The Musical Listening Test

Subject: The Musical Listening Test
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:19 PM

Click below to participate in a study from the University of Newcastle Upon Tyne: The Musical Listening Test

For those who want more information before they click:

We are interested in studying musical perception ability in the general population. The following 2 tests, developed by Isabelle Peretz (University of Montreal), take less than 8 minutes each. They involve listening to pairs of tunes and deciding whether they are the same or different. Once you have completed both tests you will receive your scores.

Seems odd they don't ask about participant's musical education and experience, or lack thereof. Those who've had ear training, for example, would surely do better on the tests. Ditto those who find the test through a musician's site like Mudcat!

But who am I to question Science? And the little test is fun, so enjoy!

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Sooz
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:41 PM

Not sure about un - it dragged on a bit! I scored 23/30 on each test.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Amos
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:57 PM

28 out of 30 on both, not bad but not perfect.
I wonder what they are seeking to determine with this?

A

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:59 PM

30/30 and 27/30 thanks to my brother, parents, sisters and teachers for the great ear training. That was fun!

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: My guru always said
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 01:33 PM

Did mine a while back & got 30/30, am on their list to be called in when they get it all sorted out!

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Surreysinger
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 01:39 PM

28/30 for each test - and invited to carry on to next stage. Hey, My Guru, that's impressive!

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Marje
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 02:06 PM

I've also been asked to go on to the next stage (but they do say they're inviting a cross-section). First time I scored 29 and 30, and then in the 2nd stage they ask you to re-take it, and I got 30 and 30. They want to test close relatives, so I hope I can persuade my brother and my 2 daughters to take part. I'd be interested to see their scores.

The results are shown in
http://www.delosis.com/listening/summary.html
Look I'm sorry, every time I try to do a blue clicky it doesn't work. You can't be good at everything :-).

Marje

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 02:10 PM

My wife took the test and got perfect scores so they asked her to do it again!
She wants me to try it but I'm afraid of flunking the only thing I'm supposed to be good at.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 03:29 PM

As noted they say they are taking a cross section, Jim Lad, so p'raps there'd be no problem?:-)

I was invited back, managed a 30/30 and 29/30. Have invited my family. I would be interested in the final tally, too.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 06:03 PM

Yay! 30 out of 30 on both tests second time around !

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 06:09 PM

Cluck, Cluck!

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 10:27 PM

I was about to do it but am supposed to wait for Brenda's "Personal Link" since she has already done it. (honest)

cheep, cheep!
Jim Little.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: My guru always said
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 03:59 AM

Thanks SurreySinger, I thought it was a fluke, but tried both tests again afterwards with the same result. It was interesting to think about how my immediate family would do, though I passed on the email and invited them, none of them are at all musical so maybe I'm a fluke too *grin*

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 04:34 AM

I just did the test - phew, it takes a bit of concentration.

Do they email the results or what? How do you find out your score? They didn't tell me.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: bubblyrat
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 06:34 AM

Hard to concentrate as you get older !! Just did it the once and got 28/30 & 26/30, so not bad for nearly 60 ----I"m happy with that, anyway !!

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Marje
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 06:54 AM

Don't know why you didn't get your scores, Scrump, they should just come up on the screen when you've done the last test.

My daughter just e-mailed me to say she'd got 29/30 in both tests. What I'd really like is to see how my very unmusical husband scores, but I doubt if I could persuade him to try it. I'd have to remind him that even random guesses will result in a score of about 15, so even a low score could look quite respectable.

Marje

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Surreysinger
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 06:59 AM

Just noticed - that guest with 30/30 on second time around was me... so snap Guru!!! Interestingly enough my concentration was better second time around... I'm going to email it on to my sister, and also to a choral singing friend of mine. Only thing is - having now done that test twice, do they do any more? Can't see that they do...

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: *daylia*
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 07:40 AM

I found the tests easier the 2nd time round, and as others have noted above, my scores were higher too. Hmmmm ... that's probably because they use mostly the same set of tunes for the second set of tests -- a definite advantage for anyone who plays by ear. (or, I thought they were the same tunes, with some minor rhythmic changes - did anyone else notice this?)

And I'm wondering -- how many of you who got perfect scores studied ear training?

LIke a couple others above, I got 29/30 and 30/30 the first time, and perfect scores on both tests the second time   

BUT   

I'm a music teacher. I've supported myself my whole life by concentrating on music, training ears and eyes and hands, listening carefully enough to pick out and correct the 'wrong' notes, fix the timing mistakes, help with technique, style and expression etc. So, if I failed to get an exceptional score on (relatively) simple ear tests like these, I'd know I really missed my calling!

It will be interesting to see how my family does on the tests. So far,
results do NOT indicate a genetic component for musical perception/ability -- my mother just scored 20/30 twice, my father >20.

Not surprising at all imo -- their musical education and experience is MUCH more limited than my own (thanks to them!).

Still waiting on my kids and sibs, and I highly suspect the results will be much the same. I think everyone is born with musical 'talent' and ability. Some have the opportunity and motivation to develop their inborn musical potential. Others do not. A 'good ear' is a LEARNED skill, in my opinion. But we'll see -- it's studies like these that will eventually sort out the influence of nature vs nurture on musical behaviour.   Exciting stuff!   :-)

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 08:06 AM

yay! 29/30 then 30/30. I wonder what happens at the next stage. (They haven't asked me or anything.)

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 08:06 AM

28/26

that's with a really bad head cold, and stuffed ears (general woozyness).

EWIS

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Bee
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 08:40 AM

28 and 27, not so good, but I have no musical or ear training training to speak of, except from learning to play and sing with guitar this past year. Note to dialup users: takes about six minutes to load each test.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: bfdk
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 09:18 AM

Hmmm, interesting.. I come from a totally non-musical background, I can't sing, can't play any instruments and have never even tried to learn. Furthermore, I realized only halfway through that variations in timing should also "count". Given that, I think my score of 23/24 is quite respectable :-)

Best wishes,

Bente

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Black Diamond
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 10:43 AM

oh well I got 28 and 25 so Im a hopeless cause
- but not bad for someone completely untrained, and didnt start playing till 4 years ago at the age when life is supposed to start
Lin

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Marje
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 10:48 AM

I should think that the reason they're interested in comparing close relatives is to look for a genetic component. But then they must also be aware that people who are closely related are likely to have lived for a long time in the same household and be exposed to much of the same musical influences. If, say, a parent plays and listens to a lot of music, the children will be exposed to that, and probably encouraged to sing and learn an instrument.

I'm not so sure that ear training makes a big difference. My brother and I just had naturally good musical ears (and were, by the way, much better singers than our parents) without any formal training. Of the four children we've produced between us (with different partners, I hasten to add), two are still actively engaged in music in their adult lives.

When my daughter came to take exams in music, her teacher was quite relieved to find that she was good at the aural tests, because she said it wasn't easy to teach this to a pupil who found it difficult. I think it may be a bit like "intelligence" tests: some familiarity with the format of the tests may help, but there's a limit to how much anyone can be taught to perform well at such tests.

Marje

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 10:54 AM

Don't know why you didn't get your scores, Scrump, they should just come up on the screen when you've done the last test.

Doh! I never thought of that! :-)

I think I must have been distracted at the time I finished the test, and accidentally exited from that screen (the phone rang).

I've emailed them for the result, but if they don't send it I guess I'll have to go through the process again (or not!)

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: GUEST,guest Tim
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 11:25 AM

For 73 year old ears with a bad case of tinnitus I got 24/30 and 26/30. I think that's pretty good, huh?

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 03:28 PM

Well, I still don't know what score I got, but I've got an email asking me to proceed to the next stage, so maybe I passed? Not sure.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: My guru always said
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 03:55 AM

Am sure you've passed Scrump, but think they're asking a cross-section to come in anyway. It was months ago when I did the first test and they put the second test out only a few weeks ago, so the process may take some time yet. Don't worry if you don't hear anything for a while, they may even devise another on-line test to weed a few more people out!

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 04:31 AM

Talking about the test itself, I found it a bit tedious to do. Do they really need so many samples (2 x 30)? I guess they have their reasons, but a lot of the tests sounded pretty similar to me, in terms of the differences between the two 'tunes' in each exercise. I think I got one wrong because I lost concentration with the tedium of it all. Couldn't they do something to make it more interesting, such as use different instruments or something?

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Marje
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 06:30 AM

I suppose they have to eliminate as many variables as possible, because otherwise the differences in score could be due to some instruments being clearer or more audible than others, or something.

Incidentally, my second daughter has just done the test and says her score didn't appear, even though she was looking out for it. Did you ever get yours, Scrump? and did anyone else not see their scores?

Marje

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 06:53 AM

No, Marje, I emailed them asking if they could tell me but they haven't replied, so far. I got the 'invite' to proceed to the next stage though, but I don't know if that proves anything. I may do it again if I get time.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 07:25 AM

The scores are at the very top of the page that appears after you finish the tests and answer the questions "could you hear the tunes" and "were you paying attention".

....people who are closely related are likely to have lived for a long time in the same household and be exposed to much of the same musical influences. If, say, a parent plays and listens to a lot of music, the children will be exposed to that

Marje, I agree that coming from a 'musical' family' seems to play a large part in how music might 'run in families'. But it's not the only factor! Two of my sons completed the tests yesterday -- the first got 23 and 24/30 (but I noticed he clicked "no!" to the question "were you paying attention"    little ****** aarrgghhh!), the second 26 and 27.

All three of my kids studied piano with me for a couple years. Two studied music (brass) in high school, and two play guitar by ear. But none of them studied ear training, and none sing or play instruments regularly these days either.

It will be interesting to see how the 3rd one does -- the one who scored 23 and 24 (without paying attention    arrrrrrggghhh!) is his identical twin.

Yes, some music students need a lot more time, patience, encouragement and personal motivation to prepare for aural tests than others, but it certainly can be done.

In my first years of teaching, I had an adult student who came in telling me she was 'tone-deaf'. And indeed, she could not sing in tune, or match a pitch correctly. But as a newbie teacher, I did not have the wisdom or experience yet to just write her off as a 'hopeless case'    ;-)

So we worked first on "higher or lower" (have student turn around, play two tones, ask which one is higher), then on matching pitches (singing), then on playing back simple little 3-note tunes by ear. THis process took many months, but she was determined to succeed and eventually DID learn to hear the differences, sing in tune and play back the melodies accurately!   By the time she finished her lessons with me, she'd completed her Grade 8 piano INCLUDING all those (relatively) complicated ear tests! She wowed herself, she wowed me, and it's students like these that are behind the attitudes I expressed above.

I wonder if there's a 'hidden factor' in those tests to measure personal musical motivation and determination. If not, why not?

;-)

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 07:43 AM

I wonder what they deduce from the "were you paying attention?" question. I wass of course trying to pay attention, but I had a couple of interruptions (phone calls etc.) which meant I wasn't paying attention as much as I would have liked, all the time.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 07:57 AM

That's what my son said too, Scrump -- he was trying to pay attention, but found the tests tiresome and knew he'd 'drifted away' a few times.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 07:59 AM

(I just questioned him about it again)

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 06:52 AM

Yay! They replied to my question and I got 29/30 in both parts. I'm pretty sure the ones I got wrong were through distraction/concentration wandering, through the sheer boredom of having to do 60 tests without a break.

So, has anyone done the 2nd part yet?

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Surreysinger
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 07:07 AM

I'm confused by references to the "second part" - is this the bit which is as a result of doing the test the first time round, and then getting an email asking you to go through it all over again.... if so, yes, got to that part and got 30/30 for both parts... but is there a stage after that, or is that the end of it????

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 07:24 AM

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I believe that once they have completed the first test (two parts of 30 questions each as you say), some people (or all?) get invited to do a further stage. This is what I was asking about above.

I'm not sure what the criteria are for being invited to go further - or whether it's just a random subset of those doing the first 60 questions.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: jacqui.c
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 07:25 AM

I just got 28 and 30.

Coming from a non-musical family I can't say that background helped but I do seem to be able to pick up tunes relatively fast.

I had to listen carefully - some of the differences were fairly minor.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 07:51 AM

Yes they were. And that makes me wonder if the test is really a more accurate measure of a subject's ability to focus and concentrate on the task at hand, than of musical perception and ability per se.

My dad just took the test yesterday, and scored exactly the same as my mother - 20/30 on both tests. So much for a genetic basis for musical ability, at least in my case!

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: My guru always said
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 07:59 AM

Scrump: the second 'test' was the second set of 30 questions. They were only set up a few weeks ago, whereas the first 'test' was last autumn.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Surreysinger
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 11:02 AM

Ah... got it now! So I've actually been through the second stage. Having read the email they sent, it seems obvious that that's it, apart from passing the details on to friends and family...

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 11:05 AM

Ah! Because the email seemed to be inviting me to do a second stage, I thought there must be more, but from what you say, it sounds as if that's the lot (the two sets of thirty questions). The people running the tests should probably update the emails to make it clearer.

Subject: RE: The Musical Listening Test
From: jacqui.c
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 11:11 AM

My daughter just took the first test and got 27/30 on both. She likes music but is not INTO music as such.