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16 Nov 07 - 01:11 PM (#2195413) Subject: Country or Social dance in the States From: Les in Chorlton It's clear from all sorts of sources that songs were taken with people to the States in the 18 & 19C. Did those people, or others take country/social dance as well? |
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16 Nov 07 - 01:34 PM (#2195429) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: Marje They must have done, mustn't they? It's reasonable to guess (unless someone knows different) that the American square dance had its origins in the quadrille, and their contras must be related to our existing longways-set dances. And Appalachian step dance is not so far removed from the clogging and stepping found in several regions of England, and no doubt elsewhere. I'm just guessing really. I'm sure that someone will be along soon to expand (or contradict). Marje |
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16 Nov 07 - 01:41 PM (#2195442) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: johnadams a href="http://www-ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/~winston/ecd/history.htmlx">http://www-ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/~winston/ecd/history.htmlx This might help. J |
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16 Nov 07 - 01:42 PM (#2195443) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: johnadams http://www-ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/~winston/ecd/history.htmlx Or that might be better! |
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17 Nov 07 - 09:22 AM (#2195907) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: Les in Chorlton Anyone else? |
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17 Nov 07 - 11:09 AM (#2195984) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: Les in Chorlton Thanks again John, ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCE AND ITS AMERICAN COUSIN: HISTORY AND COMPARISON By Alan Winston From your link - its a good summary I think. This seems to re-affirm that feeling that "Country dancing" was mostly a pursuit of the middle or professional classes at a time when a large proportion of people worked on the land. Sometimes survived in rural villages when the towns moved on to new fashions. |
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17 Nov 07 - 11:57 AM (#2196020) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: johnadams Sometimes survived in rural villages when the towns moved on to new fashions. ... and in England some counties lagged behind others. If you look at Joshua Jackson's ms (1799) and then at Lawrence Leadley's from the same county (but 2/3 decades later) the contents are significantly different. There's a pre and post Napoleonic Wars factor to be taken into account, but across in Lancashire, HSJ Jackson in 1823 has a repertoire that still coincides greatly with his namesake in Yorkshire - Joshua Jackson, 25 or so years earlier. In America, once things had settled down after the various wars, there would have been lots of other cultures to influence the dances and music and develop them down alternative paths. I must read more!!! All the info is probably out there. |
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17 Nov 07 - 12:06 PM (#2196027) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: Marje Thanks for that link, John. Interesting reading, and duly bookmarked. My guessing wasn't far off the mark, but it's great to have a bit more detail. Funny thing is that nowadays there's an "English" dance movement in the US that consists mainly of the "Playford plod" style of dance - the more modern e-ceilidh style of dance does not seem to have crossed the Pond yet. Marje |
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17 Nov 07 - 12:08 PM (#2196031) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: Les in Chorlton Just a small point but what does Contra mean in the US? |
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17 Nov 07 - 02:06 PM (#2196111) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: Mo the caller It means dances in longways (duple minor) formation. Nowadays the first coupe are usually 'improper', 2s 'proper' so you've got an alternating line of men and women. In all Duple minor dance you start in small circles of 4 (minor sets), and during the first turn of the dance the 1s and 2s change places, starting the next turn with a different couple. My guess is that Contra, MUC (modern urban contra) and Zesty Contra fill the need for high energy dancing with lots of swinging that E-Ceilidh does here. |
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17 Nov 07 - 02:36 PM (#2196124) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: Les in Chorlton Thanks Mo, does this go on a lot? |
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17 Nov 07 - 03:04 PM (#2196137) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: Bert Square dancing did evolve from the quadrilles. It changed gradually as it went West. By the time it reached California, the Step had been reduced to a gliding walk with the feet brushing the ground in the middle of each step. This included the swing which became just a kind of walkaround. The biggest change though happened in the Nineteen Fifties with the advent of readily available, usable PA systems. This allowed the dancers to hear the caller clearly. So the caller was able to direct the dancers through each movement. The dance then was able to move away from learned set dances and became learned set movements which the caller was able to direct in an impromptu manner. So now you get up and dance and just don't know what the caller is going to call. You have to know the movements and have to be able to dance them from any position. With a good caller, Square Dancing then became much more exciting and more fun. Different dance clubs dance to different levels of skill so you had better find out a club's skill level before you go. So called "Traditional" Square dance clubs are often stuck in the Fifties. Not that that is a bad thing, just another choice that dancers have. |
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17 Nov 07 - 04:10 PM (#2196176) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: RTim In my experience here in the USA - Contra is very popular particularly with the young, and English dance is more like Playford and more sedate. Some English dancers don't even like to Rant when it is required - and even at Pinewoods camp (summer home of CDSS) they state before any dance with Ranting that is is going to happen, so dancers can sit out. Ceilidh dance here is not liked by many, as they seem to think that the dances are too simple, and dancing friends of mine who have been to a Barn Dance or ceilidh in the UK hate that most of the dancers have no idea how to dance! Ceilidhs have worked at Pinewoods with a loud band in Ampleforth and a singing session in the Camphouse (with a bar!) at the same time - but then some dancer even complain (after dancing English 3 sessions per day) that it has been just set up for the Singers & the Drinkers! Tim Radford |
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17 Nov 07 - 06:10 PM (#2196282) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: Bert A lot of English dancers CAN'T rant! *GRIN* |
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18 Nov 07 - 11:08 AM (#2196732) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: GUEST,Sheila What is "ranting"? |
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18 Nov 07 - 12:37 PM (#2196807) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: Mo the caller It's a kind of step. wasier to demonstrate than do. 4 beats to the bar, 2 hops with the other foot tapping the ground in front, change weight (feet together), pause. This is when danced standing in place, ranting to your partner. There is also a travelling rant, similar to a polka step (not turning). You get lots of Contra in England too, E.g. one of the early evening Ceilidhs at Chippenham festival is a Zesty Contra. Called by Rhodri Davies. You need plenty of wind, some knowledge and a good deal of concentration. |
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18 Nov 07 - 03:33 PM (#2196939) Subject: RE: Country or Social dance in the States From: Mo the caller Sorry, that should have said "Easier to demonstrate..." |