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Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York

DigiTrad:
THE DUKE OF YORK


In Mudcat MIDIs:
Duke of York (The Grand Old)
The Grand Old Duke of York


mackay 07 Mar 97 - 11:24 AM
Susan of DT 07 Mar 97 - 04:51 PM
Anne Cormack 08 Mar 97 - 10:10 AM
Joe Offer 08 Mar 97 - 04:35 PM
Alex 11 Mar 97 - 02:32 AM
dick greenhaus 11 Mar 97 - 10:36 AM
Karen 12 Mar 97 - 03:12 PM
dick greenhaus 13 Mar 97 - 01:09 PM
mackay 13 Mar 97 - 05:45 PM
Paul 30 Mar 97 - 01:43 AM
GUEST,David 10 Jul 03 - 07:31 AM
GUEST,Jimmy 10 Jul 03 - 09:34 PM
Billy the Bus 10 Jul 03 - 10:27 PM
delphinium 10 Jul 03 - 11:23 PM
Doug Chadwick 11 Jul 03 - 02:35 AM
alanabit 11 Jul 03 - 02:55 AM
Keith A of Hertford 11 Jul 03 - 03:10 AM
ooh-aah 11 Jul 03 - 03:11 AM
bill\sables 11 Jul 03 - 08:29 AM
The Walrus 11 Jul 03 - 09:08 PM
Little Robyn 12 Jul 03 - 06:07 PM
Mountain Dog 12 Jul 03 - 09:21 PM
Kevin Sheils 13 Jul 03 - 05:08 AM
Joe Offer 14 Jan 04 - 02:19 AM
AKS 15 Jan 04 - 06:27 AM
GUEST,JarJarBinks 06 Apr 04 - 11:01 PM
GUEST,guest mick 06 Apr 04 - 11:22 PM
s&r 07 Apr 04 - 04:04 AM
joanna 07 Apr 04 - 04:04 PM
joanna 08 Apr 04 - 11:08 AM
red max 14 Feb 05 - 08:01 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 14 Feb 05 - 09:18 AM
GUEST 05 Apr 05 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,Murray on Salt Spring 05 Apr 05 - 04:20 PM
Tyke 05 Apr 05 - 04:41 PM
brid widder 05 Apr 05 - 06:11 PM
Chris Green 05 Apr 05 - 08:06 PM
GUEST 12 Apr 05 - 11:25 AM
GUEST,Bill Rigg 12 May 05 - 01:03 AM
GUEST,Allen 15 Jun 05 - 03:04 PM
GUEST,Someone incognito 12 Sep 07 - 05:49 PM
Azizi 12 Sep 07 - 07:25 PM
GUEST,Öjevind Lång 31 Dec 07 - 12:44 PM
GUEST 20 Nov 08 - 08:28 PM
Joe Offer 20 Nov 08 - 08:53 PM
GUEST,Suffolk Miracle 21 Nov 08 - 08:06 AM
Snuffy 21 Nov 08 - 08:06 AM
Jim Dixon 22 Nov 08 - 12:17 PM
GUEST,History teacher 09 Nov 09 - 05:05 PM
Betsy 09 Nov 09 - 07:35 PM
CET 09 Nov 09 - 08:18 PM
Tattie Bogle 09 Nov 09 - 08:34 PM
GUEST,Michigan - USA 16 Nov 09 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,no one you know 13 Jan 10 - 05:48 PM
GUEST 03 Mar 10 - 11:23 PM
GUEST,Geoff Wright 20 Mar 10 - 01:21 PM
GUEST,Trasdan MacGhaid 29 Jul 11 - 07:29 AM
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Subject: ADD: Grand Old Duke of York
From: mackay
Date: 07 Mar 97 - 11:24 AM

I'm looking for the proper wording to the Grand Old Duke
of York. It goes roughly like this:

The Grand Old Duke of York, He had 10000 men
He marched them all right up the hill
And marched them down again
And when they're up, they're up
And when they're down, they're down
And when they're only half way up
They're neither up nor down.

This is a really fun song with actions and everything.
Any and all help is greatly appreciated.


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: Susan of DT
Date: 07 Mar 97 - 04:51 PM

That's all I have ever heard of it


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: Anne Cormack
Date: 08 Mar 97 - 10:10 AM

That's all I've ever heard too, except we used to "March right up to the top of the hill, and march right down again." The Grand Old Duke of York" used to be a favourite all through primary school in Edinburgh (Scotland). The same verse was repeated until all the kids had "gone up the hill and come down again".


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Subject: ADD: Grand Old Duke of York
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Mar 97 - 04:35 PM

The Grand Old Duke of York 

He had 10000 men

He marched them up the hill
[everyone stands up]
And he marched them down again
[everyone sits down]
And when they were up, they were up
[everyone up]
And when they were down, they were down
[everyone down]
And when they were in the middle
[everyone midway]
They were neither up nor down.
[up] [down]

As it was done in the Racine County Council, Boy Scouts of America.


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: Alex
Date: 11 Mar 97 - 02:32 AM

When I was a kid in Perthshire, Scotland, The Grand Old Duke Of York was a simple dance. The boys and girls paired off and formed a double line, boys one side, partners on the other. When the music started, the first couple (usually nearest the band or record player) joined hands and skipped all the way down the line between the boys and girls. Everyone sang the song: "Oh, the Grand Old Duke of York, he had ten thousand men, He marched them up to the top of the hill and he marched them down again". The couple in the middle had now changed direction and skipped all the way back up to their original positions, they released hands and the boy skipped to the outside the boys' row, followed in a chain by the other boys, while the girl skipped to the outside of the girls row, followed by all the girls. When they got to the other end of the row, where the last couple had previously been, the first couple faced each other, joined hands and made an arch with their arms through which all the other couples, who had now joined hands, had to duck and pass through. So after all the couples had passed through the arch, the second couple were now at the top, the first couple were now at the bottom of the line and the entire thing started again. It sounded pretty tedious but the fun part was that the couple making the arch could try to bring their arms down around a passing couple and if they snared them, the only way out was for the snared couple to kiss! Lots of bribery and corruption took place and some of the guys used their soccer skills to dive to the floor to evade that snare.


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Mar 97 - 10:36 AM

Hi- For what it's worth, a very similar singing dance (we call them playparties) was collected in Kentucky ca 1948. Same dance (as I recall), same words (except it was "Noble Duke of York")


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: Karen
Date: 12 Mar 97 - 03:12 PM

Same as Dick--in Georgia in the 1960s, it was the Noble Duke of York.--played on the playground with two lines of kids facing each other and a pair would scoot up the line of kids and back down again while singing. (What can I say--we had no playground equipment. . . )


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Mar 97 - 01:09 PM

Hi- An interesting (to me, at least) point about playparties: They were (are) sung unaccompanied. Fiddle playing, it seems, was sinful. Public kissing, on t'other hand, was (is) OK.


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: mackay
Date: 13 Mar 97 - 05:45 PM

Thanx for all your input. I was especially interested about the different dances. I told you it was a fun song!


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: Paul
Date: 30 Mar 97 - 01:43 AM

If I remember my schoolboy history, the song commemorated a particularly useless campaign by the English Army in Flanders or somewhere in the Netherlands, during the 18th century. I've probably got the details wildly wrong, but the general point explains the fatuity of the song.


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: GUEST,David
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 07:31 AM

Hi,

    The Grand Old Duke of York,
    He had Ten Thousand Men
    He marched Them up to the Top of the Hill
    And He marched Them down again.

    When They were Up They were Up
    When They were Down They were Down
    And When They were only Half-Way Up
    They were Neither Up nor Down!

NB: English nursery rhyme lyrics often differ from the American :-)


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: GUEST,Jimmy
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 09:34 PM

hi i remember the song well but where I come from (Fife Scotland) we had a chorus too . Fife had many coal mines and I guess thats where the chorus comes from it goes      

Coal for Dysart Dysart coal
:   :    :       :    :
:   :    :       :    :
:   :    :       :    :   

If there's a connection with the Grand old Duke I cant see it   
but thats the way we sang it and very melodic it was to
Sorry you cant hear The melody as it was different from the Verse


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 10:27 PM

In the 40s in NZ we used the same words as Makay, and like others I don't recall any more. The dance was as described by Alex, except I don't recall the snared couple kissing. I'm whistling the tune now, if anyone is listening ... ;)

Those old kids' games certainly got round the world pretty much intact.

Cheers - Sam in NZ


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: delphinium
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 11:23 PM

From this site:

THE GRAND OLD DUKE OF YORK

Oh! The grand old Duke of York
He had ten thousand men
He marched them up to the top of the hill
And he marched them down again
And when they were up they were up
And when they were down they were down
And when they were only half way up
They were neither up nor down

Oh! The grand old Duke of York
He had ten thousand men
They banged their drums as they went up the hill
And they banged them down again
And when they were up ...

Oh! The grand old Duke of York
He had ten thousand men
They tootled their flutes as they marched up the hill
And they tootled them down again
And when they were up ...

===

Re the origin of this nursery rhyme, info from here says:

The Duke of York was Frederick Augustus, the second son of George III.
There is nothing in his military career that even remotely resembles the actions in the rhyme, so it is possible that someone who disliked him adapted an old rhyme which went:

The King of France went up the hill
With forty thousand men.
The King of France came down the hill
And ne'er went up again.

[In some versions it's ten thousand men.]

===

And this site says that the King of France nursery rhyme originated from the earlier "There was an old woman tossed up in a basket" one. These two rhymes are allegedly both about King Henry V - the "old woman" one mocking his unrealistic ambitions to conquer France, and the "King of France" one about his victory at Agincourt in 1415 where he captured the King of France and routed the whole French army with a small army, against all odds.

But this is speculation - somebody should check in Opies or another good source on nursery rhymes.


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 02:35 AM

The grand old Duchess of York
She had ten thousand men !!


Now THAT's a story for the tabloids


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 02:55 AM

I wonder if someone will come up with the story behind the song. I would be surprised if it actually took place in Flanders or the Netherlands, because these places are not known especiallly for having steep hills. From a history lesson over thirty years ago, I know that it concerns a campaign at the beginning of the Revolutionary Wars of France (pre Napoleonic I believe). I also know that it was a good, old fashioned British military disaster. With a few notable exceptions, most of our military expeditions to the Continent have met with about as much success as our cuisine!


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 03:10 AM

Notable exceptions being WW1, WW2, Napoleonic, Peninsular, !00 Years War etc?


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: ooh-aah
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 03:11 AM

What rot Alan! We alternately kicked French bottoms and saved them from their neighbors with great success for years and years on the continent, starting at Crecy and going through Agincourt, the campaigns of Marlborough, Wellington in Portugal, Spain and France, Waterloo, the Crimea, and the First and Second World Wars. But there's no doubt that it took a while for us to get hang of the new French Revolutionary tactics, which is when the poor old Duke of York comes in, staggering haplessly around Flanders vastly outnumbered, with his men freezing and starving in ditches. But it was an ill wind - there was a young officer who 'learned what not to do, and that is always something' - he later became the Duke of Wellington.
   The Duke of York, by the way, while not much use on the ground, was a damn good army reformer, something he never gets remembered for.


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: bill\sables
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 08:29 AM

There is a mock medeival castle called Grimstone Castle near the York Wetherby road at the side of the A1 in Yorkshire. The castle is now owned by the owner of Tandy / Carphone Warehouse. This is the site reputed to be where The Duke of York marched his men. for military training.
Another little story regarding the castle is that when the present owner applied to the local council for a lake he was told he couldn't have one "You can only have a puddle" they said. When he asked what constituted a puddle thay said it was a pool filled by rain water. So he dug a large hole and waited for the rain. He now has a large lake on his grounds.
Cheers Bill


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: The Walrus
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 09:08 PM

I too have heard the origin of this song related to the Duke of York in Flanders in the 'French Revolutionary Wars'.
IIRC the campaign was around the 1796 mark and was satirised in cartoons by Gilray et al as "The Wet Party" - it was basically a lesson in how not to campaign.

Walrus


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: Little Robyn
Date: 12 Jul 03 - 06:07 PM

How about the tune? It sounds like 'Trelawney' to me.

'And shall Trelawney live?
Or shall Trelawney die?
Here's 20 thousand Cornishmen
Shall know the reason why.'

Anyone know which came first?


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 12 Jul 03 - 09:21 PM

Doug Chadwick,

One good tale of scandal deserving another, your tabloid version about the Duke's distaff side brings to mind a verse whipped out some years ago by the ska singer, Judge Dread:

Oh the noble Duke of York,
He had ten thousand men,
And if he'd had the energy,
He'd have had them all again!


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 13 Jul 03 - 05:08 AM

Lester Simpson rewrote the words to fit the first world war trenches for Coope Boyes and Simpson's, and some wonderful Belgian performers "Concert Party in Passchedaele" as

Good old General Haig had thirty thousand men
He marched them up to the Pilkem Ridge
And he marched them down again
And when they were up they were up
And when they were down they were down
But most of the time they were up to their balls
In a sea of liquid brown.

If it hadn't been attributed to Lester in the notes I'd have assumed it was a parody from the WW1 period itself.


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 02:19 AM

Would you believe that this song made it into the Traditional Ballad Index?
-Joe Offer-

Noble Duke of York, The

DESCRIPTION: "Oh, the Noble Duke of York, He had (ten) thousand men, He marched them up to the top of the hill And he marched them down again. And when they were up, they were up, And when they were down they were down...."
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1894 (Gomme)

KEYWORDS: army nonballad
FOUND IN: US(SE)
REFERENCES (2 citations):
BrownIII 99, "The Duke of York" (1 text)
Silber-FSWB, p. 390, "The Noble Duke of York" (1 text)

ST FSWB390B (Full)
Roud #742

Notes: Since the Dukedom of York is usually bestowed upon the Prince of Wales's oldest brother, or other fairly senior prince, there have been a lot of them in history, and many of them important. This makes it hard to guess which Duke of York (if any) might be the subject of this little satire. I've seen suggestions over the years, but not one was convincing enough for me to remember it.
The standard suggestion seems to be that it was Frederick Augustus (1763-1827), second son of George III, who was made a soldier in spite of a clear lack of ability in this department. But I can imagine candidates going back all the way to Richard, Duke of York from 1415.
(The Shakespeare characterization of that York, it should be noted, is all wrong. He *was* rightful King of England, but he never sought the throne until Margaret of Anjou forced him to do so. Hence a sufficiently anti-Lancastrian partisan could have mocked him for his hesitation.)
Gomme describes this as the music for a game, "Find the Ring." - RBW
File: FSWB390B


Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions

The Ballad Index Copyright 2005 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


Here's the entry from the Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore, Volume III, Folk songs:

    The Duke of York

    The noble Duke of York
    He had three thousand men
    He marched them up the hill one day
    And then he marched them down again.
    And when he was up he was up
    And when he was down he was down
    But when he was only half-way up
    He was neither up nor down
Notes: This old English singing game or jingle (Gomme I 121-2, Halliwell 12, Northall 98-9) is known everywhere, especially to college students. It is recorded as a traditional song in Pennsylvania and North Carolina; otherwise collectors haven not thought it worth while to report it.

"The Duke of York," contributed by the Misses Holeman of Durham in July, 1922.


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: AKS
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 06:27 AM

If I remember correctly, Eric Burdon has recorded it. Any others?

AKS


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: GUEST,JarJarBinks
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 11:01 PM

The Grand ole duke of york...
and when they're only halfway up
they were neither up or down...

He, marched them to the left
He, marched them to the right...

that's all I know


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: GUEST,guest mick
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 11:22 PM

Same tune to Trelawney as mentioned above. Peter Kennedy in notes to the Cornish Section of Folk Songs of The British Isles quotes a Cornish tin miners song .It has lines like " when we're up we're up and when we're down we're down " - referring to the mine. Other songs in the section have similar tunes.


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: s&r
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 04:04 AM

We always sang it in chorus: on the first repetition all the 'ups' were missed out; on the second one all 'downs' were omitted...and so on ad nauseam. It can be an elimination game, where anyone who says - say - 'up' where they shouldn't is 'out'.

stu


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: joanna
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 04:04 PM

I once visited a Country House named on the outskirts of York--
   where it was said the rhyme fist originated, the story told of The Duke of York commitioning 10000 men to build him a large and very deep lake in the grounds, they dug down and the soil was then taken to a site also in the grounds to build a huge hill, hense when they were up they were up and when they were down they were down.
Ive also heard the verses using the drums and flutes but never heard the story behind them.


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: joanna
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:08 AM

I think the house was called Allerton Hall but maybe mistaken.


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: red max
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 08:01 AM

It's known as Allerton castle, and got severely damaged in a fire recently

I was sent a version of this that someone heard in the Herga club, in which several verses are added. The Duke marches his men in and out of woods, through rivers etc. and with each indignity their numbers diminish until they've all given up on him. I have no idea who added these, but would love to know the author


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Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 09:18 AM

Mackay ........ I do a version of this and the second time round miss out the word UP

The Grand old Duke of York he had 10,000 men
he marched them ... to the top and the hill
and he marched them down again
and when they were ... they were ...
and when they were down they were down
and when they were only half way .. they were neither .. nor down

then the next round miss out down instead, and finally miss out up AND down

The grand old Duke of York he had 10000 men
he march them .. to the top of the hill
and he marched them ...again
and when they were ... they were ...
and when they were ... they were ...
and when they were only half way ... they were neither .. nor ...

If you eliminate people for singing the up or down words when they shouldn't you'll probably find your the only person left standing (unless of course you cock it up !)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 12:38 PM

He marched them to the left
He marched them to the right
does any one know the rest of this verse


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST,Murray on Salt Spring
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 04:20 PM

Tune of the Fife chorus Jimmy mentions above [in sol-fa]:

d--d dmrd s,-t,- r---/ r--r rfmr d-m- s---

s--s ss-- f-l- l---/ s--s sfmr d-m- d---//


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: Tyke
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 04:41 PM

I think you have all missed the point of the song. Feel free to correct me if I have missed something. This to me is one of the greatest Peace Songs ever! No Actions just keep singing...

The Grand Old Duke of York,
He had Ten Thousand Men
He marched Them up to the Top of the Hill
And He marched Them down again.

When They were Up They were Up
When They were Down They were Down
And When They were only Half-Way Up
They were Neither Up nor Down!

Over and over again till they get the point


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: brid widder
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 06:11 PM

I heard a story of two pupils, Smith & Jones, writing an essay for an exam about this song... this sentence was the consequence....

Smith, who unlike Jones had had had, had had had had, had had had had a better effect on the examiners ... sorry


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: Chris Green
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 08:06 PM

Oh the Grand Old Duke of York
He marched around the town
Sometimes with his trousers up
And sometimes with them down
And when they were up they were up
And when they were down they were down
And when they were only halfway up
He was arrested

(paraphrased from Spike Milligan)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 11:25 AM

The second verse, as far as I recall, goes:

He, marched them to the left
He, marched them to the right
He marched them 'round about the hill
And he marched them out of sight.

and if you've been doing the "get up when we sing 'up'" version you can now step left, step right, turn around, and cover your eyes. This is fun with preschoolers and lower elementary school kids.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST,Bill Rigg
Date: 12 May 05 - 01:03 AM

My father was born in Todmorden, (West) Yorkshire in 1898. This is the version he taught me:

The Noble Duke of York
he had 10,000 men.
He marched them up to the top of the hill
and he marched them down again.
And when they were up they were up they were up,
and when they were down they were down,
and when they were half way up the hill they were neither up nor down.

My father would hold my arms as he sang, and raise them at the "up" lyrics, lower them on the "down" lyrics, put them half-way up for "half way up the hill."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST,Allen
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 03:04 PM

Actualy, I'm not so sure it is a peace song. Try substituting the name of your boss or manager for the Duke of York.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST,Someone incognito
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 05:49 PM

So as far as i can tell from this, the whole song is:

THE GRAND OLD DUKE OF YORK

Oh! The grand old Duke of York
He had ten thousand men
He marched them up to the top of the hill
And he marched them down again
And when they were up they were up
And when they were down they were down
And when they were only half way up
They were neither up nor down

Oh! The grand old Duke of York
He had ten thousand men
They banged their drums as they went up the hill
And they banged them down again
And when they were up they were up
And when they were down they were down
And when they were only half way up
They were neither up nor down

Oh! The grand old Duke of York
He had ten thousand men
They tooted their flutes as they marched up the hill
And they tooted them down again
And when they were up they were up
And when they were down they were down
And when they were only half way up
They were neither up nor down

He, marched them to the left
He, marched them to the right
He marched them 'round about the hill
And he marched them out of sight.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 07:25 PM

Alex Date: 11 Mar 97 - 02:32 AM description about how he remembers this rhyme being performed was interesting reading.

I guess it's a missed opportunity to ask what ages where the boys and girls who performed this dance that sometimes involved kissing. If this was similar to playparties, weren't they done by teens and not [just] by children younger than 12 years old.

Still, today-at least in the United States-I doubt that very many "elementary school age" children [5-12 year old] or very many teens would on their on perform this singing game/dance. And if adults introduced it to children and/or teens during a school vocal music class or an after-school session, I can imagine many males and females being unwilling to do this game, especially the kissing part.

I'm not saying that everything about those days was good, but I think we've lost a lot of our innocence if girls and boys can't play like this in public anymore.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST,Öjevind Lång
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 12:44 PM

The Oxford University Press' "Dictonary of Quotations" has the following version:

The noble Duke of York,
He had ten thousand men,
He marched them up to the top of the hill,
And he marched them down again.
And when they were up, they were up,
And when they were down, they were down,,
And when they were only half way up,
They were neither up nor down.

It adds the information that its was "first printed in A. Rackham: *Mother Goose' (1913)."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 08:28 PM

wow....as a music teacher of K-2 students we play this game often. The 3rd verse I was taught by my professors while studying for my Msaters was
       "A hunting we will go, a hunting we will go,we'll catch a
         fox and put him in a box and never let him go." (repeat)
Clearly this verse was made up as it seems to have nothing to do with the Duke or a battle.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 08:53 PM

Hi - I'd say "A-hunting We Will Go" is a separate song, with the same tune. We have it here (click) in the Digital Tradition Folk Song Database.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 08:06 AM

I seem to recall a Cornish mining song along the lines of:

A-mining we will go
A-mining we will go
With pick and shovel in our hand
A-mining we will go
And when we're up were're up
And when we're down we're down
But when we're only half way up
We're two miles underground.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: Snuffy
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 08:06 AM

A-hunting We Will Go, the Grand Old Duke of York and The Nutting Girl have seen a lot of interchange of tunes over the years. When The Nutting Girl is played in sessions round here as a Morris jig (with slows) it is not unusual for all to sing over the final bars:

A-hunting we will go, my boys,
A-hunting we will go,
We'll catch a little fox
And put him in a box
And never let him go

This refrain is also not unkown to primary school children, but for them "never" becomes "then we'll"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 12:17 PM

From Mother Goose's Melodies for Children, Or Songs for the Nursery by Henry Louis Stephens, Gaston Fay. (New York: Hurd and Houghton, 1869), page 113:

The King of France went up the hill,
With twenty thousand men;
The King of France came down the hill,
And ne'er went up again.

[The following comes from an endnote, page 184:]

In a tract, called "Pigges Corantoe, or Newes from the North," 4to, London, 1642, page 3, this is called "Old Tarlton's Song." Richard Tarleton was an actor contemporary with Shakespeare, and was famous for playing the clown in his plays, and in those of others. He died in the year 1588. A common variation is the following:—

The King of France marched up the hill,
With twenty thousand men,
And when he got them up the hill,
He marched them down again.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST,History teacher
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 05:05 PM

I guess its to much to hope for that it was relating to the Battle of Bunker Hill right? It would help my lesson though.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: Betsy
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 07:35 PM

The song seems to show what a useless twat, the son of George III was - as useless as his knobhead father.
Many thanks to Joe's references (above) 14 Jan 04 - 02:19 AM . It is simply confirming that George III who was a a complete dipstick , sired equally useless dipsticks.
I give no credence to "tootlers" and "banging of drums" as I, in all my years, have only ever heard the one elongated verse (quoted by many above).However I can understand if someone wished to pad-out the song whilst entertaining kids and the song was / occasion was going down well. That's show biz !


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: CET
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 08:18 PM

Actually, Betty, the song doesn't "show" anything. It's just a song, not evidence of any historical fact.

Talking of historical fact, the Duke of York was anything but a useless twat. He was no battlefield commander, true enough, but as Commander in Chief he was a genuine visionary who created, against incredible odds, an efficient wartime army from the mess that was the post-American Revolution peacetime British Army. This was the army that Wellington led in the Peninsular War and at Waterloo. If it was not for the Duke of York, Arthur Wellesley would never have become the Duke of Wellington.

The rhyme does not, as History teacher suspects, refer to Bunker Hill, but either to the Duke of York's campaigns in Flanders in 1793-94, or possibly to a campaign five years later in Holland.

Edmund


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 08:34 PM

We do it as part of a ceilidh set, especially if it's a family ceilidh with kids there.
And NOT quite the SAME tune as Trelawny methinks tho' similar in parts.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST,Michigan - USA
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 08:20 AM

The noble Duke of York,
He had ten thousand men,
He marched them to the top of the hill,
And marched them down again.

And when they're up, they're up,
And when they're down, they're down,
And when they're only half way up,
They're neither up nor down.

He marched them to the left
He marched them to the right
He marched them all the way upside down
What a silly sight.

At least 30 years ago the 'nursery rhyme' had evolved into entertainment for a youngster (less than two yrs old) bouncing them on your knees while sitting, on the floor or on a chair. Floor worked best.

Child sits on adult's legs. Adult alternating their legs for 'marching' verse. Then bent knees and knees straight out for the 'up and down' verse. Toddler also has to be light enough to turn upside down. It's got to be a bumpy ride for the toddler with lots of giggles.

Tune is the same as "The Farmer in the Dell" and "A Hunting We Will Go".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST,no one you know
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 05:48 PM


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 11:23 PM

He marched them around and around and around and he marched them down again


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST,Geoff Wright
Date: 20 Mar 10 - 01:21 PM

And when they were only half way up
They were in the Rose and Crown


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Grand Old Duke of York
From: GUEST,Trasdan MacGhaid
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 07:29 AM

In the 1980's The Grand Old Duke of York was a very common dance at Ceilidh (dances) in/around Dundee University. I have ever since considered it to be a Scottish Country Dance.


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