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15 Oct 07 - 03:19 AM (#2171336) Subject: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Trevor Can anybody help me to understand this please? It was apparently written by Robert Carver in the 16th Century. Some of it is obvious but I'm struggling with some of the more obscure words and phrases. Thanks. Wo worth the tyme and eik the place That scho wes to me knaw'n For sine I did behald her face My hairt was nevir my aw'n My aw'n jo, my awn; my awn jo, my awn; My hairt was nevir my awn. Sumtyme I lyff't at libertie Bot nou I doe nocht so. Scho hes my hairt so faithfullie, That I can lufe no mo; No mo jo, no mo; no mo jo, no mo; That I can lufe no mo. To be refuist of luf, allace, All erdlie joy's, adewe. My mistress scho is merciles, And will nocht on me rew; Me rew jo, me rew; me rew jo, me rew; And will nocht on me rew. Nou am I leff't all confortles And no remeid can craif. My painis arre remediles, And all the wyt yow haif; Yow haif jo, yow haif; yow haif jo, yow haif; And all the wyt yow haif. |
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15 Oct 07 - 03:30 AM (#2171339) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: GUEST,PMB It's all pretty obvious except the last verse. This is more or less word for word into semi- modern English. Woe be to the time and place That she was to me known For since I did behold her face My heart was never my own. Once I lived in liberty But now I do not so She has my heart so faithfully That I can love no more To be refused of love, alas All earthly joys adieu My mistress she is merciless And will not on me rue Now I am left all comfortless And no cure can I crave My pains are remediless And all my wit you have. |
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15 Oct 07 - 03:43 AM (#2171342) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Trevor Thanks very much for that - it wasn't obvious to me! |
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15 Oct 07 - 03:44 AM (#2171344) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: s&r Something like this? Sad was the time and sad the place That she was to me known For since I did behold her face My heart was never my own My own jo, my own; my own jo, my own; My heart was never my own. Once I lived at liberty Bot now I do not so. she has my heart so faithfully, That I can love no more; No more jo, no more; no more jo, no more; That I can love no more. To be refused of love, alas, All earthly joy's, adieu My mistress she is merciless, And will not on me pity; Me pity jo, me pity; me pity jo, me pity; And will not on me pity. Now am I left all comfortless And no remedy can craft. My pains are incurable, And all the skill you have; you have jo, you have; you have jo, you have; And all the skill you have. Stu |
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15 Oct 07 - 03:46 AM (#2171345) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: s&r Crossed post PMB Stu |
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15 Oct 07 - 04:08 AM (#2171358) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Malcolm Douglas Almost all the words are still current in modern English, though some are spelled (and in some cases pronounced) differently nowadays. The trick is to read them aloud a few times; much of the mystery will disappear. You can sometimes get the sense of printed Dutch by doing the same thing. The orthography is Scottish (and note the use of 'jo': 'beloved') but really this differed a lot less than people sometimes think from Northern English of the same period. I think that the attribution to Carver (a Scottish monk and composer of sacred music) may perhaps be questionable. Where did you get the text and information? |
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15 Oct 07 - 04:29 AM (#2171361) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Trevor It was given to me by Bob Pegg, who heard us singing at a gig and thought it would suit us. The Carver information is from the sleeve notes of a 1997 album called 'Auld Flames' by The Feisty Besoms. (They also got it from Bob). I have searched a bit more without success. I really appreciate the input, thanks very much. |
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15 Oct 07 - 10:59 AM (#2171556) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: GUEST,leeneia Thanks for posting, Trevor. That was interesting. I agree with you that it's far from obvious what it all means. Most people, seeing 'scho,' for example, would think it was a variant of 'shoe.' What sort of singing group do you have? Just curious. |
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16 Oct 07 - 08:18 AM (#2172209) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Trevor We're a five-piece band performing, mostly unaccompanied, a whole range of stuff from ancient to contemporary, passing chapel hymns,a bit of shape-note and parody on the way - anything that we find enjoyable to sing, basically. I've just added some new tracks to our myspace page, here, if you're interested. |
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16 Oct 07 - 12:05 PM (#2172368) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: GUEST,leeneia Thanks for the link, Trevor. I enjoyed your music. |
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17 Oct 07 - 03:35 AM (#2172772) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Trevor Well, thank you kindly, madam or sir. |
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17 Oct 07 - 03:37 AM (#2172773) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Jim Lad Wow! Real singing. Very nice, Trevor. |
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17 Oct 07 - 03:59 AM (#2172780) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Trevor Wow, thanks Jim! |
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17 Oct 07 - 06:30 PM (#2173229) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: GUEST,Bob Pegg Hi Folks - the sum of the various renderings pretty much has it nailed. I'm sure it's not Carver, but anon. Trevor, enjoyed the Myspace music. Hope you get around to singing "Wo worth...". It would sound well with your combination of voices. BP |
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18 Oct 07 - 11:21 AM (#2173667) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Trevor Nice to hear from you Bob. We started to work on it last week - I'll make sure to get to hear our finished result. |
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18 Oct 07 - 01:21 PM (#2173772) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Trevor That should, of course, have read '...I'll make sure YOU get to hear our finished result'. |
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18 Oct 07 - 02:10 PM (#2173825) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Bill D Very good, Trevor and group...."Chickens in the Garden" was sung by friends at our wedding (in the US)28 years ago, and it was so nice to hear an actual recorded version...and done 'just right'. |
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18 Oct 07 - 04:48 PM (#2173962) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Rumncoke Have you ever heard 'All the great big gobblers in the garden?' Cracks me up every time. |
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24 Oct 07 - 08:17 AM (#2177995) Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please? From: Trevor That one had passed me by - I like it! |