|
09 Nov 07 - 10:50 AM (#2189833) Subject: Stravinsky's Firebird From: GUEST,Alan I am searching for the Russian folk song that Stravinsky used in the finale of his ballet, The Firebird. Anyone know a good source for it? |
|
09 Nov 07 - 02:46 PM (#2190020) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Joe Offer Hi, Alan - I added a bit to your thread title to make it a bit more specific and see if it attracts more attention. I dont' know the answer to your question, but this message of mine will bump the thread up to the top of the Forum Menu again. It's a question that's intrigued me for quite some time - is there a resource that will help identify folk songs used in classical pieces? -Joe- |
|
09 Nov 07 - 02:49 PM (#2190024) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Peace Any chance you have the song name? Some writeups on "The Firebird" mention the use of folksongs, but so far I haven't located the title. If we all crap out, maybe an e-mail to one of the symphonic orchestras would result in an answer.? |
|
09 Nov 07 - 03:16 PM (#2190045) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Leadbelly He made a selection out of hundred of russian folk songs. Because we cannot ask him for his special choice it will be very difficult to find the correct answer to this interesting question. Manfred |
|
09 Nov 07 - 03:37 PM (#2190067) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Mick Pearce (MCP) You might have a look at this article which suggests a source for some of the folk songs: The Music Of Igor Stravinsky And His Influence On 20th Century Popular Music in the anthologies edited and collected by Balakirev and Rimsky-Korsakov. Mick |
|
09 Nov 07 - 04:52 PM (#2190126) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Stewart I once (about 50 years ago, yikes!) sang under the direction of Igor Stravinsky in the chorus of his Les Noces. It too combines Russian folk songs, rhythms and instrumentation. But I never thought to ask him about the folk songs. Cheers, S. in Seattle |
|
10 Nov 07 - 12:59 AM (#2190346) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: GUEST,Alan Mick, thanks, but I had already come across the article "The Music Of Igor Stravinsky And His Influence On 20th Century Popular Music" which only identifies it as a melody from the Balakirev Anthology (1873), but it does not provide a title or any of the words. And, yes, Peace, the title is exactly what I'm needing to make it easier to track down the complete melody--I was hoping someone might know it. And, yes, Manfred (Leadbelly) he drew from hundreds of folk melodies, but we do know the melody he chose; it's a matter of matching it with the authentic Russian folk song, with its title, text, and melody--which is what I'm hoping someone still may be able to provide. Thanks to all...and hoepfully someone will still be able to provide the answer. Alan |
|
10 Nov 07 - 04:13 AM (#2190369) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Marilyn Firebird doesn't use as many Russian folk tunes as Petrushka but here are two that I know of. The 'Round Dance of the Princesses' is based on the song 'The Vain Suitor' for which I have both the dots and the lyrics in English. Should I post them and what about copyright issues? The finale of the Fire-Bird is based on the song 'The Larch Tree' I have the dots for this and some but not all of the lyrics (in English - don't have original Russian, I'm afraid). Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about this will post but, if not, perhaps this could be a start for you? |
|
10 Nov 07 - 11:01 AM (#2190496) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Leadbelly FOUND THE FOLLOWING MENTION (http://www.berliner-philharmoniker.de)IN GERMAN. They talk about a folk-song about "the pine in front of the gate" (das Volkslied von der Kiefer vor dem Tor). Sorry for not having the time to translate this source. "Als sich das Happy End abzeichnet, spielt das Solo-Horn – das Instrument des Prinzen – über flirrenden Streichern das Volkslied von der Kiefer vor dem Tor, zunächst in der Original-Gestalt. Kurz darauf aber, als sich die Handlung ihrem großartigen Ende zuneigt, verwandelt Strawinsky die Vorlage in etwas völlig anderes: Der Rhythmus und die friedliche Grundstimmung des Originals verschwinden; übrig bleiben die einzelnen, gleichmäßigen, in einem Siebener-Takt vom ganzen Orchester geschmetterten Töne des Volkslieds – einen triumphaleren Schluss kann man sich wohl kaum vorstellen." Manfred |
|
10 Nov 07 - 03:04 PM (#2190636) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Joe Offer Please post the songs, Marilyn. In general, posting of songs for discussion in a forum like this seems to fall under the "fair use" allowances of copyright law. As far as I know, the US has the longest copyright protection - it covers back to 1923. "Firebird" was written before that (1910, suite in 1919), so it is in the public domain - so it's doubly certain you're free to post the songs here. By the way, the Wikipedia article on Firebird is very interesting. -Joe- |
|
10 Nov 07 - 04:30 PM (#2190677) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: autolycus The only thing I've so far turned up is a huge 2-vol set, presumably borrowable thru the public library, called Stravinsky and the Russian Traditions by Richard Tarnskin (Uni.Cal.Press, 1996), more than 1700 pages. Sounds exhaustive from a review. Alternatively the best Stravinsky study in your nearest library or bookshop, or the library copy of the New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians. Ivor |
|
10 Nov 07 - 04:32 PM (#2190680) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Peace Good to see you back, Ivor. |
|
11 Nov 07 - 04:24 AM (#2191005) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Marilyn The Round Dance of the Princesses based on 'The Vain Suitor' 1. Through the garden a young man goes; On the breeze floats the perfume of a rose; On the breeze floats the perfume of a rose. 2. Past the green vineyards far he roams, And the while all his yellow locks he combs; And the while all his yellow locks he combs. 3. 'All my locks must be neat and smooth, In the latest fashion', declares the silly youth In the latest fashion', declares the silly youth 4. 'And my Barbara - I'll train her too; She must know all the smartest things to do. She must know all the smartest things to do. 5. "I'll take care not to be disgraced; She must learn to appreciate my taste. She must learn to appreciate my taste.' 6. But the girl sadly shakes her head; 'With a vain man I'll never wed. With a vain man I'll never wed.' Sorry, I have no idea whose translation this is. I also have the tune in standard notation but don't know how to post that - can anyone advise, please? I have some music notation software called Mozart so could 'Mozart' the tune and then post the .mz file. Would that be any use? |
|
11 Nov 07 - 04:35 AM (#2191008) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Marilyn The Larch Tree 1. Close to the gate there's a splendid larch tree, Ei looly looly splendid larch tree. 2. Doniushka dances and sings in her garden, Ei looly looly, sings in her garden. 3. Suddenly she sees a youth in the bushes. Ei looly looly, youth in the bushes. 4. 'Dance, little Donishka; soon you'll be mine.' Ei looly looly, soon you'll be mine. 5. Frightened she runs in, her eyes wild with terror. Ei looly looly, eyes wild with terror. The tune for this (which I have in standard notation but don't know how to post) is used for the Finale of the ballet. Stravinsky starts it quietly on solo horn. The same tune is repeated many times with more instruments joining in at each repetition. |
|
11 Nov 07 - 04:47 AM (#2191011) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: autolycus Marilyn - marvellous. Knowing your source would be, too. (Peace, great to be back and to hear from you.) Ivor |
|
11 Nov 07 - 05:13 AM (#2191018) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Marilyn Oops, got so carried away with delight at being able to put in bold and italic type (need to get a life!) I forgot to quote my source. Both songs are in The Oxford School Music Book Senior Part II (books 2 and 3 - this is from book 3). I used these books in the seventies teaching music in school and the Firebird was a real favourite with the kiddlywinks(!) Happy memories. |
|
12 Nov 07 - 04:10 AM (#2191754) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Leadbelly Marilyn, The Larch Tree is the song I mentioned (see above), Manfred |
|
12 Nov 07 - 04:53 AM (#2191768) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Marilyn Manfred: The Larch Tree is the song I mentioned (see above) Yes, of course it is - how stupid of me not to have made the connection. Excuse alert! - my schoolgirl German isn't up to much. I know that it's possible to take the abc for a tune and convert it into standard notation with, for example, the concertina.net 'thingummybob' but does anyone know how you can do the reverse i.e. take a tune in standard notation and produce the abc for it? If so, I could post the actual tune for this folk song. I know that I should be able just to look at the tune and write out the abc but I can't!! Alternatively, if someone is willing to write out the abc from seeing the dots I could scan the music and email it to them if they PM me with their email address. Marilyn |
|
12 Nov 07 - 11:16 AM (#2191978) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: GUEST,leeneia I don't know the answer to Alan's question (What is the name of the Russian folk song used?) However, I have found a MIDI of the Round Dance of the Princesses http://www.kunstderfuge.com/stravinsky.htm When I saw the Firebird performed, it occurred to me that The Round Dance of the Princesses could be a nice number for my band, which has flutes,recorders, harp, and guitar. I had no idea how to find a MIDI. Now I have it. Now to use music software to make the piece accessible to my friends... |
|
14 Nov 07 - 07:50 AM (#2193415) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Marilyn Jack Campin has very kindly taken a scan of the dots for The Larch Tree and converted it to abc. Many thanks Jack. X:1 T:The Larch Tree M:3/2 L:1/4 Q:1/2=104 "Moderato" K:F# Dorian B2 B2 A2|(GB) F2 E2|(A3G) (FA)|(GE) F4 | w:Close to the gate* there's a splen-* did* larch* tree w:Don-iush-ka dan-*ces and sings* in her gar-*den B4 A2|(GB) F2 E2|(A3G) (FA)|(GE) F4|] w:Ei loo-ly* loo-ly, sings* in her gar-*den. To play or display ABC tunes, try concertina.net |
|
14 Nov 07 - 11:27 AM (#2193563) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Leadbelly Hi, GUEST, Alan, Marilyn made it!!! Any comment? |
|
07 Dec 10 - 03:23 PM (#3048258) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: GUEST,GUEST: Will Keen Hello, Yes, I know where to find it. Follow this link: http://imslpforums.org/viewtopic.php?p=8594#8594 and go to figure 198. The melody is in the horn part there. Will |
|
08 Jan 11 - 01:12 PM (#3069935) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: GUEST,Matt Hi there, Despite some rather unhelpful answers (Manfred), although I don't know the name of it, if it was given one, it's No. 79 from R-K's '100 Russian Folk Songs'. I studied the Firebird as part of my degree and found the collection so can say it with some confidence. Hope that helps! Matt |
|
08 Jan 11 - 01:42 PM (#3069954) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Jack Campin Matt, it looks to me like the question was completely answered. Have you read the whole thread? If so, what's missing? |
|
09 Jan 11 - 01:52 AM (#3070325) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Artful Codger According to several Russian pages like this one, the "pine before the gates" song is "Не сосна у ворот раскачалася" = "No pine sways at the gate". Stravinsky later used this tune again, for a canon, "Вариации памяти Олдоса Хаксли" = "Variations in memory of Aldous Huxley" (1964). The lyrics above for "The Larch Tree" correspond to some I found for "У ворот сосна раскачалась" = "At the gate a pine sways". The title given for these lyrics translates as "The girl and the voivod's* son": ДЕВУШКА И ВОЕВОДСКИЙ СЫН У ворот сосна раскачалась, Наша Дунюшка разыгралась, Наша белая расшутилась. Воеводский сын на крыльце стоит, На крыльце стоит — поиграть велит: «Поиграй, Дунюшка, поиграй, любушка. Я тебя, Дуня, лучше всех люблю, Я платок куплю с алыми лентами, С алыми лентами, с позументами!» К вечеру Дуня захворала, Ко белу свету на погост везут. Воеводский сын на крыльце стоит: «Прощай, Дунюшка, прощай, любушка! От меня Дуня на тот свет пошла, Во сыру землю, во желты пески, Во желты пески, во дубовы доски!» My literal translation: At the gates a pine sways/shakes, Our Dunyushka played, Our fair-skinned one amused herself. The voivod's son stands on the porch, Stands on the porch, commands her to play: "Play, Dunyushka, play, my dear, Dunya, I love you more than all others, I'll buy a kerchief with scarlet ribbons, With scarlet ribbons, with braid!" By evening, Dunya fell ill, To the white earth, to the churchyard they carried her. The voivod's son stands on the porch: "Farewell, Dunyushka, farewell, my dear! Dunya has gone from me to the earth, Into the dry ground, into the yellow sands, Into the yellow sands, into the oaken planks!" * A voivod was the governor of a province, or the commander of an army. The adjectival form, used here, might extend to other administrating officers. The Russian title of the round-dance movement is "Хоровод царевен"—this may help in searches for information. |
|
29 Jan 19 - 11:23 PM (#3974077) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: GUEST,Janni Anyone have a link to the melodies of these songs? |
|
30 Jan 19 - 03:34 AM (#3974089) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Jack Campin For The Larch Tree, everything you want is in this thread already. What else are you after? |
|
31 Jan 19 - 03:22 PM (#3974271) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: Helen Hi Janni, Copy the ABC notation of The Larch Tree, go to this link: ABC notation converter Paste the ABC's into the box, and hit submit at lower right. Then you will have the options to listen to or save the midi file, look at or save the pdf file of the music notation, etc. If you want to find the other tune mentioned, The Vain Suitor, then it's probably easiest to do a Google search for the title plus the words "sheet music" and look at the Image tab to find the one you want. |
|
01 Oct 19 - 05:19 PM (#4011483) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: GUEST Rimsky-Korsakov Collection of 100 Russian Folksongs opus 24. Song #21 |
|
01 Oct 19 - 08:13 PM (#4011506) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: GUEST,Starship The following link may be of use to someone: https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dw.asp?dc=W16670_120165 |
|
01 Oct 19 - 08:23 PM (#4011507) Subject: RE: folk song used in Stravinsky's Firebird From: GUEST,Starship PS: To listen, click on the eighth notes to the left of the piece you wish to hear. |