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13 Mar 08 - 01:33 PM (#2287543) Subject: Björk said free Tipet and the china .... From: skarpi well all, about two weeks ago björk was doin a concert in china , and when she was finish the declear independence she said " Free Tipet " and the at some state the china men did not like itvery well. So will this affekt other musical bands to play in china ? who knows ?? All The Best skarpi Iceland |
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13 Mar 08 - 02:06 PM (#2287569) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: irishenglish I don't see how it will affect western musicians playing China. The Chinese have been selective in who they allow to play there, and because it doesn't happen too often, they will allow more music, but probably keep the reigns on a little tighter than with Bjork. |
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13 Mar 08 - 03:19 PM (#2287610) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Internationally, it is up to governments and the United Nations to make representations, not performers. Bjork, whoever he is, should have known better. |
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13 Mar 08 - 03:20 PM (#2287612) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: irishenglish Um...she Q, Icelandic rock singer formally of the band The Sugarcubes. |
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13 Mar 08 - 03:32 PM (#2287622) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: redsnapper I find it hard to imagine someone who is a musician has never heard of Bjork. And why should a musician not say something? We are all human beings and entitled to say what we like when we believe there is a terrible injustice. Anyway... well done Bjork and more people should take her lead. RS |
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13 Mar 08 - 03:41 PM (#2287629) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice "entitled to say what we like when we believe there is a terrible injustice." I suppose so, if all you can see is the immediate, ie the moment in which the mouth is engaged before putting the brain in gear. China is hardly a hot bed of human rights to begin with, in doing what she did, I firmly believe Bjork endangered the lives of activists who actually live in China, and work diligently to better the lives of the subjected, and who live in constant danger of being found out for their activities A Word to the followers of the Holy Church of St. Bono, stick to performing, it's what most of you do best. Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool) |
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13 Mar 08 - 04:08 PM (#2287660) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Rock, you say? Music? Pity. |
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13 Mar 08 - 05:01 PM (#2287702) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: redsnapper I suppose so, if all you can see is the immediate, ie the moment in which the mouth is engaged before putting the brain in gear So principles have nothing to do with it then...? RS |
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13 Mar 08 - 05:08 PM (#2287711) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: michaelr If you've got the bully pulpit, I say use it! Celebrities have the ear of the media and can use it to effect change. Whether it's Sinead O'Connor tearing up a picture of the pope or Bono advocating for Third World debt relief, more power to them. Cheers, Michael |
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13 Mar 08 - 05:09 PM (#2287712) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: irishenglish I was just wondering what you meant by China "hardly being a hotbed of human rights"? And her saying an off the cuff bumper sticker slogan which mentions no specific people does not endanger anyone specific. Now if she had namedropped a specific individual, then I would say you have a case for endangerment. |
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13 Mar 08 - 05:40 PM (#2287738) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice I was just wondering what you meant by China "hardly being a hotbed of human rights"? Ummmm...human rights in China...non-existent.. "Now if she had namedropped a specific individual, then I would say you have a case for endangerment." hardly....the Chinese government, if even it thinks there might be trouble, round up the "usual suspects" so to speak, individual names is not a requirement. Charlotte (the view from ma and Pa's piano stool) |
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13 Mar 08 - 07:41 PM (#2287829) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: katlaughing I don't think the Dalai Lama would mind. He travels the globe telling one and all to Free Tibet. If you've got the bully pulpit, use it. Besides what I read said she sang a song called "Declare Independence" and just shouted "Tibet, Tibet!" right after. There is an inference, yes, but it's hardly a ringing "Free Tibet" kind of thing. Perhaps it was such an emotional moment for her, she couldn't help it. |
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13 Mar 08 - 09:57 PM (#2287932) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Richard Bridge Hmm, Pete Seeger OK, Bono and Bjork not OK? And the difference is? |
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13 Mar 08 - 10:43 PM (#2287967) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Q (Frank Staplin) When did Pete Seeger go abroad? He did his protesting at home, as far as I know. |
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13 Mar 08 - 11:17 PM (#2287984) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Stilly River Sage I find it hard to imagine someone who is a musician has never heard of Bjork So what are your specs, redsnapper? Your type of music, your age? That makes a big difference in who people are paying attention to, and if they haven't heard of her it doesn't diminish in any way their credibility as musicians. I'm not a musician, per se (I don't perform publicly), I mostly pay attention to older rock, folk, and classical music. So. I'd never heard of her until two days ago when a friend who lives in Greenwich Village, New York, told me she had dropped in at the gay bar he frequents. Had her security guy(s) with her. I had to look her up. I still don't know what she sings. SRS |
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14 Mar 08 - 12:18 AM (#2288003) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: katlaughing We've discussed her before a little bit: Click Here. If you put her name in the search box a few other threads come up which have info about her and her music. |
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14 Mar 08 - 04:08 AM (#2288037) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Dave the Gnome stick to performing, it's what most of you do best. And what exactly is it that YOU do best, Charlotte? Do you always stick to that? Do the words kettle and pot mean anything to you? D. |
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14 Mar 08 - 04:11 AM (#2288038) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Richard Bridge I don't think that Pete Seeger stayed in the USA his entire life. In any event why would staying safe at home and protesting be somehow more meritorious than going out where it might get nasty and protesting? |
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14 Mar 08 - 04:33 AM (#2288052) Subject: RE: Bj�rk said free Tibet and the china .... From: semi-submersible Here's a viewpoint on whether to mind our own business "when we believe there is a terrible injustice" from a world-class authority. You may have heard of him. (This quote was included a couple of days ago in the free email from A.Word.A.Day.) "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." -Desmond Tutu, clergyman (b. 1931) Personally, I don't see how ignoring a grave injustice would help the efforts of people trying to correct it. The descriptions of her comment sound measured and honest. |
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14 Mar 08 - 06:11 AM (#2288088) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: redsnapper So what are your specs, redsnapper? Your type of music, your age? That makes a big difference in who people are paying attention to, and if they haven't heard of her it doesn't diminish in any way their credibility as musicians. Bjork has been in the mainstream public eye for 20 years and was recording at least 10 years before that. She is generally acknowledged as having a very unique voice and style, whether one likes her music or not. She was also the lead in the major Lars Von Trier film Dancer in the Dark, discussed at length here at Mudcat, and was active in raising a large amount of money for tsunami relief. She has also been the subject of a number of other threads on Mudcat over the years as Katlaughing said. So therefore I do find it surprising people, particularly musicians, have not heard of her. By the way I am in my late fifties and play blues and Irish/Scottish traditional music, so Bjork is not exactly my genre but I do try to keep my eyes, ears and mind open. RS |
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14 Mar 08 - 06:26 AM (#2288093) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Black Diamond I always feel a little sad when people make these kind of "stands" in public. If Bjork supports the cause of the people of Tibet why did she go to China and accept liberal payment for her singing? Bjork is in the business of making money for herself through her performances and that is the only reason she went to China, to make a fast buck. If she is happy to do that, and to accept their money, then she is morally challenged to begin with. In another thread on Mudcat we were encouraged to veto the Olympics because of the lack of human rights. doesnt this apply to all aspects of relationships with the country?? including music performances. Mind you I have yet to be persuaded that what Bjork does is anywhere close to what I would call music !!!!! Lin |
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14 Mar 08 - 07:36 AM (#2288121) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: pavane She did start out as an Icelandic Folk Singer, I think. I remember seeing a bit about her on TV. Her big hit about it being so quiet (and then shouting) was actually an old song from the 1940's. Can't remember the proper title though. |
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14 Mar 08 - 07:37 AM (#2288122) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: pavane Blow a Fuse, I think. |
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14 Mar 08 - 07:40 AM (#2288124) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: pavane The Blonde Bombshell, Betty Hutton, passed on, March 11th, 2007. Her most notable film role was the part of Annie Oakley in the 1950 musical of "Annie Get Your Gun." One of her best known songs, "Blow a Fuse" (a.k.a. "It's Oh So Quiet"), was covered by Icelandic artist, Bjork. This song appears on Betty Hutton's CD albums, "Spotlight on Betty Hutton" and "Satin & Spurs". |
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14 Mar 08 - 08:17 AM (#2288138) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Barry Finn I had no idea of who Bjork was either, until I read this tread, can I still be a musician? Please. Those involved in the arts have always spoken their mind through their art's medium & with their voice. They are usually the 1st to fell the yoke of oppression because of their positions too. To bring up Bono in any light but a bright light is a disservice to all musicians everywhere. Here's a talented musician whose achived fame & fortune & put it to great use not only with world debt but his achivements as an AIDS activist has had a profound possitive effect in Africa. Talk about one person making a huge change in the world, we should all be so quiet about what we feel stongly about. Barry |
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14 Mar 08 - 08:30 AM (#2288143) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: matt milton Good for Bjork. It may not be much, but you can be damn sure that if there were any pro-Tibetan sympathisers in the audience they appreciated it. (I'm guessing Bjork's audience was probably largely the moneyed middle-class and I'm guessing they probably have better access to the limited information available about such things.) Plus I don't see how a foreign artist those two words endangers activists' lives any more than they are already. I increasingly believe that there's much more force in a visiting dignitary (as it were) embarassing the authorities in situ than a wholesale cultural boycott, in which no one plays there in the first place. |
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14 Mar 08 - 08:44 AM (#2288158) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: skarpi Well I´ll be......... Bjork started out as a child singer ,and after that she started in some " punk " bands and she has done a jazz album with Icelandic folk songs , but the again she started her own many years ago , now I know Bjork a little and she´ll say what she think , she is just like that and if I dont like it well then its my problem . She a wonderful person , she is and she always be her self and nothing else , she never try to copy anything . Independence and independence , its sometimes strange to hear the most powerful nation in the world talk about independence. What will US do when Taiwan will declear independence ? Why did Us suport Kosovo ? why not Tipet , becouse china is involved ? why not the Bask in Spain ? why not cypers / Greek/turkey ? but thats another political matter , and its tricky to solve . so be friends all All the best Skarpi Iceland |
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14 Mar 08 - 08:54 AM (#2288169) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,PMB Why not an independent Kurdistan? Why must we accept the national boundaries drawn up at the end of World War II as eternal? But the fact remains that gestures like this do draw attention to injustices (which are much more the issue than some notional "independence"), and I applaud her for that. Even though the personal risk was minimal- they wouldn't arrest a high- profile international star. I suppose it's on a level with Black Power salutes at the Olympics. |
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14 Mar 08 - 09:07 AM (#2288179) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,Joe 'Internationally, it is up to governments and the United Nations to make representations' Because we all have eternal faith in our respective Governments to make the right decisions and do what is best for humanity.... |
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14 Mar 08 - 09:46 AM (#2288204) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: topical tom Simply put, we need more Bjorks, Bonos,and Pete Seegers et al;people of lofty moral convictions who are not afraid to express them.By lofty moral principles I mean beliefs in social justice. |
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14 Mar 08 - 10:00 AM (#2288217) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: irishenglish ....the Chinese government, if even it thinks there might be trouble, round up the "usual suspects" so to speak, individual names is not a requirement. I highly doubt that Charlotte. What would be the grounds if they made no so called "inflammatory" speech themselves. You think just because Bjork possibly said two words at a concert that every Chinese dissident has been rounded up? |
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14 Mar 08 - 10:09 AM (#2288224) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Stilly River Sage Well, my friend in Greenwich Village suggested that she cut a rather wide swath, a bit of a pampered star routine, when she and her protection cruised through the tiny little Julius bar. The farther from home you are, perhaps your behavior is less self-regulated. so Bjork is not exactly my genre but I do try to keep my eyes, ears and mind open. Ah, I see. So someone who doesn't know who this woman is doesn't have an open mind like you do because they haven't bothered to investigate someone they didn't know about in an overload world of noise, some of which is music. Shall we each list the performers who we have discovered and who are well known in certain circles, and then dismiss everyone else's lists? For now I'll consider her a Richard Gere acolyte. In world politics they would be up there with Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. Mostly light, little heat. SRS |
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14 Mar 08 - 10:14 AM (#2288230) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Peace 'During a gig in Shanghai last week the Icelandic singer shouted "Tibet" at the crowd at the end of what the Xinhua news agency said was an "unapproved song", Declare Independence.' I wonder if she'd have caused a problem had she shouted "dog food". |
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14 Mar 08 - 10:24 AM (#2288236) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: matt milton A Richard Gere "acolyte"? So anyone remotely well known who expresses an opinion about something to do with international politics is doing so because they are fervent admirers of Richard Gere? Yeah, I'm totally convinced that that is surely the case. "In world politics they would be up there with Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. Mostly light, little heat" Well Bjork's not a politican so it's rather pointless to point out her stature in terms of world politics. You may as well say "In terms of pop music George W Bush would be up there with David Cameron and Angela Merkel". Nobody's suggesting that two words spoken by Bjork at a concert are going to effect anything massively significant regarding China and Tibet. Are you saying that nobody other than politicians should ever say anything about politics in public? If so, do these politicans have to be elected? If not, when and where exactly are non-politicians allowed to comment on politics? For example, am I permitted to use the words "Free tibet" in a conversation in my local pub? What is your point? |
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14 Mar 08 - 10:25 AM (#2288239) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Wesley S When did Pete Seegar go abroad? Dozens of times - too many to count. And I doubt that he changed his viewpoint because of the country he was in. You can depend on that. And if you STILL don't know who Bjork is - she was the woman who wore a dress that looked like a swan to the 2001 Oscars. See picture - swan dress |
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14 Mar 08 - 10:37 AM (#2288249) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,Joe Free the Swan!!!!! |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:05 AM (#2288262) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Dave Polshaw Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:08 AM stick to performing, it's what most of you do best. And what exactly is it that YOU do best, Charlotte? Do you always stick to that? Do the words kettle and pot mean anything to you? I play my music, Polshaw, and I don't include politics in my repetoire, and I'm hardly the only musician who avoids mixing music and politics. Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:12 AM (#2288270) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice "I highly doubt that Charlotte. What would be the grounds if they made no so called "inflammatory" speech themselves. You think just because Bjork possibly said two words at a concert that every Chinese dissident has been rounded up?" Doubt all you want. If Bjork supports the cause of the people of Tibet why did she go to China and accept liberal payment for her singing? exactly. It's kind of like being invited to someone's house and then criticising the decor or the people who invited you in the first place. Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool) |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:19 AM (#2288277) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Wesley S Do you think compairing furniture and human rights is valid? |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:27 AM (#2288283) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice "Do you think compairing furniture and human rights is valid?" I notice you focus right in on that remark and ignore the rest...interesting.. I also stated "or the people who invited you in the first place." answer this question that was posed in another post "If Bjork supports the cause of the people of Tibet why did she go to China and accept liberal payment for her singing?" Charlotte (the view from ma and Pa's piano stool) |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:28 AM (#2288286) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: 21st Century Bluesman "It's kind of like being invited to someone's house and then criticising the decor or the people who invited you in the first place." Yeah, right. I'm with all those England footballers who gave the Nazi salute before a match in Germany in 1938. No one must upset the apple cart... What a ridiculous argument... |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:33 AM (#2288292) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Banjiman erm....what's wrong with politics in music, why is avoiding them a good thing to do? To my mind a lot of the best traditional and contemporary Folk songs have a political theme. Fair play to Bjork I say and bugger the decor! Paul |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:34 AM (#2288293) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,Joe "I notice you focus right in on that remark and ignore the rest...interesting.." Yes I agree, I think she is referring more to a style or theme of decoration within a house as opposed to just the choice of pieces of furniture. anyway.... By Bjork singing in China in exchange for money, does Tibet become any worse off?? |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:37 AM (#2288297) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Chaos in Lhasa as protests spread Coincidence anyone....? Charlotte (the view from ma and Pa's piano stool) |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:41 AM (#2288299) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: 21st Century Bluesman And your point? Ah! I get it. No one should ever rise up against oppressive regimes. Nice one. |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:41 AM (#2288300) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,Joe Oh yeah, this has all to do with her comments and nothing to do with the anniversary of the Tibetan uprising .... your flawed logic is ... well .... flawed. |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:44 AM (#2288306) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Sandy Mc Lean Only people with a high profile can ever get the chance to make any statement before a mass audience in China. This pretty well limits it to politicians, entertainers, and athletes. Politicians lack the guts so that leaves entertainers and athletes. God bless Bjork for making a stand against China's treatment of it's people. The Olympics will provide a stage where athletes will hopefully defy both their own and the Chinese governments to make many similar statements. Live worldwide TV coverage should provide a venue that defeats censorship. If the Chinese attempt to censor the broadcasts it will only prove to world how these bastards operate. We should all stand for a better world but these days the international business conglomerates are kissing China's arse. We should not stand for that! |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM (#2288309) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: irishenglish I will doubt because you can't prove that assertion. She wasn't supposed to perform that song anyway, as previously mentioned. As to the money, yes of course she was paid to perform in China. If she has any type of conscience, I'm sure she wrestled with the question of should she perform there or not, just like all the other western artists who have played there. I think its a little unfair to say simply that Bjork and others performed in China merely for the money. Charlotte, yes you are not the only performer not to mix politics with music. SOme do and it comes across weak because they don't truly understand the politics of what they are talking about. Some do it successfully because they do understand. Some make their "political" point of view by merely performing at an event, or in a place like China. Maybe she wanted to perform that song and say Tibet no matter what the Chinese authorities told her. I don't know, because I'm not in her head. |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM (#2288310) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Stilly River Sage Little side excursions aren't helping this discussion. It's a mess. I see the politics of Gere and Jolie to be bundled in with a Hollywood package that is so opulent that it gives off a lot of other vibrations beyond the political message they are intending. If you live really really large in your own country, you have to expect some skeptics when you start speaking out for the underclass in other nations. I wouldn't say Gere lives large, I don't know much about him, actually. I take a reading that he comes across as more "authentic" in his views than Jolie and Pitt. For them, it feels like having babies and adopting babies is their current hobby. Perhaps not fair, but something that comes across in all of the chatter generated about them and by their own publicity folks. Nothing wrong with expressing your politics if you're a singer, but there can be consequences. I wonder how many of the folks who support Bjork's comments burned their Dixie Chicks CDs when the Chicks slammed George Bush while they were in Europe? I suppose the difference is that Bjork was a visitor to China, criticising China. and the Dixie Chicks were abroad and speaking of their own country, their own state even. They aired their own dirty laundry and were slammed in their own country. Bjork aired someone else's dirty laundry in that country and was criticised. Do these bear comparison? SRS |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:51 AM (#2288313) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice "Nothing wrong with expressing your politics if you're a singer, but there can be consequences. I wonder how many of the folks who support Bjork's comments burned their Dixie Chicks CDs when the Chicks slammed George Bush while they were in Europe?" Well folks...and the answer is....? "Oh yeah, this has all to do with her comments and nothing to do with the anniversary of the Tibetan uprising .... your flawed logic is ... well .... flawed." not me making that arguement, all I said was...coincidence. and I'm very aware of the approaching anniversary.. Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool) |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:56 AM (#2288322) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,Joe I was making an inference from your comment. You cannot choose for that statement to switch between a highly subjective comment to one that you claim is purely objective. |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:57 AM (#2288323) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Peace Why hold Bjork to any sort of different standard? Our countries deal with them, so we indeed give tacit support to their policies. Maybe she's gonna give some of the cash she made to the Tibetans. Maybe she's gonna buy a bunch of clothing to give to needy kids. Maybe she's gonna keep it all. Who knows? As Sandy said above, it's time to stop kissing China's arse. She took one small step in that direction. Her motives? I have no idea. |
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14 Mar 08 - 11:58 AM (#2288326) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Wesley S What good does it do to criticise China while sitting in Iceland? Who's going to cover the story? No one. We're talking about this aren't we? Would this thread have been started if Bjork had made her comments in Iceland? NO. If you oppose the corruption in the first place you speak out whenever and where ever you can. Even if it makes people uncomfortable. Does that make any sense to you? To use your analogy - you go to a party at someones house and they start to tell jokes using words like "fag" and "nigger". Do you keep quiet about it? Or do you tell the host they are being offensive? |
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14 Mar 08 - 12:01 PM (#2288332) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: folk1e "I play my music, Polshaw, and I don't include politics in my repetoire, and I'm hardly the only musician who avoids mixing music and politics." If you play folk music it is hard to imagine you NOT being political! All of the Spirituals, most of Blues or even (spits on ground) Country has a political ellement. There are some folk songs that the authorities would have removed your lips for at one time! Power to the people! |
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14 Mar 08 - 12:05 PM (#2288337) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice "burned their Dixie Chicks CDs" alot of people did indeed do that, and not those that supported the statements made by the Dixie Chicks...there were many American radio stations who removed the Chicks from their play lists as well...all this, however, had little effect on the sales of their then current CD. Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool) |
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14 Mar 08 - 12:06 PM (#2288340) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: skarpi Wesley , if she would have said this here in Iceland yes I would have started this thread . and yes I would say the host about the offence ATB Skarpi |
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14 Mar 08 - 12:31 PM (#2288364) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Wesley S Skarpi - Yes I have no doubt that you would have started this thread. My comments were directed at the fact that the mass media - including my morning paper here in Texas - covered the story too. |
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14 Mar 08 - 12:42 PM (#2288375) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: skarpi :>) That I dont know of , yes I think so . |
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14 Mar 08 - 12:59 PM (#2288395) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: redsnapper My comments were directed at the fact that the mass media - including my morning paper here in Texas - covered the story too. Quite so Wesley! It shows that a musician which a moral view on a grave injustice can make a useful and well-publicised stand... a long tradition that seems to fortunately still be alive amongst some. As Sandy McLean said politicians rarely say anything when it involves the Chinese. RS |
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14 Mar 08 - 01:03 PM (#2288399) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Sandy Mc Lean The feet of the Chinese government must be kept to the fire by any means available until real change is won. Be it the illegal annexing of Tibet, the massacre at Tiananmen Square, religious persecution, or present day sweatshops, China has re-buffed all diplomatic attempts from other nations and the UN to seek improvement. |
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14 Mar 08 - 01:05 PM (#2288400) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Wesley S And if the woman in the swan dress gets people talking about it then it's fine with me. More power to her. |
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14 Mar 08 - 01:07 PM (#2288402) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: irishenglish I wonder how many people on here would have the guts, while in China to say anything controversial at all. Of course she is a star, but more power to Bjork for her comment. |
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14 Mar 08 - 01:07 PM (#2288404) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Peace It's nice to know I am not the only one fed up with China. Thank y'all. |
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14 Mar 08 - 01:27 PM (#2288410) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: PoppaGator Of course Bjork had every right to utter one word, twice, as a human rights protest. I'm amazed that any of us would criticize her (and only a little less amazed at how many of us hadn't heard of her!) I'd like to say a word or two in defense of Brad Pitt, who has put not only lots of money, but also considerable time and personal effort, into rebuilding some of the most seriously devastated neighborhoods in New Orleans. His efforts have not only put roofs over the heads of many displaced families, but have also underwritten significant large-scale construction of radically "green" state-of-the-art domestic architecture. Whatever he and his wife are up to with their other interests and projects, and however much self-aggrandizement might have to do with any of this, his efforts have resulted in great objective improvements to the lives of many needy individuals and also to our community as a whole and, by extension, to the world at large, which will certainly benefit from the jump-start he's given to several forward-looking technologies. Brad and Angelina like being in New Orleans whenever their schedules allow because people here treat them like humans and generally leave them alone. We seem able to maintain a no-papparazzi zone. |
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14 Mar 08 - 01:40 PM (#2288419) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego I have no problem with the "Bully Pulpit," as described by former President Teddy Roosevelt. I also have no problem with anyone speaking their mind. I mostly follow Voltaire's approach on that one. But people in this media-driven age who have become internationally known through their acting, singing, athletic prowess or, in the case of the Paris Hiltons of the world, merely being famous for its own sake, are often taken far too seriously merely because of their notoriety. I can't read Bjork's intentions. It sounded like a spontaneous jibe at the Chinese for their known repression of human rights. If you make a public comment, you also assume the risk of responsibility for it. This goes for all the abysmally stupid public utterances of famous folk as well as for the enlightened ones. |
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14 Mar 08 - 02:03 PM (#2288432) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Sandy Mc Lean Why we all must object. Some just have a higher platform. "They came for the Communists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Communist; They came for the Socialists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Socialist; They came for the labor leaders, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a labor leader; They came for the Jews, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Jew; Then they came for me - And there was no one left to object." - Martin Niemoller, German Protestant Pastor, 1892-1984 |
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14 Mar 08 - 02:07 PM (#2288434) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice "I'm amazed that any of us would criticize her" "If you make a public comment, you also assume the risk of responsibility for it." and you leave yourself open to criticism. There are no sacred cows, you utter something in public, you take responsibility for that utterance and for gods sake know what you're talking about. Life is alot more that bumper sticker and t-shirt politics and soundbites. Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool) |
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14 Mar 08 - 02:11 PM (#2288437) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Peace Good post, Sandy. |
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14 Mar 08 - 02:13 PM (#2288440) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: skarpi Well , look at CNN right now ?? tipet is on fire "" ATB Skarpi |
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14 Mar 08 - 02:24 PM (#2288452) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: irishenglish Hmm... seems like there's not much to know about China and Tibet than, "Free Tibet." I think all of us know what we're talking about with that. |
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14 Mar 08 - 02:27 PM (#2288458) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Wesley S The CNN Story. Riots in Tibet. |
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14 Mar 08 - 02:44 PM (#2288470) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice BBC News Charlotte (keeping an eye |
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14 Mar 08 - 02:46 PM (#2288473) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,The Mole catcher's unplugged Apprentice "I think all of us know what we're talking about with that." I'm sure.... Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool) |
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14 Mar 08 - 03:10 PM (#2288492) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Stilly River Sage From chaos there are some interesting viewpoints arising. I'm glad to read about Pitt and N.O.--he has done some good work in the past, but was swept up in a global pregnancy saga that almost defied definition. |
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14 Mar 08 - 03:42 PM (#2288513) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,Neil D Why don't people say celebrities should stay out of politics when someone like Charlton Heston says some really stupid shit like America has so much gun violence because of its "ethnic diversity". I don't know of anything Brad and Angelina have done that should offend anyone. I think sometimes we get so sick of the pop media's obsession with them that we lump them in with Britney, Lindsay et al. Its not their fault the media has its head so far up their asses. I don't know anything about the Bjork in China thing other than what I read on this thread, but maybe she went to China expressly so she could sing an "unapproved" song about independence and reference Tibet. |
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14 Mar 08 - 06:43 PM (#2288654) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Richard Bridge And now the chinese are balcking our BBC news broadcast realys and internet transmissions. But the SHrub will not go to TIbet, because there is no oil. And because he is chickenshit scared of China. |
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14 Mar 08 - 10:01 PM (#2288782) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: folk1e with good reason ..... China looks like becoming one of the most powerful nations on the planet! Now if you want to have some effect look at the car you buy or the sterio / video you want next and make an informed choice. |
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15 Mar 08 - 06:21 AM (#2288936) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Dave the Gnome I play my music, Polshaw, and I don't include politics in my repetoire So you stick entirely to music topics? Never make political or confrontational statements on, erm let me see, Mudcat, for instance? Never sing songs with anything contraversial in them? Must be a wonderful life being so much holier than everyone else. :D |
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15 Mar 08 - 11:38 AM (#2289087) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice "so much holier than everyone else." nope...has nothing to do with it...it simply my choice...if the audience wants politics, there's the news holier than thou...I leave that to the experts, of which there are more than a few around Mudcat. being controversial for it's own sake is simply a pose, a photo op as it were, and serves no useful purpose at all. Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool) |
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15 Mar 08 - 01:05 PM (#2289130) Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china .... From: Dave the Gnome being controversial for it's own sake is simply a pose, a photo op as it were, and serves no useful purpose at all. Why then the confrontational way of addressing me by my surname rather than by my forename? I believe I did address you coureously even if I did disagree with your standpoint. Sorry, Charlotte, but you seem to be contradicting your own arguments here. You are quite happy to mix it and cause controversy but then complain when people in the limelight such as Bjork or Bono do the same. Is it a case of 'do as I say, not as I do'? Cheers Dave |