Oblique song titles- Fair or not?

Subject: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: GUEST,Johnmc
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 01:35 PM

After many head scratchings over the title of Richard Thompson's fine song
"The King of Bohemia", I learn from the man himself it is the name of a pub (To be fair, the setting for the encounter). There must be more examples of this kind of thing. Is it fair practice?

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:13 PM

I believe the "Spanish Castle" by Jimi Hendrix is a club in Seattle and also the B side of "Louie Louie" by the Kingsmen who used to play there.
I'm not sure I've worded this right, Johnmc, but I think I'm on the right track.

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Declan
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:18 PM

What do you think is unfair about it?

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:19 PM

Er..nowt, Declan. Just thoughtI'd join in.

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:23 PM

Many hymns are called by the title the tune was named, sometimes for generations. I understand that in shape-note singing it is traditional. For instance "I'm a Long Time Traveling" actually goes by the name of 'White'.

I don't whether it is 'fair' or not but certainly it is frequently done and in many genre. Think of the pedigreed name of a horse or a dog, and contrast that with the 'call' name.

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Bernard
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:52 PM

Okay, I know I'm stating the obvious here...! I just think it needs to be said to put things in context.

Naming a song isn't usually so difficult, because there is usually a line in the lyric that sums the song up. Using the first line of the first verse, or a line from the chorus, is fairly common practice, but sometimes the writer or collector goes for the more obscure, as is their right.

Occasionally a song has a less obvious title - The Holmfirth Anthem and the Cadgewith Anthem are two such, and their names reflect the 'home' of the song rather than its content. By 'home' I don't mean to imply the orginal source, just its association.

Tunes, simply because they don't have words, are more difficult to name, so it's more common to use names of pubs, villages, what the composer was doing at the time... the list goes on.

An example of three tongue-in-cheek tune titles which are linked is "Falling Through The Ceiling / Getting Up off the Floor / Calling an Ambulance" by Nicola Lyons and Jamie Schofield. The titles came about because of an accident Jamie had, I think...

The question is about the title of a song, but I'd say that the writer of a song or tune has the right to call it by whatever title he or she wishes!

Ted Edwards wrote a song, many years ago, called "Mondays 'Er Does All 'Er Weshing", a daft ditty about a Lancashire lad visiting Buckingham Palace. It was recorded by the Houghton Weavers, and they chose to rename it "H.R.H". Ted still prefers his original title, but isn't bothered as long as the royalty cheques keep coming!

Is it fair practice?

Sorry, I don't understand the question!!

;o)

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:19 PM

The songwriter can give a song whatever name they choose. But that doesn't determine what the song is called by the people who sing it and the people who ask for it.

For example, all these years Eric Bogle has been calling his most famous song "No Man's Land", but it's far more often called either Willie McBride or The Green Fields of France.

I'd be surprised if Richard Thompson doesn't get a fair number of requests for "Let me rock you in my arms" or "The ones God blessed", when they want the one he labelled King of Bohemia. (Sounds more like it might be a song about a pigeon...)

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Bernard
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:26 PM

I often get asked to sing the song about the woman with the hairy tongue...

Her eyes, they shone like diamonds,
They called her the Queen of the land
And her hairy tongue over her shoulder
Tied up with a black velvet band...





...I'll get me coat!

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:30 PM

There's always the "Mrs B. White" song.

















May your days be merry and bright.
And may all your chris MRS. B. WHITE...

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 05:08 PM

You name it what you want, you sumbitch - you name it after yo' mammy, 'f you want!

- Sonny Boy Williamson II to Leonard Chess

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Michael
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 05:37 PM

Writers call it what you will, the public will often call it either by the first line or chorus.
Pete Morton's 'The Battle of Trafalgar' is about a pub.

Mike

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Midchuck
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 05:50 PM

Example: The Berrymans'"A Chat With Your Mother."

Everyone seems to insist that the title is "The F-Word Song."

Peter.

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: frogprince
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 07:06 PM

"Blow up your TV, throw away your paper, go to the country, build you a home.
Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches, try and find Jesus on your own."
                Spanish Pipe Dream, by John Prine.

The internet is sooo factually reliable; all the first few hits for this on Google attribute it to John Denver.

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: GUEST,Scoville at Dad's
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 08:49 PM

I personally don't really care, but then I mostly play old-time music where there either are no lyrics to remind you of the title, or the lyrics are mostly floating verses. Besides, there are way too many songs named after girls named Liza and Susannah, so some of them need to be renamed anyway.

I always want to call "Maid [Girl] Behind the Bar"--a phrase that does not actually appear in the lyrics--"West Side Tavern". "Maid/Girl" is the 'proper' title, though.



As far as amusing linked titles, we used to do:

Road to Lisdoonvarna/Merrily Kiss the Quaker/Haste to the Wedding

and

John Brown's March/Booth Shot Lincoln/Colored Aristocracy . . . also known as the Non-PC Old Unreconstructed Medley. Actually, they're all three great tunes, but "Colored Aristocracy" can be a bit awkward to announce (it's often called "Southern Aristocracy", too, probably for that reason). And "John Brown's" isn't named for the abolitionist, but it's still funny.

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 03:36 AM

John Denver recorded "Spanish Pipe Dream" as "Blow Up Your TV (Spanish Pipe Dream)" on his Aerie album in `71. It is credited there as a John Prine song, though. JD recorded a lot of Prine songs.

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: eddie1
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 04:12 AM

How about "The Fortysecond Highland Division's Farewell To Sicily"? - Doesn't appear anywhere in the lyrics in it's entirety. Haven't tried Googling this. "Banks of Sicily" is more recognisable as is "Fareweel tae Sicily" though this doesn't appear in the lyrics either!
Who cares? It's a great song whatever you call it!

Eddie

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 04:31 AM

A rose by any other name...

We always called my old uncle "that asshole".

It wasn't his name, but it was pretty much accurate.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Flash Company
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 05:01 AM

Reminds me of Benny Green saying he was once asked whilst playing with the Joe Loss Band to play 'Paddy me boy'. when he told the requester(drunk) that they did not know it he said 'You must know it, Glenn Miller played it, 'Paddy me boy, is that the Chattanooga Choo-choo?'

I think I'll go for a lie down!

FC

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Scrump
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 06:59 AM

To return to the original poster's question:

After many head scratchings over the title of Richard Thompson's fine song
"The King of Bohemia", I learn from the man himself it is the name of a pub (To be fair, the setting for the encounter). There must be more examples of this kind of thing. Is it fair practice?

Yes. How could it possibly be otherwise?

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:29 AM

I always thought the worst case of wrong naming was the song that gets asked for as "That's what you are" as they can't remember the title.

"Unforgettable".

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 06:22 PM

Running over some old well-known songs one night with a bandmate to see which ones we might incorporate as sing-alongs into the sets, my buddy's wife suggested, "You guys should do that Hang Dee Down Dee Doody song!"

Buddy stares at his wife blankly for a few seconds.

"You mean Hang Down Your Head, Tom Dooley?" I asked.

"Yeah! That's the one! You know it?"

No further constructive work was accomplished that night. We retired to the beer fridge.

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Ernest
Date: 07 Dec 06 - 05:05 PM

It is said that a local bartender here once misunderstood the line "I`m a man you don`t meet everyday" in "Jock Stewart" - he thought it was "I`m a man that eats meat everyday".

"Jock Stewart" is still known as "The vegetarian song".

Subject: RE: Oblique song titles- Fair or not?
From: Joybell
Date: 07 Dec 06 - 05:35 PM

When performing in public people usually ask me for "that song about....". Or else they give it the most frequently occuring line or word - sometimes the title, sometimes not.
More and more people are naming the latest popular singer who recorded a song as its owner. And that really bugs me. But that's another story.
Cheers, Joy