Tech: violin help?

Subject: Tech: violin help?
From: GUEST,Matt - (a guest))
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 02:58 PM

Hi folks,

I'm an amateur luthier, mostly on guitars. I just got handed a violin for repair, a mid-level French Mirecourt-style violin from the early 20th c. The body has some structural integrity (indeed, the soundpost is still in and still where it belongs), but the neck is a mess. A child, playing with it, broke the neck off the body. The button on the heel is gone, the headblock in the body (spruce?) is cracked, and the edges of the dovetail holding the neck into the body broke off and remain in the dovetail recess.

Any thoughts on how to proceed? My inclination is to remove either the top or back and either make a new headblock or repair the existing one with hide glue. After that, I have to determine whether to make a new neck (yikes) or figure out how to make a functional dovetail out of what I have.

Any thoughts or advice appreciated.

thanks

Subject: RE: Tech: violin help?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 04:43 PM

After that, I have to determine whether to make a new neck (yikes) or figure out how to make a functional dovetail out of what I have.

Would it work to take one off another fiddle to retrofit?

I play autoharp-- we bastardize instruments as a matter of routine.

In antiques, one would call that "marrying" two pieces.

~S~

Subject: RE: Tech: violin help?
From: Bernard
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 04:52 PM

Maybe a little off the plot...

Why not convert to five strings?

That's how a friend of mine ended up with a fine and flexible instrument.

I suppose it's all down to who is going to pay?

Subject: RE: Tech: violin help?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 06:36 PM

"A child, playing with it, broke the neck off the body."

Nasty things sometimes, those sledge hammers....

Subject: RE: Tech: violin help?
From: Ned Ludd
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:11 PM

That's a major repair for an amateur, but a professional would have to consider the cost. The correct repair is to replace the button.(Graft a new one on) that involves removing the back. Then replacing the neck or grafting on enough wood to re-shape the joint. whichever way the scroll should be saved. From your description this would probably outweigh the value of the fiddle. it might be possible to 'marry' up a new neck if you could find one but it can be tricky also.

Subject: RE: Tech: violin help?
From: Bernard
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:33 AM

Yes, Ned, precisely why I suggested the '5 string upgrade' as a possible solution - it could increase the value of the instrument, if done well!

Subject: RE: Tech: violin help?
From: GUEST,Henry
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 02:05 PM

Matt, cut your losses. Remove the back, repair the cracked neck block with white glue, then screw (from the inside) and glue the neck back on. Yes, I did say screw (to hell with traditionalists)and again use white glue as it is stronger than the wood itself. You can glue the back on with hide glue to satisfy the unproven tone issue! This apparently crude approach will leave you with fewer finish repair issues (hopefully). Ignore any unhelpful suggestions about five stringers. Good luck!!

Subject: RE: Tech: violin help?
From: Songster Bob
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 02:11 PM

DON'T remove the back. Fiddle repairs almost always involve removing the top. Now, since you're dealing with a broken heel-block, the danger of removing the back is lessened, but in most cases, the integrity of the heelblock-to-back joint is very important, and one does not typically mess with it unless it can't be helped.

If the block can be repaired in place, the button can be grafted onto the back and then the neck, when it fits back into the dove-tail, can be glued to the button.

If this fiddle is a decent one, and your description sounds like it might well be, I'd take it to a real violin shop for at least an estimate. And ask them about the techniques you'd need to use if you do it yourself. For that matter, ask them whether the back or top should be the default removal choice for repairs.

Bob

Subject: RE: Tech: violin help?
From: GUEST,Ned at work
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 04:18 AM

In my experience it is quite difficult to carry out a button graft without removing the back but if in doubt get proffessional advice as Bob says...It can give you pointers on what to do.
White glue and screws ...bad idea but I'm sure you knew that!

Subject: RE: Tech: violin help?
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 06:27 AM

A child, playing with it, broke the neck off the body

I trust the young whippersnapper who caused all this trouble was given a sound thrashing and was sent to bed without any supper.

... I'll get me coat, before the PC brigade get here.

Ner, ner, ner, ner, ner, ner - blimey, here they come now - I'm off!