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17 Mar 08 - 05:17 AM (#2290361) Subject: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: GUEST,PMB In the small town of Whitwick, between Leicester on Burton-on-Trent (UK), there are two small areas (a few streets each) marked on the OS map as "City of Dan" and "City of Two Waters". I assume, given the date of the area- an early-to-mid 19th century mining town- that these are Biblical references, but I haven't found them. Anybody know where they come from, and what the original designation meant? |
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17 Mar 08 - 06:42 AM (#2290404) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: Emma B City of Dan is the easy one...... |
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17 Mar 08 - 10:40 AM (#2290560) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: GUEST,leeneia I've often wondered what kind of body of water Brits are referring to when they speak of 'Galla water' or 'Derwentwater.' A lake? Reservoir? Wetland? Whatever the answer is, look up Whitwick on GoogleEarth and see if there is a section of it with two of them. I've already looked. Don't be fooled by the quarries. |
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17 Mar 08 - 11:31 AM (#2290586) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: GUEST,Guest:John o t SC--really As these, you say, are Biblical references, the "city of two waters" may more correctly translate to 'the city between two rivers' [Tigris & Euphrates]. So perhaps the reference is to Babylon or Ninevah. John |
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17 Mar 08 - 11:49 AM (#2290598) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: GUEST Wastwater, Semerwater, Ullswater, Derwentwater.... they are all lakes. All in the north of England. I can't think of a "water" below the Anglo Saxon/ Danelaw border. Does anyone know different? Cheers Dave |
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17 Mar 08 - 12:14 PM (#2290621) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: Emma B The Anglo Saxons would probably have referred to Meres Em, posting from the forest 'de la mere' |
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17 Mar 08 - 12:26 PM (#2290626) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: GUEST,CrazyEddie Apparently Lake Windemere is the only "Lake" in the Lake District. -All of the others are "Waters". (Note, a man in a pub told me this, so it must be true.) |
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17 Mar 08 - 12:30 PM (#2290631) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: GUEST, Sminky NO! Bassenthwaite Lake is the only lake. All the others are meres or waters. |
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17 Mar 08 - 02:11 PM (#2290742) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: McGrath of Harlow It's Windermere not Lake Windermere. |
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17 Mar 08 - 03:03 PM (#2290790) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: GUEST,crazy little woman Once upon a time there were two landholders dwelling near Whitwick, brothers named William Water and Robert Water, and one day... |
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17 Mar 08 - 04:25 PM (#2290904) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: Newport Boy In Scotland, 'Water' is also a river, eg Endrick Water & Blane Water near Drymen. Wastwater, Semerwater, Ullswater, Derwentwater.... they are all lakes. All in the north of England. I can't think of a "water" below the Anglo Saxon/ Danelaw border. Does anyone know different? (Dave) Well, there's Southampton Water - the tidal inlet to the rivers Test & Itchen. Also Allcombe Water in Somerset, Alton Water (reservoir) in Suffolk, Bathesland Water (stream) in Pembrokeshire, Combe Water (stream) in Devon .... I could go on. And (tongue in cheek) there's Virginia Water! Phil |
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17 Mar 08 - 05:05 PM (#2290939) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Mere, meaning a body of water or a marsh, is often confused with mere, meaning boundary. As Macgrath points out, Lake Windermere is redundant. |
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17 Mar 08 - 05:46 PM (#2291004) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: gnomad Rutland Water is another reservoir. I think that completes the set, ~water would seem to have no fixed interpretation, except that it will be something wet B-) Lake Windermere is, as Q says, redundant (a tautology I think?) but is widely used. We seem quite fond of such usages in relation to landscape; Pendle Hill, and the several Rivers Avon spring to mind. |
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17 Mar 08 - 09:13 PM (#2291231) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: Kent Davis In the Authorized Version, there is no "city of two waters" nor does the phrase "two waters" occur. It's possible the phrase occurs in some other version but, given the date of the area, only that version seems likely to be relevant. Google turns up nothing but this thread. Kent |
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17 Mar 08 - 09:57 PM (#2291266) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: Q (Frank Staplin) "Whitwick, town, par., and township with ry Sta., Leicestershire, 5 miles E. of Ashby de la Zouch and 7 SW of Loughborough - par., 622o ac., pop. 6536; town and township, 3382 ac., pop. 3881; P. O., T. O. Whitwick dates from a remote period, and has some remains of an ancient castle of the Earls of Lancaster. The church (restored 1840) is a fine old building. The market place is spacious, and has been much improved. The mfr. of hosiery is the principal industry, coal mines are in vicinity. Whitwick township is a local government district." John Bartholomew's Gazetteer of the British Isles, 1887. http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=11371 The two names may be quite old ("dates from a remote period") and the "two waters" could be long gone (having no biblical meaning). |
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18 Mar 08 - 05:00 AM (#2291414) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: GUEST,PMB Just to confuse matters, someone has pointed out to me that it's actually "City of Three Waters". City of Dan is indeed at the northen end of the town, and I suspect the folks there might have been a bit beyond the pale as regards the rest of the townsfolk. I'd suspect the names would date from a period of widespread Biblical interest, at least for Dan- that would make it either mid 16th C, 17th C or after the Methodist revival. The buildings suggest the later dates. When was Windermere made redundant, Q? Does that mean it's on job- seekers' allowance now? Oh, and you water diviners have missed out Chasewater in on Cannock Chase, another reservoir. |
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19 Mar 08 - 11:17 PM (#2293252) Subject: RE: BS: Biblical? reference: What's the origin? From: Kent Davis The term "City of Three Waters" does not occur in the Authorized Version nor, I suspect, in any version. Here's an explanation for the name: http://www.crosbyheritage.co.uk/location/whitwick/city-of-three-waters/ Kent |