Whats the origins of the name Mudcat

Subject: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: collierlad
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 07:58 PM

Is to do with all the Mud slinging & cattiness that goes on!

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:03 PM

As

All NEWBIES should

net-etiquete demands that the FAQ's of a BBS should be consulted before posting a new thread.

Seek and Ye Shall Find (little Gremie)

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

can you read or were you educated in the Americas?

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:05 PM

Hang tight little guppy....

A more pedantic fish will lead you into the Grand Banks

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:23 PM

Mudcat's Frequently Asked Questions {FAQ} isn't the easiest read for a newbie of for a person whose been around the block for a little while.

I remember wondering about the origin & meaning of the name "Mudcat" was when I was new here, some 2 !/2 years ago.

Here's the answer to that question as found [after a considerable amount of searching] in Mudcat FAQ in or after this post:

Subject: Definitions and Terminology
From: Night Owl - PM
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 01:40 PM

"Define "mudcat"

mud cat any of several catfishes capable of living in Muddy Waters.
Source: Webster's New World College Dictionary

Catfish and Muddy Waters are inextricably connected to the Blues. Max started the place as a blues site, but generously invited us folkies to join him. "

thread.cfm?threadid=19340#196979

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: oldhippie
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:25 PM

click on "FAQ" at top of page and scroll to find the answer.

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:28 PM

Let me try that again [as I want to be clear if not pendantic-I'm not even sure what pendantic means, but I'll look it up for future reference]

"Mudcat's Frequently Asked Questions {FAQ} isn't the easiest read for a newbie or for a person whose been around the block for a little while."

-snip-

In other words, there are probably some people who consider Mudcat's FAQ an easy read, but I'm not one of them.

Not that it matters. I either struggle through the FAQ, or find out the information I'm seeking by using the Mudcat Search engine or by posting the question I'm curious about in a thread as collierlad did.

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:35 PM

Hmmm. No wonder I can't find the meaning of the word "pendantic". I meant "pedantic"

pe·dan·tic (pə-dãn'tĭk)
adj.
Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules: a pedantic attention to details.

pedantically pe·dan'ti·cal·ly adv.
SYNONYMS pedantic, academic, bookish, donnish, scholastic. These adjectives mean marked by a narrow, often tiresome focus on or display of learning and especially its trivial aspects: a pedantic writing style; an academic insistence on precision; a bookish vocabulary; donnish refinement of speech; scholastic and excessively subtle reasoning.

http://www.answers.com/topic/pedantic

-snip-

Hmmm {again}.

Well, I don't think that describes me. But that's neither here nor there.

And for those who might think that this post is waay off-topic, I'll add this info:

Noun
1. mudcat - flesh of scaleless food fish of the southern United States; often farmed
catfish
freshwater fish - flesh of fish from fresh water used as food

2. mudcat - large catfish of central United States having a flattened head and projecting jaw

flathead catfish, goujon, Pylodictus olivaris, shovelnose catfish,

spoonbill catfish

siluriform fish, catfish - any of numerous mostly freshwater bottom-living fishes of Eurasia and North America with barbels like whiskers around the mouth

genus Pylodictus, Pylodictus - flathead catfishes

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mudcat

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 05:06 AM

None of which answer what seems such a simple question!

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 05:19 AM

None of which answer what seems such a simple question!

I think it was answered in Azizi's 08:23 message above

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Cool Beans
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 06:55 PM

Good for you, Azizi!! Too many people have a hall monitor mentality. (And I was a hall monitor in my youth.)

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:16 PM

Kevin
"None of which answer what seems such a simple question!

I think it was answered in Azizi's 08:23 message above"

Well it told me all about some sort of fish??
But the origin of the term Mudcat for this group was, I thought, the point of the original question. Not an excuse for people with brains the size of planets to correct their own spelling mistakes and then continue to not answer a simple question. Sideways thinking worthy of the Dove I think!
Here for those with simple minds like mine is a simple question.
What is the origin of the term MUDCAT as applied to this chat forum we all love?

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:19 PM

Thanks Cool Beans {I think}.

Actually, when I was in elementary school eons ago, I wanted to be a safety patrol. I figured it would be "cool" to tell people when to stop and go. Besides, I liked the banner like strap that safety patrols wore.

But then I realized that I'd have to stand outside in the cold cold winter months. So I switched to wanting to be a hall monitor. But I was too shy to apply for those statusy positions.

The school that my daughter teaches in has students who are safety patrols, but doesn't have any student hall monitors.

Maybe it's just as well.

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Linda Goodman Zebooker
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:29 PM

Where I went to school, in Cincinnati Ohio in 1958, girls were not allowed to be in the Safety Patrol. Only boys. Girls were allowed to be Kindergarten helpers, which I was. Never occurred to us that this was weird. It was just the way it was.

Ok, back to the subject, thanks,

Linda

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:30 PM

an anagram perhaps?

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:35 PM

As Kevin Sheils wrote in his 13 Mar 07 - 05:19 AM post, I responded to the question asked in my 12 Mar 07 - 08:23 PM post:

Here's that pertinent excerpt from that post since it seems you somehow failed to read it:

"mud cat any of several catfishes capable of living in Muddy Waters.
Source: Webster's New World College Dictionary

Catfish and Muddy Waters are inextricably connected to the Blues. Max started the place as a blues site, but generously invited us folkies to join him. "

-snip-

Miskin Man, perhaps it didn't occur to you to notice that prior to my 12 Mar 07 -08:23 PM post the only one who responded to collierlad's question was gargoyle. And imo, his responses could be seen as offputting to new members and guests.

Perhaps it didn't occur to you to think that I could have been trying to correct the impression that some people might have that Mudcat is a contentious forum in which members get their jollies by routinely engaging in catty mudslinging.

And Miskin Man, pehaps it didn't occur to you that I was sharing information about fish as a means of keeping this thread alive so other members could add more pertinent history and information about how Mudcat got its name.

Perhaps it's too much like right for me to expect you to have 'gotten' what I was about...

But as to the spirit of your comments, Miskin Man, "sticks and stones" and all that jazz...

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:47 PM

Clear as mud now!
I await a clear explanation still, but I won't hold my breath!

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 08:52 PM

Miskin Man, it's interesting that you wrote that "I await a clear explanation still [for the thread question] but I won't hold my breath!"

Here's a post that refers to holding one's breath...and provides an answer to the question about the origins of the name "Mudcat":

RE: What the heck is a mudcat, anyway?
From: Susan-Marie - PM
Date: 05 Feb 99 - 08:11 AM

Steve - Quick, take a breath - by the look of the logo, a mudcat is a catfish, very common freshwater fish in the southern US and elsewhere, they can survive in areas with little or no water for short periods of time, hence you sometimes find them in mud rather than water. They have a mild chunky meat that's very popular - so much so that catfish aquaculture is big business in the south.

Being a Yankee (from northeast US) I won't attempt to explain how a catfish became the logo for a folk and blues group, but I'm guessing it has something to do with the southern roots of a lot of that music.

OK, now that you're breathing, I'd better get back to work...

-snip-

thread.cfm?threadid=9022#57334

-snip-

Here's another response to that question:

Subject: RE: Help: What IS a Mudcat?
From: Art Thieme - PM
Date: 26 Apr 00 - 11:06 AM

A Mudcat is anyone who makes the effort and takes the time to s-w-e-e-p the scum of the present off the top of the pond in order to look down through the depths of history to the dwelling place of other mudcats where the true gems of traditional musical antiquity can be found (if you'll only look).

Art Thieme

thread.cfm?threadid=20762#218273

-snip-

I bet if you read through the related threads that are hyperlinked above the listing of posts for this thread, you'll find more responses to this question.

To summarize the key points I've gathered from many of these responses:

1. Max {the founder/owner of this site} is interested in and likes Blues music
2. Blues is a Southern {American} music
3. The catfish {mudcat} is largely considered to be a Southern species of fish that is found in muddy water
4. "Muddy Water" is the name of a well-know Bluesman
5. Max invited folkies to join his Blues website {hence the banjo and the mudcat fish in the icon}

Of course, having the Digital Tradition housed at Mudcat was/is an important reason why folk singers, musicians, and other people interested in folk music rather than {or in addition to} blues music were/are active on Mudcat.

Also, though I'm not sure it's noted in any of the previous responses to this question, the word 'cat' is a hip jazz referent for 'man'. Jazz came from blues. This may be factored into the ambiance of the name "Mudcat" for a music forum.

**

Of course, this is my take on what I've read. I'm interested in hearing from others.

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 10:52 PM

Right, Art. I don't see what's not to get. Maybe it's because some folks wind up coming directly to the forum and miss the opening (home) page.

I blundered in sometime in 1999 when someone told me about Digital Tradition being an on-line database for all kinds of song lyrics, so I went searching the internet and the search brought me to the Mudcat Café home page. I noted the catfish (mudcat) jumping through the banjo head, saw the links to articles such as the one on Robert Johnson, noted a link to the blues museum, and got the connection right away. It ain't exactly theoretical physics.

Max, who is particularly interested in blues, started this web site, and he chose the name "Mudcat Café" and the mudcat and banjo as the logo. He is graciously and generously allowing us to use the site as a forum for all kinds of folk music. Thank you, Max!

Once I'd located DT and knew how to get back to it, I checked out the forum and spotted a few familiar names, such as Sandy Paton, whom I had known in Seattle and whom I hadn't seen since the Berkeley Folk Festival in 1960. I read through a few threads, started adding my two-bits worth, and have been wasting an incredible amount of time here ever since—in addition to learning a few things and meeting some folks on line that I later met and had a chance to swap songs with in person.

The question has been answered several times in this thread by Azizi and others, particularly Art's point-by-point explanation, so I fail to see why the confusion seems to continue. Anyone who still doesn't get it should take a look at the Mudcat home page. That should give one several clues, in addition to what's been posted here.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 10:57 PM

"Clear as mud now!
I await a clear explanation still, but I won't hold my breath! "

Too bad. You might pass out and awake with something that more closely resembles a human disposition.

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 04:10 AM

You are the only one who seems confused by Azizi's explanation Miskin Man but I can't be arsed to explain it to you any more than is already here.

Peace's contribution above sums it up

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 05:01 AM

Ok, I think I've got it now. My confusion started because I did indeed come straight to the Trad Song base and from there to the forums. I take the point that if I had started from the original front pages and had a background in blues the mud would have cleared a lot quicker. In that context it is a brilliant title and logo!

There is always a bit of devil's advocate in me, but that is often what keeps the threads alive. I don't think I've been particularly offensive in my posting just a bit deliberately slow on the uptake at times!
As for Peace suggesting I might be needing a more human disposition - no thanks I had one of them once but then I grew a beard.
Cheers each,
Andy

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 08:36 AM

Of course, one could always ask Max.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Mr Happy
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 09:01 PM

It's an ANAGRAM!!

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 09:42 PM

Max was playing some blues with Pene Azul in his basement one day, and he had the urge to say, "Welcome, welcome, welcome, to the Mudcat Cafe". This explanation is in a thread somewhere, but I haven't found it yet. So I guess when the forum was started, Mudcat Cafe was a logical choice for a name.

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 09:54 PM

I got it wrong. Here's the post and the thread...

Yes, a mudcat is a catfish. The story goes that me and some friends made a habit of jammin in one of the guys basements. He had a sound system that made it sound just like it would in a bar. One day, for no real reason, I started the jam with "Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Mudcat Cafe!", and it soon became tradition to begin every jam that way. It's a dream of mine to own an actual establishment called The Mudcat Cafe... and start every night that way.

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=5805#top

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: collierlad
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 07:22 PM

Hyperbole

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 08:06 PM

Hyperbole= Herby Pole!

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: NormanD
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 03:57 AM

I hate to spoil a nice old spat.....

Here's your chance to groan, roll your eyes skywards, and refer me to the FAQs. My question is:
Where does the Café come in? Mudcat - yes, I understand now, thank you - but tell me more about the Café.

How good's the coffee?

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 11:11 AM

The coffee at the Kitchen Table is excellent.

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 11:22 AM

"Café" is just a term for a place where people gather to chat....."Forum" might be a tad more accurate, but is not nearly so elegant and friendly.

And we DO have little threads specially designed to feel like a café or bar...

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Max
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 11:43 AM

Well, the real story is that after college, I was doing some freelance work for the FBI. We got to talking about a plan they had to somehow get all the subversive left-wing liberal "musicians" all together in one place that we'd be able to monitor and record their every word without the need for any pesky warrants or civil rights.

As you know, the FBI has been theorizing for years about how subculture, therefore groups contrary to authority, have been initiated and influenced by folk musicians. Folk music is the voice of the people and the government has never liked when the people talk to each other. Long story short, the UK then got involved, but soon after declared victory of their citizens and dropped out, although they still request reports of certain members in and around the Harlow area.

As for the name Mudcat, the FBI did some sort of study involving kindergarten teachers and LSD to find a word that was safe and welcoming, that would convey the appropriate social connotations for such a group to convene.

I figured it was only a matter of time before someone figured it out, with Joe Offer's well known associating with Military Intelligence and Vatican related espionage and propaganda, and Dick Greenhaus's nearly century long affiliation with the Communist Party and Harry Belafonte.

As for me? I just did it for the LSD.

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 12:57 PM

Pah!

A smokescreen if ever I saw one!

It was originally set up by Max, A CIA operative, as bait to attract all the lefty (and righty) folkies and bluesies in one place together, so that he could be sure who not to waste time with when gathering intelligence.

And sure enough he has yet to find any useful intelligence among us -though I am led to believe that there has been known to be a fair bit of flatulence from time to time.

In fact, it has been rumoured that Max is to be moved from the CIA to the environmental agency as emissions here are considered to be dangerously high and are being blamed for global warming.

Though of course it would be churlish just to blame "fossil fools" (nyuk nyuk).

Azizi,

looks like yet another attempt to police what questions may be asked or answered has failed. You know how to treat people don't you. More power to your pen.

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Scoville
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 01:18 PM

You know--it never even occurred to me to wonder about why it was the MUDCAT Café. I always thought that catfish + banjo = folk & blues discussion site made perfect sense.

I mean, what do you eat to go with banjo and blues? It would have to be cornbread and greens and hopping john and catfish . . .

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 01:24 PM

And it sounds cool

THE MUDCAT CAFE

Its the name of a film ...

Hurry up and build that cafe Max.

Make it big though -

Imagine what opening night will be like!!

This has to be the most succesful promotion for an unopened cafe in history.

I reckon you could get a loan from any bank manager once he sees just how many people there are world wide prepared to make the effort to get there.

I WANT A CAMPAIGN STARTED!!!!!

WHO'S WITH ME ....

WE WANT A MUDCAT CAFE

WE WANT A MUDCAT CAFE (etc)


How many members are there now?

How many established folk acts prepared to play on opening night?


Wowee!!!!!

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 01:25 PM

Of course you'll need franchises in the UK and Australia ...

And it doesn't even have to be about the money!

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 01:37 PM

Will there be tea and scones ??

Dave

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Lox
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 01:43 PM

Ask Max

(Oh Shit - sorry if this is a tired old idea that people are sick of hearing "inspired" folks harp on about)

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 08:53 PM

lox,

I'm not sure where you're coming from with your comment directed to me in your 21 Mar 07 - 12:57 PM post.

But I'll say "More power to you, also".

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 09:23 PM

lox,

It just occurred to me that in keeping with the 1970s lingo,
I should have said

"Write on!"

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 May 07 - 08:37 AM

"As for Peace suggesting I might be needing a more human disposition - no thanks I had one of them once but then I grew a beard."

HEY!

Subject: RE: Whats the origins of the name Mudcat
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 May 07 - 01:44 PM

I don't know why I tortured myself by reading through all this ~ I aleady knew the answer, and even knew what kinds of misunderstandings and conflicts to expect from various quarters.

But what I didn't know was the part about the FBI and CIA. Thanks for filling us in, Max!

Incidentally, I had discovered the Mudcat Cafe and the DT separately from each other, way back when the DT was "hosted" at the XeroxPARC server. Mudcat was much more exclusively devoted to the blues and closely-associated American folk forms at that time, of course, and back then no one was asking what "mudcat" might have meant. (This was years before I joined up and adopted my fake name, by the way.)