Two instruments better than one?

Subject: Two instruments better than one?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 01:33 PM

Ok I have bored the tripe out of most people on another issue, here's one on which I seek advice:

Is it it better to learn tunes on two different instruments than on just one. Better in the sense that we get a better grasp of the tunes and that an hour on each would be more effective than two hours on one?

By different I mean say, one fretted and one pipe, or buttons versus keys? Clearly technique comes from the practice on an instrument but grasping and learning tunes, could two routes be better than one?

Oh, and by the way:

TWHINATS

Best wishes

Les

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 01:53 PM

Pipe and tabor? :)

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:34 PM

Les - I am currently trying to get the tunes I can play effortlessly on whistle into a usable form on mandolin !Its always useful to have as many strings for your bow as is possible !!

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:57 PM

Yes, you learn a lot about music by playing more than one instrument. For one thing, if you read music it encourages you to learn to read by hearing in your head what's written and then playing that, as it breaks the "dot here means put that finger there" linkage.
It certainly does no harm and it's amazing how little confusion it causes, even if the instruments are superficially similar.

I find that I tend to play different tunes on different instruments.

Gavin Atkin (from band: Florida) told me recently about taking up the mandolin. As he already played guitar (plucked instrument) and fiddle (same string tuning and fingering) he guessed that the mandolin would be easy to pick up. That was true, but what he wasn't expecting was how much the mandolin is a different musical instrument in its own right, with a different voice and feel and musical vocabulary.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 03:04 PM

I guess it depends on what you mean by "better grasp of the tune."

I do play some tunes on two different instruments.

My personal opinion is that it is a waste of time to try to duplicate a tune arrangement for one instrument on another instrument.

E.g., if you try to duplicate a fiddle tune note for note on a guitar, why not just play the tune on a fiddle?

However, I find that it can be fun to work out appropriate arrangements of the same tune on different instruments, but I wouldn't use the terms "better grasp of the tune" to describe the rewards of the process.

And sometimes it doesn't work at all. I cannot come up with an arrangement that, to my ear, works.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 03:07 PM

Yep. Nothing really teaches you a tune like learning it on another instrument. I call it cross-training.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Willie-O
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 04:00 PM

I don't know that it makes a difference in regards to the quality of your interpretation of a particular tune, but it sure makes you a more versatile musician. If you have the option of playing the same tune on a different instrument, it can make all the difference in a band where one of your instruments is already taken--instead of duplicating someone else (with the close-concentration and compromise that requires to ensure you're playing every odd phrase the same) you can add a whole different flavour. Or, just as useful, you don't have to switch instruments as often.

Finally, when you learn techniques that areusually specific to a particular instrument, they can often be applied on a different instrument to good effect. EG you can play mandolin-style tremolo on a guitar, and do other things to imitate mando sound (chop chords, play way up the neck) if someone else is playing a conventional guitar part. Also, you get used to particular intervals that are natural to finger on mandolin or fiddle--but you have to really work at it to get them on guitar!

W-O

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Ernest
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 04:12 PM

...and also people will love you if you turn up with an accordion AND a bodhran!!!!















Hey, why don`t you take up banjo as a third instrument then?

Ducking for cover...
Ernest

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:17 PM

"people will love you if you turn up with an accordion AND a bodhran!!!"

Normally not possible to play both at once, although some guys might have balls enough to give it a go....

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:25 PM

I'd suggest three really. I know that when I learned "Pop Goes the Weasel" on Noseflute it gave me an even deeper insight into the symbolism than when I played it on either Jaw Harp or Sousaphone.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 04:56 AM

I couldn't do Duelling Banjoes without the kazoo.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:13 AM

Yes, it's always a good idea to have a spare handy, in case anything happens to the first one.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: GUEST,Donald
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 06:51 AM

I play fiddle and have probably tended to rely too much on the dots, but I have found that learning tunes on D whistle have commited those tunes to memory more quickly, as Cluin says. And as Guest and Cluin said above, it's probably a good way of breaking the link between dots and fingering.

If there are say too many fiddles (never the case!) or whatever, it's also nice to add variety of sound in a session by picking up an alternative instument.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:10 AM

Thanks for all that.

I guess I had in mind the idae of cross-training that Cluin mentions. Do any music teachers have a view on this?

TWHINATS


Les

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:35 AM

I don't think being able to play some of the same melodies on different instruments has made any real difference to my thinking of music nor has playing the same plain GCD chords.

I think I'd need to be doing something more different with the tunes I play. In my case actually learning chords that work well with Irish tunes where the plain chords don't really work or perhaps getting round to learning a few bass lines would be good ideas.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 11:40 AM

I can play most of the tunes I play on either Yamaha or Gibson guitars...no problem.

Spot the Dog

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 07:23 PM

Cluin, I thot cross training is what Jesus got.   








As he headed for the door.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Scoville
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:36 PM

Honest to God, I don't believe I know anyone who plays fewer than three instruments. There's some kind of unwritten law that says that all old-time musicians play guitar and two other instruments.

I don't know if it helps me or not--I never thought of it like that--but certainly some tunes work better on some instruments than others, which encourages me to learn more tunes. I still tend to use piano or guitar to pick out unfamiliar tunes since they have keys/frets; dulcimer sometimes can't handle that since it's not chromatic and I'm not confident enough yet that I can pick out true notes on the fiddle.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: GUEST,Donald
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 05:00 AM

EBarnacle
I regard your comments as blasphemous in the extreme.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 05:23 AM

Carrying two double basses might be a problem though. Best to just have one quadruple bass.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 05:47 AM

I don't find that, Scoville but very loosely in terms of "main" instrument.

fiddle, banjo, flute, accordion etc. players can also play guitar and sing.
guitar players can play guitar and sing.
singers can sing.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Nick
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 05:53 AM

>>"people will love you if you turn up with an accordion AND a bodhran!!!"
Normally not possible to play both at once, although some guys might have balls enough to give it a go....

You play the bodhran with your balls?

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 05:58 AM

Yes, you could strap the bodhran to your waist and rock back and forth in time to the tune you are playing on the accordion.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:15 AM

I ask a perfectly serious question about learning to play tunes and you lot turn it into an exchange of what is clearly bondage practice!

Thankyou, it adds a whole new set of possibilities to the festivities.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: GUEST,Donald
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:47 AM

Scoville's got it - I can't think of many of my mates who play only one instrument - we all seem to dabble in at least a couple of others.

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: GUEST,D
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:47 AM

Hi Nick

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 09:37 AM

I find if the washboard doesn't empty the room, the kazoo does, but the voice does it quicker...

RtS

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 09:52 AM

And the guy playing the accordion and the bodhran at the same time (in the novel manner described above) would empty it fastest of all!

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Scoville
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 10:23 AM

GUEST--well, most of them have main instruments other that guitar, but can play at least chords in a pinch. They don't consider themselves guitar players--they consider themselves banjo players or fiddlers or whatever who can fill in on guitar. Nobody needs that many guitarists, anyway. (I'm a dulcimer player who plays guitar because dulcimer isn't a good band instrument and because I haven't gotten that good on fiddle yet, and because I'm better than most of the other guitar pinch-hitters in the group. But guitar is not my best instrument.)

Subject: RE: Two instruments better than one?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:15 PM

Try learning a wind instrument.... the discipline of breathing into phrases can make the whole difference to a tune.

It also gives you bastard guitarists an idea of how difficult it is to keep up with a wind instrument when you speed up the tune!

LTS