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24 Jun 08 - 06:21 AM (#2373092) Subject: Welsh songs mystery From: Mick Tems I received an email the other day from EMI in Australia, which completely flummoxed me. It's about the history of two Welsh songs, and I quote: "1. Dyna Ti Yn Eistedd (Rough English translation: "There You Are Sitting") - We are looking for the history regarding this song, who wrote it and when and who recorded it first. Anything you advise us with in details. We have the recording for this and I understand this song is some how connected to the song listed below. 2. "Wele ti'n eistedd aderyn du?" (Rough English translation: "See you there, that blackbird sitting?" We need the sound recording for this and we are also looking for history regarding this song, who wrote it and when and who recorded it... Would you please help?" |
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24 Jun 08 - 07:11 AM (#2373114) Subject: RE: Welsh songs mystery From: greg stephens Is this possibly a reference to a Welsh version of "Yonder blackbird, where be'ee?" |
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07 Jul 08 - 09:47 AM (#2382945) Subject: RE: Welsh songs mystery From: sian, west wales It's been 'doing the rounds' for some time, Mick. I think there's some law suit trying to be set up in Australia - someone claiming copyright on "Kookabura Sits in the Old Gum Tree" (sorry if K... spelt incorrectly!) and hence all associated versions in any possible language. I think I wrote back once and said that Welsh versions (e.g. the two you name which are really the same words with slight variations) exist but I knew nothing more. I can make a bit of a guess who wrote the Welsh but I don't feel inclined to provide the info ... and it's only a guess after all. sian |
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07 Jul 08 - 09:50 AM (#2382950) Subject: RE: Welsh songs mystery From: Mr Happy You could try an email to Les Barker, who's now so fluent in the lingua de Pays de Galles, that he could prob provide you with sought info. |
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14 Jul 08 - 07:56 PM (#2389146) Subject: RE:Wele ti'n eistedd aderyn du From: tune searcher |
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15 Jul 08 - 03:43 AM (#2389342) Subject: RE: Welsh songs mystery From: Jim Carroll Not what you are looking for, but I wonder if the blackbird reference links the second song to this one which was recorded by the BBC in 1954 and can be found in The Vaughan Williams Memorial Library at C# House. Good luck, Jim Carroll CAN YR ABERYN DU (The song of the blackbird) Singer: Tom Edwards. Bryneglwys, Corwen, Denbighshire. 9.11.54 (P.K.) 'Y deryn du sy'n rhodio'r gwledydd/Ti a wyr yr hen a'r newydd' ('Blackbird that roamest the countries, /Thou knowest the old and the new...'). Ballad in the form of a conversation between a love-sick swain and the blackbird. The bird offers the young man the rich widow, the daughter of the inn-keeper and the sempstress. He rejects them all in turn, but joyfully accepts the farmer's daughter. A good rendering of one of the variants of the 'Deryn Du' (Blackbird) songs which became very popular throughout the whole of North and South Wales, but which are sung to different tunes in different districts. These songs have beautiful tunes and lyrics. See: Journal of the Welsh Folk Song Society Vol. I, Part 3, pp. 123-5. |
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15 Jul 08 - 04:40 AM (#2389372) Subject: RE: Welsh songs mystery From: sian, west wales No, the email definitely refers to the Kookabura song; I received it myself a couple of years ago, and Dr Meredydd Evans contacted me more recently because he's received it as well. I've been told that it's got something to do with a law suit in Australia ... which is the point where I back off. Don't want to get entangled in anything like that. There are a great many references to blackbirds, and other birds, in Welsh folk verses and songs. Apparently there is even a traceable history of the actual bird changing over the centuries. Susi George was researching this before she passed away; she told me that blackbirds were relative newcomers to love songs, and then went on to talk about older songs with magpies, owls, etc. She was working on an album of this material when she left us. (((sigh))) sian |
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15 Jul 08 - 11:13 AM (#2389643) Subject: RE: Welsh songs mystery From: GUEST,In My Humble Opinion EMI at the moment is up that creek without that paddle, and getting yourself involved in anything to do with them is extremely dodgy at best, I'd definitely steer clear if I were you. |
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15 Jul 08 - 06:54 PM (#2390200) Subject: RE: Welsh songs mystery From: Nerd Dafydd ap Gwilym had a poem about a seagull acting as messenger between the lovesick swain and his isolated sweetheart--so the idea has been in Wales for a long time, and any bird will do, really! In French songs it's the "rossignolet sauvage," while English and Scots sing "if I were a blackbird." The Wikipedia article on the Kookaburra song, here, suggests the basis of the lawsuit: it seems the Welsh song, whose words predate "Kookaburra," may have adopted the (copyright-protected) "Kookaburra" tune. If so, I'd say that recordings of the Welsh song using that tune are indeed in violation of copyright. Whether one cares or not is a different question--I can respect both viewpoints. |
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16 Jul 08 - 06:46 AM (#2390449) Subject: RE: Welsh songs mystery From: manitas_at_work There's a mudcat thread here thread.cfm?threadid=90351 |