folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 11:46 PM

I was thinking about this subject just last week at our folk club.There's a young girl who comes along as she is friendly with one of our singers through her church. Another couple are in their 40's - however, everyone else in in their 50's, 60's and 70's. The MC is about mid-60's. In 20 yrs time, that would make most of us in our 70's, 80's and 90's!! When I started going to folk clubs 30 yrs ago in the mid-70's, a lot of the same members were around then, only we were all 30yrs younger of course and not a grey hair in sight! So, although we had over 40 members in the audience last week, we are all getting older together. I know there are a few young 'uns out there but there don't seem to be enough to go round...


Arnie

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 03:24 PM

Alive. Folk music is a timeless everlasting undercurrent just below ground level of popular culture. It flows forever.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: skipy
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 07:45 AM

Trust me, the music is very alive, my 14 years old is off to his first morris ale in about 2 hours, with his melodeon!
Skipy.
Morris on!

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 06:28 AM

If you want thousands of responses you may need to give it more than 5 days.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Alec
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 06:27 AM

I see no reason why different musical styles should not be attempted in one performance.
I remember a trio of young lasses in Newcastle who used to sing acapella versions of whatever took their fancy on the last bus home on a Friday night.
This included a medley of I Will Survive & Cushie Butterfield which I really,really wish they had recorded.
That is valid, the music belongs to all of us & will be whatever we make it.
It will survive.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Mississippi Saxaphone
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 06:14 AM

what a poor response - maybe the music is already dead. Personally I think it needs to follow the jazz route and come out of the clubs and into the general area of pubs. In my home town there is a good acoustic music scene but you have to have a flexible reportoire and be entertaining. It is good though to see pub goers who hear some folk mixed in to a varied reportoire say how much they enjoyed the music.

Any thoughts on this ???

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Peace
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 05:38 PM

"There are always going to be new people who will be drawn to the mysterious light that shimmers inside great folk music!"

THAT is a beautifully stated thought. True, too.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: skipy
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 05:35 PM

Peace, maybe, it is dead, maybe we are the dead!
I see singers! I see dancers! I see musicians!
Skipy.
But I don't see Bruce Willis

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: david from cleckhuddisfax
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 05:32 PM

Keeping it alive is all about removing preconceptions and categories.
I love to hear a hands in the ear gutteral song sang with emotion and passion,just as much as i delight in hearing a 14 yr old sqwuak out some shy emotion.Weve all just got open our hearts and minds to all who want to give some performance and applaud their passion be it good or bad,trad or mad,folk aucoustic,blues or country old or new ,just be a wellcome audience and it will still be there in 2oo yrs.   Anon

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 05:08 PM

Maybe the clubs will die out, but folkmusic will NEVER die out. Let me explain.

It is all to do with an ownership of the club. It is no wonder that young people don't attend them, they have no ownership of them. In this I mean they weren't alive when Martin Carthy, Nick Jones, Fairport, Steeleye, Billy Connelly popularised it and people went in droves to clubs. They weren't there when there was a club in every town. So if they weren't there then, what makes you think they would suddenly appear now?

It is also generational, the folk club generation had a whale of a time,and still is. They are great places. But they are not created by todays generation, they have no place there (ie It is not theres). They did not create them so it will never feel like home to them.


If the clubs did die out, IT WOULD NOT BE THE END!!! Out of nothing a new format would emerge for a new generation. Folkmusic would not just survive our folk clubs closing it would probably get stronger through it.

anon

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: bubblyrat
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 04:00 PM

We ALL hope Kitty will be singing in twenty,nay,thirty,years time !!

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 03:38 PM

Well, I just hope I'll still be singing 20 years from now....

I fell into folk music when I was 15, because some friends took me along, and I just loved it (admittedly this was the late 1960s). And still do!

Kitty

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: lilly
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 12:55 PM

Took my bloke to Sidmouth last year, his first time. We went to a number of 'late night extras' at Bulverton-he couldn't believe the marquee was full of ,as he put it, 'young people' ie lots younger than us, in body if not in mind! If I'd told him a few hundred teenagers/twentysomethings were dancing and listening to 'folk music' and having a great time he would have thought I was fibbing!
Was really impressed when everyone sat enthralled to watch the winner of the memorial jig competition!
Don't think we really have anything to worry about for the future.They're all out there but just maybe not attending clubs.
I know when I was at art college I never let on to a soul that I liked listening to morris tunes, thought I'd loose street cred! There must have been lots like me-and here we all are now!!'Out of the closet' !
As to bubblyrats thing in the pub at Sidmouth, just arrogant youth with a few things to learn in life!!

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: GUEST,Elaine
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 07:23 AM

Alive, Alive-O!

As many have already written here, the clubs may go; but, let's face it--they are a fairly recent innovation anyway, and have become something of an 'establishment' that probably ultimately is more of a hindrance than a help to the folk process. Not that I don't enjoy a good, comfortable folk club myself from time to time.

And I think they will come back periodically, waxing and waning like interest in most anything else that's worthwhile. And playing in the house with friends is (I sure hope) never going to be completely replaced with lone individuals hacking away at their keyboards on some version of "garageband" adapted to folk music, generating their own hootenannies.

And folk music itself--was it Dylan who said something to the effect that it is too weird to die?

There are always going to be new people who will be drawn to the mysterious light that shimmers inside great folk music!

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Peace
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:05 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Jim Lad
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 09:41 PM

Ever feel like you're a novelty at a Folk Festival?

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Peace
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:59 PM

Hell, it may be dead already given that some folks have a narrow definition of the term.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: moongoddess
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:50 PM

I think folk music will be alive and well twenty years from now. All the folkies will be singing nostalgic songs about the war in Iraq! Even traditional folk music will remain. I play with a group of musicians in Rhode Island who get together to play old-timey music. We have guest artists from around the state who come and teach us the old songs that were never written down. Many of the members of our group are young kids in the 8 - 12 age group and college aged kids who love this type of music. Folk music will never die, but it may evolve.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: skipy
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:28 PM

Alive, but this nanny state will try to crush it, they may have to meet secretly in cells, not known to each other!
Skipy

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Jim Lad
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:23 PM

You know; I was just asking someone that, about twenty years ago.
Name was Rodentred or something like that.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:16 PM

Dead or alive?

Undead. Like John Barleycorn.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:50 AM

What happened to all this "folk is cool" stuff I was hearing about last year? Presumably something else has taken its place as the flavour of the month.

I sincerely hope I (and most of the rest of us here) will still be around in 20 years' time, so I don't see folk music dying that quickly. Maybe 50 years would be nearer the mark... :-)

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 03:39 AM

Curiously, newspapers like the Grauniad seem to have decided to use "folk" as a label for a type of commercial recorded music - stuff a bit like James Blount - tending as far as Seth Lakeman in one direction and as far as girls singing their diaries in the other - and allegedly it is fashionable again.

Are we about to have a revival?

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 02:41 AM

Perhaps when David Cameron gets in, we could get him to privatise it and sell shares in it. that should finish the bugger off.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Gurney
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 01:57 AM

The traditional stuff is recorded, so it doesn't matter if it carries on or not, but probably there will be a leavening of erudite ones who will keep it fresh.

There will be people who like the ambience of people like themselves who like similar music, and who like to showcase their own songs. Maybe they will do it in 'Folk Clubs.'

The Auckland Folk Festival was last weekend, and there were more teenagers than I've seen there ever before, in more than 30 years. Perhaps you adults should emigrate to here, to smooth out the generation gap.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Schantieman
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 06:53 PM

Wow. What a long post. Sorry to go on like that.

S

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Schantieman
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 06:53 PM

Bubblyrat: In a few years - maybe ten or even twenty - those kids will grow up a bit and realise that it's actually fun to play with newe people and even listen to them. They don't now, quite possibly because they think that they're better than everyone else. They might or might not actually be better (I suspect not, because however technically good they may be they can't possibly have enough experience yet) but even the best benefit from and enjoy playing together. They will realise that, possibly not consciously, sooner or later.

If our club is anything to go by, it'll be flourishing in 20 years. Three years ago we had to move from our home of 38 years. A few weeks ago we had to move again. Each time we have moved we have increased the size of the audience; new performers keep coming out of the woodwork and performers often say how much they enjoy and look forward to singing here.

BUT (and if I was tecccie enough I'd've made it a big but) most of these performers are in their forties and fifties and the audience is as well - if not older. I am often one of the youngest in the room, at 49.   So we have GOT to encourage the youngsters to come in.

How, of course, is the problem.   I see them at festivals: all ages from babes in arms (who don't have much choice) to teens, twenties and thirties, who do.   It's this lot we have to get in. They obviously go somewhere to sing, play and dance when they're not at festivals.   Lots of trendy (THAT dates me) young performers too, most of whose names I'm somewhat ashamed to say I don't know, but Kate Rusby and Eliza Carthy spring to mind.


We gotta get em in!

Steve

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: rodentred
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 05:45 PM

The music will carry on. Whether it is in the same form or not we can't tell but for certain there are many young people who are enthusiastic about the music. There will always be a demand from people who want to have a good old sing and the folk tunes are eminently singable.

Some of the old crusties who insist they know how folk should be sung will be gone but perhaps thats not a bad thing. What did Matt Armour write - this day is their day, this way is their way or something like that.

Even so I bet someone in 20 years will be asking will folk music survive?

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 05:12 PM

I give the UK folk club scene ten more years at the most!

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: bubblyrat
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 05:02 PM

Dear Guest Dave, you miss the point !! I HAVE seen the students from Newcastle University. I used to live in Bournemouth & knew Julian Batten quite well,for example. And I am VERY impressed with their knowledge, musicianship , and enthusiasm !! However,it doesn"t alter the fact that by making folk-music an academic subject,leading to degree status,we run the risk of making it an elitist art-form,rather than something that is for everyone !! On the occasion to which I referred,in the "Anchor" at Sidmouth,I was in the company of my friend,the late Jon Hayward.This fine musician & songwriter,whose own daughter is a very talented musician, was absolutely HORRIFIED at the arrogance and general attitude of the young musicians involved----in fact ,we both almost apologised for daring to be musicians ourselves !! In fact,it is possible that this particular young group WEREN"T degree students,but what IS certain is that they had recently won some sort of BBC Award, a fact their parents kept pointing out INCESSANTLY !! Well,mum & dad might have been impressed,but WE were not !!

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Gizmo
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 04:31 PM

In 20 years time I will be 47, therefore a ripe age for a folkie, if you measure it up with the people around here. ; )

My children both love hearing me sing folk songs, and my daughter is convinced that she can't sleep without hearing one of the BBC folk music playback thingies on the computer. (Computer sits outside her room). The program which sends her off quickest is usually Mike Harding - need I say more :0

My son loves folk songs too, and is starting to join in with the choruses of songs I sing. He also wants to become a Morris dancer.

I therefore conclude that folk songs will be around for many years to come,(YIPEE) and any one DARE disagree - I'll sit on them and sing. - Well, they do say that it ain't over 'till the fat lady sings.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 04:30 PM

Glad that our 13 year old Guest reported in. The Folk Center in Mountain View, Arkansas does a lot of workshops and some contests.   At one time all participants were senior citizens.   That is no longer true.   Some senior citizens started bringing grandchildren and other young folk started to show up.   We do not get as many of the younger generation at concerts but the seniors have the time and the means. We also have a lot more younger folk on stage and jamming on the court square. I'm expecting folk music to be very much alive in 20 years.   That is music that has been passed on for generations finding another generation.   Of course the singer songwriter, "I sing my own songs" type will be with us too. The songs of today's singer songwriter, "I sing my own songs" will not be with us. Unless they spend some time with good lasting music and absorb it into their souls.   An aside, but on the subject in a way, James Keelaghan, in my opinion one of the best of today's singer songwriters recently did a CD of traditional music, and a fine CD it was. But I suspect that Keelaghan had a solid foundation upon which his writing is built.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Alec
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 04:19 PM

You SHOULD be sorry too,terrier! Some of us are very fond of Daffy.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: terrier
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 04:12 PM

### Folk music. The name makes most young people either cringe or laugh. However, by calling it acoustic music or something similar ........ ###

Well said, young guest. The word 'Folk' when applied to performance of song / poetry / dance etc. ceased to have any true meaning years ago. It has been superceded by terms such as 'World', Ethnic minority', traditional (what's traditional?)etc. etc. 'Folk' is already dead but the art form started by Ug will go on for as long as there are people around to express themselves in music or words.
BTW, I think that James Blunt sounds like the nearest thing to DAFFY DUCK...... ;0) oops, sorry.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 03:36 PM

I, as a young man interested in folk music, believe that folk music will always be alive. But as things are evolving, so are people. Folk music is not cool. It never will be. If you tell people what sort music you are into you will be made fun of. But This can be changed.

Folk music. The name makes most young people either cringe or laugh. However, by calling it acoustic music or something similar you can play folk music and it is cool. People like jack johnson, james blunt (even if he is annoying) etc. are actually playing folk music.

Of course there is a future in folk music. Just not with that name.

Im 13 years old.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: GUEST,Dave (bridge folk Club)
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 02:28 PM

If you saw the talented students on the Folk Degree course up here in the North East of England, then you would not worry. Might be different to what we old folks know but so what? That is evolution

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 12:26 PM

Compare and contrast the contributions from 'Nager', on the 29th Jan, and 'bubblyrat' on the 30th Jan. Seems like inter-generational paranoia is alive and well in the contemporary British folk scene - but does that bode well for the next 20 years?

About 25 years ago I did a floor-spot at a Folk Club in Birmingham. Afterwards the great Charles Parker (of 'Radio Ballads' fame) came up to me and gave me some tips on improving my singing. Now I could have characterised this as 'nosy old git slags me off in Folk Club and I'm never going to one of those again!!'. But I didn't because (i) I had a great respect for Charles, and trusted his judgement, and (ii) I'm not noticeably paranoid (although they are out to get me!). Criticism can often be well mean't and, in my opinion, it's important to be able to distinguish the negative from the positive kind.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Bee
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:51 AM

There's no predicting the future: too many variables. Here in Canada, the drive-drink laws have spelled the demise of many rural taverns, which used to be the starting place for many young bands, whatever music they played. In the cities, that doesn't apply, and the cities continue to grow, meaning more chance for niche filling bars where local music gets played.

However, rural people (at least in the Maritimes) are creating and attending more festivals, where you can camp for several days, drink your beer relatively unhindered, and hear not just stage music, but tons of field pickin', where you find scads of beginning players hanging about the old fellas, listening and learning.

And of course, we have a long tradition of kitchen parties, ceilidhs, firehall dances and Legion events. I heard some of the best bluegrass you can hear, from a local group at a Legion benefit for cadets a month ago.

And here I am, with a ten year old neice who'll soon surpass me musically, but she listens to the songs I sing. Music of the folk will most likely survive, and I doubt it will depend on the existence of folk clubs 'over there' or taverns over here.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: bubblyrat
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:11 AM

I have a nightmare vision of the folk-scene of 20 years hence !! The scenario is this;
       Some friends and I are at a big festival, like Sidmouth,say.
We go into one of the pub sessions ,ie the Bedford or the Anchor, or the Black Horse, carrying our instruments.As we walk in , the venue falls silent. We start to take out our instruments, when a 13 year old folk-violin virtuoso & Professer of Folk-music at Newcastle World Centre of Folk Music Excellence ,says,reedily,"I say !! You there !!You can"t play in here,you know !! You"re obviously over 25,all of you,and anyway,there is no way that you could be as good as us !!If you DO stay,then you must understand that WE cannot possibly play with YOU ---So there ! " Guiltily we slink out,back to the Ham bus-shelter where we belong . Fantasy ?? No,something like this has ALREADY HAPPENED in Sidmouth. It makes me cry !!venue ?? Anchor. year? 2005. young players/ Can"t remember ! We joined in with them,they glared at us . We played something,they stayed silent.Similar thing happened in "Old Tom" in Oxford. Who do these people think they are ?? RIP folk as we knew it !!!

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Gulliver
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 09:47 AM

I agree with Scrump. I looked into a couple of sessions that were part of the Temple Bar Trad Fest at the weekend and the oldest player I saw looked about 25. For once, I felt distinctly old--but I still hope to be around in 20 years time!

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 08:47 AM

Hello Captain Birdseye!

Yup...that's me!

Best wishes,

Pete

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Ceilidhmanmusic
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 07:51 AM

What a morbid lot you are. Of course music will survive, it always has been the expresssion of the masses !! Even if bedroom players are still too shy to venture out, there will always be folks to winkle them out to play & sing for us. Just look at what makes prime time TV, REALITY !!. You can't get more real than performing in front of hostile drinkers and winning them round to sing the finale of "I'm the man the very fat man who waters the workers beer" !!
Keep the tradition going you youngens !

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 07:43 AM

Alive, Jim, but possibly not as we know it.

At least the trad. material which has been preserved will not now be lost.

As for me, I'll be 78.5 years old, so I'm not that confident of still being around.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: treewind
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 07:43 AM

If there are any people left in 20 years time, there will be folk music.

Anahata

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 06:34 AM

waddon pete, are you peter twitchett,the man that used to run croydon folk club,if you are, hi.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Scrump
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 06:19 AM

While we are alive and still able to visit folk clubs, they will survive.

I'm continually encouraged by new young performers coming into the clubs - I've seen some excellent young musicians (playing 'traditional' instruments like fiddle, bouzouki, flute, etc., as well as guitars) and singers in the clubs and at festivals during the past couple of years, and while they continue to emerge I see no cause for concern about the future.

I wonder if it matters though? If we're gone, why worry? We've done our bit to keep the songs alive, and if the next generation but one decides to bin the baton instead of running with it, it's their decision and not for us to say it's right or wrong.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 05:27 AM

For some folk clubs I have been to, the beer can only get better.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 05:19 AM

There should be a lot more songs in 20 years.

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 05:04 AM

True Jim Lad,

But to quote Leon Rosselson, "The Coca Cola always tastes the same!"

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: folk music 20 yrs from now dead or alive
From: Jim Lad
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 04:53 AM

Clubs come and go. Hats off to the organizers for all they do. Folk will live on regardles. The beer won't be the same though.