'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')

20 Jun 08 - 10:37 PM (#2371184)
Subject: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: SeaCanary

About 4 years ago I'm sitting around listening to a bunch of fife players and a crowd of "ancient" drummers jamming (It's a long story.). When all of a sudden my friend sitting next to me says, "Listen!! They're playing 'Whip Jamboree!!!' "

Instantly I'm on my feet and says I to a fifer, "What's the name of that tune you played that sounds like this?" and I hum "Whip Jamboree."

"Oh that's 'The Peacock' ." she says.

"Is it old?" I ask.

"I dunno." says she.

"Does it date back to the American Revolution?" I pursue.

"O, yeah. Definitely!!" she replies.

So here I am, 4 years later, trying to track down what music book this MIGHT be in and having no luck at all even though I've asked a forum specifically set up for fife and drum enthusiasts.

Can anybody please help me with this?

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21 Jun 08 - 07:35 AM (#2371309)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock
From: SeaCanary

A worthy effort, Gargoyle, and -- obviously -- one I wouldn't have thought of on my own, but it's not what I remember hearing.

Thanks for the thought and the effort.

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21 Jun 08 - 06:10 PM (#2371639)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock
From: SeaCanary

Yeah, that was in a different context. I'm thinking about performing the "Hornet and the Peacock" ($deity$ help me.). I listened to the tune and didn't even consider it close.

Now I know that people can track where I've been.

$deity$ help me...

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22 Jun 08 - 12:16 PM (#2371908)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock
From: Malcolm Douglas

There are a number of tunes called 'The Peacock' or variations thereon. One, current under that name in the later 18th century throughout Britain and Ireland, begins in much the same fashion as 'Whip Jamboree'. It was later used for the Scottish song 'Goodnight and Joy Be Wi Ye A', which in turn (though much later) became popular in Ireland as 'The Parting Glass'.

Whether it's the fife-and-drum tune you heard I wouldn't know, but you might have a look at the Early American Secular Music and Its European Sources website, which lists one or more 'Peacock' tunes (the incipits differ, so more than one may be involved) with references to two sets of late 18th century drum notation.

Text Index: PEA

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22 Jun 08 - 01:04 PM (#2371945)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Marc Bernier

Where are you from that you listen to Fife and Drum SeaCanary? Whup or (Whip) Jamboree is a very common tune amongst Fifers and Drummers in the Northeastern US. It does not however date to the 18th century. The tune popular amongst the fife and drum community enters to repertoire during the Mid to late 1930's via a Drum Corps from New York named the Sons of Liberty, and it is a march setting of the Chanty of the same name. Being a chanty it certainly does not date to the period of the American Revolution, and I'v never heard of anyone playing it on fife before the Sons of Liberty. I could give you the full story if your interested. As for calling Whup' the Peacock, I'v never heard anyone do that. What F&D forum did you go to? Did they have any information?

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22 Jun 08 - 03:30 PM (#2372032)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: GUEST,doc.tom

There seem to be two distinct versions of Whip Jamboree - which one are we talking about?

Cecil Sharp, introducing John Short's version (later adopted by the Spinners), says of it: "I know of no other version of this chantey except one, in the major mode, given me by Mr. George Conway. The tune, which is in the æolian mode, is a variant of Santy Anna. In its construction, and to some extent in the character of its words, the chantey is akin to Spanish Ladies (Folk Songs from Somerset, No. 124). The words of the chorus show negro influence.

Whall gives the other version, and says: ""Jamboree" also was originally a nigger minstrel song, altered by the seaman to suit himself."

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22 Jun 08 - 04:44 PM (#2372083)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock
From: SeaCanary

Malcolm Douglas -- I'll rummage around on Early American Secular Music and Its European Sources and see what I can find. Much obliged.

Marc Bernier -- I'm from Silver Spring, Maryland. It wasn't so much an F&D forum as an aprés performance party. We had sung our little hearts out in Chestertown, Maryland. Afterwards there was a dance, bar-b-queue, jam session at someone-or-others home nearby and that's where I heard it and first came into contact with "Ancient Drummers." (I'm still not quite clear what they are all about, but they are a happy bunch of cigar chomping, beer drinking musicians and <$deity$> knows there's never enough of THEM to go around.) There were quite a few F&D musicians. I had to sit off a little ways so I could converse with people. That was okay, though. It was a beautiful day on the eastern shore and you couldn't beat the fellowship.

doc.tom -- Yeah, there certainly are a number of versions floating around. The version I heard is pretty much like this one <http://www.mudcat.org/media/WHIPJAMB.MID>.

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22 Jun 08 - 08:03 PM (#2372193)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Marc Bernier

AH. Geographically that gives me an explanation for the title, which I unfortunately would rather not put in writing. The short answer is the tune they where playing was in fact most likely Whup Jamboree, the title you were given, The Peacock, I would venture to guess came into usage in that part of the country about 30-35 years ago. A young fifer could very well be only familiar with that title and assume 18th century origin.

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23 Jun 08 - 10:18 AM (#2372487)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Jacob B

Marc, I'm very curious why you said, "Being a chanty it certainly does not date to the period of the American Revolution." Surely sea chanties were in use all through the age of sail, weren't they?

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23 Jun 08 - 12:29 PM (#2372570)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Marc Bernier

Jacob B, It is largely accepted by scholars that the art of chantying started to develop in the early days of the 19th Century, 1815-1819, with the beginning of the packet trades. The large Naval wars of the late 18th early 19th century winding down, there was a fast growth in merchant shipping. Ships quickly growing larger and crews smaller the chanty developed. 18th century references to sailors singing at work are very rare.

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23 Jun 08 - 05:40 PM (#2372782)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Marc Bernier

??????????

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23 Jun 08 - 06:14 PM (#2372799)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Richard Bridge

Nice piece of thinking Garg. If the word "jamboree" does not predate 1864 then the song substantially postdates the revolution in America.

Depending on the words sung (there are various) one could play that game over and over. The Lizard Light was I think completed in 1619 so that drops back in time.

Ships going to Liverpool would not have needed the Lizard Light whereas London ships would.

Over to real historians.

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23 Jun 08 - 06:18 PM (#2372803)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Richard Bridge

PS, I feel the spelling "chantey" pretentious and faux-folklorique - but I might be wrong.

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24 Jun 08 - 03:52 AM (#2373045)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Snuffy

It all depends which side of the pond you're sitting.

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24 Jun 08 - 07:22 AM (#2373124)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Marc Bernier

You mean with the 'e' as opposed to chanty? I don't understand.

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24 Jun 08 - 07:52 AM (#2373136)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Keith A of Hertford

We say,"shanty" over here.

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24 Jun 08 - 08:20 AM (#2373153)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Marc Bernier

It's always been my understanding that it's spelled with a CH in the states and an SH in the UK. No?

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24 Jun 08 - 11:38 AM (#2373292)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Barry Finn

Doerflinger says shanty
Colcord says chantey
Harlow says chantey
Hugill says shanty
Shay says chanty & shanty
C F Smith says shanty
Huntington says chanty
Terry says shanty
Whall says shanty
Beckett says shanty
Bradford says chanty
Broadwood says chanty
Villiers says shanty
Masefield says shanty
Bone says chantey
Carpenter says chantey
Davis & Tozer say chantey
Farnsworth & Sharp say chantey
Charles says chantey
Frothingham says chantey
Finger says chantey
Hutchison says chantey
King says chantey
Adams says shanty
Rowley says shanty
Sampson says shanty
Toye says chantey
Trevine says chantey
Whitehead says shanty


13 shanties to 17 chanteys what's your pleasure
I'm not gonna get into who comes from where

now the chit's really gonna fly
Bye-bye

Barry

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24 Jun 08 - 01:05 PM (#2373369)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Snuffy

Abandon chip!

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24 Jun 08 - 03:48 PM (#2373474)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Marc Bernier

WOW Barry! How long did it take you to compile that? I know where most of them are from all ready.

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24 Jun 08 - 04:14 PM (#2373493)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Mr Happy

Ink Spots say Shanty:http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DM84xNa6ar0

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24 Jun 08 - 04:15 PM (#2373495)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Mr Happy

.........also the Kingston Trio did a song called 'Santiano' with the 'Jamboree' tune.

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25 Jun 08 - 02:34 AM (#2373795)
Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Whip Jamboree' (a.k.a. 'The Peacock')
From: Barry Finn

Not long at all, I looked up at my bookshelf Mark, had a good few there already





then I cheated, after that I looked at Hugill's bibliography.


Barry

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