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28 Mar 08 - 05:52 PM (#2299953) Subject: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: GUEST,Alexis You know the first verse of the Oggy Man - I went through the gateway and I heard the seargent say Big boys are a coming, see their stands along the way Well what does it mean? I reckon the first bit is when your man joins up, but dont understand about big boys and stands |
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28 Mar 08 - 05:58 PM (#2299956) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: John MacKenzie I assumed it meant bigger hot food stalls, which would put the old Oggie Man out of business. G |
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28 Mar 08 - 05:59 PM (#2299958) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Folkiedave I have always understood this to be the story. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/cyriltawney/depth.htm#oggie |
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28 Mar 08 - 07:06 PM (#2300005) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Joybell Yes --- that's how the Grand Bard of Cornwall explained it to me when I asked. I just had to mention him. Such a wonderful man -- my 5th cousin. He's dead now. I had the chance to sing for him, talk songs with him, as well as hear him when he visited Australia. Cheers, Joy |
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28 Mar 08 - 08:40 PM (#2300071) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Sugwash I believe that the 'Big Boys' refers to large warships i.e. battle ships and carriers. The 'stands along the way' being the prepared areas of dockside to take these large surface vessels. |
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28 Mar 08 - 09:18 PM (#2300086) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Charley Noble I agree with Sugwash. It's the bigger ships. Charley Noble |
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28 Mar 08 - 10:05 PM (#2300118) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Ross Campbell Sorry, Sugwash and Charley, you should have read the link above. Folkiedave and Giok have it right. This was one of the first of Cyril's songs I ever heard, sung by a Scottish a capella trio in the Glasgow Folk Centre in about 1968. Brian Miller explained the background to the song in much the same terms as Cyril himself did, ie that the guy selling Cornish pasties found himself eased off his patch by aggressively-priced competition from hot-dog and hamburger stands - "stands" being the kind of coster's barrow that such traders would use before the advent of vans. "Stand" also refers to the station on the street where such selling would be permitted. By the dockyard gate would be a prime spot, with hundreds of customers regularly in and out. At that time, the hot-dog and hamburger men could even have been gang-related - the "big boys" would ensure that any attempt by the oggie man to hold his place couldn't last long. Ross |
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28 Mar 08 - 10:07 PM (#2300119) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Gurney Nope. I was a member of Cyril's club for a couple of years, and I asked, and he said it was the more organised vendors whose competition broke the one-man-band Oggie Man. He also pointed out that the song was a warning that nothing lasts forever, as witness the gateway ("He came through the gateway...") had also been pulled down. If memory serves, it was called the Royal Albert Gate at Devonport Dockyard. Demolished about 1970-71. |
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28 Mar 08 - 10:13 PM (#2300124) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Charley Noble Ugh! It's not nice to have to recalibrate one's understanding of a song after so many years. But thanks! Charley Noble |
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29 Mar 08 - 12:24 AM (#2300169) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: GUEST As Freud said,"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" |
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29 Mar 08 - 03:25 AM (#2300191) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Little Robyn Nowadays it's KFC or MacDonald's. Change happens! Robyn |
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29 Mar 08 - 06:36 AM (#2300244) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Joybell, Your fifth cousin would have been John Bolitho, then. A real gentleman and a pleasure to have known him. John would have had an interest in Cyril Tawney's lyrics in general, having been an ex-Royal Navy man himself, but also in this song in particular because of the reference to oggies. I only heard of John's death some months after the event. By chance, there was an article in a Cornish newspaper about a Gorsedd Kernow event, and there was mention of, I think, Rod Lyon having had to take over as Grand Bard on John's death. I know John had attended Kernow Lowender in Australia during his year of office. Happy memories of 'walking' a young lady home, John on one side, me on the other, singing the Helston Furry Dance tune because it was the only thing that would keep her legs moving! Lhiats, Bobby Bob |
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30 Mar 08 - 03:35 AM (#2300901) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Alexis Thanks guys. I had half the tale, but the first bit is now crystal clear Alex |
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05 Aug 08 - 01:23 PM (#2405835) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: GUEST,Rosemary Tawney The full info. re "The Oggie Man" taken from Cyril's extended notes is on the "Tawney in Depth" page of his website www.cyriltawney.co.uk Rosemary |
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05 Aug 08 - 01:56 PM (#2405863) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Alexis Thank you Rosemary, I shall, no doubt, enjoy looking it up. Alex |
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05 Aug 08 - 02:50 PM (#2405907) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Art Thieme Yes, it's definitely about seminal influence, quite sexual; and the stand-up effects of Viagra too. Cyril had Nostradamus' views into the future beat by several inches. art |
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05 Aug 08 - 02:55 PM (#2405912) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Art Thieme Joy, Hello to you -- and Greg too! Art |
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05 Aug 08 - 04:13 PM (#2405970) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Schantieman John Bolitho - an ancestor, if I remember correctly, of Richard Bolitho, fictional Naval Officer of the 18th/19th century, as created by Alexander Kent. Or maybe he just used the Cornish name.... Steve |
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21 Sep 09 - 04:23 PM (#2728305) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: GUEST,Dram 48red I've known this song for years and as an ex-sailor knew what the lyrics meant. However, I cannot get the guitar chords for the song. Can anyone help me. Thank you. |
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21 Sep 09 - 06:37 PM (#2728410) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: breezy I can , but its late now , maybe try again later or next week, but for now Start ona D chord Thumb the 4th string count 1 and pluck 1st 2nd 3rd simultaneouslt count 2 fairly rapidly, in fact fast to give a droning effect, sing slow 'D' The rain's [change to 'A'] softly [change to'D'] falling and the ' G' oggie man's no 'D' more next 2 lines similar then Bm to D x 2 x 2 repeat 1ast line as 1st good night, its easy really |
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21 Sep 09 - 10:15 PM (#2728534) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: MGM·Lion Just for interest: Fred Woods in Folk Review ih the 1970s used to run competitions, like limericks or clerihews summarising the plots of ballads. One was to produce the shortest-ever folksong on the lines of "The Gallant Frigate 'Amphitryte', She sank in Plymouth Sound". One of the winners, I recall, was "The sun is shining, And the oggie-man's still there". |
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22 Sep 09 - 05:15 AM (#2728641) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Dave Hanson And from the Book of Curtailed Folksongs, ' Are you going to Scarborough Fair ? no ' Dave H |
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22 Sep 09 - 07:14 AM (#2728683) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: GUEST,Black Belt Caterpillar Wrestler Come hangman slack your ..erk!! |
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22 Sep 09 - 07:24 AM (#2728686) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Terry McDonald It's not the done thing, to have it away with the King, Said Mary as she dangled on the end of a string. |
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22 Sep 09 - 07:30 AM (#2728689) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Brian Peters >> "The Gallant Frigate 'Amphitryte', She sank in Plymouth Sound" << The one I heard was "The gallant frigate Araldite, she stuck in Plymouth Sound". Apologies for further hi-jack of the great man's thread. |
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22 Sep 09 - 09:02 AM (#2728738) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: breezy What shall we do? The drunken sailor |
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22 Sep 09 - 12:09 PM (#2728892) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: MGM·Lion Terry McDonald's of 0724 above is, I am sure, a curtailed (in turn) version of one of my 15 winning entries to the ballad·summarised·as·limerick competition,Folk Review November 1972, which ran, ""It wasn't a sensible thing To have it away with the king," Said Mary so sadly As she jerked about madly And twitched on the end of a string" . Agreed? I feel as if I have been collected from tradition, or something! Sorry all — didn't mean to drift the thread like this: at least mine was about the song under discussion... |
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22 Sep 09 - 12:13 PM (#2728898) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: Terry McDonald Mike - I'm sure you're correct. I remembered it from a magazine in the early 70s but have obviously made some unconcious changes to it! |
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22 Sep 09 - 12:30 PM (#2728915) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: MGM·Lion Wow, thanks Terry - what a compliment to have it remembered after all these years. You have made my day! - Michael |
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22 Sep 09 - 01:12 PM (#2728943) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: The Sandman Oh where have you been Lord Randall, my son. nowhere. what a shame Gordon Hall didnt learn that version. |
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23 Sep 09 - 06:15 AM (#2729442) Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean? From: bubblyrat Hello Rosemary !! Nice to know you're still going strong ! I remember writing to you from HMS Eagle in 1968 or thereabouts to ask for the words to some song (can't remember which one !) But I do remember many comings and goings to and from our berth near the Non -Tidal Basin,via St Levan's Gate in Devonport Dockyard----very handy for The Avondale,and,of course, "Frank's" wonderful Oggie-shop,where one could purchase an "Oggie Special" or a "Chiefs' and POs". "All Gone" now, I suppose ??? Like the Royal Naval School of Dancing & the Palace Long Bar in Union Street ? Those were the days !! |