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Three greatest Scottish cultural figures

24 Jul 07 - 03:13 PM (#2110288)
Subject: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip

Three greatest Scottish cultural figures of the 20th century:

Hugh MacDiarmid, Ewan MacColl, Hamish Henderson... and Sean Connery.

24 Jul 07 - 03:14 PM (#2110289)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L

Your point is? oh and learn to count.

24 Jul 07 - 03:19 PM (#2110292)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: gnu

I'll vote for Megan, Giok and Megan.

24 Jul 07 - 03:19 PM (#2110293)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

And of course, Ewan McColl [aka Jimmy miller] wasn't a Scot
Giok

24 Jul 07 - 03:21 PM (#2110295)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Barry Finn

& Robert Burns was an Aussie

Barry

24 Jul 07 - 03:21 PM (#2110296)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: gnu

Sounds a bit Scot's name, though.

24 Jul 07 - 03:27 PM (#2110298)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip

My point is to elicit people's opinion.

24 Jul 07 - 03:28 PM (#2110300)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip

Both MacColl's parents were Scottish. If he had been born in China would that have made him Chinese?

24 Jul 07 - 03:30 PM (#2110301)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip

I can count. I chose to make an apparently ill judged attempt at jocularity (sic).

24 Jul 07 - 03:30 PM (#2110302)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

Yes

24 Jul 07 - 03:34 PM (#2110304)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip

You lie, you lie, so loud I hear you lie.

24 Jul 07 - 03:34 PM (#2110305)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

My son was born in England of Scots parents, he's still English by birth, and British by nationality.
Hugh McDairmid was another one masquerading under an assumed name too BTW.
G.

24 Jul 07 - 03:42 PM (#2110310)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: greg stephens

Sean Connery, Jimmy Shand, and that Dundee Beano and Dandy bloke.

24 Jul 07 - 03:47 PM (#2110317)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,meself

Was Scrooge McDuck Scottish?

24 Jul 07 - 03:48 PM (#2110318)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

As Scottish as Tony Blair

24 Jul 07 - 03:53 PM (#2110325)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Tootler

And I was born in Aberdeen of an English Father and a Scots Mother, so what does that make me - apart from a mongrel that is :-)

I am equally proud of my English and Scots Heritage.

Ewan MacColl or Jimmy Miller if you prefer, obviously discovered his Scots heritage and took pride in it. Nothing wrong with that. This seems to me yet another unjustified swipe at MacColl rather than celebrating his not unsubstantial achievements.

24 Jul 07 - 03:57 PM (#2110329)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip

My wife is Scottish, I'm English, our children were born in England. Try telling her her children aren't half Scottish, and you won't get far, Giok!

Christopher Murray Grieve, James Henry Miller. Both good Scots names, but not as euphonious or distinctive (or as arty farty either, perhaps) as the ones they chose to work under. Where is the masquerade? That word, to me at least, implies deception. A lot of artists choose different names to work under. (Did Richard Starkey masquerade, for one? Or Robert Sutherland for another?) Were MacDiarmid's literary achievement less than his son's (also Christopher Grieve) because the latter worked under his own name?

24 Jul 07 - 03:57 PM (#2110330)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Long Firm Freddie

Andy Stewart, Chic Murray and Jimmy Krankie

LFF

24 Jul 07 - 03:58 PM (#2110331)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

No Tootler, not one word was said against his achievements which I too admire, I even named my aforementioned son after him. Please don't assume that just because I mention the fact about his name change that I am agin the man's works.
G.

24 Jul 07 - 04:05 PM (#2110337)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip

So far, Sean Connery is winning, with two votes, although maybe mine doesn't count as I named four. So it's a draw as half-time approaches, unless we go to the video referee... Who is an Irishman by the name of Viddy O'Referee.

24 Jul 07 - 04:08 PM (#2110342)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

Phillip you are confusing birth nationality with cultural identity. My son lives and works in the USA, and my grandson was born there, so he is an American, and entitled to a US passport too I believe.
G.

24 Jul 07 - 04:14 PM (#2110351)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip

No, I'm not confused at all. This thread was meant to be about culture, not passports. MacColl was a Scot. There is no English passport, and (I believe) no English nationality in law. Being born here did not therefore make him English. American law is irrelevant to this idea.

24 Jul 07 - 04:16 PM (#2110353)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

He wasn't born in Scotland, ergo he is NOT a Scot

24 Jul 07 - 04:19 PM (#2110356)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip

OK, you've convinced me with those capital letters. If the level of your argumentation is so strong I may as well give up. (It was Ringo and Robert Garioch, by the way, and the answer you didn't supply was no, Christopher Grieve is not a greater writer than his father.)

24 Jul 07 - 05:25 PM (#2110398)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L

They fade into insignificance when viewed against George Makay Brown,J. Storer Clouston and Robert Rendall.

24 Jul 07 - 05:34 PM (#2110411)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

Take your pick
G.

24 Jul 07 - 05:41 PM (#2110419)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Seán Báite

Where the f@@k is James Kelman in that lot, Giok ?? ...
big shaggin oversight...
Or did he simply chin the photographer before the flash went off ??

24 Jul 07 - 05:48 PM (#2110424)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

Yes it is an eclectic collection, no Lewis Grassick Gibbon either I notice. Another fine writer.
G.

24 Jul 07 - 06:27 PM (#2110456)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST

No RLS there either, maybe this is why..."This site features a selection of leading Scottish writers, photographed in a 30-year period by Edinburgh publisher and photographer Gordon Wright."

24 Jul 07 - 06:28 PM (#2110457)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Azizi

I'm ashamed to admit that the only Scottish cultural figure who has been mentioned in this thread thus far and who is familiar to me is Sean Connery and Robert Burns {notice that I wtote Sean Connery's name first}.

I opened this thread to learn more about Scottish culture and I ntend to look up the names of those other persons who have been mentioned.

But if you're being facetious, how about this immortal Scottish hero ?

24 Jul 07 - 06:40 PM (#2110467)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Sorcha

With all that to choose from gnu picks Giok and Megan....WOT????

24 Jul 07 - 06:51 PM (#2110472)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L

Gnu is a gentleman who is nice to those he thinks of as friends. Considering his genepool is French Irish Canadian he did well to know any Scots.

24 Jul 07 - 07:00 PM (#2110479)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Francy

Dick Gaughan

24 Jul 07 - 07:33 PM (#2110489)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: katlaughing

Jean Redpath

24 Jul 07 - 07:45 PM (#2110495)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Big Al Whittle

Ian Rankin, Bert Jansch, Glen Livet and Dougie Maclean, and theres hundred of the buggers.... Alex Harvey, Robin Williamson, Alexander Trocchi

anyway theres more than three

24 Jul 07 - 08:05 PM (#2110514)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: katlaughing

Alba...this life AND she WAS the definitive Scottish heroine in a past life in the 20th century! Think about it! Get a grip, Giok!**bg**

24 Jul 07 - 08:13 PM (#2110522)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Don Firth

As I was reading down this thread, a name popped into mind that I was going to post. Kat beat me to it. Jean Redpath.

Don Firth

24 Jul 07 - 10:19 PM (#2110589)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Gurney

Get a grip! Billy Connolly of course.

'Scottish' is a real can of worms.
Race? No Anglo-Saxon, Pict, Irish, or other migrant allowed? That's half of them out.
Or mixed bloods? I went to school with a Glaswegian of half Negro descent. Is he less Scottish than, say, Ewan McColl? Or more?
Upbringing? That makes most sense to me.
Personal inclination? The world is full of wannabees.

By some (oriental) standards, I am a Scotsman, since I was conceived near Loch Lomond, but I'm not petitioning for consideration. Heh heh.

25 Jul 07 - 02:31 AM (#2110660)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll

I seem to remember Idi Amin was a Scot!
Jim Carroll

25 Jul 07 - 04:45 AM (#2110701)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald

Among MacColl's 'not substantial achievements' was a talent for writing songs about England and English topics. (Dirty Old Town, I'm a Rambler, Shoals of Herring, Sweet Thames, Cannily, Cannily.......)I can't think of any songs written by MacColl that suggest 'Scottishness' but I'd be happy to be proved wrong!

Phillip - there's no 'Scottish' passport either.

25 Jul 07 - 04:52 AM (#2110706)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L

Oh yes there is Terry;) we sent my nieces English boyfriend one after he had misplaced his british oneLOL

25 Jul 07 - 05:14 AM (#2110715)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: IanC

Back to the thread ... I think Burke and Hare must be two of them. Not sure about the other one, though.

;-)

25 Jul 07 - 05:21 AM (#2110718)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

Baillie Nicol Jarvie?
G.

25 Jul 07 - 05:22 AM (#2110719)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Dave Hanson

Guest Terry McDonald, have a listen to ' The Fishgutters Song ' from Singing The Fishing, it's definately totally SCOTTISH.

eric

25 Jul 07 - 06:18 AM (#2110732)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald

Thanks Eric - I suspected someone would know of ones that I don't!

Megan L - would this be similar to the 'Welsh Passports' that you could buy in touristy shops when I lived in Gwent?

25 Jul 07 - 06:26 AM (#2110733)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: andymac

Well, speaking as a Scot (albeit currently working in Norway) I have no concerns with Hamish Henderson or Ewan McColl being cited as major Scots cultural icons of the 20th Century. Nor would I necessarily quibble with Hugh MacDiarmid's inclusion either.
But there are so many to choose from: Robin Jenkins, Ken Currie, Neil Gunn, Sorley MacLean and Martyn Bennett to name just a few that have popped into my head. We're fortunate to have had such riches to choose from.

25 Jul 07 - 08:07 AM (#2110782)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Silver Slug

Harry Lauder, Frankie Miller & Alex Harvey. Hadrian had the right idea - keep the buggers out!

25 Jul 07 - 08:18 AM (#2110788)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

The English still got in though didn't they?
G ¦¬]

25 Jul 07 - 08:21 AM (#2110792)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Davie_

Rab Noakes,Music. Sean Connery for film & Burns for lots and lots

25 Jul 07 - 09:15 AM (#2110835)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Big Al Whittle

Lonnie Donnegan

25 Jul 07 - 09:21 AM (#2110840)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

The Proclaimers

25 Jul 07 - 09:28 AM (#2110848)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,PMB

More than 50 posts, and no one mentioned the three witches? Or Macbeth (he and/or she) for that matter, the third being Don Sinane? Or William McGonagle? Or Robin Hall and Jimmy McGregor? Scott Swhaheyfor, Wally Spledd? Robert the Bruce (and Roberta the Sheila)? Or Alex Ferguson? James Clark Maxwell? Oor ain dear feelosofer David Hume?

25 Jul 07 - 09:36 AM (#2110859)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

John Muir

25 Jul 07 - 09:54 AM (#2110875)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: redsnapper

David Hume, Adam Smith, Sir Walter Scott, David Hume, Robert Louis Stevenson, Robert Burns, Robert Tannahill, James Boswell, Bill Shankly, John Buchan, Evelyn Glennie, Neil Gow

...amongst many hundreds of others. I can't choose the three greatest. And this is without even touching the great Scots in the fields of science, medicine and engineering.

RS

25 Jul 07 - 09:56 AM (#2110877)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Effsee

Jock Stein!

25 Jul 07 - 10:02 AM (#2110885)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

Who?

25 Jul 07 - 10:26 AM (#2110908)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Effsee

Aye right, Giok.

25 Jul 07 - 10:28 AM (#2110910)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

¦¬]

25 Jul 07 - 10:39 AM (#2110922)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Greg B

What about Mel Gibson? :-)

25 Jul 07 - 10:44 AM (#2110928)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: redsnapper

Indeed Greg... he did defeat the English at Bannockburn after all... (;>)

25 Jul 07 - 10:44 AM (#2110929)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

What about the short arsed Australian hypocrite?

25 Jul 07 - 10:44 AM (#2110930)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: katlaughing

Way back up there it did mention of the 20th century otherwise RLS would've been one of the first I'd posted.

25 Jul 07 - 10:45 AM (#2110933)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: gnu

What about that there fellah with the blue face? Um... Mel sommat?

25 Jul 07 - 10:49 AM (#2110937)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

Papa Smurf gnu.?

25 Jul 07 - 10:50 AM (#2110938)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Emma B

any one mentioned Charles Rennie Mackintosh yet?

25 Jul 07 - 10:53 AM (#2110942)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Mr Happy

Alastair Sim, Fyfe Robertson, Rory Bremner

25 Jul 07 - 10:56 AM (#2110947)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

Tony Blair

25 Jul 07 - 11:01 AM (#2110952)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Emma B

Giok!!!!

and Ian Rankin gets my vote

25 Jul 07 - 12:57 PM (#2111022)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Puck

I think special consideration should be given to Rab C Nesbitt

Pee

25 Jul 07 - 01:07 PM (#2111032)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures,
From: GUEST

Och jings crivens help ma boab, ah'm ferr keichin' masel wi pleesure, at bein' nummert alang wi they Proclaimers so ah am. People says that listenin' tae them is jist like listenin' tae me, an' they canny unnerstaun a word they say either.
Ah'm no sayin' that ah'm wan o' the greatest Scots o' a' times like, but ah'm the greatest Glaswegian since Chic Murray [may he rest in peace]
Ta fur that pal, an' if ye's want tae come roond fur a mealie pudden and a deep fried Mars bar, ah'm sure Mary doll will spend some o' ma bru money doon the chipper, an' mebbes we kin hae a wee drappie o' Buckie tae wash it doon wi tae.
Ta ta the noo.

Yer pal Rab C.

25 Jul 07 - 01:18 PM (#2111050)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Chris Murray

The Krankies

25 Jul 07 - 01:58 PM (#2111072)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST

Ewan MacColl was born James (Jimmie) Henry Miller in Salford, Lancashire in England, to Scottish parents, William and Betsy Miller


Gibson is a Scottish name
and he beat the English at Stirling

and what about Oor Wullie Scotland's favourite son? :-)

25 Jul 07 - 01:59 PM (#2111074)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,McTavish

Macdonalds burgers, kilts & the British Government.

Q. Who invented copper wire?

A. Two jocks arguing over a ha'penny.

25 Jul 07 - 02:28 PM (#2111093)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll

Belated reply to Terry McDonald;
MacColl was born and brought up in Salford, which makes it fairly logical that he sould write about what he knows best.
Having said which, a number of the Travellers songs were based on his interviews of Scots Travellers, and one of his best songs was, in my opinion, 'The Tenant Farmer' which was entirely Scots in subject and feeling.
Jim Carroll
PS He also did more than any singer I know to popularise the Scots ballads, putting 127 of them back into the repertoire.

25 Jul 07 - 06:43 PM (#2111319)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: maeve

For personal impact:

Lizzie Higgins, Jeannie Robertson, Sheila Stewart, Jack Ramsay of Pittenweem and daughter Pat, Archie, Ray, & Cilla Fisher, Ella & Eddie Macgeachy and son Kirk, Flora MacNeil, Dave Goulder, Lily & Charlie of Rosehall, Tony Cuffe, Morag on Skye, John Renbourn, Norman Kennedy, the members of Stravaig...

Just a few of my favorite Scots musicians and friends for the nomination. I refuse to limit it to three! ;-]

maeve

25 Jul 07 - 07:21 PM (#2111343)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: katlaughing

Thanks to Mickey in another thread, I am reminded of Craig Ferguson!

25 Jul 07 - 07:25 PM (#2111347)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald

Jim Carroll - no argument about that, especially about the ballads! It just seems to me that some people choose to identify with their parents' nationality rather than the one they've been born into and grown up with. My father was a sixth generation Newfoundlander but because he settled in England, married here and my brother and I were born here, we simply don't feel as if we're Newfoundlanders, let alone Canadian. Been there five times, but still feel totally English. MacColl's best known work, though, still seems to be his 'English' material which, as you say, is probably to be expected. By the way, did he ever live in Scotland?

25 Jul 07 - 07:53 PM (#2111360)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Cllr

Earlier somone pointed out in an earlier post that Gibson is a scottish name (it is in origin)My last name is Gibson which is a sept of the Clan Buchanan, of lot of the english Gibson family followed the fishing down the east coast of england, my grandparents were scottish i still have cousins who run a hotel in Inverness

I am proud of my scottish heritage, interestingly enough asian and black ethnic minorities who identify with the culture and have lived in scotland for a couple of generations are known as new scots (its a non perjorative title)
its difficult to define a culture as one thing becuase a culture is made up of diifferent strands and so means different things to different people.
however i would make one observation that while many people claim with pride their scottish ancestry and how they are half scottish I have never heard of a scottish person proudly proclaiming to be half english.
cllr

25 Jul 07 - 08:22 PM (#2111381)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Teribus

Right, the thread is about the three greatest Scottish cultural figures:

Without doubt the greatest is Robert Burns - a giant

Second is Sir Walter Scot

Problem comes with the third:

James Hogg - "The Ettrick Shepard"

Roy Williamsom and/or Ronnie Brown

But - Please - Please - Shir Shean Fuckin' Connery - Hells teeth what the fuck has he ever had to do with Scottish culture? Absolutely sweet damn all - sulked for years for a knighthood from a country he purportedly wishes to distance himself from. Lives in tax exile abroad while he spouts about things that will result in things that he, or any of his family, will never have to live under - the guy, as a Scot, is a complete and utter tosser. Get real.

25 Jul 07 - 09:03 PM (#2111407)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,meself

Gotta admit - he was one helluva James Bond, though!

25 Jul 07 - 09:36 PM (#2111431)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Effsee

Maeve, much as I admire his songs, dykes, and singing...Dave Goulder? Scots? Puhhhleeese! Even he would laugh at that.

25 Jul 07 - 09:43 PM (#2111434)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Big Al Whittle

I thought this was about recent people.

If it wasn't, I'd like to nominate Robert Louis Stevenson.

25 Jul 07 - 09:50 PM (#2111437)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: maeve

Effsee- Fair enough, Dave would indeed laugh at the thought.

However, his life in Scotland and his writing and singing about the land, his deep understanding of the way a drystone wall must work with the landscape and the physics of that landscape, and his generosity of spirit (not to mention of his enjoyment of the "water of life") have become firmly entrenched in my experience of all that I love about the places and people of Scotland.

I've never minded giving my friends a reason to laugh, anyroad!

maeve ;)

26 Jul 07 - 03:10 AM (#2111535)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST

Terry,
No, MacColl never lived in Scotland, he was born three months after his parents moved to Salford. Both his parents (mother from Perthshire, father from Falkirk) were singers and it was this that influenced his early interest in singing.
(Quote from D G Bridson's book on the BBC 'Prospero and Ariel):
"MacColl had been out busking for pennies by the Manchester theatres and cinemas. The songs he sang were unusual, Scots songs, Gaelic songs he had learned from his mother, border ballads and folk songs......"
That was in 1931.
MacColl's influences were Scots, and looking down the list of his songs, both self-composed and researched from the tradition, I find it hard to name any revival singer who has done more to introduce audiences to the Scottish repertoire in its entirety.
Jim Carroll

26 Jul 07 - 03:35 AM (#2111540)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald

Fair enough, Jim. He was of my earliest influences - I still have my Shuttle and Cage, and Come all You Bold Sportsman LPs, plus some of the Ballad ones. I just don't see him as a Scot in the way that most of those put forward in this thread are. But if others do, especially Scots, then so be it.

26 Jul 07 - 05:53 AM (#2111600)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Folk Form # 1

Dick Gaughan, Iain Banks and my dad.

By the way, Brendan Behan said, "If you're born in England and grow up in England, you're English." -Borstal Boy. So MacColl is English ...not that it really matters. He would be a great figure in our music whatever his ethnicity.

26 Jul 07 - 06:46 AM (#2111616)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: goatfell

The Corries, Alex Salmond and George Galloway

the last two are great because they are not afraid to speak their minds, and stop picking on Philip, the poor guy.

Tom

26 Jul 07 - 06:53 AM (#2111622)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: greg stephens

Well, Brendan Behan may have said that, but the Duke of Wellington said that being born in a kennel doesn't prove you are a dog. I reckon Ewan McColl was Scottish, just as as his fellow Mancunian, Lloyd George, was Welsh.

26 Jul 07 - 07:02 AM (#2111629)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald

Absolutely, Penguin Egg. Greg - I reckon it's the 'where you were brought up' bit that's important, but everyone will believe what they want to.

26 Jul 07 - 07:31 AM (#2111642)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

Well Tom I never thought I'd hear the word culture coupled with the name of that wee publicity seeking nyaff George Galloway!
G

26 Jul 07 - 07:34 AM (#2111644)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: greg stephens

Actually, McColl was English and Scottish. perfectly possible to be both.

26 Jul 07 - 07:41 AM (#2111648)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Ariel

If it's cultural icons we're after, my vote is definitely for Rab C Nesbitt, wee Jimmie Krankie and Ronald McDonald.

26 Jul 07 - 07:56 AM (#2111653)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Dave the Gnome

Damn! Ariel beat me to it! Well, with the first two anyway. Everyone knows that Ronald McDonald isn't realy Scottish - unless you mean the Lord in Lizie Linsey.

My third vote would have gone to Taggart. No-one can say 'There's bin a murrrrder' they way he does:-)

Cheers

Dave

26 Jul 07 - 08:59 AM (#2111686)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Fudged

My first post on Mudcat! (so be gentle with me)
Too many to choose from 'cos I'd want Hamish Henderson, Sorley MacLean, Norman McCaig and countless others in there.
So my votes go to...
Martyn Bennet, Martyn Bennett's pipes, Martyn Bennett's fiddle

xx

26 Jul 07 - 09:05 AM (#2111691)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: goatfell

I just Like George Galloway because he is not afriad to tell the truth and there are quiate a number of people don't like hearing the truth.

26 Jul 07 - 09:25 AM (#2111715)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

Suspended from the House of Commons for 18 days for lying. George only deals in the truth when it suits him. I'm sorrry Tom but as a Scot, I'm ashamed of him and his posturing.
Giok

26 Jul 07 - 09:29 AM (#2111722)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: goatfell

that's all right I just like him and you don't anyway let's agree to disagree. ok I agree he can be an arsehole but so can we all sometimes

Here's a thiEwan MacColl
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Ewan MacColl (25 January 1915 - 22 October 1989) was a British folk singer, songwriter, socialist, actor, poet, playwright, and record producer. He was the father of Kirsty MacColl.

[edit] Early history
MacColl was born James (Jimmie) Henry Miller in Salford, Lancashire in England, to Scottish parents, William and Betsy Miller. He left school in 1929, joined the Young Communist League and the socialist amateur theatre troupe, the Clarion Players. He began his career as a writer helping produce, and contributing humorous verse and skits to some of the Communist Party's factory papers. He was an activist in the unemployed workers campaigns and the mass trespasses of the early 1930s. One of his best-known songs, "The Manchester Rambler", was written after the pivotal mass trespass of Kinder Scout. He was responsible for publicity in the planning of the trespass.

In 1932 the British intelligence service, MI5, opened a file on MacColl, after the Chief Constable of Salford told them that the singer was a Communist Party member. For a time the Special Branch kept a watch on the Manchester home that he shared with his wife Joan Littlewood. MI5 caused some of MacColl's songs to be banned from the BBC, and blocked the employment of Joan Littlewood as a BBC children's programme presenter.

MacColl enlisted in the Army in July 1940, but deserted in December. Why he did so, and why he was not prosecuted when he re-surfaced after the war, remain a mystery.


[edit] Acting career
In 1931, with other unemployed members of the Clarion Players he formed an agit-prop group, the Red Megaphones. In 1934 they changed the name to Theatre of Action and not long after were introduced to a young actress recently moved up from London. This was Joan Littlewood who became Miller's wife and work partner.

In 1936, after a failed attempt to relocate to London, the couple returned to Manchester, and formed Theatre Union. In 1940 a performance of The Last Edition - a 'living newspaper' - was halted by the police and Miller and Littlewood were bound over for two years for 'breach of the peace'. The necessities of wartime brought an end to Theatre Union.

In 1946 members of Theatre Union and others formed Theatre Workshop and spent the next few years touring, mostly in the north of England. Jimmie Miller had by then changed his name to Ewan MacColl. In Theatre Union roles had been shared but now, in Theatre Workshop, they were more formalised. Littlewood was the sole producer and MacColl the dramaturge, art director and resident dramatist.

The techniques that had been developed in Theatre Union now were refined, producing the distinctive form of theatre which was the hallmark of Joan Littlewood's Theatre Workshop as the troupe was later known. They were an impoverished travelling troupe, but were making a name for themselves.


[edit] Music
In this period MacColl's enthusiasm for folk music grew. In 1953 Theatre Workshop opted to settle in Stratford, London, and MacColl, who was opposed to the move, left and began to concentrate on the promotion and performance of folk music. His long involvement with Topic Records was first obvious in 1950 when he released a single "The Asphalter's Song" on the label.

As well as writing and performing, MacColl followed in the footsteps of his colleague Alan Lomax and collected traditional ballads. Over the years he recorded upwards of a hundred albums, many with English folk song collector and singer A.L. Lloyd. The two together released a series of eight records of the Child Ballads, many of which appeared on his other albums. MacColl also produced a number of LPs with Irish singer songwriter Dominic Behan.

In 1956, MacColl caused a scandal by leaving his then second wife, Jean Newlove, the mother of his children, Hamish and Kirsty, for Peggy Seeger, who was many years his junior. It was for her that he wrote the classic, "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face". The song was written at Seeger's request for a play she was in. He wrote it on the spot and taught it to her over the phone.[1] This song became a #1 hit for Roberta Flack in 1972; MacColl won the Grammy Award for Song of the Year for it, while Flack won the Record of the Year award for it.

His other best-known song is "Dirty Old Town", written about his home town of Salford in Lancashire. It was written to cover an awkward scene change in his play "Landscape with Chimneys" (1949), but with the growing popularity of folk music the song became a standard, part of many a singer's repertoire. Recordings include The Spinners (1964), The Dubliners (1968), Rod Stewart (1969), the Pogues (1985), Simple Minds (2003), Ted Leo and the Pharmacists (2003), and Frank Black (2006).

Among his other songs was The Ballad of Ho Chi Minh (1954), which is rather famous in Vietnam.


[edit] Radio
MacColl had been a radio actor since 1933. By the late thirties he was scripting as well. In 1957 producer Charles Parker asked MacColl to collaborate in the creation of a feature programme about the heroic death of train driver John Axon. Normal procedure would have been to use the recorded field interviews only as source for writing the script. MacColl produced a script that incorporated the actual voices and so created a new form that they called the radio ballad.

Between 1957 and 1964, eight of these were broadcast by the BBC, all created by the team of MacColl and Parker together with Peggy Seeger who handled musical direction. MacColl wrote the scripts and the songs, as well as, with the others, collecting the field recordings which were the heart of the productions.


[edit] Songwriting
Seeger and MacColl recorded several albums of searing political commentary songs. MacColl himself wrote over 300 songs, some of which have been recorded by artists (in addition to those mentioned above) such as Planxty, The Dubliners, Dick Gaughan, The Clancy Brothers, Elvis Presley, Weddings Parties Anything, and Johnny Cash. In 2001, The Essential Ewan MacColl Songbook was published, which includes the words and music to 200 of his songs.

There is a plaque dedicated to MacColl in Russell Square in London. The inscription includes: "Presented by his communist friends 25.1.1990 ... Folk Laureate - Singer - Dramatist - Marxist ... in recognition of strength and singleness of purpose of this fighter for Peace and Socialism". In 1991 he was awarded a posthumous honorary degree by the University of Salford.

His daughter from his second marriage, Kirsty MacColl, followed him into a musical career, albeit less traditionally. Kirsty MacColl was killed in an accident in Mexico in 2000.

26 Jul 07 - 09:34 AM (#2111732)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: goatfell

as a Scot, there is one thing I don't lke and that is his stand on the 'union' I want Scotland to be free and he doesn't however that is up to him.

Anyway what has this got to do with Three greatest Scottish cultural figures, George Galloway is an arsehole but as i said we are all arseholes sometimes. I just don't want to argue with you

26 Jul 07 - 09:48 AM (#2111746)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: greg stephens

Another McColl classic, unaccountably missing from the wikipedia article, is his timeless "Ballad of Jo Stalin".

26 Jul 07 - 10:07 AM (#2111756)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: RoyH (Burl)

I have met many Scotsmen over the years, great fellas all. None more so than Alex Campbell.

The funniest comedian in the world, ever, was a Scotsman - Chic Murray.

The funniest newspaper cartoon ever was Scottish - Loaby Dosser.

The most Spring-heeled Jack of a footballer I ever saw was a Scotsman - Dennis Law.

26 Jul 07 - 11:04 AM (#2111805)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: goatfell

And the most funny comedian is Gordon Brown jings Crivens help ma boab

26 Jul 07 - 11:10 AM (#2111808)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: greg stephens

Leaving aside judgements of "greatness" etc, the bloke I was very fond of, and was sorriest to miss, was guitarist Peerie Willie Johnston.
burl: thanks for remembering Alex Campbell, surprised nobody's mentioned him before.

26 Jul 07 - 01:47 PM (#2111952)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L

Maw Broon she did long suffering wife before marge simpson was even a storyboard.

Matt Maginn

and El Fideldo the only twa legged horse tae hiv her ain staue

26 Jul 07 - 05:16 PM (#2112098)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: gnu

Now, who could not love a fellah tha was a dog fancier.

26 Jul 07 - 05:18 PM (#2112101)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: gnu

Oh, I know he was born in Canada, but he was born to Scots immigrants... so, it's YOUR fault!

27 Jul 07 - 03:25 PM (#2112830)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Betsy

Dick Gaughan, Iain McGillivray and Rab C.Nesbitt

28 Jul 07 - 04:57 AM (#2113160)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie

Matt McGinn, Edwin Morgan, Eduardo Paolozzi.
One for luck, Jack Vettriano.

Giok

28 Jul 07 - 12:28 PM (#2113383)
Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Jim Lad

Oor Wullie, Daphne & Big Hen.