Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?

Subject: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 12:17 AM

Okay, I've had several messages saying we should do this and giving permission to use certain people's postings. Still need to ehar from Max though. But, just in case:

I had asked if anyone knows how to find grants and how to write a proposal for one. I think there should be interest and monies available for a book about such an incredible cyber-community.

Also, since I've only been on since Jan. I am sure there are many of you who who remember threads I've not even heard of which would deserve to be excerpted.

I am willing to try to pull it together and edit. Catspaw has already been nominated to write an intro. And he and Big Mick have alreayd put in their two cents about being sure to include the Xenophobia and Music Therapy threads, which I agree with. BUT, I would need your help big time!

It will take some time to do, prob. many months, maybe even a year. We may be moving this summer (don't know where or when, depends on what Rog finds in his field; he's leaning heavily towards New Mexico. I'd prefer more rain; we both think a lower altitude would be better for me) and, with the critters and junk that can be a major production which takes a lot of energy.

I would ask everyone to choose 2 or 3 of their very favourite threads and/or several of their absolutely favourite postings by themselves or whomever else they choose. You could either email me the exact thread title and posting name or excerpt them to me. It would save me a lot of time if everyone would cut and paste their favs to me.I wouldn't want this to be something that I arbitrarily put together based on my tastes, at all. This would be for everyone and in a sense by everyone, because we would collaborate on what to include. Of course, there would be no guarantees that favs would make it in, but at the moment, like Tom Petty says, "the future is wide open".

While I think proceeds from sales of the book should go to the 'Cat, I would appreciate it if someone could look into grants etc. Since writing and editing is what I do, I need to try to contribute to the household through my efforts. Of course anyone else who gets really involved in this, through proofreading or whatever should be included in any renumeration. Any ideas? I don't have much experience at finding grants, etc.

Also, would like your thoughts on what directio it shoudl take. Do we want this to be a book mostly for seasoned Mudcatters or do we want to be able to pick it up, show a friend and say listen to this! (That's what I do already!) What kind of editing is done would depend on this.

This whole thing also brings to mind a previous thread about do we want the world in general to know about the Mudcat? What kind of an effect would this have on the Mudcat's future. I know we may not be talking bestseller here (although, ya' never know!), but it is something to consider. Anybody familiar with what happened to the Burning Man Event in Nevada? You know what I mean!

I have the programs and ability to mock this up,in book form, on my computer. Hell, if we want it to be a slim and simple book, paperbound, cheap, down and dirty, I've even got the big stapler to put it together (as I did my bro's), BUT I'd rather NOT be chief cook and bottle washer.

Also need to know if we would want photos?

I'll save some room on here now by shutting up. This has all just been thougths rattlin' round in my lil' head, filling up empty space. Please feel free to add, subtract, suggest, throw me out on my ear, or what have you. This is yours!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: alison
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 12:28 AM

Hi,

thought you might like to see the previous thread on this.. needless to say it went way off topic.......

Mudcat the book

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Night Owl
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 12:35 AM

kat...just posted to the therapy thread but had to read this before I shut down. YES to your question. I am also a proofreader, used to be a news reporter as well and will help in any way I can,..... BUT I do think we should WHOA for a minute until we hear from Max et.al....because he/they is, after all, our "fearless" leader! base? bridge-builder? I've got it! Tribal Counsel! (Whew!) I also feel that grants are doable but strongly feel that proceeds go to Mudcat without question ( How's that for positive thinking?) Looking forward to talking with you later. I'm shutting this computor off now...really. Have a difficult day tomorrow.

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 12:36 AM

Thanks, Alison. That was great! I DID forget to say...if anyone else wants to do this, PLEASE SPEAK UP! I AM NOT MARRIED TO THE IDEA OF BEING EDITOR!

katl

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Night Owl
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 12:48 AM

OK!...so I didn't shut it off, saw alison's post after I posted......so, HAD to click the link! I'm going to bed NOW......with a giggle! Talk with you soon.

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 01:07 AM

Night Owl, thanks for offering your help.

I agree with you,totally, on the proceeds going to the Mudcat. I was just saying that there ought to be grant money to pay for putting the book together. It would take a lot of time, even with several of us working on it. I know we all already spend a lot of time on here and it would be a labour of love and caring, but it would also be, as labour often is, hard work!

I wasn't suggesting that anyone who works on it get paid from the sales, just from a grant and I wasn't expecting THAT to be a huge sum. I was just saying that writing and editing are my day jobs and it would be nice to get a stipend to keep the critters in kibbles!***grin***

I now await word from the Tribal Counsel/Council? And, the rest of you!

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: alison
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 01:09 AM

Hi again,

Well in case we do get the go ahead. Here are a few of my favourites

How to create a folksong (folk songs for dummies)

Lyrics tae songs by the Furey's (the thread were Mick and Joe were fighting for my affections and we discovered that Joe can't use a washing machine!!

Help name an Irish band

Women's song circle (one of the many circles we had at Shula's place)

Of course theses are all light hearted ones.. there are a lot of serious ones should be in there too.

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Ferrara
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 08:29 AM

Here's some thoughts I posted in the xenophobia thread, before I read the above:

kat, and all, yes, yes, yes, let's authorize a book and, kat, dear, will you allow yourself to be nominated as a candidate for its author? I hereby so nominate you. Who wants to start a new thread so we can all argue this idea into oblivion or glory? (I'm sorry, katlaughing is too many keystrokes, and furthermore I have to spell it out as I type it. If you'd prefer not to have your name abbreviated, though, I'll make the sacrifice.)

Some years back the local folk music DJ, Mary Cliff, put together a Christmas program from singing done at the Folklore Society's Christmas party. She phoned each person the day before the show was to air, asking their permission to use their singing in the show. It seems to me this would be a good approach to use with the book. A two-pronged approach would work. First, anyone who has strong feeling about wanting to be excluded, or willingness to be included, can e-mail the designated author up front. Second, the D.A. can check with anyone he or she would like to include in the book who hasn't already stated their preference.

Money is a separate issue. One alternative is an arrangement where the first x dollars go to support Mudcat. Period. Then, if the thing actually makes some real profit (say, more than $300.00 *smile*), figure out a way for some of that profit to go to the people whose words were used. Maybe. That could be an administrative nightmare. How do you apportion royalties? Based on the number of posts? The number of words per post? The number of contentious responses to the post?

As far as profiting from the book, maybe we should be content to have a bio, with booking info etc, for each contributor. That can be done once and not drive some poor accountant crazy. If we start a book thread I'm sure hundreds of ideas will be proposed and argued and twisted and I can already start imagining the condom jokes. But let's do it! - Start the thread, I mean.

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 08:44 AM

I like the idea of a Best of the Mudcat book, if only because I would hope to show up in it (perhaps my posting of Follow the Drinking Gourd).

As a perennial doomsayer, I wonder who would buy such a book. I suppose those of us still employed might purchase one, but that may only be a hundred of us. Most people just pop in and out of the Mudcat.

Outside of that population (Mudcatters) who would buy it. Even in Folk Music circles I have difficulty getting people interested in even peeking at the Mudcat.

So, I ask, where is the market?

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Bert
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 09:03 AM

Roger,

It could be a software project - published online.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 09:34 AM

Actually, more than the threads specifically about music, I was thinking more along the lines of those postings which deal with global concepts: racial bias, pride of ancestry, etc., along with musical and humourous ones, too.

If it had the broader focus, as most of the threads do, I don't think there is any limit to market. Also, billed as one of the first ABOUT an actual, real-to-goodness trublue cyber-community, I would think would engender broader appeal. I ahve friends who've never been on here who already are interested in a book. My dad has never been on here yet eagerly awaits his next installment of Mudcat musings which I send him.

I think there are many markets and many ways of promoting something like this. BUT, I AM ALWAYS an optimist, so we need to temper my enthusiasm probably. I have, however, been in sales and marketing, so....do have some solid ideas.

I really don't think this would have to be something to sell just to the music market. A lot of my friends don't log on, a lot of people can't seem to find the time. Many of them would pick up a book on occassion and read a thread or two.

Then, again, it coould be on-line and they would have to log on, which is NOT bad idea.

Ferrara, I like the idea of giving everyone a plug whose stuff gets included, as long as others didn't resent it or feel left out for whatever reason. Oh, and "Kat" is fine, I just know we have somene else on here who uses that, too. So, if not in a thread where I am, how about KatL. or, what me da always called me, "Katty", either one is fine, just NOT Kathy!

As for money...this is making me a little uncomfortable. As I said it is my day job. To accept your nomination, which I want to do, I have to be crass and say, once again, I need to contribute here at home. I am not talking huge sums and it could be just a stipend, as I said before. But we are talking about a good sized time committment.

Thanks for your comments, keep 'em comin'!

kat

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 09:38 AM

Go for it, Kat! A few of my votes:
Spancil Hill
Music Therapy
Why We Sing
I'm sure I'll come up with others!
Peace,
Allison

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Margo
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 09:59 AM

I think it would be great to have profiles of mudcatters and how the mudcat fits into their lives, Or is this another book?

Margarita

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 10:36 AM

Margarita, probably it should be another book, but I LOVE the idea. This could be a lot less work, with each person writing their own "chapter/installment" and then someone just compiling that.

There are several women's books which have been done this way, which come to mind, including "Lesbian Nuns Breaking Silence", "Bisexually Speaking", and "On My Honor: Lesbains Reflect on their Scouting Experience". I'm sure there are other examples.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: AlistairUK
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 11:52 AM

This thing about lesbian scouts is a leg pull isn't it?

About the book, go for it, I think a biography for each person involved would be good idea.

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 12:17 PM

AlastairUK,

Sorry, no leg pulling or otherwise. One of my best friends has her own chapter!

Thanks!

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 12:41 PM

Is it anything like "Scouting for Boys"?!

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: SteveF (inactive)
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 12:51 PM

Mudcat is so-o-o much fun (really!) for the few dozen regulars (and occasional drop-ins) that we find it impossible to conceive it would be rated Dullsville X Stupid by the rest of the world. Are we really so witty, so wise, in anyone else's eyes?

Roger is correct: Where's the market?

Now, I'm not saying the project should be abandoned. Instead, we must realize the project is for ourselves... a bit of narcissism that feels so good. Everyone likes to see his name in print, right?

Not intending to be a wet blanket... but Kat, didn't you say that sometimes your enthusiasm needs to be tempered? Go for it, if you will. For Mudcat, if no one else; that's good enough!

-- SteveF

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Margo
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 01:45 PM

I like to write, so perhaps I'll go ahead and write the profile anyway. I'll let you read it first, Kat.

Margarita

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 02:34 PM

steve F.: nice point and thanks for the validation, but, did you read where I said how much my friends and family are enjoying the postings I send them or read to them? Yes...I did say that about my enthusiasm and I thank you for reining it it.

If what we want is something just for ourselves, then maybe the profile one with each persons favourite few postings, picked and edited by them, would be the way to go?

Margarita: do it and, please do NOT feel like I am the authority. I would be honoured and privileged to be the first to read it. Thank you!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: SteveF (inactive)
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 03:13 PM

As a former editor in the publishing world (encyclopedias), I had never-ending battles with my editor-in-chief, who would try (in vain) to drive home this message into my thick, young, skull: "KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE!"

I preferred to write my stuff for myself and my learned friends. I knew I was right, of course. What did he know? What's 25 years of experience compared to youthful enthusiasm? Or was that egocentrism? Now, years later, I find myself bellowing the same message all these fresh whippersnappers. The @#!%&# punks think they know everything! I've got textbooks older than they are, for chrissakes!

So tell me, Kat -- who is our audience?

-- SteveF

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 04:13 PM

Well, Steve F.: first off, I am not a %$#@%$#@#%$%whippersnapper! I HAVE been around the block a few times, too! And, I write to specific audiences all of the time, otherwise I would not have an op/ed column, as well as other writings which are published. Also, I would not have been the top billing salesperson at the radio station I worked at, if I hadn't known a thing or two about target audiences.

I can only speak from my own personal perspective and my three or so months on the 'Cat, but so far the "audience" here at home includes:

83 yr old male storyteller, fiddler, lover of literature;
50 something female paralegal and the people she work's with
several 20 somethings, M&F, who have nothing at all to do with music in their everyday life, except to listen to it and not often folkmusic.

several 40-50 somethings, same thing as above AND MANY MORE.

Steve F.: I think I am pretty thick-skinned, but I have to say I feel somewhat personal about your last posting.

I do not pretend to be an authority on anything. I simply asked for input and expressed my opinions.

If you don't agree with my viewpoint that is fine; that is why I started this thread, FOR INPUT FROM EVERYONE

Now, maybe everyone else who is interested in this will tell us who THEY think our audience is!

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 05:05 PM

Forgive my skepticism, but it seems to me that most of the prospective audience would be quite satisfied with a cyber-book--i.e., a page containing links to all the "best-of" threads, along with a bit of explanatory and biographical material.

Publish it as a webpage, right here on the mudcat!

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 05:19 PM

That's a great idea, Charlie! That would be wonderful! And, would head off a lot of possible problems which a book might entail.

Thanks, kat

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Pete M
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 06:49 PM

Damn, go away from the PC for a day and someone always beats you to it.

I would agree with Charlie that the most practical solution is an on line publication, probably with teaser paragraphhs and links. Although I like the idea of a "real" book, I feel, as Steve does, that we would never sell enough to cover costs, and Kat, even if we could find someone to give a grant or sponsorship, it seems to me that the practicalities of divvying that up internationally would take as much time as the book itself. Finally just who amongst is, despite their initial enthusiasm, really going to give up their 'Catting time to do the research, writing etc.?

Pete M (playing devils advocate as usual)

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 07:45 PM

Let me give you the view from the litterbox where all the shit ends up.

Thousands upon thousands of books are published yearly and most are right here in the litterbox. For a variety of reasons, they fail. Notice that the next year it happens again. And again. Here come last year's now...hold on while I "tidy up a spot." Funny thing, people just keep writing them in the face of reason. And...just like in many other endeavors...some are doing it just 'cause they want to, or love it, or something. Dumbasses; they need more evaluation, research, demographic knowledge, targeting and steering planning......AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH.

The further I am removed from my past life, the more I understand the phenomenon of creative loafing. Does anyone have great expectations, financial or otherwise, for doing a book ? Does anyone feel that it might just be both work and fun AND it's own reward. But maybe we could focus down and find a market. Something about building friendships in cyberspace perhaps. I'm thinking about a thread along those lines.

Plus...This here's the Newnited States where the "daggum gummint" will give you money as a grant for nigh ass near anything!!! Right now there is great interest in the net and kids, family life, attitudes. That might be something to research...what hasn't been researched and can we score a buck to cover costs and a buck for the 'Cat? Remember this is the government that forked over millions to research frisbees as fighter aircraft!

WISH I was gonna' be around all night tonight, but Karen and I have some things we gotta' do!!! When I get back I need to update Sandy Paton on Cletus and his stay at the Neil Young Center for the Terminally Screwed over on the Alvarez,Seagull,Washburn Guitar thread...then I'll be back. May start that new one first...or maybe better tomorrow.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 01:04 AM

Last night I wrote a message listing a few threads might be of interest to you, Kat, but I must have punched Clear Entries rather than Submit Message (I do that occasionally). Anyway, I said I was going to refresh some threads I thought you might find interesting--and did refresh the two that were still on my tracer, "Where is Spancil Hill?" and "Has anyone the courage now?" I also mentioned a couple or three others from last summer when I was a newbie here as interesting: one on the current Irish troubles, one on copyrights, and one on Bob Dylan's rumored illness--all three of them ventured into the contentious, even caustic, from time to time, and the last two became particularly unpleasant. I don't remember the exact titles of these--and I never have success refreshing threads unless I have them on my tracer (I can't even refresh my own postings which some people have written about doing), Anyway, I hope I have been of some help--and as for audience, the number of people who log onto Mudcat and exclaim what a wonderful place it is, I think, is indicative of a vast number of people who would enjoy reading a book. BTW, did you ever find the previous Mudcat Book thread. It was pretty funny. --seed

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 02:58 AM

I did find the old thread. It was a hoot, BSeed, Thanks for the info and input. I really appreciate it. kat

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Sean MacRuaraidh
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 05:40 AM

Kat

There was a good thread about conundrums - there were some 'gem' postings in there. You could've started a riddles book based around it and a joke book.

Wasn't that the thread with the fairies in the mirror discussion ?

Sean

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: sean MacRuaraidh
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 05:52 AM

Having an online section with the best threads is a good idea.

The problem is that it is hard to read a thread from scratch because a message can refer to three messages back or the discussion can wander. The threads are most fun when you are up to date and waiting for a reply and the thread is still alive and current.

Putting things in a book could have the benefit of removing a lot of noise from the chosen thread and providing more continuity. This would be a role for the editor.

I don't think a book would make any profit but would be happy to help out just to see a finished article and to say I contributed.

Maybe the best thing to do is to get people to a) select their favourite thread b) go through it taking out duff or pointless submissions c) rearrange remaining submissions into logical order d) submit edited thread in a standard document format that can be accepted by Mudcat.

The workload is shared therefore minimising the effort involved for each person. People get to work on threads they contributed to/enjoyed. The result is a set of formatted, edited easy to read documents that everyone has access to.

Sean

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 01:01 PM

The easiest, cheapest and simplest way to produce a "book" is electronically, on a CD-ROM. This offers the not-inconsiderable advantage of being self-indexing and readily searchable.

If anyone wishes to specify some threads for inclusion, I'd be willing to make some sample CD-ROMs up to see how it works.

I do NOT volunteer for any editorial tasks.

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 02:16 PM

Kat, something I forgot to mention: last fall three weeks in a row the threads crashed for some reason and people were using the Mudcat Help link both to express their anguish at being deprived of their drug of choice and to continue communicating (it works the same way as the threads do). Anyway, check that out (I'm gonna go see how much of that I can revive). --seed

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 02:40 PM

Thanks, seed, but it looks as though the best person to tell is Dick. I think he has a great idea and has made a very generous offer.

I will check it out, anyway, just for fun.

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 02:51 PM

Kat, I tried to refresh the Mudcat crash threads but couldn't--but they're easy to access. Just click on Mudcat Help in the links at the top of the threads list, go to 365 days in the time box and scroll down to November 9 and 10--the threads are titled Dead 'Cat Blues and What's Going On Now?. I'm also going to try to refresh a related thread on the regular threads list, Missing Mudcat Blues and if I can't, I'll refresh Some Shameless Self-Promotion--seed. --seed

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 03:04 PM

Dearest kat,

If my personal page was working I'd send you a message, but let me say that I "notice" a bit of depression from you. Hey...you got plenty of backing and helpers and the self appointed bottle washer and litterbox changer of all creative loafers who love you. Never let the brilliance of the corporate world stand in front of an idea that's just for fun anyway.

And I'm looking forward to my tape...got something fun to send back too!!!

catspaw

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 07:17 PM

Ahhh, Catspaw, yer such a sweetie...ya know we Aries tend turn burn bright and feverish when getting things started and if they don't go off like fireworks right away, as expected, we do tend to wallow in the litterbox a tad too much, probably.

I am REALLY OKAY with Dick's idea. I think it is good and practical. I will continue to print out my favs and put them in a ring binder to share with family and friends.

If I have time, I might even edit them a little and try to categorize. And, with the permission of those whose postings I love so much, I would probably be willing to send out photocopies to a few of like mind, gratis.

Sorry, we didn't get to the station last weekend to dub the tapes. Plan on getting it done this weekend and in the mail by Mon. or Tues.

Thanks so much to you and everyone else who has posted to this thread. I love you all,

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Helen
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 08:39 PM

Kat,

I echo catspaw's sentiments from the litterbox. I think that your idea is exciting, and whether it ends up as a book, a CD-ROM, or an on-line book doesn't lessen the excitement for me in any way. I would like to see it as a moneyspinner for Mudcat if possible, so maybe we could use on-line excerpts to tantalise people enough to buy the CD-ROM.

I also agree that if you do most of the work, and it *is* your day job then you should not lose money by the experience, and I also think that you should be recompensed for your labour.

If you had decided to simply take what you wanted from the thread, asking only for permission from those Mudcat contibutors you wanted to include in the book, and if you had published the book yourself, then you would gain from it, and rightly so, because it would be your editorial skills which made it happen in the first place. Being you, you would probably have donated a significant proportion, if not all of the profits (i.e. profits after expenses, including your labour) to Mudcat to keep it up and running.

So, by doing the right thing and not just getting out there and doing it on your own, you are now being buffeted by the winds of pro and contra arguments. But, just hang in there.

We all need to be gently reminded of the advantages and disadvantages, the potential wins, and the possible pitfalls of our scathingly brilliant ideas. And it's better to have it brought out before the project starts rather than after the commitment has been made.

Please just consider this as a cyber-brainstorming session to bring forth all of the relevant issues and actions which need to be considered. It all goes into the normal, healthy project planning process.

(I speak as a professional facilitator with experience in facilitating project planning sessions across large, complex organisations with many conflicting issues, views, priorities and outcomes to consider. The only difference here is that it is happening through a cyber-session rather than all being in the same room together. Just keep reminding yourself - *this is normal project planning behaviour* especially for the feasibility stage, i.e. the "what if" stage which is the most exciting and also the scariest stage.)

Lots of love and good vibes coming at you from across the Pacific, or Atlantic, depending which way you are facing at the time.

Helen, in Oz

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 11:34 PM

Helen,

More aften than not, I find myself feeling humble and SOOOO grateful, writing thank you, thank you to so many people of the 'Cat.

What a wonderful and insightful posting you've left! Thank you so very much. I am sure that you do an excellent job at facilitating; sounds very interesting and somewhat daunting!

That is why I love to share so much of the Mudcat with my family and friends...there are so many truly extraordinary people on here; the real life philosophers/doers/caretakers/givers of our times, with passion, thoughtfulness, fortitude, and Light in their hearts. I am so very grateful to my dad for asking me to search for lyrics and for stumblin' into the 'Cat when I did go lookin'!

(I wish everyone of you could come to MUDSTOCK 99!)

Now, my feathers, er....fur, is not longer ruffled, I am calm and peaceful, I see only bright light surrounding and enfolding us all in the spirit of harmony, melodious fluidity flows through the.....oh, that's right, this is NOT the new age chat room, is it!?***Big Grin***

Let the planning, of whatever sort, continue! Good vibes and love received and bounced back at you, Helen, and all!

KatLaughingAtHerself!

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Night Owl
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 01:11 AM

kat----just made it through an exhausting loooong day at work yesterday dealing with a temporary crisis....had a GREAT day today ( me and my Autoharp!!!) and even got some rest...so I think my brain may be working tonight at its normal limited best> Even though I think the idea of on-line stuff sounds great, can I encourage you to NOT give up on the book idea? I am brand new to the world of computors and relax with it ONLY while reading these threads......personally I would LOVE to be able to lie on my couch with my feet up and read!!!! To me, there's something more "special" about being able to share a book or hold a favorite book! I also have a few thoughts about grants but haven't had time to check them out yet...the more I think about it, the more I think that you would be the person to be paid under a grant. I also LOVE Sean Macruaraidh's idea above at first reading. (Sean-if you read this, can we just call you Sean Mac?) ...... And "what if" a book was out there that provided some insights to the commonality of people from different countries whose only common bond is their love of music? And "what if" there was a book out there that included insights from the horses' mouths about what was going on in our hearts and minds in the sixties, regardless of "Which Side" we were on,..... with the incredible "stand-up" comedy throughout these threads that gives us such belly laughs. And "what if" there was a book that chronicled factual stories showing that something else was happening besides being stoned all the time and wearing flowers in our hair.....which seems to be the current perspective of the generation after us and the mainstream news media when referring to the sixties etc.. And assessing what others think and how best to do it, "what if" we just did it because we WANTED to? And I agree, you should take a lead eventually, after all the information gathering is done. Keep an ear to Helen!!!! Patience with the communal PROCESS brings about a solid foundation....(I think)...but is the slowest method to produce a product. I think the hardest thing is for a "goal/product" oriented person to find the patience to put up with a "process" oriented person. Nuff of that...if you think this was long-winded, I'm trying to write a post to the Therapy thread....not a chance of keeping that one short either!!!!!Did I "hear" you say a year to coordinate and ensure funding for a book?? I think you're right!

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: BK
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 02:14 AM

I'd also have to say that the idea of a real (as opposed to virtual) book shouldn't completely die; I work w/computor all day & really have love/hate w/them at best. I too like to settle into the couch & put my feet up, have a fire going & a great lovely mug of hot cha, blended from my various types of loose teas.. Ah, that's the way to read a good book. Not a cyber-book. That is for the cyber-folk; I think the non-cyber audience might be there.

Now; if a real book was to be considered I'd think the audience would be something like the audience for those books by the Unitarian minister, (as usual, can't remember his name offhand; my wife says it's Robert Fulgrum [sp?]), such as "It Was On Fire When I Lay down On It," or possibly the "Lake Woebegone" (Garrison Keillor) book, not necessarily PHC (radio), audience. Perhaps it could be arranged loosely by topic areas & excerpt relevent sections from whatever posts, tho this would take more organizing, I think a lot more. It's late 'n i gotta get to bed, but I'll try to think & say more on it. there's the glimmer of an idea floating around in my dim awareness. I'll try to bring it more into the light.

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: BK
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 02:16 AM

I'd also have to say that the idea of a real (as opposed to virtual) book shouldn't completely die; I work w/computor all day & really have love/hate w/them at best. I too like to settle into the couch & put my feet up, have a fire going & a great lovely mug of hot cha, blended from my various types of loose teas.. Ah, that's the way to read a good book. Not a cyber-book. That is for the cyber-folk; I think the non-cyber audience might be there.

Now; if a real book was to be considered I'd think the audience would be something like the audience for those books by the Unitarian minister, (as usual, can't remember his name offhand; my wife says it's Robert Fulgrum [sp?]), such as "It Was On Fire When I Lay down On It," or possibly the "Lake Woebegone" (Garrison Keillor) book, not necessarily PHC (radio), audience. Perhaps it could be arranged loosely by topic areas & excerpt relevent sections from whatever posts, tho this would take more organizing, I think a lot more. It's late 'n i gotta get to bed, but I'll try to think & say more on it. there's the glimmer of an idea floating around in my dim awareness. I'll try to bring it more into the light.

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Ferrara
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 09:21 AM

KatL is absolutely right that if she is to be a major editor, even with support from some of the rest of us (yes, kat, I'm volunteering), she will need to be paid.

On the other hand, let's take this at a pace that lets the community contributions prepare the way so that the editor's job is merely monumental, not death-defying.

For example, I have in mind a series of threads, which anyone interested in seeing the project fly should put a tracer on, dealing with various aspects of the proposed book, to be started when the time is appropriate for each step. For example, "Mudcat Book - Possible funding?", or "Mudcat Book - Thread suggestions?" which latter of course will have to be broken off and a sequel started every time it get to 100 posts or so.... :-)

Don't be in a hurry, folks. This can be a nice fantasy or it can be a serious project. Serious projects take time even when they're fun and stimulating.

I tried to define the sort of audience that I visualize, but instead I found I have to describe the impact I would like the book to make. (Should we start a thread just for this question?)

What I want it to do is to paint a picture for the world of modern-day magic in a human sense, of the way that a group of people have harnessed technology to make their lives richer in friends, humor, warmth, sharing, and, oh, yes, in musical knowledge and information. This is a new kind of community, and I am convinced that the common love of folk music is self-selecting in some way to shape the character of the Mudcat. How can we communicate this? Would anyone else *like* to communicate this?

Evenings (and midnights and mornings) on the Mudcat leave me feeling happy and exhilarated, and I'd like the book to be well enough thought out to produce the same effect on the reader.

And, yes, I'd like it eventually to become a real book, even with bindings (paperback of course) and a publisher, in the due course of time. I'd hate to see it thrown together in a hurry, I'd hate to see it be pretty good when it has the possibility of being really great. Any opinions (of course there will be opinions! - Where would Mudcat be without opinions?)

Love, Rita F

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 06:07 PM

Dear Rita:

You make me smile so much! Thank you. I love your ideas, esp. since they are basically what I was thinking, but didn't say very well. Also, thanks for the statement about compensation. I think ANYBODY who does the majority of the work, i.e. editing, should be compensated, I don't care if it's me or whomever!

And, I have to echo the sentiments of those others who still like to hold a book in their hands. I love the computer and the Internet, BUT, I go to sleep after reading a "good book" at night, not holding my mouse, staring into the other-wordly glow of my monitor!

(For Catspaw et al: sometimes I go to sleep after doing other thngs, too! Like watching all those glow-in-the-dark condoms in that movie years ago [I think it John Ritter was in it], but none of them were as good as the Mudcat's ones'll be! But they were cute, so maybe we can do dayglow? And have a special pack of two, for "dueling scenes"?)***BIG GRIN***

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 28 Mar 99 - 01:00 AM

The other possibility that runs through my mind tonight is that a survey and analysis of Mudcat might be an appropriate thesis for some graduate student in folklore or anthropology or some related field. Such a student would produce a book without pay in exchange for a Ph.D. or some advanced degree. Of course, it'd be a lot more scholarly a book than the original proposers of this idea were conceiving.

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 11:35 PM

refresh just for the fun of it...dreams are important, eh?:-)

Subject: RE: Are we serious about a Best of Mudcat book?
From: Bert
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 11:41 PM

Dreams are important.

So Max if you don't want this to happen, email me at [e-mail] within 30 days from now Monday the 28th. August 2006.

Now the rest of you, email me with your requests for recommended threads for inclusion.

That's [e-mail]