24 Sep 07 - 01:01 PM (#2156399) Subject: a new national anthem for ireland From: The Sandman Will a new national anthem,Which has the approval of both communities,help to create a united Ireland. It is [imo] as unreasonable to ask protestants from the north to sing the soldiers song,as to ask republicans to sing, God Save the Queen,or the Orange and the lily O. A competely new anthem and possibly new flag,with the approval of both sides,might make a united Ireland happen more quickly. I personally have no problem with the present Irish national anthem. How about A Song For Ireland,as a new Irish National anthem,anyone got any better suggestions. |
24 Sep 07 - 01:33 PM (#2156420) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: greg stephens Definitely "A Sonmg for Ireland", written as it was by a man from Staffordshire, where I happen to live currently. And compulsory eating of oatcakes could be introduced into Ireland, north and south, as well. |
24 Sep 07 - 01:36 PM (#2156422) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: The Sandman eating of oatcakes thats rather boring,how about compulsory eating of Magic Mushrooms.Dick Miles |
24 Sep 07 - 01:44 PM (#2156428) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: McGrath of Harlow I hope that's "would" not "will". I'd be very sorry to see the Soldiers Song replaced - and I'd argue that there's nothing at all sectarian in it. As for the flag - the very design of the present one is intended to represent both the Orange and the Green. I'd be very surprised if changes like that would in themselves alter many minds. |
24 Sep 07 - 01:51 PM (#2156432) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Big Al Whittle walking all the day, went in the pub, listened to an ould fiddler(he was shite!) dreamed of a land where no one had to fight... its okay, but not what you want hear before a football match |
24 Sep 07 - 02:14 PM (#2156445) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Declan Previous Thread on this subect |
24 Sep 07 - 02:14 PM (#2156446) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: The Sandman The wholepoint is that there is nothing compulsory ,that an agreement on a song is Decided by both parties that is acceptable to both sides. Mcgrath, Is not A United Ireland is more important than an anthem. I think John Cages 4 MINUTES 33 would be admirable,both teams would have to mime it,itwould be folk[under the 1954 definition] because it changes every tinme it is performed.DickMiles |
24 Sep 07 - 02:17 PM (#2156448) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Declan Ireland's Call by Phil Coulter is Irelands new Rugby anthem, Hasn't done much good putting fire in the bellies of our lads in France so far. Now 60,000 people singing La Marseillese definitely does the trick for the French team. |
24 Sep 07 - 02:34 PM (#2156461) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: MikeRebec Give Ireland Back to the Irish. Can't remember who wrote it. Was it paul McCartney. Or Poor Old Ireland by Roy Harper. |
24 Sep 07 - 02:50 PM (#2156474) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Shaneo There is nothing wrong with the one we have, this debate started way back when some foreign bands had difficulty playing The Soldiers Song. The loyalists have their own culture[fucked if I know what it is except sectarianism] and the nationalists have theirs. Peadar Kearney in 1937 added an extra verse to The National Anthem to include the north but was not embraced. If this debate was brought up in England or America where their anthem was to be changed to accommodate some ethnic minority there would be uproar. Only two weeks ago some Polish bouncer stopped a singer from playing our national anthem in a Dublin pub stating-We Have A Mixed Crowd Here Tonight-what next. The extra verse of the Irish National Anthem can be seen here on my site |
24 Sep 07 - 03:11 PM (#2156491) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Celtaddict Wow! What a site! Thanks for passing the word. |
24 Sep 07 - 03:11 PM (#2156492) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Big Al Whittle Extra verse is a bit obscure........ who are all those people? |
24 Sep 07 - 03:27 PM (#2156503) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Declan Wld Not 100% sure of this but Con Could be Conor Mac Nessa, an ancient king of Ulster. Owen is probably Owen Rua O Neill a 16th century gaelic Chieftain from Ulster (Around County Tyrone). Cave Hill is the hill over Belfast. Tone was Theobold Wolfe Tone the founder of the United Irishmen in the late 18th Century Slieve Gullion is a mountain in South Armagh. Inishowen is a peninsula in north Donegal Well you did ask. |
24 Sep 07 - 03:39 PM (#2156516) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Big Al Whittle thankyou Declan as always you are soul of courtesy to an ignorant Englishman. |
24 Sep 07 - 04:15 PM (#2156531) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring I've never liked that anthem - it's too martial and chauvinistic. Ireland surely needs a song that celebrates the beauty of the place, not old struggles. |
24 Sep 07 - 04:25 PM (#2156535) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: John MacKenzie The Sea Around Us. Giok |
24 Sep 07 - 05:18 PM (#2156563) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: The Sandman Wolfe Tone was also a Protestant,And believed in trying to unify catholics and protestants[The United Irishmen] [IMO]an Anthem that is acceptable to both sides will be a major stepping stone to a United Ireland,It is impossible to force an anthem on anyone side,be it God Save The Queen,or The Soldiers Song. |
24 Sep 07 - 05:48 PM (#2156581) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: greg stephens It may be possible, short term, to define yourself in terms of the brave lads fighting the Saxon tyrant. But in the long run, you probably need some other mirror to view yourself in.I appreciate McGrath's nostalgia for the song, but nothing lasts forever. In the fullness of time, this may have to go. When people decide so. |
24 Sep 07 - 06:01 PM (#2156584) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: GUEST,Guest Mr Miles as a non native please keep your nose out of our affairs! |
24 Sep 07 - 06:27 PM (#2156602) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: The Sandman It is the affair of everyone, who wants to see the end of bombing and violence,to try and achieve a unified Ireland through peaceful means.,if a new national anthem goes anyway towards this,then it is good. It is also my affair,because I live in Ireland and am affected by any political decisions,that politicians on this island of Ireland make. I have a vote in general elections,and use it in the direction that I think will best bring a unified Ireland. GUESTguest, to quote Marx ,no man is an island unto himself. . |
24 Sep 07 - 07:06 PM (#2156639) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Jim Lad It will happen without any outside help, I'm sure. Lord knows they've had enough help from Britain to last another six or seven hundred years. |
24 Sep 07 - 07:21 PM (#2156650) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Big Al Whittle We'll sing a song An Irish song Of James Joyce, Wilde and Yeats since Riverdance - the great advance All Irishmen are mates Tonight, we've vowed that there will be no chat Of 1916 and all that Its U2, Me too, Roddy Doyle From the Liffey to the Foyle Fine Gael, Fianna Fail Will sing an Irish song! you see - if you altered the words a bit...... |
24 Sep 07 - 08:21 PM (#2156697) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: McGrath of Harlow Is not A United Ireland is more important than an anthem? The thing is, I don't think that changing the anthem would do anything to bring a united Ireland nearer. In fact I can quite imagine ways in which it could be even more divisive. Symbols like that are complicated things. The fact that the RUC had shamrocks on their badges never helped convince Nationalists and Republicans that they was on their side. If anything it was seen as adding insult to injury. |
25 Sep 07 - 02:35 AM (#2156858) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: GUEST,Jim Carroll "It is also my affair, because I live in Ireland" How feckin' arrogant can you get? The bombing and the violence took place because we Brits have occupied Ireland for centuries and wish to continue to do so (albiet only 6 counties). And now we want to have a say in changing their national anthem. Isn't it time we copped on to ourselves? When will we ever learn? - as the song says. Jim Carroll PS I live in Ireland too. PPS Certainly NOT Phil Colclough's 'Song For Ireland' - nobody deserves that! Jim Carroll |
25 Sep 07 - 02:51 AM (#2156861) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Declan Captain, I wish you look in trying to end the bombing and violence. Have you listened to the news in the last 10 years? |
25 Sep 07 - 03:32 AM (#2156869) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Keith A of Hertford "If this debate was brought up in England or America where their anthem was to be changed to accommodate some ethnic minority there would be uproar." A verse of God Save The Queen was dropped because it referred to rebellious Scots. |
25 Sep 07 - 03:56 AM (#2156875) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: PMB Sash Of Our Fathers runs nicely into The Faith My Father Wore. |
25 Sep 07 - 07:16 AM (#2156936) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: The Sandman Jim ,Iknow why the bombing took place,. If you read my original post,I said it had to be decided by both parties,that doesnt necessarily include me,if I was allowed a vote on the matter ,I would use it,as I do in general elections,If I am excluded, I accept that too. However I am entitled to an opinion,as are all the people who have been affected by the violence, and all the people who have had relatives killed, whatever their nationality. If you read my ORIGINAL post carefully,I state that I do not have a problem with the Irish National Anthem. It is some protestants living in the north,that have a problem,much as republicans have a problem with God Save the Queen,compromises have to be made sometimes for there to be progress,now these decisions are not up to me[although if Iam allowed to vote on it I would]But up to the Irish people both sides of the border,Catholic and Protestant. But I am allowed to raise the subject for discussion on this forum,and should be allowed to do so without being told to keep my nose out of Irish affairs,and without being told I am feckin arrogant. |
25 Sep 07 - 08:05 AM (#2156954) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: The Sandman Jim Carroll,when I moved to Ireland in 1990,I accepted that I did not have a vote on the Constitution,I still accept that,. But it is my opinion that progress will not be made without both sides making compromises.It is everybodys affair, whatever their nationality to be concerned about The unification of Ireland,That doesnt mean they have a right to vote on the matter.But we do have a right to discuss it here Declan,there not has been an end to all violence. I do listen to the news, all the Patriots that died in the easter rising would be ashamed of the corruption that exists/existed in the last 25 years amongst Irish Politicians. |
25 Sep 07 - 09:14 AM (#2157002) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: greg stephens Marx said a lot of stuff, Capn, but not "no man is an island".Well, Marx might have quoted it, I don't know, but it was John Donne who said it, four hundred years ago. |
25 Sep 07 - 09:26 AM (#2157004) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: The Sandman oh yes, and Sinn Fein got one of my votes. |
25 Sep 07 - 09:26 AM (#2157007) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Mr Happy How about this: O land of my fathers O land of my love Dear mother of minstrels who kindle and move And hero on hero who at honours proud call For freedom their lifeblood let fall Eire, Eire oh but my heart is with you As long as the sea, Your bulwark shall be To Ireland my heart shall be true. O land of the mountains, the bard's paradise, Whose precipice, valleys lone as the skies, Green murmuring forest, far echoing flood Fire the fancy and quicken the blood Eire, Eire oh but my heart is with you As long as the sea, Your bulwark shall be To Ireland my tongue shall be true. For though' the fierce foeman has ravaged your realm, The old speech of Ireland he cannot overwhelm, Our passionate poets to silence command Or banish the harp from your strand. Eire, Eire oh but my heart is with you As long as the sea, Your bulwark shall be To Ireland my tongue shall be true. |
25 Sep 07 - 09:34 AM (#2157013) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Mr Happy Here's John Redwood singing the tune! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwBvjoLyZc |
26 Sep 07 - 06:09 AM (#2157589) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: GUEST,Guest Can you please desist from trying to tell us what to do about our national anthem. We do not presume to tell you what do with God Save the Queen. |
26 Sep 07 - 06:31 AM (#2157598) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: The Sandman God Save The Queen,is the national anthem of Irish people living in the six counties,some of them undoubtedly would want to change it[who can blame them]. In the event of a unified Ireland are there going to be two national anthems. neither side can expect to impose either anthem on the other side. Irish people in the republic would be outraged if God Save The Queen was imposed on them. logically it is equally outrageous for the Republic to impose the Soldiers Song on Irish Ulster Protestants. At the present moment the Soldiers Song is the National anthem of the republic,not the whole island of Ireland. |
26 Sep 07 - 07:23 AM (#2157607) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: PMB God Save The Queen doesn't even mention the UK, or Britain, or England for that matter. Practically nobody knows any of it except the first verse, and that's pretty innocuous. I'm sure Irishmen could find it in their hearts to revere a dignified old lady- they don't even have to give her a job, she's already paid well enough by us. The 'lost' verse does mention Scotland, in a bad sense, but I'm sure we could invent a few extra verses so everyone gets insulted equally. Who wrote that dreadful Rugby anthem? |
26 Sep 07 - 07:52 AM (#2157622) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: A Wandering Minstrel That's not dreadful it's brilliant! The sight of Peter Stringer between two towering forwards singing "shoulder to shoulder" never fails to amuse. (and lest I offend the captain, he is still one of the best scrum halves in the game!) |
26 Sep 07 - 10:24 AM (#2157720) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Big Al Whittle 'I'm sure Irishmen could find it in their hearts to revere a dignified old lady.......' Joan Collins...perhaps. |
26 Sep 07 - 12:38 PM (#2157801) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: The Sandman nice one WLD. |
26 Sep 07 - 07:44 PM (#2158120) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: McGrath of Harlow Since a united Ireland wouldn't have the Queen, God Save the Queen would be pretty irrelevant. The Sash has a better tune anyway, and I can quite imagine some arrangement that would include it alongside the Soldier's Song. Or maybe Lilliburlero, though that might be confusing for listeners to the BBC World Service. After all, that's more or less what what they did in the new South Africa, where the anthem includes both Sikelel' i Afrika and the Afrikaans Die Stem. I think something that represented both traditions alongside each other would make more sense than some cobbled up novelty that didn't have any roots. |
26 Sep 07 - 08:02 PM (#2158124) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Declan What about that great song "You raise me up" which has roots in "Danny Boy", "When A Child is Born" and "The Wind Beneath my Wings" among other songs. And it was even a hit for Westlife so half the country knows it already. This is NOT a serious suggestion! |
26 Sep 07 - 08:09 PM (#2158130) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Big Al Whittle How about, are you right there Michael, are you right? this is a very serious suggestion. |
27 Sep 07 - 12:02 AM (#2158241) Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland From: Jim Lad I've changed my mind. As a gesture of tolerance/submission the Irish should allow an English visitor to pick an anthem for them. Really! What possible harm could it do? |