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06 May 07 - 07:25 PM (#2044860) Subject: Origins: Universal Soldier From: Mrrzy I got this from someone at the Rally to Protest the Veto - whaddya think? Interesting stuff! Not that I ever thought of Buffy Sainte-Marie as Rock'n'Roll... Also, isn't Tracy Chapman more of a 90's phenom? Buffy Sainte-Marie's censored sounds by: Brenda Norrell Posted: August 05, 2006 Indian Country Today Link PHOENIX - Nearly two decades after Cree singer and songwriter Buffy Sainte-Marie's song "Universal Soldier" was released and shipments of her records mysteriously disappeared, the truth of the censorship and suppression by the U.S. government became public. Now, in federal court, Charles August Schlund III stated he is a covert operative and supports Sainte- Marie's assertions that the United States took action to suppress rock music because of its role in rallying opposition to the Vietnam War. Sainte-Marie says she was blacklisted and, along with other American Indians in the Red Power movements, was put out of business in the 1970s. "I found out 10 years later, in the 1980s, that [President] Lyndon Johnson had been writing letters on White House stationary praising radio stations for suppressing my music," Sainte-Marie said in a 1999 interview with Indian Country Today at Dine' College. "In the 1970s, not only was the protest movement put out of business, but the Native American movement was attacked," Sainte-Marie said. In an affidavit to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in a Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act lawsuit against President George W. Bush and others, Schlund alleged he has been tortured in his attempts to reveal the truth about the Bush family's manipulation of U.S. voting results and the Drug Enforcement Agency's covert drug supplies to black communities. Detailing the assassinations of the Kennedys and exposing the "Don Bolles" papers, named after the murdered Phoenix news reporter, Schlund said he remains alive today because of FBI protection. Schlund, who said he previously worked in the covert drug operations in Phoenix, said rock music posed a threat to the United States and played a role in opposition to the Vietnam War. In his federal court affidavit, Schlund said he has knowledge of "the detailed plans for the break-up and destruction of rock n' roll music including the assassinations of many people to achieve their goals. The detailed plans to replace rock n' roll music with all-American music called country western." "This massive CIA and DEA covert operation was being conducted to stop political overtones in the rock n' roll music and to stop foreign influences on Americans caused by the exposure to foreign music. This operation was conducted because the Rockefellers had lost the Vietnam War because of the protest that was in part directly linked with rock n' roll music. In these files, the Rockefellers had needed the natural resources of Vietnam for the expansion of their corporate empire and they blamed the loss of the war in part on rock n' roll music. "The assassinations started long before Vietnam but the plans to replace rock n' roll with country western music started during the Vietnam War and have continued to the present," Schlund stated to the court. In his federal court affidavits filed in Maricopa County in Arizona, Schlund also stated that singer Buddy Holly, killed in an airplane crash in 1959, was considered a threat to the U.S. government. Meanwhile, Sainte-Marie said she cut a singular path as she was being censored in the '60s and '70s. "I usually didn't do what other people did. You didn't find me at peace marches. I was out in Indian country." Earlier, a young Bob Dylan heard Sainte-Marie sing in Greenwich Village and recommended she perform at the Gaslight, another hangout of the avant garde. Janis Joplin, Elvis Presley and Tracy Chapman were among those soon recording her lyrics. On the road, she traveled the world and received a medal from Queen Elizabeth II. During this time, Sainte-Marie was selling more records than ever in Canada and Asia. But in the United States, her records were disappearing. Thousands of people at concerts wanted records. Although the distributor said the records had been shipped, no one seemed to know where they were. One thing was for sure: They were not on record store shelves. "I was put out of business in the United States." Later, Sainte-Marie discovered the censorship and pressure applied to radio stations by Johnson during the Vietnam era, particularly toward "Universal Soldier" during the anti-war movement. Sainte-Marie said Native people were put out of business, not just because they were succeeding in Indian country, but because they were succeeding in the broader community. She and others were a threat to the moneymakers of concert halls, uranium and oil, she said. Then, fellow activist and Santee poet John Trudell's wife, mother-in-law and children were burned to death in a mysterious house fire shortly after Trudell burned an American flag in Washington, D.C., Feb. 11, 1979. "I was just one person put out of business. John Trudell is just another person whose life was put out of business. Anna Mae Aquash and Leonard Peltier were put out of the living business - we were made ineffective," Sainte-Marie said of slain American Indian Movement activist Aquash and imprisoned Peltier. But Sainte-Marie continued with her music and efforts with children after becoming a familiar face on "Sesame Street." In the 1990s, from her home in Hawaii, she created the Cradleboard Teaching Project to link American Indian students with other students online around the world. Remembering the 1970s and Trudell, Sainte-Marie said, "We just kept chugging on. We kept coming to Indian country. We didn't worry about the fortune and fame because we went with our sincerity, our hearts and with our friends." Those years, however, were filled with pain. "It was hard - seeing people hurt," she said. (c) 1998 - 2006 Indian Country Today. End of email. Sorry about the double-spacing and all. |
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06 May 07 - 07:33 PM (#2044866) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: Mrrzy Here is a link to all prior conversations about this song. I didn't see anything about this particular thing, though, so I thought a new thread would be best. |
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06 May 07 - 07:34 PM (#2044867) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: Mrrzy Oh, well, you can type "Universal Soldier" (in quotes) into the search box and get the same thing. Don't know why the link didn't work... |
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07 May 07 - 07:36 AM (#2045109) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: bubblyrat Here in the UK, it was Donovan who had the hit with Universal Soldier, which was a much-admired and thought-provoking song. Of course, we never thought of it here as being in any way subversive or politically provocative------just a good, and meaningful song !! But then we never had McCarthyism, Reds under the Bed, or any other of that paranoid US hysteria !! Even today, here in Britain, one could write and perform a bitingly satirical protest-song about the war in Iraq, and the British government wouldn't even notice !! ( They have more important issues than angry folk-singers to worry about ).But if what you say (and Buffy says ) is true, then it is indeed a sad example of the mind-set of 20th century US politicians. Donovan Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exjSGNJ3ziE |
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07 May 07 - 10:53 AM (#2045205) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: John on the Sunset Coast This sounds like a bit of paranoia to me. Buffy Ste. Marie's "Universal Soldier" had extensive air play on stations that played folk music (there weren't that many), and even here in the States there were folk rock covers of the song. I, conservative even then, still have my original copy of her album, "It's My Way," which features 'U.S'. It's as powerful now, as it was then. BSM went from folk music, to folk/country, to acting and to a long run on PBS--Sesame Street, I think. Did someone steal some of her recordings? I don't know. Did it matter to her career if they did? Probably not. Ideas don't go away with petty pilferage. Did Lyndon Johnson like her? Hell, he probably didn't like 99% of the folk/protest songs or singers! |
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07 May 07 - 11:00 AM (#2045209) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: artbrooks As best as I remember, I bought that record (which I still have) at the PX in Danang in 1971. Maybe all of the missing records were being shipped to Vietnam for sale to soldiers? |
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07 May 07 - 11:14 AM (#2045217) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: Rog Peek Phil Ochs was certainly not on J Edgar's Christmas Card list. FBI file 410 pages long. |
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07 May 07 - 12:35 PM (#2045255) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: open mike buffy st marie has gone on to be a celebrated and decorated educator in canada, receiving honors for her mathematics teaching tools and for encouraging first nations youth to express themselves artistically. http://www.creative-native.com/ her songs definately contained (then and now) enlightening ideas and spoke of the native experience and huan experience in terms that really hit home for many. |
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07 May 07 - 03:20 PM (#2045377) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,Tinker in Chicago OK, Buffy, if that's the way you want to remember it. But anti-Vietnam songs and peace movement songs were recorded by Pete Seeger, Joan Baez, Country Joe and the Fish, Buffalo Springfield, Tom Paxton and even the white-bread Kingston Trio, for heaven's sake ("Where Have All the Flowers Gone?"). Why didn't the government confiscate their recordings too? |
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07 May 07 - 03:45 PM (#2045402) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,Tunesmith Why Tinker? Just spend a few minutes thinking about it, please! But, here's a clue: There are anti-war songs, and there are anti-war songs! |
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07 May 07 - 03:52 PM (#2045411) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: artbrooks BTW, Charles August Schlund III, quoted in the article Mrrzy copied above, is noted for such things as filing suit against Georgy B to have him remove the electrodes the DEA implanted in his neck some years ago and which he blames for his diabetes and other ailments. |
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07 May 07 - 05:16 PM (#2045473) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: Greg B Too bad they didn't lose all the copies. The song probably contributed as much as anything to the Vietnam vet-bashing and abuse the survivors endured when they got home. B S-M's moral thinking in the lyric is shallow and just as naive as the idealism of some of the young men who *thought* they want to Vietnam to 'fight for democracy and their country.' She really re-victimized the victims. |
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07 May 07 - 05:35 PM (#2045499) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,Tunesmith But Greg, America's involvement in Vietnam was wrong! And, the soldiers - as naive, as young, and as impressionable as they were - were wrong! It's amazing when an invading army become " the victims"! |
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07 May 07 - 06:01 PM (#2045534) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: dick greenhaus Check out Universal Pacifist in DigiTrad. As far as I know, there was no government action to stifle Ms. Ste. Marie nor was there any federal censorship of anybody's anti-war songs. Commercial radio didn't play much folk music on any case. |
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07 May 07 - 06:55 PM (#2045579) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,mg bad bad soldiers. mg |
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08 May 07 - 06:35 AM (#2045931) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: GUEST nato |
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08 May 07 - 07:43 AM (#2045973) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: bubblyrat I seem to have been mis-informed !! For years, I was under the impression that the South Vietnamese, fearful of being overrun by Chinese -armed and equipped North Vietnamese communists,( a bit like in Korea ) had approached the United States and ASKED for their HELP !! I didn"t realise that it was simply a case of the US mounting an all-out INVASION of Vietnam, presumably just for the hell of it.Thankyou for pointing out THE TRUTH , "Tunesmith " ------Now we all know the REAL story !!! |
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08 May 07 - 10:51 AM (#2046147) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: Greg B "But Greg, America's involvement in Vietnam was wrong! And, the soldiers - as naive, as young, and as impressionable as they were - were wrong! It's amazing when an invading army become " the victims"! According to the dominant moral and legal thinking of the time, those that obeyed the draft and went to war were not "wrong." They obeyed the law. As well as conforming to the ideal of their own families (don't forget--- many of their fathers were WW2 vets, others Korea vets). They didn't deserve the "trip" that Buffy Ste. Marie decided to lay on them "He's the universal soldier and he really is to blame..." Young men aren't responsible for the decision to make war, or to send them to war. Old men (and women) in the halls of power are, people that never have to get their hands dirty and bloody. And young men returning from war, after horrible experiences there, certainly don't deserve to be assaulted, spit on, or to be called 'baby killers.' The "Universal Soldier" lyric was part and parcel of the thinking that said that they did deserve such mistreatment. And if you want to talk about "wrong" that pretty much sums it up. |
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08 May 07 - 12:03 PM (#2046196) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: Black Diamond The French satirical magazine, think adult 'Private Eye', described the French armed Forces as 'Professional Assassins". A very annoyed defence department took them to court, only to lose. Maybe someone can convince me that training anyone to kill is a good thing. If so, go ahead. As for the reason behind the Vietnam war, check back to the South Vietnam refusal to hold a previously agreed all Vietnam vote. As for "the trip", couldn't the conscripted have followed Muhammad Ali's lead? Known as old git on the saxophone webs. |
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08 May 07 - 12:13 PM (#2046209) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,Tunesmith Greg B: Of course, I feel for those young men that went to Vietnam. At 18, I've had "done my duty" and fought for my country. At 21, I wouldn't have. I would have questioned the morality of it all, and wouldn't have gone along with the "my country right or wrong" mentality. Buffy is correct. It is the foot soldiers that follow orders blindly and do the killing. And without them, all this killing can't go on. |
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08 May 07 - 01:18 PM (#2046255) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,mg Of course it can go on. There is just no one to resist it. mg |
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08 May 07 - 02:19 PM (#2046296) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: Greg B "It is the foot soldiers that follow orders blindly and do the killing. And without them, all this killing can't go on." Tunesmith, have you ever actually spoken to a combat veteran, or more to the point, listened to one? From the above quote, it would appear not. |
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08 May 07 - 02:47 PM (#2046320) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: Mrrzy I would have supported the Vietnam troops if I'd been around that war. I do not support the troops in our current conflict because they volunteered, and I think they were wrong to do so. But it's not as if they were drafted. Also, the abuse theoretically heaped upon returning Viet Nam vets is being debunked by current media. Apparently there was a lot less of it than people think. Did any of you abuse a returning vet? Were any of you personally abused upon your return? I would be interested in anecdotes, even if the plural of anecdote is not data, as I read somewhere recently. |
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08 May 07 - 02:52 PM (#2046324) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,mg This is revisionist history. I can absolutely state that the treatment of Vietnam veterans was horrible. Please do not apologize for the abusers. Very few people have come forward and said they abused them/us but some have and I really appreciate them. It was ongoing, constant, pervasive and evil. mg |
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08 May 07 - 03:05 PM (#2046340) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: Greg B Upon returning home from Vietnam, a well-known New England folk-singer was very badly heckled at a coffee house, when trying to resume performing. I have that from someone who was there. How much abuse is too much? Mrrzy, you say you 'don't support the troops in our current conflict because they volunteered.' What about the ones who were in the military prior to the 'current conflict?' You see, you don't get to say, 'Well, gee, Sarge, I don't think this war is for me, you see I disagree with the policy.' If you do that, you go to jail; you can't support your family. AND you let down the people who have stood beside you, perhaps saved your life. What about the ones who were out of active duty, but got called back from the 'inactive reserves' in the de facto draft? Perhaps in some fuzzy-wuzzy, Pollyanna world, it's possible to train and run a military that way. But not in any that exists. Recall, also, that a lot of people who are now following the trend and cluck-clucking at the war were (at least in the US) all for going after the tyrant and his WMDs. Again, you don't get to say to your commander-in-chief 'you deceived us, I quit.' No, people who point at soldiers and try and pin responsibility for wars on them suffer from a simplistic and under-developed morality. It's a sort of 'moral fundamentalism' which fails to take in the account of how society really works. |
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08 May 07 - 03:13 PM (#2046347) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,mg The desire to abuse is still there. It will go underground when popular opinion is to not abuse veterans or troops, but it is there, just waiting to pop out. mg |
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08 May 07 - 03:18 PM (#2046357) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: artbrooks Mrrzy, In February, 1972 I had just returned from Vietnam and gotten out of the army. I was waiting for a plane home at the Seattle airport, in uniform. I noticed a well-dressed women not far from where I was sitting whispering in her daughter's ear. The little girl, aged about seven, then came over to me and said, "how many babies like me did you kill?" Is that sufficiently anecdotal? |
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08 May 07 - 05:57 PM (#2046469) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: Rog Peek GregB I agree with you that when you join the military, you can't really complain if they send you to war. However, in life things are rarely that clear cut. To quote another well known topical singer from the 60/70's "Is there anybody here who thinks that following the orders takes away the blame?". Many people in the UK who supported the Iraq war, did so on the grounds that Sadam had WMD which could be used to attack us in 45 minutes. This of course turned out to be a lie. |
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08 May 07 - 06:08 PM (#2046475) Subject: RE: Origins: Universal Soldier From: Greg B "However, in life things are rarely that clear cut." Any military depends upon clear-cut adherence to the directives of superiors. Orders are not suggestions nor an invitation to debate. Such is accepted upon enlistment and indoctrinated during training. Armed conflict would, in fact, be more dangerous both to soldiers and civilians were this not the paradigm. You may not like that fact of life dating from the dawn of history. You may wish it is some other way. It is, however, how it is. |