Pear Tree Inn Southampton

Subject: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:14 PM

Anyone remember the Folk Club in the Pear Tree in the sixties. I remember seeing McColl and Seeger, Maddy Prior and Tim Hart and many others

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:47 PM

Are you sure it wez 'The Pear Tree'?

Aah remember gannin' to a folk club at 'The Bay Tree' in town in the mid sixties

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:59 PM

Certainly the Bay Tree (opposite the So'ton Tech. College and serving Gales beers) was the venue for The Focsle Folk Music Club run by John Edgar Mann and John Paddy Brown in the early 1970's. I was a resident at that time with Dave Williams, Steve & Cheryl Jordan, Geoff Jerram. A wonderful club with great guests every week.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:48 PM

Yes - it was the Bay Tree. Saw Shirley Collins there. The pub survived until quite recently but was pretty derelict last time I called in to the University (yes, it's now a university, not a tech. college any more)

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: ossonflags
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 07:40 AM

Yeh I remember that one,saw Alex Campbell there i think about 1969/70 ish.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: ossonflags
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 07:41 AM

Was there a folk club out at Shirley about the same time?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:43 AM

I remember an earlier club, the Balladeer, which was somewhere near the University (the older unversity). Saw Hedy West, and the McPeakes there.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 09:05 AM

There was a club at what I call Shirley Pond,(At junction of Terborba? Way, Redbridge Hill, etc) on the corner opposite the Old Hatched House pub as you go up the hill to Shirley High Street- but I can't remember what either the club or pub was called, and I only seem to remember going there once. It was no way near as good as the Focsle.
Their only real rivals at the time were The Cutty Wren at Hythe and then way down to Bournemouth for the traditional based Wessex on Fridays or The Free Express on Sundays.
There was also the club at Christchurch run by Alan White (What was that pub called?)were I used to sing as I was on of the original Twynham Morris that was centred there. The courtyard and club room (with its pole in the middle) was a venue during The Christchurch Folk Festival. for years.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 10:06 AM

Growler once told me he saw the Chapmen there supporting someone else, and they were very (he said) impressive.


Anyone else remember them? If so, tell me what they were like, and I'll tell you why I want to know!

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 10:37 AM

The Balladeer was in the Bassett Hotel - just remembered. The Wessex was our club, originally the Bournemouth and Poole Folk Song Club and started in 1964 by the Biddles (me, Liz Heaslip and Don Morgan)and Robin Whittlestone.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 01:51 PM

Sorry, it was the 'Bay Tree', the club running in Shirley, at that time, called itself 'The Anvil Folk Club

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:30 PM

Blacksmiths Arms in Shirley every Monday,had the Funario Folk Club hosted usually by the "Funario Folk Three" memory says it comprised Brian (Crabbe) Neville-Lee, Robin Parker and another. Other notables included John Murfitt & Pat McMillan, John Heslop etc. And of course "Ian T. Weekes, Folk Singer"the man who introduced me to Folk music ("what music?" "Folk music!" was the conversation as I recall.
Ah yes the Cutty Wren Hythe! How long have we got I feel a page coming on...Actually started by Dave Brittain ( where is he now?) in The Drummond in Hythe village.It moved to the Hythe Hotel in Frost Lane. It was about here I got involved and sufffice to say I learned the ropes of organising by helping Rod Ferguson sail the good old Cutty. Later on after a few changes and a move to still the best facilities of any folk club, ever in the history of time, Ron Kelly joined the team. Residents at the time included Rick Keeling, Anne and Steve Mitchel Bill and SYlia Rogers, Mo Thomas and of course thye irrepresible Rog Carmen.
That's enough for now, I've come all over uneccesary.

Andy
These notes came straight off the top of my head so there will be gaps and ommissions galore.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:33 PM

Ooh Ooh Ooh , forgot to say that the Funario changed to the Anvil after a short intermission.
The Fo'cs'l'e, they had all three apostrophes in those days, was there before all and is still going strong now.
A.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 06:28 PM

Aah wez resident MC at 'The Fo'c's'le for a fdw years (followin g the admirable Brian Hooper: Terry Gregory (RIP) was the organiser and we met at 'The Joiners' in St Mary's.

It was a student pub and also attracted a few 'low-lifes' who made a lot of racket in the main bar.

It was eventually taken over by an asshole pub manager who moved us out at an hour's notice stating that the 'folk crowd were intimidating his regulars'!!!

We moved about a bit and the club is now run by the lovely Jane and equally lovely Trevor (SCoFF Webmeister) and is a lovely and welcoming club

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 06:43 PM

Hythe? I made my solo debut there, c1965, but it was at the 'Black Seagull.' Was this the name of the pub or the club?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 07:02 PM

When I started going to the Cutty Wren in Hythe in the very early 1970's it was in Frost Lane at the ??? Hotel - Andy Jackson will remember, as he was there at the same time as me. The hotel is now called The Fountain Court, but damned if I can remember the old name. Maybe I should go hunt out the LP the residents made (Called Frost Lane), but don't really know where it is!

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:00 PM

Hi Tim,

The Hotel was called the Hythe Hotel in the early days, I remember we had to roll back the massive carpet every club night and roll it back again at the end of the evening.
But the name Don Stewart comes to me as the manager as does Stewart Lodge Hotel., and then Westcliffe Hall Hotel. I still think they were all the same building.
I the latter years of the club, before it's move to Totton, we had all the downstairs rooms for the sole use of the club. Our own entry door round the back, a seperate Bar, Tune up/Geen room, toilets of course, and even a small kitchen. The club room was L shaped but big enough to squeeze over 200 on many occasions.
Guest Terry: The Black Seagull rimngs bells although it was before my time.
Careful chaps....this is the kind of thread that blows away a lot of cobwebs and starts books being written.
I saw a copy of Frost Lane sell on Ebay for over £70 a few months ago.

(We still have the master tapes.)

Andy

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:02 PM

Anyway, back to the Bay Tree. Does anyone else remember the wall at the top of the stairs. Absolutely covered in autographs by many, many jazz music greats and not a few from Folk. It was painted over by the new, caring, Landlord and I presume long since destroyed.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:39 PM

Blacksmith's Arms, Shirley, on Mondays, Fo'c'sle on Wednesdays and Balladeer on Fridays, both at the Bassett Hotel.
Drummond Arms, Hythe, for the Cuty Wren, then there was another club in East Steet and the University Folk Club at the University, Sundays.
Also there was the Waterfront at Woolston, which mover following the pub having caught fire.
And does anyone remember the Wishing Well coffee bar, firs in St. Mary Street then later in Onslow Road? Run by a Nick Somebody-or-other and open late until very early (or late) in the morning. Excellent coffee, folk music on the stereo unless we were all singing, and a lot of lovely customers, many of whom named above.
BTW, Brian Hooper taught me French at Taunton's School!

Colyn.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 05:21 AM

We are gradually adding so much interesting info here, although some contradictory that I think the time has come for a new thread something like."Old Southampton Area Folk Clubs. Or even early SCOFF clubs, because most of us travelled the clubs contained in the Bournemouth - Salisbury - Portsmouth Triange.. I we get the right title it could be a very interesting thread. I don't know if Joe and/or his clones combine threads from here to kick start the new thread but it could be good.

Andy

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 05:39 AM

Andy - yes we all went to clubs other than our own, although the geography varies. Those of us who were Bournemouth based seldom went further east than Southampton, but were regular visitors to Dorchester, Yeovil and even Exeter. Bournemouth (i.e. the Wessex) was, I think, the only club that belonged to both SCOFF and the South West's version. Meetings of the latter were held at Halsway (under the auspices of Bill Rutter) and rtegular attenders were the Journeymen from exeter, the Songwainers from Cheltenham, Ted Poole from Swindon, the Yetties from Yeovil (club) and the Biddles from Bournemouth.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 06:07 AM

OOPS! it's getting bigger all the time. How about Southern Folk Clubs UK. for a thread ? I just have the feeling that this thread has the wrong pub name and we fell upon it by idle curiosity based on Southampton.

Andy

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 06:38 AM

Who was the resident at the Bay Tree, a big bloke, who regularly sang the best rendition of 'Shoals of Herring' I have ever heard

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: ossonflags
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 06:54 AM

I remember him!!! he was a big fat youth and he had a lovely trained tenor voice.never heard him sing out other than "Shoals of Herring" though

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 11:31 AM

Hmm, no-one remembers "The Chapmen"?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 03:16 PM

I do remember the name, but can't for the life of me, recall seeing them. ( It was 40 years ago, afterall )

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 07:20 AM

Sorry to hi-jack this thread, but I have a question that some of you might be able to answer.

Can anyone remember a folk club in Swaythling, nr Southampton, in the late 1960s? I used to play there as a regular for a while (in 1968-9), but for the life of me I can't remember the name of the pub or much else, come to that. It was one of a group of 4 folk clubs I used to play at - I think they were all organised by the same guy, whose name I also forget. The other 3 clubs were in Basingstoke, Fleet and Hook (not that it helps).

Can anyone remember any of these clubs? The B'stoke one is the one I remember best, because I lived near there at the time. It was in the Hop Leaf Hotel (more like a pub really) in the (old) town centre, before they built that modern shopping mall.

As for the other 3, I can't remember any details such as the pub names. Any help / memories would be welcome.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 08:51 AM

Well, Simon, that's not what you told me before: but you had had additional fluids to refresh the brain cells.

Ah well, c'est la vie (ou peut etre la mort).

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,John Paddy Browne
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:50 AM

Been watching this correspondence with interest and amusement from my hermitage in deepest Hampshire. Someone mentioned the idea of writing a sort of history of the Southampton/Hampshire/southern Counties folk club scene -not a new idea but one that would at least record the presence of a marvellous collection of visitors to these clubs: MacColl and Seeger, Bill Clifton, Rory and Alex McEwen, The Ian Campbell Folk Group, Bob Davenport, The McPeake Family, Cyril Tawney, Roy Bailey, Sydney Carter, Steve Benbow, Louis Killen, Shirley Collins, Isla Cemeron, The Yetties - oh, dozens more - and that's only The Fo'c'sle.
And then there are the many dozens of talented "residents" who were the backbone of the local club scene.
The club had its genesis at the old Balladeer Club at the Bassett Hotel when John Edgar Mann and I formed The Fo'c's'le (yes, three apostrophes)which opened its doors at a packed Bay Tree, New Road, Southampton on Friday 10 May 1963. The local police and Fire authorities all enjoyed their official visits so much that they turned a blind eye to the over-crowding and the possibility of the room collapsing into the public bar below. MacColl, in his autobiography, recalls the place being so packed that there wasn't enough oxygen for him to light a match.
But enough of this. A lot of those names are no longer with us. Is there sufficient interest among today's less populous folk club fraternity to warrant a book of stories, anecdotes, and photographs (and God knows, there are plenty) to warrant a good little local book? I'd buy one.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:29 AM

I asked this before, in another thread about the Southampton area, but does anyone remember a club in Swaythling, near there? I played there several times as a 'resident' although I lived near Basingstoke then, and used to get the train down. I can't remember the name of the club, what pub it was in, or anything else much! Pretty sure John Isherwood played there though.

C'mon, somebody must remember it?! Or did I dream it all?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,JPB
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 04:19 PM

The Crescendo (!) was held at the Hampton Park Hotel, Swaythling. It was running in 1965, but I don't know for how long beforehand or afterwards.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 04:23 PM

I know Miskin Man has the old Cuttty Wren model in my old lounge.


Scooby

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Crabbe
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 04:33 PM

Just for the sake of completeness and harking back to the Anvil, Blacksmith's Arms, Shirley (previously the Fennario, at a pub in East Street the name of which escapes me). The three people notionally running the club were me (now happily settled in Worcester), Robin Parker (now happily settled in Norfolk) and Jon Heslop (now happily settled in Cornwall) - I say notionally, because where would we have been without my wife Nicky who sold more raffle tickets than you could shake a stick at in those days? Come to think of it she still does.
Jon, Robin and I performed as "Omen" and then later when Jon dropped out, Robin and I became "Volume II". Jon still writes and sings and so do I, not sure about Robin.
I love John Paddy's idea about a history of Southampton folk clubs and would be plleased to contribute to same if anyone wants to pick up the baton.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 04:59 PM

I seem to remember being at tha Blacksmiths Arms, when Tim Hart and Maddie Prior, where recording 'The Horn of The Hunt' for a radio show, and a lady, obviously the aforesaid Nicky, trying to sell rafle tickets, without her voice sounding on tape.
Having deserted Hampshire for Kent in 1972, I would love to see John Paddy's idea, come to fruition

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 05:38 PM

Hi John-Paddy and Crabbe. Yes, Yes, lets get a book of the early Southampton folk scene onto the starting blocks. With mudcat etc we have a wonderful gathering device we could have only dreamed of all those years ago.
I have been brushing the dust off a whole batch of 1/4 tapes from that era, try these names for size.
Dave Brittain, Roger Carmen, Ron Vardey, Mo Thomas. Mo is still around I know but never when I make one of my visits down south. Paul Mc Neil and Linda Peters, Tim and Maddy, the list goes on.
I even have a recording of the night the Anvil reopened!! Exiles etc. JEM of course has memories and tales enough to fill the second volume after JPB.
Great to hear from you both,

Andy

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 05:40 PM

If it was to be about Hampshire clubs, then don't forget Bournemouth. We were a Hampshire club until 1974 when we suddenly found ourselves in Dorset. Probably for the better, though. It's a superior county.....says he, who was (and is)from the Poole side of the border.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 07:41 PM

Helen Woodall

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 05:47 AM

Helen Woodall - still around, part of the Old Pull and Push band. In the 'olden days' she was part of a duo with Richard Thrift called......Richard and Helen.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 06:52 AM

Another bit of reminiscence of artists on the Hants folk scene in the late 1960s, that I hope someone will be able to help with:

There was a duo, two guys, who used to play bluegrass-type music. One was tall and thin, with curly black hair and a beard, and played 5-string banjo; and the other was shorter and more stocky, with red hair and beard. The shorter guy used to sing with a pretty good tenor voice, IIRC.

I also saw the tall guy appear as a solo act on his own, but I can't remember seeing the other guy on his own. I don't know whether they split up as a duo at that time, or what.

I saw them several times in the clubs I used to frequent (mentioned elsewhere), around 1968-9.

Does this description ring any bells? Can anyone name these guys, or remember anything else about them?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:01 AM

Helen Woodall was my singing partner too for a number of years until I moved to Oxfordshire in 1972.
We were also, with are spouses, founding members of Twynham Morris of Christchurch, along with Alan White, who used to run the Folk Club in the same very small space we practiced.
I can't remember the name of the pub - can anyone help me - and what ever happened to Alan? I heard he was helping at one time to run the campsite at Sidmouth and that he may? be now involved with the Wareham singing sessions?
I haven't seen him for well over 30 years!

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:07 AM

Alan's still around, still living in the same house in Parkstone/Newtown. I've seen him a few times recently although I think the last was at Ringwood in January 2006 when Martin Carthy was the guest. I may also have seen him at Sidmouth in August but I'm not certain - met a lot of people there that I know/used to know.

Tim - do you remember John Edmonds and Jimmy Melville? They were Christchurch based.

Scrump - the tall, thin banjo playing one sounds like Richard Thrift.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:13 AM

Regarding Banjo playing, etc. two-some - Do you mean The Dixie Ramblers? or at least some of them (there were 3 of them whose names I can't remember)?
Or are you thinking of Murfitt & McMillan who used to play at The Focsle?

Terry - I don't remember either Jihn Edmonds or Jimmy Melville - what did they play?

Best - Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:28 AM

Tim - John Edmonds (Dorset accent) had a good voice and a liking for Irish material. Brilliant harmony singer - his harmonies were almost new melodies. Jimmy Melville was Scots and his preference was towards Country music. They were a good duo, though.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Broadside Man
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 08:05 AM

I am happy to report that Alan White is a live and well and indeed running the campsite, again, and a lot more at Sidmouth.

Alan also took on the Wareham Wail after Wareham Folk Harvest finished in the early nineties. The Wail first took place at Stoborough school before moving to a site just outside Wareham at Worget. The wail under Alan has now moved to Verwood.

Terry, I last saw John Edmonds a few years ago. We both worked for BT at the time and John had formed a little band that played regularly at the Catherine Wheel just outside Christchurch. John was kind enough to come over to East stoke for a fund raising event i was running for Greenpeace.

Geoff Payne

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 08:21 AM

Hi Geoff - just to let you know John has moved to France! I suggested to him that he and I do a spot together at one of the Breton festivals.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 08:29 AM

Regarding Banjo playing, etc. two-some - Do you mean The Dixie Ramblers? or at least some of them (there were 3 of them whose names I can't remember)?
Or are you thinking of Murfitt & McMillan who used to play at The Focsle?

Unfortunately, the names you give don't ring any bells. Some of them may be correct, it's just that I can't remember at all what they were called, although I saw them several times and played on the same 'bill' as them on many occasions. I never went to the Foc'sle. The clubs I played at were in Basingstoke (at the Hop Leaf Hotel), Swaythling, Hook and Fleet (i.e mainly in N Hants, except the Swaythling one). As I said in another post, I think those 4 clubs were all run by the same guy, whose name I also can't remember - all I remember about him was that he wasn't a performer himself, and used to wear dark glasses all the time (even indoors in a dingy folk club). Either he thought it was cool, or he had an eye problem!

If anyone can remember this guy, or anything else, I'd be grateful.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: bubblyrat
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 09:27 AM

I played with Helen & The Old Pull & Push in Studland a few years back--It was a dance for a youth-group called " Crusaders ", they were unbelievably energetic, & wanted to dance all night !! We collapsed around midnight, and the youngsters all dashed down to the beach for a swim ! The folk-club that I played in ,in Christchurch, up until 2 years ago, was in the "Barn Bar " in the courtyard of the "George " on the roundabout, up near the Priory. Once a year, there would be a big "session" in the courtyard, a remnant of the defunct "Christchurch Folk Festival " --A shadow of its former self !!
Part of the "Barn Bar" has now been turned into a rather cissy gift shop, although at the time that I left, they were still having bands playing there on friday nights---Murphy"s Lore , Mary Jane, Lady Winwoods Maggot et al, but the actual "sessions " are now held in "The Ship ", opposite the Regent Centre. Ask Mudcatter "Lilly",-- she knows more about Christchurch than anyone else alive today !! (That is a compliment, by the way !! )

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 09:55 AM

Yes - The George, we used to have the folk club and our morris practices there in the "Barn" - even with a pole in the middle of the floor.
Helen Woodall and I were filmed by the BBC at the 1971 or 72 Christchurch Folk Fest in the courtyard you mention, and a friend gave me a copy of the film on DVD last year. It is great to look around the audience and see who you remember.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 10:18 AM

Bah! I went to the trouble of finding this thread and reviving it, to ask about these two guys I remember, and it's been hijacked by these queries about other artists! Still that's Mudcat for you! Maybe I'll try again in a few days... :-)

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:02 PM

I think this thread started as a question about a folk club in Southampton - only later was it highjacked as an identification question - which some have tried to answer!

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:49 PM

Just to throw a few more names from the time into the pot...
Paul Hawkins - Steve Nunn, brother of Gary. Colin Grant-Adams, Dave Ingledew, Sibby.
Not wishng too blatant a plug, have a look at Forest Tracks
Andy
I think the Foc's'l'e LP "Residents Night Out" is also available as a cd now.
Incidentally I've contacted Cecil SHarpe House to see if the Christchurch Festival film is available to hire or even purchase.
Andy

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 01:12 PM

Tim: Alan White hasn't changed a bit! He ran the Sidmouth campsite for years, now runs the very succesful Wareham Wail and is a moving force in the revamped Sidmouth Festival. Like I say, he's not changed a bit, the same twinkle in his eye even.

Andy

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 04:21 PM

Scrump
I think the tall guy was Paul Brier, I went to school with him, but havn't had contact with him since the late sixties. I remember him going into Chappel music shop and asked to try out a banjo. He ended up blocking the street and was warned by the local plod that he was causing an obstruction

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 05:15 PM

Paul Hawkins is still around but doesn't 'club' any mair

Steve Nunn now lives in Cornwall in his wee recording studio

Gary Nunn still does kid's entertainment at festivals etc

And Dave Ingledew is still a leading light in The Bursledon Village Band - One of the most consistent and wunnerful bands aroond.

Not heard of Sibby for a great many years.

Nice story for anyone who knaahs Sooty Broughton - Lynch-pin of the Railway Folk Club for 300 years - At Brian Ingham's funeral Sue Apicella's hubby saw Sooty and said, "By Heck, George Wilson's let himself go, hasn't he?"

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,John Paddy Browne
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 03:54 PM

To answer Scrump's query of 14 March, it was indeed The Dixie Ramblers: Dave Betteridge (banjo) and Derek Glasspool (guitar). They occasionally used a bass-player (acoustic) whose name escapes me.
The Dixies appeared on the very first Forest Tracks album, FIRST TRACKS, and this is now available again on CD, with original cover and sleeve-notes, from Forest Tracks. Also on this album: Helen Woodall, Dave Williams, Ted Duckett and Harmonious Blacksmith.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 09:03 AM

Ah! Dave Betteridge - I'm pretty sure that was him, because as I said, I did see him doing solo gigs, as well as appear with the duo, so his name would have been announced. So it must have been the Dixie Ramblers. I wasn't sure before, but I'm pretty sure you're right. Does anyone know what happened to them?

Thanks to all who have provided info, and apologies for hijacking the thread Tim!

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Dave Ingledew
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 01:33 PM

Hi All,

Sibby is still alive and well, after retiring from the folk scene for about 15 years he came to The Bursledon Village Band's 20th birhday bash and decided to start calling again. He calls with us fairly regularly, travelling from darkest Essex where he now resides to sunny Hampshire.

He's still a star !! I can remember so many evenings when he's had us in stitches by a simple comment he's made to one of the dancers.

BTW it The BVB's 30th this May, we're having a dance and workshops at Hamble Memorial Hall. Check out www.bursledonvillageband.co.uk if you're interested.

We'll always be grateful to the F'o'c's'l'e' for providing the oportunity to get the band started in November 1996.

Cheers to you all.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,long suffering fiddle player/wife
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 02:17 PM

He means 1976!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Peter Green
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 10:31 AM

Ah yes I remember it well. I cut my folk teeth with all those familiar names until I fled to the Isles of Scilly in '66
Returned in early 70s to Cutty Wren and some MCing with Alan (?) Rutter. Also there was Roger Bucknel who went on to make some exceedingly good guitars.
What no mention of Guta Purcha (spelling) or Vic, Vince & John
(Vince makes a fair guitar also)
Could reminisce for hours from here in Poole

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 10:59 AM

Spelt Gutta Percha, I think, Peter. I can still remember some of his song, The Great Skiffle Disaster, sung to the tune of the Gresford Disaster. I think the first verse went:

You've heard of the skiffle disaster
Took place at a local hotel
A hundred and one skifflers turned up
Was there an audiunce? was there Hell...

also

A hundred washboard players
Had brought their washboards along
With their thimbles in place and a smile on their face
They rendered that old worried song....

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Peter Green
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 11:20 AM

My Favourite Gutta Percha song was 'Dancing to the Eve of Destruction' about Pan's People dancing to the 60s hit 'Eve of Destruction' by Barry McGuire. I think it was irony at its best.

The Foc's'l'e spent a few months in an upstairs room used by the Order of Buffalos Its now the West key car park. Anyone remeber the pubs name?

Incidentally Ted Duckett, of spoons fame, worked for my dad!

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 01:34 PM

The Fo'c's'le is on the move again

Havin' been at the 'Wellington' for ten years they are now moving to The Richmond Inn' in Portswood, Southampton from 23rd March.

Since aah took ower MC from Brian Hopper aall those years ago it's moved aboot eight times in aall

Good on Jane & Trevor et al for keepin' it gannin'

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: inertmale
Date: 10 May 07 - 11:40 AM

Just a note to say that I remember the Bay Tree Inn at the junction of East Park Terrace and the road to Bitterne. It had completely black decor in my day and the beer was "Gales" and always had a slight metallic tinge to my palate.
I also remember the "Hay Wain" at Cadnam and the rural Games held there. Anyone else remember?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 10 May 07 - 05:28 PM

The old club room at the back of The Haywain was very important to me when I started being involved in folk song and dance. The Bi-weekly dances were where I started singing with Helen Woodall (in the interval) and I met Alfie Woodall and Derek Binstead and we were all founding members of Tyneham Morris (of Christchurch) and with our female partners, we were all members of The Haywainers dance group led by Paddy Searle.
I also remember, but didn't go that often, the Friday night sessions with Sarah & The Sinnermen? Is that right? Helen Woodall and her then singer partner - Richard? used to sing during the break, as did sometimes my old friend and main influence- Dave Williams. Great times and many memories.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 10 May 07 - 07:36 PM

Richard Thrift, Tim.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 07 - 05:19 AM

Mention of Paul Brier above - if it's the same guy, I played in a jug band with him (mostly at the Anvil, 1970), he played a banjolin and/or harmonica; later on morphed into a fine electric blues guitarist (worked with Bob Pearce, who back in '70 played washboard at the Anvil) - jeez, that's a long time ago...

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: scouse
Date: 11 May 07 - 07:04 AM

Was it Gutta Percha who use to sing......

Oh, flamin',flamin,June, you've spoke half an hour to soon,
Your a better man than I am Gunga Din,
When the Sun shines bright on Totten,
The stench is somethin' rotten,
But it's better when the Tide is comin' in..
Chorus... As I seem to remember...
Oh,Jane,Oh, Jane, may I never smell your sweaty feet again,
In the Factory were she works makin' glass eyes for the Turks,
She my ////////////////////// Scarlet fevered Jane.

Brian (Crabbe) Neville-Lee. john Paddy Brown,Jeff I remember well also Geoff Jerram. RTim I must have known you as well.. I lived down with John Murphitt for quite a while.. and went to all the clubs including one near or in Chandlers Ford if memory serves correct.. We used to sit on bales of hay an drink Cider and the Farmer used to put his sick cows behind the stage area..told me the music seemed to buck them up no end.
As Aye,
Phil Jackson.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 11 May 07 - 07:11 AM

Yes, that was one of his - I'd forgotten it. The 'flamin' June bit was the chorus, though. The tune was a variant of 'She'll be coming round the mountain', and there was a verse about when being asked for a light, being told to 'climb up and get it off the bloody flame', meaning the flame at the Fawley oil refinery. Gutta was Mike Sadlier and his sister was married to Dave Williams. I think.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 11 May 07 - 08:04 AM

Yes - David Williams was married to Christine Sadler and still lives locally.
Flaming June is still sung by Geoff Jerram - and it is about TOTTON - the place of my berth!
Sorry Phil, but your name does not ring bells with me, but it was all a very long time ago now. I have not lived in Hampshire since 1973, although I am often back there to visit my mother & sister who live in Marchwood & Hythe.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 11 May 07 - 08:07 AM

Just remembered - the melody to Flamin' June was Maggie May, not She'll be Coming Round the Mountains!

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 11 May 07 - 09:39 AM

Flaming June - words Mike Sadler, tune - Maggie May.
Chorus:
Oh, FlaminÕ FlaminÕ June you spoke half an hour to soon
YouÕre a better man than I am Gunga Din
When the sun shines bright on Totton
The stench is something rotten,
But itÕs better when the tide is coming in.

I knew a man Silvester comes from somewhere near Winchester
Had a row of 40 medals on his chest
He came all the way from Tokyo and with a ////// Banjo
And with //////// these skiffle types /////////

I was on my way to Fawley feeling somewhat poorly
Cadged a fag off someone who I dare not name
When I asked him for a light he sure gave me a fright
He said climb up and get one off the Fawley Flame.

Now I went to a party both Bohemian and arty
All the local bums and parasites were there
When some they had a nogginÕ
The rest were merely snogginÕ
TheyÕll be tipsy when they all come up for air.

The morals of this nation give us cause for consternation
//////////////// every day
They say keep the party clean, so donÕt go where sheÕs been
//////////////// next day.

With all this radiation there is bound to be mutation
And the sexual roles will have to be revised
And if a woman lingers with a beast with 15 fingers
She wonÕt be ///////////////
SheÕll just be televised.

*************************

Taken down - as well as possible! From a recording made by Ron Coe at Chichester College, Sussex in 1966.
Performed by Dave Williams, Vic Wilton and Pete Mills.
This track is available on the CD - YouÕre On Nipper: Dave Williams.
This being a compilation of Dave Williams performances made after his death by Forest Tracks Records, of which Dave was a founding member.
See: http://www.forest-tracks.co.uk/


Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 11 May 07 - 09:51 AM

Isn't it 'they say keep the party clean, 'cos you don't know where she's been'?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Peter green
Date: 16 May 07 - 09:52 AM

Still on the subject of Gutta Percha don't forget the song of The Woolston Ferry, now an historical document!
Also RTim mentioned Dave Williams and Vic Wilton who also played with Vince Hockey as Vic, Vince & John. Vince, I understand, now makes fine guitars. He owned the first Martin I ever touched!!!!!!!!!
Brian Hooper was playing there when I was a boy and I'm almost a hundred

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:07 PM

Paul Brier mentioned above, played with the "Phoenix Jug Band". I still have a copy of a fine demo tape I recorded for them. The Band also included Jackie Whitren.
I am gradually unearthing several recordings of the early SOuthampton Folk scene, they may be the basis of a nostalgia CD someday. The nightmare of contacting all concerned is fairly mind boggling but we all love Mudcat don't we.

Andy

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:23 PM

Inertmale
The rural pastimes you referred was ' Nurdling ' I can't remember what the objective was, as it was over 40 years ago, but I remember it involved ' dwile flunking ' and drinking cider. Somebody won and somebody lost, but they were both pissed,so it didn't matter

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 16 May 07 - 05:04 PM

After all this time - I can't remember which is which ie. John Murfitt or Pat McMillian. One of them would often turn up at The Fo'c's'le wearing dark glasses because he was a welder or something? and regularly got "Arc-eye". I thought it strange, because at that time I too was a welder, but seldom suffered that fate.
Now - am I right about that, or is it just time playing tricks with my memories? And which was which? One played Banjo and the other played Guitar.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 16 May 07 - 06:13 PM

ye'll be pleased te knaah that Vince Hockey is alive and well and still mendin' Martin Guitars but aalso building 'Hockey Guitars' and mekkin' a grand job of it.

Brian Hooper is retired from the mundane 9-5 and has just released a solo CD as well as a duo effort (with Jeff Henry - Both late of Cat's Whiskers')) of songs about Soothampton.

Hooper is the consumate 'GENTLEMAN' and many years ago writ a book caaled "So You Want To Be A Folk Club MC?"

He giv uz a copy (and signed it) when aah took ower from him as MC at The Fo'c'sle MANY years ago.

I eventually passed it on te someone who was takin' ower as MC at Chichester - and aah signed it.

The last aah heard it had been passed on with SEVENTEEN signatures in it!

Not bad for a freebie eh?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 16 May 07 - 06:47 PM

Weren't 'Nurdling' and 'Dwile Flonking' invented by Michael Bentine? I saw his stage show at the Bournemouth Pavilion in the very early 60s (late 50s?) and one of the sketches featured those 'rural pastimes.'

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Growler
Date: 17 May 07 - 10:22 AM

If Ibremember rightly The Haywain used to hold Nurdling championships

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 17 May 07 - 05:05 PM

"Drat me! - He's Nurdled!!"

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 17 May 07 - 05:11 PM

Bugger me, so is I

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: dj bass
Date: 18 May 07 - 07:21 AM

Miskin Man mentioned Jaki Whitren. I had a fabulous album by JW released in the early 70s. Somewhere at home I think I still have a couple of tracks on casette. I used to sing one of her songs - A Little Bit Extra Please...

So I just bought that album again after all these years on Amazon. Thanks MM for the reminder.

Any idea what Jaki is doing now? Her myspace doesn't seemto show any gigs, although she does seem to be doing something.

dj

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 07 - 05:46 AM

Miskin Man, I didn't know that Jackie Whitren sang with a jug band - more info please?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 21 May 07 - 10:53 AM

The best band in those days of yore was THE STINKIN' PRONG FULL.
Remember them?
might have something to do with Dave Williams & Geoff Gerram

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 07:25 PM

Hi All, I just wanted to revive this thread - so many memories, so many great people....

I will be in England next week - not much time to do folk things, but it would be great to see ALL my old friends again - after so many years, maybe another time - Yes, wouldn't be great to get together again?

Best to all - Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 08:56 AM

Well done Tim. What a great thread for us old nostalgics.

Did anyone ever start a book? I know I haven't sorted out all my old tapes yet so I mustn't complain.

Andy

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 09:20 AM

Andy - If you have sorted out your old tapes! - Any sign of the Sounds of the South prog. on Songs collected by George Gardiner for Radio Solent that we did way back in 197??? ?

Tim (I am going to keep on about this!)

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Miskin Man
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 03:27 PM

I know it's on the Isle of Wight!!!! In a big store in Ventnor. The day is getting closer, honest.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 04:18 PM

It's great to have this thread back, this club inspired me when I was in my teens. I now have run my own folk clubs, for the last ten years. had it not been for 'The Fo'c's'le in the sixties, many people would have been spared my voice, over the last40 years.
Paul Briar, if your out there, please PM me

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 11:01 PM

Tim Radford.............
If you are going to visit your family in the Totton/Marchwood areas please throw a stone into the water at Eling Quay for me!
Also born/brung up in Totton.
Colyn Blundell.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:14 PM

I've just discovered this thread - wow does it bring back memories of Southampton area folk in the mid to late 60s.
Must have been to the Pear Tree, but don't remmber it at all, although all the other clubs mentioned are so familiar.

Miskin Man wrote -
"Blacksmiths Arms in Shirley every Monday,had the Funario Folk Club hosted usually by the "Funario Folk Three" memory says it comprised Brian (Crabbe) Neville-Lee, Robin Parker and another. Other notables included John Murfitt & Pat McMillan, John Heslop etc."

I was in a "Funario Folk Three", together with John Murfitt, and originally Colm McLaverty, later Brian Jones.

Does anyone know where John is now?

Regards,
Hamish West