had the TV on showing the Masterpiece Theatre production of Thomas Hardy's "Under the Greenwood Tree". Fortunately, I also had a tape in the VCR, so I can sit and enjoy it -- probably tonight.

I thought I had read that one, but apparently not. I belive this was the most musical of Hardy's stories, and it sounded like they did a pretty good job of it in the production. One of the times I did pause and look, I spotted a concertina under one character's arm (looked like it could have been kind of a late model for the period, though ;-) . Kind of ironically, one of the things I was moving out was a portable harmonium (of Indian manufacture).

I see by the web site that this was a re-broadcast; that it was on the air last April, but I don't remember hearing of it then.

Here are notes on the music from the show:

Composers James Lunn and Jim Williams wrote the original music for Under the Greenwood Tree. Other music heard in the program includes:

    * In Bethlehem He was Born, aka Remember, O Thou Man [Traditional, sung by choir]

      From Under the Greenwood Tree:
      "...Then passed forth into the quiet night an ancient and time-worn hymn, embodying a quaint Christianity in words orally transmitted from father to son through several generations down to the present characters, who sang them out right earnestly..."

    * It Came Upon a Midnight Clear [Music, Richard S. Willis, 1850; Words, Edmund H. Sears, 1849. Hymn sung in church by cast members]

    * The Drummer's Stick [Traditional, sung by choir at May Day fair, played by choir in church]

    * Abide With Me [Music, William H. Monk, 1861; Words, Henry F. Lyte, 1847. Sung by cast members in church]

    * Lead Us Heavenly Father, Lead Us [Music, Friedrich Filitz, 1847; Words, James Edmeston, 1821. Hymn sung by cast in church]

    * One Night as I Lay on My Bed [Traditional, Fancy is serenaded by choir]

-----

Unfortunately, I don't see any credits for music performance online. I'll see what I can get from the tape tonight.

Also, no links to the current day Mellstock Band.

Anyone have any comments or inside scoop?

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 09:24 PM

O.k., now I realize that it was April 2005 it first ran.

"P. Wilton "pjsw27" (Maidenhead, Berks. England)" has nothing good to say about the music in the production, in a review on Amazon.com.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 09:46 PM

Hmm. Criticism of muckings about with the plot, here.

I should wait to read bad reviews until after I watch these things...

~ B in T

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 09:50 PM

we watched it, too, Becky. I enjoyed the singing, but did wish they wouldn't sing the same song over a few times throughout. The harmony was lovely, though. They didn't actually show the musicians, up close, so it was difficult to see if they were really playing or not. As this is musically related and I found the review you linked to quite interesting, I think it deserves to posted, esp. for the historical background on Hardy and his father's music. Thanks for the link.

        


A Travesty, 12 May 2006
Reviewer:        P. Wilton "pjsw27" (Maidenhead, Berks. England)

If you think Under the Greenwood Tree is just a pleasant romantic tale without any historical context, you may well be pleased with this production. However, for Thomas Hardy, this story is as much a tale of the demise of the cultural life of his relatives and ancestors, something about which he felt passionately. None of this was of the slightest interest to those who were responsible for the music, which is as much a protagonist of the story as Dick Dewey and Fancy Day. During the lifetime of Hardy's father, musical villagers played all the music a village might need, both social dance music and church music. Hardy carefully preserved all his father's musical manuscripts; the contents of these have been well explored, and are very easy to find. Dave Townsend, for example, who provided music for the 1990s TV adaptation of Tess of the D'Urbervilles, has made many recordings, and has published a book of "Mellstock Carols". If he was consulted for Tess, why was he not consulted for this production? Music is relatively peripheral to Tess, whereas to Under the Greenwood Tree it is central. If the people responsible for this film did not realise this, they have missed the point completely. Had any interest been shown in it, viewers would have found it a revelation. The story is about the replacement of a gallery quire *and its music* with other means of music-making, AND DIFFERENT MUSIC.

Instead, we were treated to a complete nonsense. Parson Maybold wanted to remove the quire and its elaborate but crudely written music, with simpler metrical psalm tunes. In about 30 years time, his successor would want to introduce Hymns Ancient & Modern, not available until the 1860s. The last gallery quires were finally fizzling out before 1840. How was it possible, then, for the quire to be asked to sing "It came upon the midnight clear" to a tune from a much later hymn-book, written not by a west country musician, but by Sullivan, composer of operettas, and head of a London music conservatoire, from a different time and class? The text is by an American Unitarian. The Church of England was only just getting round to the idea of singing non-scriptural hymns, as opposed to metrical versions of the psalms. They might still have been allowed to sing only "While Shepherds watched" and "Hark! the herald angels sing", but even then, not to the tunes we know today, which would have been introduced some time after the departure of Parson Maybold, and probably with his approval.

Hardy's favourite dance tunes are also preserved; we did not hear a single one of them. None of the snatches of folk song bore any resemblance to the actual melodies that Hardy would have known; the snatch of the sheep-shearing song sung by Dick Dewey was not recognisable as any folk tune. The composers working on the film need only have listened to Gustav Holst's Somerset Rhapsody to hear the right one! "Remember O thou man" has several tunes, only one which is likely to have been known by a village quire; the one used in the film is the earliest, known to us only by a later revival more associated with the modern cathedral choir than an early 19th century village band.

When the 1967 Far from the Madding Crowd (Julie Christie/Alan Bates) was made, there was some excuse for the inappropriateness of the music in that film, but there has been a vigorous revival of Hardy's music since that time. In the light of all this, I would not have been surprised to hear an organ play Mendelssohn's Wedding March for the wedding, and for everyone to do the hokey cokey at the reception.

The point of the handwashing scene was that a kiss was socially impossible; why, then, was the significance of the scene completely destroyed by such a socially impossible kiss? And what was Dick doing in the river, other than looking sexy for the camera? Gathering freshwater clams? One could waste many more words without exhausting the complete ineptitude of this production. How disappointing, when other recent Hardy adaptations have been so painstakingly done.

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Tootler
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 04:20 AM

I had been looking forward to seeing this, but because of other commitments, I missed it. I don't know if the beeb have repeated it yet, but I have seen no mention of it.

However the review above confirms fears I had that the makers would miss the point and concentrate on the romance between Dick Dewey and Fancy Day rather than the demise of the west gallery quire and its replacement by an organ which is the real heart of the story. In a way Fancy's marrying Dick rather than the Vicar is a bit of "nose thumbing". The vicar might of got his way over the organ - after all he had the authority of the church behind him - but not over the girl :-)

There is no excuse, IMO for getting the music wrong in this case as the book makes specific mention of both music and instrumentation throughout the book. The Hardy manuscripts are available to expand on what is mentioned in the book.

Music is central to the book, but it seems to me typical of film and programme makers who are so conditioned to music being incidental to a drama to miss the point.

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 10:29 AM

I've had that book on my shelf for years, intending to read it. I plowed through many of his other novels (the ones in print in the U.S. at the time I was reading them--I've since learned there are more around that we couldn't get easily).

Maybe I'll move that one to the top of my "to read soon" stack. I always like to read the book before I see the movie.

SRS

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 11:16 AM

After seeing it: I'm confident the book will be better. :-(

The concertina was waved around, but the playing not even creditably faked.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Tootler
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 07:22 PM

A concertina seems like an anachronism to me. The concertina had been invented at the time the book was set - mid 19th century, but it is unlikely that it would have reached village musicians, that came later in the century. The book itself says the the musicians in the village all played strings - fiddles and cello. There was discussion at one point about the virtue of strings over wind for wassailing as wind instruments had keys which were prone to freeze up - clarinet and flute were specifically mentioned and the dancing at Dick and Fancy's wedding was to flute and tambourine. The clarinet and flute would not have been modern boehm system ones but simple system flute and clarinet limited keys. If a wind bass was used it would probably have still have been a serpent at that time.

SRS - do read the book. It has a lot of humour and gives a wonderful portrait of the lighter side of mid 19th century rural English life. The description of band members with hangovers from the previous night's dance fooling around in Sunday service and ogling the girls is absolutely wonderful. There is sadness in it, especially because of the demise of the west gallery quire, but it is not a miserable book by any means. I have read it at least twice and thoroughly enjoyed it both times.

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 07:35 PM

I didn't see any cello, but one of the fellows did lug around a bass. That was one of the reasons our orchestra never seriously considered marching...the kids were shorter than the bass's.:-)

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 08:42 AM

Under the Greenwood Tree was the first book that Thomas Hardy wrote, it was the most true to the life he knew and was the most cheerful of all his novels. The music is that which he grew up with, but bearing in mind that even these days Dorset is mainly rural and still about 30 years behind the rest of the UK, it isn't mainstream. In fact, there are very few songs and tunes from that era and from Dorset that weren't collected/notated by the Hardy family. When making a film, most directors/producers aren't going to "waste" time and money in finding authentic music - how many times has King Arthur galloped across the screen to the strains of a Tudor love song?

I'm not sure about the inappropriate kissing bit, but it was the tradition in rural areas to not marry the girl until the first child (or son) had been at least concieved, if not born. This is backed up by the baptism registers and parish records of the time. It wasn't until the mid-late Victorian period that it was considered naughty to have sex before marriage.

Squeaky

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Tootler
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 08:54 AM

When making a film, most directors/producers aren't going to "waste" time and money in finding authentic music

They didn't need to "waste" time. As you pointed out, the Hardys did the ground work for them.

Given the time and effort that goes into get other aspects of period dramas right, surely it is not too much to ask that they get the music right as well. Hardy even gives them a start by mentioning tunes and hymns by name in the book.

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 10:10 AM

There's authentic music available for every period we know music existed so why do we still get 'Greensleeves' for the Wars of the Roses?

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Scoville
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 11:36 AM

Out of curiosity--has anyone ever recorded an album of songs from Hardy novels? I remember that Tess had lots of identifiable old songs either mentioned or quoted within the narrative.

The 1967 Julie Christie/Alan Bates version of Far From the Madding Crowd is pretty good (Bates is great) and has good music. I recall "Harvest Home" and "Bold Grenadier", and I know there were others but I haven't watched it in awhile.

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 12:01 PM

"it was the tradition in rural areas to not marry the girl until the first child (or son) had been at least concieved, if not born"

That tradition seems is still honoured in my neighbourhood ...

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 07:14 PM

You mean they still get married????!

LTS

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 07:32 PM

I know nothing about about these folks, but here is one thing which came up in a search for CDs of Hardy's music: Click Here. Here's the blurb and there are sound clips:

Timing Her was their fourth album and featured Steve Potter on fiddle, it is based on Sarah's folk song settings of some of the poems by Thomas Hardy, as well as lively dance tunes from the South West. Although Thomas Hardys' poems have been set before in the classical genre, Sarah has chosen to do so in a 'folk' style with a slightly contemporary feel. Hardy himself was, after all a folk musician, and wrote lovingly about the country dances and folk bands he for in his youth, in his novels and poems. Sarah's settings have been written for harp, concertinas, and even Northumbrian smallpipes, all traditional instruments which were around in Hardy's time, indeed the character Angel Clare from 'Tess' was said to have been a harpist. The settings acquired official approval when they were described by the Thomas Hardy Society chairman as 'Hauntingly beautiful' after they were performed at the Hardy Conference.

'A particularly beautiful album...a very high standard of musicianship with a real sense of place and setting" - Phil Beer

"Lovely stuff......peaceful, soothing and quite beautiful" -Penguin Eggs (canada)

'Gorgeous music' - BBC Radio Shropshire

"Hauntingly beautiful" Thomas Hardy Society.

This looks like a fun and interesting group, too!

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 10:51 PM

Scoville, the Mellstock Band has recorded songs as well as tunes. Several albums are specifically Hardy-oriented.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 11:34 PM

"folk song settings of some of the poems by Thomas Hardy" -

I don't know - any poems I can think of by Hardy are pretty darned gloomy ... the dog digging up his bone from his master's grave; "The Man He Killed"; the children gamboling on the graves ... the one line I can quote (more or less accurately) from memory is, "Your smile was the only thing alive enough to have the strength to die" ... Makes Housman look like - wait a minute, is that one about the dog and grave by Housman? Guess I'd better go back to school ... see you in a few years ...

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 12:21 AM

The demise of a choir can't be as grim as the conclusions of Tess of the D'Urbervilles and Jude the Obscure. Thanks for the recommendation!

SRS

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 06:42 AM

'Under the Greenwood Tree' was his happiest work - no major character is raped, murdered, or suicides, or hung or shot by a deranged lover. The only noted death is that of a friend of themain character (incidentally, the dead man lived in the village I was born in, and had the same surname as my grandfather)...

'Tess' was slated for the murder and alleged rape (come on, she's a country girl, she couldn't be THAT innocent?!) and 'Jude' was dubbed 'Jude the Obscene' because of its content so Hardy vowed never to write another novel. He stuck to writing miserable poetry instead.... not that difficult because he was a particularly morose and taciturn man - my adopted grandfather knew him personally and said he was the most miserly man God ever blew breath into.

LTS

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 07:21 AM

Also, he was architecturally trained, comfortably off, and made his living from the arts, yet with a blank sheet of paper he still ended up having Max Gate built,surely the most depressing of suburban villas.

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 06:16 PM

It's a depressing house because he was mean and skimped on the items he didn't see as 'necessary', like ornamentation or an inside toilet. He paid his servants the bare minimum and never gave anything so generous as Christmas bonuses or boxes to workmen.

LTS

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 11:15 AM

After seeing it: I'm confident the book will be better. :-(

The concertina was waved around, but the playing not even creditably faked.

It's a bit unfair to compare the representation of a concertina playing in a film with the description in a book. The book could simply say "he played a tune on his concertina" or words to that effect, without having to go into any details about which keys he pressed, whether it was an Anglo or English, etc.

Whereas in the film, an actor would have to know how to play a concertina to be able to mime the playing of a tune effectively, to the satisfaction of viewers who know how to play. The answer might be to either (a) only employ an actor who can actually play the concertina for the part; or (b) use a stunt musician to play, with regular cutting between the musician's fingers and the long shot.

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 03:22 PM

Actually, my two statements were not meant to be directly related.

A. My overall impression of the script, acting, soundtrack, etc. was not the best; I'm sure I'll enjoy the book more.

2. If you're going to hand an actor a concertina (which was probably inappropriate in this case, anyway), give them a clue what to do with it. (I wasn't watching the fingering, which would be a lot to ask for) so much as the use of the bellows -- it was an anglo box.) Although, if the production was filmed in the order the scenes appeared, it may have been that the actor fiddled with the instrument (if I may put it that way!) a bit and by the end was doing a little better with it. But, that may be my imagination -- I would think that they'd have taken the reeds out so that the actor's playing wouldn't interfere with other sound recording! There certainly wasn't a close focus on it in the filming, so a high degree of authenticity wasn't required.

But, item 2 was one among several details that didn't work for me in this production. It's one that probably wouldn't have bothered me if I wasn't a concertinaphile, but my overall impression would have been the same: a pleasant show, but uninspiring.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: rich-joy
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 06:38 AM

refresh (for ABC-TV viewers - Down Under)


Cheers, R-J
(who, incidentally, was very disappointed with the sound of the music/singing in this production ..... sigh .....)

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: GUEST,Roland Hutchinson
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 01:09 PM

The bowed string instruments were all anachronistic, as well: modern setup with steel E-string for the violins (audible and at times visible, especially with the string quartet in the garden party), what look to have been steel strings on the contrabass, etc.

In the story's 1850s (more or less) setting, and for a good long time thereafter, the three highest strings of the violins would have been plain gut, as would ALL THREE (not four) of the most likely sort of contrabass to be found in an English village OR an English big-city orchestra. This is apart from the fact that Hardy's novel identifies the cello, not the contrabass. Cello would have been the normal bass instrument for a church quire (in some places that used woodwinds, bassoon or serpent in addition or instead).The Mellstock quire had in its instruentalists the same instrumentation as a string quartet: "treble [i.e. first] violin", "second violin", "tenor [the usual name given to the viola in 19th-century England], and "violoncello." So the whole garden-party "battle of the bands" has had the quire "folked-up" to meet modern audience's expectations of what country bumpkins should be like: concertina in, cellos out. Fiddle and stand-up bass -- instruments of the people.

As has been noted, there was also nothing convincing about the Quire singing mostly in unison, instead of their proper repertoire with its propensity for "fuging" and two- three- or (mostly) four-part harmony.

The scarcity of horse droppings was pehaps to have been expected, as was the fact that there were no evident survivors of smallpox. It's the prettied-up Age of Victoria.

Subject: RE: PBS/BBC Under the Greenwood Tree
From: GUEST,Roland Hutchinson
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 01:13 PM

I have to say, though, that I quite liked the non-diagetic music for strings--what there was of it. (It was more than a bit repetitive.) Pastoral somwhere in-between the styles of Vaughn Williams and Copland).