why there are so few Sharons in song

17 Aug 07 - 03:28 PM (#2128134)
Subject: why so few Sharons in song?
From: Jack Campin

I just came across this, from 1999:

--- quote ---
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/319/7225/1615

The much maligned "Sharon", "Tracey" and "Sandra", who have been the butt of so many Essex girl jokes, are finally vindicated in this week's Christmas issue of the BMJ as researchers find that the real culprits of easy virtue are "Kelly" and "Louise".

In an analysis of 16-24 year old females attending a genitourinary clinic in Southampton, Dr Elizabeth Foley and colleagues found that contrary to popular belief, Sharon and Tracey were not the most popular names of attendees. They actually found that of the 1462 women who attended the clinic the top ten names most frequently seen were:-

1. Sarah
2. Emma
3. Kelly
4. Louise
5. Claire
6. Lisa
7. Rachel
8. Clare
9. Michelle
10. Nicola

The authors are quick to point out that they compared these findings with data from the Office of Populations Censuses and Surveys and they found that most of the top 10 names for women attending the department were seen with the frequency expected by the incidence of the name in the population. Nevertheless, some names were more popular among the study group at the clinic than they were in the general population, including Kelly, Louise and Clare (with no "i").

The much maligned Sharon, Tracey and Sandra, however, were seen half as often as expected and the authors say that as we enter the new millennium these names should make way for the more popular "Hampshire Girls".
--- end quote ---

Now, it seemed to me that these frequencies ought to correlate with the frequency of occurence of names in song. But I can only think of songs or tunes featuring about half of those names, and none for a Kelly or Clare. And 200 years ago would the pox wards have been full of Janets and Nancys?

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17 Aug 07 - 03:45 PM (#2128148)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: ClaireBear

Oh dear. Should I change my name?

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17 Aug 07 - 04:01 PM (#2128158)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Joe Offer

Now, I have to apologize that I was unaware that Essex girls were the butt of humor, er, humour. According to Wikipedia, I gather that they're comparable to dumb blonde jokes.

Is "Nicola" a common name in the UK? It's Nicole in the US - are we THAT different? As for Sharon not being in song, I guess my opinion is that it's just not a musical, poetic name. I'd contend that the use of women's names in song has far more to do with the musicality of the song rather than the name-bearer's susceptibility to sexually transmitted diseases....

I have to say that this thread may not last long in the music section. It has to develop some legitimate music information if it is to continue living here at the top of the Forum Menu.

-Joe, fabled in many songs-

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17 Aug 07 - 04:06 PM (#2128162)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Leadbelly

At least, there is a Song for Sharon by Joni Mitchell.

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17 Aug 07 - 04:11 PM (#2128165)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: pdq

David Bromberg's "Sharon" evolved into one of the greatest pieces of 'rock theatre' ever.

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17 Aug 07 - 04:13 PM (#2128168)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: ClaireBear

Isn't there a really long anthem in the Sacred Harp called "Rose of Sharon"? I think it's like 12 pages long, and it mentions Sharon simply heaps of times.

(Oh, and Gilbert O'Sullivan wrote a song about Claire, by the way.)

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17 Aug 07 - 04:26 PM (#2128174)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: frogprince

It's a long, long way, from Claire to here...

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17 Aug 07 - 04:27 PM (#2128175)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Bernard

I met her on a Monday, and my heart stood still...
Sharon-ron-ron-ron, Sharon-ron-ron!

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17 Aug 07 - 04:33 PM (#2128178)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Leadbelly

For Claire:

By the way,again, there's a lovely song about a little girl who's angry with her teddy bear for jumping into hedgerows all the time!Taken from the Walking Oliver CD Paul Austin Kelly/Rap 'N Roll:

Ah, where's he gone now?
Oh, no! Not there!
He's jumped into the hedgerow!
Ooh, my Black Bear

How am I going to fetch him
Out of there?
It's as thorny as a cactus
Oh, my Black Bear

I'll tear my pretty trousers
My new pair
They'll be holy as a Swiss cheese
My Black Bear

I'll skin my lovely elbows
White and fair
A sight I'll be to see then
My Black Bear

I'll have a dozen burdocks
In my hair
Then no one will want to kiss me
My Black Bear

I'll prob'ly die an old maid
A lot you care
Well, I'll leave you in that hedgerow!
Oh, my Black Bear

Ah here, give us your paw then
Mmm, come to Claire!
Or else my bed is empty
Oh, my Black Bear

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17 Aug 07 - 04:38 PM (#2128186)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: ClaireBear

Ah, that's lovely! Thank you, Leadbelly -- I shall have to look that up.

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17 Aug 07 - 04:51 PM (#2128190)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Bee-dubya-ell

Ten most common female names in US:

1. Mary
2. Patricia
3. Linda
4. Barbara
5. Elizabeth
6. Jennifer
7. Maria
9. Susan
9. Margaret
10. Dorothy

From this source.

(I was shocked to find "Heather" was only number 53.)

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17 Aug 07 - 05:01 PM (#2128196)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: pdq

Allan Sherman struck a blow for equality with his song "My Zelda". Good show, Sherm'.

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17 Aug 07 - 05:14 PM (#2128205)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Leadbelly

That's the german top ten for 2004:
1. Marie
   2. Sophie
   3. Maria
   4. Anna, Anne
   5. Lea(honie)
   6. Lea(h)
   7. Laura
   8. Lena
   9. Katharina
10. Johanna

Mary, Marie, Maria seemed to be favourites in US and Germany.
Obviously no chance for Claire. I'm so sorry about this result because I do like your name.

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17 Aug 07 - 05:17 PM (#2128206)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: maeve

I don't give any value to the notion that people with certain names are more likely to suffer from any particular disease with any more frequency. Rubbish.

On the song side, There's the "My Friend Sharon" round by Jan Harmon.

maeve

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17 Aug 07 - 05:23 PM (#2128208)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Leadbelly

Meave, you are completely right. In so far, this thread is some kind of rubbish. But it's quite amusing, is'nt it? Let's go on.
And what's about Jack Campin? Is he still alive?

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17 Aug 07 - 05:41 PM (#2128216)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: GUEST,leeneia

Maybe there's no chance for Claire in Germany, but what about Clara?

I have friends with a little daughter named Clare. They love Ireland, have been there more than once, and deliberately named her after the Clare in Ireland.

As for why there are no Sharons in song, I think it's because few songs actually contain individual names. Not having them makes the song applicable to more people. After all, if you are a couple named Brad and Jennifer, you can't very well say that a song addressed to Mavis, say, is your song.

The last such song I can recall is Mandy by what's-his-name, although some here claim that Rod Stewart sang a song called "Maggie May." Doesn't sound likely.

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17 Aug 07 - 07:07 PM (#2128258)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: GUEST,Art Thieme

I have no idea why there are so few Sharons in songs. But I know that there is a Sharon in Connecticut!! It's the home of the Patons and Folk Legacy Records---(and William F. Buckley. ;-)


Art

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17 Aug 07 - 07:51 PM (#2128281)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: michaelr

Because the fat bastard doesn't DESERVE a song!

Oh, wait...

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17 Aug 07 - 09:44 PM (#2128321)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: freightdawg

I aint sharin' Sharon,
Wis out swearin
She's my very own
You better leave her alone
(you get your head stomped on)

I aint sharin' Sharon
in case your darin'
I'll tell you what you are
You'll be a walkin' scar
All the kings horses and all the kings men
will never put you back together again
I'll do you bodily harm
I'll break your back your nose your neck your tooth your toe and your arm

I aint sharin' Sharon
wis out swearin
She's my very own
You better leave her alone

No I aint sharin Sharon, with you, you, and that means you.
(Jim Stafford)

Freightdawg

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18 Aug 07 - 12:53 AM (#2128378)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: johnross

It's much more interesting to look at the way popularity of names changes over time. For lists of American baby names dating back over a hundred years, look at http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/index.html.

Or for a Java tool that displays the way different names become more or less popular in a graph, follow the link from http://www.babynamewizard.com/namevoyager/.

As for Sharon, she peaked in the 1940's (Rank:8), dropping every decade since (1950s: 14, 1960's: 23, 1970s: 63, 1980s: 169, 1990s: 331)

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18 Aug 07 - 01:32 AM (#2128384)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Liz the Squeak

My Sharon-a by The Knack...

Sharon hasn't really been accepted as a girls name for more than 100 years. It's mostly been confined to a place name (it means 'forest') or a plant name - Rose of Sharon.

Searching through parish records in Dorset, I didn't find a single Sharon until about 1900 and that was a boy, spelt with 2 r's.

LTS

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18 Aug 07 - 01:51 AM (#2128391)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: SharonA

Liz: It means "forest"??? I've never read that (and I've had reason to read quite a bit about the name over the years)! I've read that it means "plain" as a place name, and also that it means "princess". Where did you find the info on "forest"?


Freightdawg, that was so beautiful... *sniff* :,^)

There's another "I Ain't Sharin' Sharon" song, by Hank Williams Jr.

...and yet another "I Ain't Sharin' Sharon" performed by James Darren. I can't find the lyrics posted anywhere, but you can hear a clip at Yahoo Music and elsewhere.

We also have: "S.H.A.R.O.N." by Deacon Blue & Ricky Ross

"Sharon" by David Bromberg

"Rose of Sharon" by Xiu Xiu

"Rose of Sharon" by Kevin Clay

...and the hymn "Jesus, Rose of Sharon"

Then there's "Sherry Baby" by Frankie Valli, which is a bit of a stretch, but as a kid my family called me Sherry (and my older brothers used to sing that song at me to tease me!).

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18 Aug 07 - 02:16 AM (#2128394)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Liz the Squeak

It was from some 'meaning of names' site that now eludes me, which also gave Sherry as a derivitive.


LTS

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18 Aug 07 - 02:54 AM (#2128406)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: JennieG

Our folk club has theme nights and last year one of the themes was 'songs or poems that have people's names in them' - one could gain extra (imaginary) bonus points if the song had one's own name in it!

I found "When the sheep are in the fold Jennie dear", an old tearjerker from nigh on 100 years ago; "Poor Jenny" by the Everly Brothers (although I don't spell my name with a Y); and "Amazing Grace" - Grace is my middle name.

How many songs have your name in them?

Cheers
JennieG

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18 Aug 07 - 03:01 AM (#2128408)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: JennieG

I forgot "Jennifer juniper" - wasn't that in the 60s, by the Hollies or a similar group?

In the book "Freakonomics" there is a whole chapter devoted to how different socio-economic backgrounds are responsible for trends in names.

Cheers
JennieG

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18 Aug 07 - 03:24 AM (#2128415)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Mr Red

that list of names will change in years to come (pun not intended)

Fashions in peoples' names is a constantly moving feast.

Good job Jenny Taylor was not in the list

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18 Aug 07 - 03:39 AM (#2128419)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Mikefule

Tracy, Tracy, give me your answer do...
Let`s get racy in my Ford XR2.
It`s a car you won`t disparage,
I`ve just had it tuned at the garage
And you`ll cling to your seat as we burn up the street
In my turbo-charged XR2.

Kevin, Kevin, this is my answer true:
Pick me up at seven, and show me what it will do.
I`ll bring Wayne and Karen,
And Gavin and Darren and Sharon
And we`ll have fun as we`re doing the ton
In the back of your XR2.

Tracy, Tracy, you didn`t understand:
When I said "racy" it was not just a drive I`d planned.
I know a place where we can park
And at half past eight when it gets dark
I`ll give you a treat in the reclining seat
Of my turbo-charged XR2.

Kevin, Kevin, you mustn`t try it on
Or I`ll get Gavin to come round and thump you one
For he is my true lover
And when it comes to burning rubber
His car will beat yours down any street
It`s a Toyota MR2.

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18 Aug 07 - 03:52 AM (#2128421)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Azizi

The much maligned "Sharon", "Tracey" and "Sandra", who have been the butt of so many Essex girl jokes...

Well, this is another example of how UK culture is different than American culture. I never knew that these names were maligned. And I've never heard of "Essex girl jokes" before reading that phrase in that post.

I suppose it probably goes without saying that there are different naming traditions within the USA. A list of African American favorite names and commonly used names for females would be very different than the lists that have been shared thus far in this thread. And a lot of those names on those lists were/are hardly ever given to Black {African American} females. A list of favorite American male names would also be different than the names that African Americans give to males since the 1960s.{Though there is a bit more convergence between White and Black Americans with regard to male names}.

Fwiw, the names Sharon and Karen used to be popular names for Black twin girls in the 1950s. In my experience, the only rivals in popularly for twin names at that time were Brenda and Linda. In my experience and as a result of my informal research, I would say that since the late 1950s/mid 1960s, the female names I cited are seldom given to African American females, with the possible exception of the name "Linda".

I'm not sure what the most popular African American female twin names are nowadays. But I know that they are either rhyming names like "Kia" {also spelled Keeya, Keya, Kya} and "Breeya" {also spelled "Briya"}or they have the same first letter such Latosha and Latoya or the same ending sound such as Tiyanna and Breanna.

And whereas a name like Jennifer was popular among White and non-White Americans in the 1970s, you hardly ever see that name given to an African American girl in the early/almost mid 2000s.

I hasten to say that some of my best girl friends have what African Americans nowadays would consider to be old fashioned names like Sharon, Karen, Cynthia, Deborah, Delores, Barbara, and Brenda.

Heck, I used to have one of these names myself!

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18 Aug 07 - 04:12 AM (#2128424)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: SharonA

Azizi, reading your post about names for female African American twins made me think that, around here at least, African American females tend to have names that end in "-sha" (Aisha, Lanisha, Moesha, etc.). Then I started wondering if the "-sha" has any ties to the interpretation of the name Sharon as "princess." Know anything about that?

I've been Googling the meaning of "Sharon" and, for the most part so far, I'm coming up with "plain" or "fertile plain" or "fruitful" (referring to fertile, I guess), along with one or two "princess"es (and one "exotic princess"-- whee!). Everyone seems to agree that it has its origins in the Hebrew language. I found only one interpretation of "forest" and that was on Wikipedia, so the accuracy of that reference is in doubt! Even so, "forest" may be another translation of the fertility factor in the original word (i.e. lots of vegetation growing on the plain).

As for the Essex girl jokes, I too was unaware of that bit of European culture! No wonder I don't git no respect around here... ;^)

Sharon the Unstereotypical

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18 Aug 07 - 04:37 AM (#2128429)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Genie

From the musical "Finian's Rainbow," in which the female lead character is Sharon McLonergan, there's the song "When I'm Not Near The Girl I Love (I Love The Girl I'm Near," which contains the line (sung by the leprechaun Og):

"for Sharon I'm carin', but Susan I'm choosin' --
I'm faithful to who's 'un is near ... "

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18 Aug 07 - 04:41 AM (#2128431)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: GUEST,ifor

" I am the rose of Sharon and the lilies of the valley."

Song of Solomon
Solomon 2:1

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18 Aug 07 - 05:48 AM (#2128449)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: cptsnapper

Don't forget Sharon Fountain, the singer / songwriter from Barnsley.

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18 Aug 07 - 07:06 AM (#2128471)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Azizi

darn! I didn't mean for the italic feature to remain on.

Sorry about that.

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18 Aug 07 - 07:37 AM (#2128482)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: John J

cos they're all Nancies.

John

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18 Aug 07 - 07:42 AM (#2128483)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Liz the Squeak

Or Mollies.

LTS

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18 Aug 07 - 07:49 AM (#2128487)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Richard Bridge

Jennifer Juniper was Donovan

Rose of Sharon also features as a name in Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath"

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18 Aug 07 - 08:59 AM (#2128505)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Azizi

around here at least, African American females tend to have names that end in "-sha" (Aisha, Lanisha, Moesha, etc

SharonA, imo, there are certain sound preferences that groups of people have that greatly influence the type/s of musical voices that members in that group find attractive and find unattractive. For instance, one major type of singing voice that African Americans and Jamaicans {and perhaps other Afro-Caribbean people} like are gritty, gravelly, smokey voices. {But as a group, African Americans also like falsetto male voices}.

Just as groups of people have preferences for singing voices, I think that groups of people also have preferences for the sounds that make up certain personal names. A name's length {whether it is one syllable, or it is two syllables or three syllables or more are important factors which determine if a specific name will be considered attractive. Other considerations are whether the name has "unusual" [for that group]and therefore difficult to pronounce consonents clusters. In addition, cultural connotations associated with specific sounds help to determine if that sound is pleasing or displeasing to a particular group. For instance, imo, the letter "u" {pronunced "oo"} at the end of a name has the negative association sound of a cow "mooing" {few Americans want to name their daughter or son after a cow}. And the beginning letter "U" has even more negative associations for Americans as it is the beginning letter for the word "ugly". Given this theory, I figured that the Black doll which was heavily marketed in the 1970s and was given the Swahili female name Tamu {tah-MOO} which means "sweatness" wasn't going to sell-partly because of that name. I also guessed correctly that the name Tamu would rarely be selected by parents as their daughter's name. Other African/Arabic names which became known during that decade have become "standard" African American names. But not Tamu.

What I'm suggesting {and surely someone else has articulated this theory before ?} is that certain prefixes {beginning elements, and their sounds} and certain suffixes {ending elements, and their sounds}are more aesthetically pleasing to some groups of people than others. I don't know why this is, but preferences for the beginning and/or ending sounds of personal names/nicknames certainly appears to exist among specific groups of people. The group's preference for some of these preferred prefixes and suffixes may wax & wane or over time be rejected {as I think has happened with African Americans with regard to the "Th" beginning sound and the "ous","us" and "eos" ending sounds in male names such as Theodous, Theophilus, and Thaddeus. But sometimes, the preference for specific sounds of names stays very constant {examples anong African Americans are the "La" prefix, particularly in female names [I've read that some "La" names were collected among African Americans as early as the late 19th century. And "La" as a prefix is very common among African Amerian girls since the 1980s {Examples of La names-Latisha, Latosha, Latoya}. "Da" {pronounced DAY} is a prefix that is very popular among African American males since at least the 1980s. When combined with the commonly used suffix or middle syllable "aun", "on", and aun's variant "quan", you get male names such as "Daquan" {pronounced DAY quan} and Davonte {pronounced day-VON-tay. The standard nickname for both of these male names and a host of other male names that start with "Da" is "Day Day".

All of this to say, there appears to me to be little doubt that "sha" {"cha"} is one of the most consistently preferred prefixes {at least since the l950s and maybe earlier than that} for African American females {and to a somewhat lesser extent African American males. "Sha" {"Cha"} is pronounced "SHAH". I'm not sure why the sound of this prefix is so aesthetically pleasing to African Americans {and I'm curious if other people of African descent, for instance, Black Britons have the same sound preferences as African Americans}. I could speculate that that sound preference among African Americans came from that prefix's use in the Biblical name Sharon and/or from the Arabic names such as the female names Shadha - Aromatic; Shadiyah - Singer, story teller; and Shareefa - Noble that begin with "Sha" {since there is historical documentation that some Africans who were brought to the United States and enslaved were Arabic speaking Muslims.} The Arabic male name Sharif {Shareef} and its female variant Sharifa {Shareefah} are very similar spellings and meanings as the Persian word/last name Shah.
But that would be pure speculation.

However, it is interesting to see the similarities in spelling and meanings between certain Hebrew, Arabic, and Persian "sha" names.   Given the history of these people, I wouldn't at all be surprised if there was some connection between each of these names. But I don't know {though I think some researchers must know} which names came first-the Arabic, Hebrew, or Persian "Sha" royalty names.

**

Since the late 1960s, early 1970s "isha" has been a commonly used suffix in African American names. "Isha" is pronounced and also written as "eesha". A variant form of that suffix is "iesha" {pronounced EYE-eesha}. The suffix probably became familiar to African Americans through the Arabic female names Ayesha, Maisha, and the West African name Keisha {said to mean "favorite daughter"; however I think that this name is also related to the Hebrew female Kezia .

**

This is a long response to a short question so I'll stop right here.

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18 Aug 07 - 11:50 AM (#2128584)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Gorgeous Gary

In "Entering Marion", John Forster passes through Sharon as well (not to mention Beverly)

-- Gary

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18 Aug 07 - 12:09 PM (#2128596)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: GUEST

Here are the Bible verses that refer to Sharon. Many of them are beautiful to read, though it is startling to hear that Sharon had suburbs.
=====

Acts 9:35 All who lived at Lydda and in Sharon saw him, and they turned to the Lord.

1 Chronicles 5:16 They lived in Gilead in Bashan and in its towns, and in all the suburbs of Sharon, as far as their borders.

1 Chronicles 27:29: and over the herds that fed in Sharon was Shitrai the Sharonite

Song of Songs 2:1 I am a rose of Sharon, a lily of the valleys.


Isaiah 33:9 The land mourns and languishes. Lebanon is confounded and withers away. Sharon is like a desert, and Bashan and Carmel are stripped bare.

Isaiah 35:2 It will blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing. Lebanon's glory Lebanon will be given to it, the excellence of Carmel and Sharon. They will see Yahweh's glory, the excellence of our God.

Isaiah 65:10 Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for herds to lie down in

====
I think it interesting that "Sharon's" popularity peaked in wartime. I think these Bible images of a mysterious place with flocks, roses, lilies and yes, suburbs, appealed to people.

Most Sharons I have known have the middle name Rose.

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18 Aug 07 - 12:32 PM (#2128611)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: John Hardly

I'm sure someone knows the definitive answer to the original question, but so far they aren't, you know, sharon.

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18 Aug 07 - 02:21 PM (#2128696)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Becca72

I don't think I've ever heard a song with my name in it. Other than the one my sister made up when I was a kid in which she rhymed Becca with Pecka...apply the northern New England accent and you'll understand why I used to get upset :-)

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18 Aug 07 - 04:07 PM (#2128748)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Leadbelly

To Becca:
There's a Becca song on YouTube. Please have a look.

For promotional purposes you would have had a chance in the 60': Lovely Miss Becca is listening to Decca (a record company). Aarrrgh, rubbish.

But I suppose your real name is Rebecca, isn't it?

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18 Aug 07 - 08:28 PM (#2128879)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: dulcimer42

I'm a Sharon, and there just don't seem to be many of us in the younger generation. We were all over the place in the 50s. In my class of 24 in a little country school, there were 4 sharons and 2 karens. Today? Probably 0 at the entire local school, let alone in the songs being written.

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18 Aug 07 - 08:37 PM (#2128883)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: pdq

In kindergarten, we must have had a girl named Sharon Sharalike. Heard about her a lot but don't recall seeing her.

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18 Aug 07 - 09:05 PM (#2128901)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: JennieG

Jennifer Juniper was Donovan? well well.....it has been a long time after all.

I don't remember any Sharons in my generation at school in a NSW country town. We had a Karen, and she pronounced her name with a long a, I have never come across that before or since.

Many of the girls I went to school with were called Jennifer. Or Joan, Judith, Jean, J names were very popular in the late 40s-early 50s. Helen, Susan, Wendy, Pamela, Yvonne - names I remember from high school.

Cheers
JennieG

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19 Aug 07 - 03:22 AM (#2128990)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Genie

Gary, that "Entering Marion" song is hilarious!

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19 Aug 07 - 06:23 AM (#2129030)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Leadbelly

To JennieG:

I believe you think of "Jennifer Eccles" by the Hollies.

Manfred

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19 Aug 07 - 06:33 AM (#2129033)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Jack Campin

To document the stereotype a bit further I googled "Fat Slags" - I misremembered, they're Sandra and Tracy, not Sharon and Tracy. The list of click-throughs Google thinks you might be interested in is a bit surprising.

Meanwhile there is more on the stereotype at http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/s.htm

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19 Aug 07 - 06:56 PM (#2129363)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Rowan

G'day Azizi,
About your "the name Shazz, Shazzy, and Shazza, as nicknames for Sharon", I've heard the first and last of your three (never "Shazzy", though) in Oz-speak. Mostly as part of overemphasising Ozness by lampooning it and mostly in the last 30 years.

Cheers, Rowan

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19 Aug 07 - 08:20 PM (#2129398)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Azizi

Good evening, Rowan, :o)

I've never heard the nicknames Shazz, Shazzy, and Shazza" for the Sharon {or for any other female name, for that matter). So are you saying that those names are an Oz custom?

I wonder if any folks from the USA, Canada, or the UK have heard those nicknames?

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19 Aug 07 - 10:26 PM (#2129434)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Rowan

G'day again Azizi,
Although I can't pretend to be an ultimate authority on the matter, I suspect the two films concerning the Adventures of Barry McKenzie may be responsible for instigating the use of "Bazza" for "Barry". They were Oz films (and may well have initiated the use of the term "Oz" as a substitute for "Aussie") made in the early 70s and, were set (and filmed) in London. They mercilessly lampooned the interactions between Australians in Britain and their British hosts and became somewhat iconic. The satyrical (and satirical) "Private Eye" magazine was also instrumental in all this "taking the piss" out of all concerned as well.

The substitution of "Bazza" for "Barry" rapidly led to similar substitutions of "Gazza" for "Gary" and "Shazza" for "Sharon"; the almost universal Oz prediliction for shortening anything to one syllable inevitably led to Bazz, Gazz and Shazz entering popular use but, to my mind, there is almost always an element of lampoon lurking when they're used. Much like the original Bazza McKenzie efforts.

I hope this helps enlighten you,

Cheers, Rowan

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19 Aug 07 - 11:05 PM (#2129448)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Azizi

Thanks, Rowan.

I love learning things like that!

Of course, I have a special fondness for folks who have two "z"s in their name, though I can't imagine why.

;o)

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20 Aug 07 - 06:23 AM (#2129531)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Marje

Hey Jack (original post in this thread) - isn't this a bit sexist? I don't suppose the GU clinics are frequented only by women. How about the names of males attending - does "Jack" appear in the top ten, I wonder?

I bet my name doesn't - most other Marjories seem to be over 80, and thus at a low risk of contracting a GU infection. On the other hand, I should think there are lots of us with Alzheimers :-(

Although this seems to come as a surprise some people, the names at any clinic (GU or otherwise) are never going to be a random cross-section of the population; they're bound to be skewed in certain ways, reflecting the genders, ages, socio-economic groupings and lifetyles of their patients.

Just as, if folk songs are to be relied on as evidence, most young men who went off to sea or to join the army were called William (or possibly Johnny), and most of their sweethearts Nancy or Betsy.(Well, someone had to try to keep this thread on topic!)

Marje

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20 Aug 07 - 09:07 AM (#2129601)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Nick

>>The much maligned Sharon, Tracey and Sandra, however, were seen half as often as expected and the authors say that as we enter the new millennium these names should make way for the more popular "Hampshire Girls".

Might it be that they weren't bright enough to realise that they should attend?

(What's the difference between an Essex girl and a shopping trolley? A shopping trolley has a mind of it's own)

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20 Aug 07 - 10:28 AM (#2129657)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: JennyO

In fact, almost any of those names in Oz that have an 'ar' or an 'er' in them often seem to be shortened to one of the Z forms. I've heard of all of these. There was a Gerry and a Gary in my family, and they were shortened to Gez and Gaz.

Gary - Gaz or Gazza
Barry - Baz or Bazza
Mary - Maz or Mazza
Gerry - Gez or Gezza
Karen - Kaz or Kazza
Carol - Caz or Cazza

As far as Sharon is concerned, I know it's not quite the same, but there was "My Sharona". Only an extra a :-)

My name, Jennifer or Jenny must be one of the most used names in songs actually. As well as the ones mentioned so far - Poor Jenny, Jennifer Juniper and Jennifer Eccles, there was one called "Jenny Jenny Jenny". by Little Richard. My first boyfriend used to sing it to me -

    Jenny, Jenny, Jenny
    Won't you come along with me
    Jenny, Jenny, Jenny
    Won't you come along with me
    You know that I love you
    We could live so happily

    Jenny, Jenny, Jenny
    spinnin' like a spinnin' top
    Jenny, Jenny, Jenny
    Spinnin' like you ain't gonna stop
    The greatest little momma
    You oughta see her reel and rock

    Jenny, Jenny, Jenny
    Won't you come along with me
    Jenny, Jenny, Jenny
    Won't you come along with me
    You know that I love you
    We could live so happily

    Jenny, Jenny, Jenny
    Girl I need you by my side
    Jenny, Jenny, Jenny
    You know I need you by my side
    You know I need you pretty baby
    Your ways I gotta really abide now

    Jenny, Jenny, Jenny
    Won't you come along with me
    Jenny, Jenny, Jenny
    Won't you come along with me
    You know that I love you
    We could live so happily

Then there's that "darlin' sportin' Jenny" in "Whiskey in the Jar".

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20 Aug 07 - 11:46 AM (#2129697)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: M.Ted

The response to the question should really be a crude, cheap joke of some sort, as in, "Why are there so few Sharons in song?" Because they're all out in the parking lot shagging the band" or some such thing--


Oddly, the Google Ad below is for'Live Wedding Music'--

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21 Aug 07 - 03:31 AM (#2130209)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Dave Hanson

I've lost the will to live.

eric

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21 Aug 07 - 07:34 AM (#2130310)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman

Obviously traditional song has missed out on lots of important opportunities. As a partial remedy:

Come riddle my riddle, dear Mother, he cried,
Come riddle it now as one,
Whether I should marry that Sharon girl
Or bring fair Jennifer home.

or

Twas in the merry month of May
When all green things were bloomin',
Young Jason on his death bed lay,
For love of Tracey Allen.

or the celebrated "Black Jack Brandon":

Come go with me, my pretty little Claire,
Come go with me, my honey,
Come go with me, my pretty little Claire,
And you never shall want for money,
You never shall want for money.

or ... but I forbear.

Bob

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22 Aug 07 - 09:20 AM (#2131043)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Snuffy

In the UK Sharon rhymes with 'barren' and 'baron', I don't think I've ever heard it pronounced 'share-en' as seems to be common in USA.

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22 Aug 07 - 09:25 AM (#2131047)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: SharonA

I'm in the Philadelphia PA suburbs, and I know a "Shaz". More accurately, I should say that I know a Sharon (also a resident of this area) who is called "Shaz" by one person. That person was raised in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, although both of his parents are from this area. I'm not sure where the guy picked up his knowledge of the existence of the nickname, though he is a Vietnam War veteran and may have been acquainted with Australians there who used the nickname.

However, I'm not able (or willing) to ask him about it, because he is my ex-boyfriend, and he left me for "Shaz" !

(She, at least, fits the stereotype of the promiscuous, bubble-headed Essex girl, but I certainly would like to think that I do not!)

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22 Aug 07 - 09:34 AM (#2131050)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: SharonA

By the way, I am a "share-en" as Snuffy says. Around here, there seems to be a culture clash: half the people I know call me "share-en" (generally the folks who come from the outer northern-and-western suburbs of Philly, and beyond into the Lehigh Valley), and the other half call me "shar-un".

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22 Aug 07 - 11:00 AM (#2131114)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: GUEST,leeneia

What are you talking about, Snuffy?

baron
barren
Sharon
share-en:

they all rhyme.
========
Bob Coltman, your Tracey Allen verse made me laugh. Thanks!

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22 Aug 07 - 01:41 PM (#2131249)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Marje

Leenia, are you in the US? The examples given may rhyme US English but they don't rhyme in any variant of UK English that I can think of - it's one of these transatlantic misunderstandings that arise here quite often.

Marje

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22 Aug 07 - 02:17 PM (#2131303)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: GUEST,SharonA, logged out

Leeneia: "Share-en" means saying the word "share" (with a long "A" and a silent "E"), and then saying "en" (as in the letter "N").

This does not rhyme with "baron" or "barren" (both of which have a short "A" sound) in US English or, apparently, in UK English.

Long "A" sound: Ayyyyyyyyy (like Fonzie used to say on "Happy Days")
Short "A" sound: Aaaaaa (like a sheep: baaaaaa)
Not to be confused with Ahhhhhhh (like the doctor tells you to say when he sticks the tongue depressor in your mouth and looks at your throat)

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22 Aug 07 - 02:33 PM (#2131332)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Becca72

I'm with Leeneia on this one...where I'm from they all rhyme...

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22 Aug 07 - 03:54 PM (#2131396)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Marje

But now, SharonA, you've got me wondering whether Americans and Brits make the same AHHH noise for their doctors, and whether American sheep make the same "Baaaa" as British ones...

Marje

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22 Aug 07 - 04:47 PM (#2131418)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Colin Randall

Namism now! We once had a babysitter called both Sharon AND Tracy, and she was as bright an individual as I'd ever met, and from Yorkshire not Essex.

But there aren't many songs about Colins either - I once had a huge interview with Linda Thompson on a Telegraph arts page, my own name up there in bold characters, only for the opposite page to be dominated by a piece from Colin Firth on the tragedy of being saddled with such a naff first name.

But I bet loads of other Mudcat subscribers have been scratching their heads when thinking of folk or any other song lyrics that include their names

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22 Aug 07 - 05:01 PM (#2131426)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: Azizi

In my experience, the name "Sharon" is alonst always pronounced to rhyme with "Baron".

Actually, I've never known a "Sharon" whose name was pronounced "Sherren" {like "Sherry" but take away the "y" and add "en"}.

But since, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the names "Sharon" and "Karen" were really widely used twin names among African American females {pre 1970s}, that means that the name "Karen" was/is usually pronounced "KA-run" [which rhymes with "Sharon" and "Baron"-btw, these would have been great rhyming names for two girl and one boy African American triplets.} But the "r" is hardly pronounced at all.

That said, I have known some Black women name "Karen" to pronounce their name "KA-ren" and not "Ka-run".

**
And btw, Marje, in the USA, a lot of sheep would rather skate than talk.

:o}

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22 Aug 07 - 05:13 PM (#2131432)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: robomatic

For the truth is that later that day, I found myself entering Sharon...

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23 Aug 07 - 07:41 AM (#2131850)
Subject: RE: why there are so few Sharons in song
From: GUEST,Shimrod

Monty Python had us believe that all male Australians are called Bruce.

I once had an Ozzie friend called Bruce - and he married a Sheila!

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