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08 Sep 08 - 03:00 PM (#2434380) Subject: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: emjay I don't think I ever heard what specific books she wanted banned but I remember the talk. I guess the national media is also interested in what books might be banned. A few years ago, my friend and pastor, Howard Bess, wrote a book called, Pastor I Am Gay. It was about gays, lesbians in the church and the churches' condemnation of them. He wrote specifically to say why he sees the church approach as wrong and harmful. The book was immediately banned in the local "Christian" book stores and of course there was publicity. Someone, somewhere learned about this story and picked up on it and Saturday a crew from ABC news was here in Palmer, Alaska (next door to Palin's hometown, Wasilla). They spent several hours with Howard Bess, interviewing him for Good Morning, America. Sunday a cameraman and a sound tech were at the church service filming some more. It is to be on Good Morning, America, tomorrow, September 9. I have no idea what they talked about with Bess, but it will surely provide a different, and somewhat less reactionary view of some of us in Alaska. (I always took a special interest in the book since I painted the cover picture.) |
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08 Sep 08 - 03:07 PM (#2434384) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Amos Eanjay: As a near-by resident, what are your impressions of Sarah? Is she "beloved"? Feared? Somewhere in between? Is Annie Kinney's now-widely-circulated email generally correct? Did the librarian in question (who nearly lost her job when she resisted) ever spwecify which books Sarah was on about? A |
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08 Sep 08 - 03:16 PM (#2434396) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: emjay A lot of people here do like the Governor. She followed one who was so unpopular it would have been hard for her to look bad. She did sell the jet, not on Ebay as was reported and at a loss. Selling it was probably a good thing, though. She has had a reputation since High School of getting her own way, of pushing hard until she did. The only fear of her, so far as I know, is the fear that people will overlook her ultra-right wing politics because she is so "hot." Anne Kilkenny's letter is very accurate so far as I know. I think she made her statements carefully and as free from her personal bias as she was able. Anne is intelligent and follows politics, locally and nationally, very carefully. I don't think the librarian every specified which books if Palin even let her know. There were a number of firings when Palin first took the office of mayor of Wasilla. I read about it all, but can't pretend to remember details enough to report them. Fortunately Kilkenny did a lot of that. MJ |
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08 Sep 08 - 03:19 PM (#2434398) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC This page doesn't say which books she wanted to ban, but it says that the most commonly challenged books are The Chocolate War, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, To Kill a Mockingbird, and the Harry Potter series. http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2008/09/06/banned-books-week-in-alaska/ |
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08 Sep 08 - 03:22 PM (#2434399) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage This came through just now on a Native American Literature discussion list. I had to strip out some bin hex code of some sort, so I hope I didn't miss any:
[Former Wasilla mayor] Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. She asked the library how she could go about banning books, he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. The librarian was aghast. The librarian, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire her for not giving full support to the mayor. Mary Ellen Baker resigned from her library director job in 1999.
I'll have to search Time and see if there's more to the story.
List of books removed at SRS's request |
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08 Sep 08 - 03:22 PM (#2434400) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace The original poster is EMjay, not EANjay. fyi |
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08 Sep 08 - 03:26 PM (#2434402) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC In The Night Kitchen!!! LOL ( ...that's because his little pee pee was showing) |
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08 Sep 08 - 03:26 PM (#2434403) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC Yes, we definitely need this woman as our president. |
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08 Sep 08 - 03:33 PM (#2434409) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: emjay Wow! What a list! Many of those books are in my own library. About that time, we did have a Celebrate Banned Books week of month, and local libraries did have displays of books banned in many places. We did make a point of including some in our church library. It's too small to have all of them. Thanks for posting the list. It is important. MJ |
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08 Sep 08 - 03:39 PM (#2434412) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Richard Bridge I have no love for Republicans and less respect but that list beggars belief. |
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08 Sep 08 - 03:43 PM (#2434417) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Hold on - you are circulating an internet rumor that apparently is not true. First clue - there are books on the list, specifically Harry Potter, that were not even written when this story supposedly occured. The story took place in 1996, the first Harry Potter book was printed in 1997. Second clue - the posted article above does not appear in Time Magazine. According to actual newspaper stories of the time, she did indeed ask the question of the librarian - on three separate occasions. The librarian said that she would not do it. She ended up being fired... but later was rehired because the librarian was very popular. Was it Palin's intent to ban books, or was this some sort of test? We will never know. I do not trust Palin, I do not want to see her anywhere near the Executive Office - even on a tour of the White House. At the same time, I do not like to see rumors and lies spread because it only makes us look bad. |
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08 Sep 08 - 03:52 PM (#2434426) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Donuel Thats a bigger list than I had imagined. There would be more if the library had many books. At least she believes in creationism and knows that evolution is just a theory and that global warming is natural and certainly not man made. DRILL DRILL DRILL BABY and kill those polar bears. |
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08 Sep 08 - 03:57 PM (#2434432) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: emjay I went to the Time website and couldn't find any list. Perhaps this is a list of books that are frequently on lists of books to be banned. |
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08 Sep 08 - 04:01 PM (#2434438) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Bee Ron is right. I'm certainly curious about what books she may have wanted to ban, but that list is not gonna fly - besides: My Friend Flicka!?! Any reference I've seen so far says she asked the librarian how one would go about banning them. If she's such a smart, cagey cookie, she likely never let anyone get hold of a written down list, as even the dumbest idjit would be aware that banning books is generally frowned on and attempts to do so have ended up in court on numerous occasions. As far as I can tell, the woman is intelligent. Someone over at Pharyngula (an Obama supporter) went so far as to read her college thesis or papers, and said whatever else you can say, the papers were well written and the material intelligently presented and discussed. It doesn't do to assume people are stupid just because you violently disagree with them. |
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08 Sep 08 - 04:01 PM (#2434439) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko yep |
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08 Sep 08 - 04:04 PM (#2434441) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Q (Frank Staplin) The "list" is nonsense. Apparently a request about banning was made, but no specific list. Harry Potter would be on my list, but I can't think of others at the moment (did Lew Dobbs write one?). |
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08 Sep 08 - 04:50 PM (#2434503) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage It was quite a comprehensive list, but sent by someone who usually researches these thing before she sends them. Let's try a Google on some of the text and see what turns up. . . SRS |
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08 Sep 08 - 04:54 PM (#2434505) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko That has been done SRS - as mentioned previously, the list is a hoax. |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:02 PM (#2434513) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage Here is the Time magazine article. There is no list. Someone cobbled that on--perhaps a general banned book list from ALA. Mayor Palin: A Rough Record John McCain was clear about why he picked half-term Alaska governor Sarah Palin to be his running mate. "I found someone with an outstanding reputation for standing up to special interests and entrenched bureaucracies," he said in introducing her in Dayton, Ohio, on Friday. Palin was someone, he noted, "who reached across the aisle and asked Republicans, Democrats and independents to serve in government." It is a powerful reinforcement of McCain's own political brand: tough, reform-minded, willing to break with his own party for the right cause. And it's true that her high-profile crusade against corruption and complacency in her own state party over the past few years has made Palin the Frank Serpico of Alaska politics: she publicly ratted out her state party chairman; whupped the good old boys' network, as she likes to put it, in a gubernatorial primary; and fought a general election in which the scandal-stained state GOP didn't lift a finger on her behalf. She won only because she had the enthusiastic backing of independents and grass-roots activists. [snip] One thing all sides agree on is that the valley was in flux. The old libertarian pioneer ethos was giving way to a rising Christian conservatism. By shrewdly invoking issues that mattered to the ascendant majority, Palin won the mayor's race. But while she may have been a new face, says Naegele, she was no maverick — not yet. "The state party gave her the mechanism to get into that office," says Naegele. "As soon as she was confident enough to brush them off, she did. But she wasn't an outsider to start with. She very much had to kowtow to them." Governing was no less contentious than campaigning, at least to begin with. Palin ended up dismissing almost all the city department heads who had been loyal to Stein, including a few who had been instrumental in getting her into politics to begin with. Some saw it as a betrayal. Stambaugh, the police chief and a member of Palin's step-aerobics class, filed a lawsuit for wrongful termination, alleging that Palin terminated him in part at the behest of the National Rifle Association, because he had opposed a concealed-gun law that the NRA supported. He eventually lost the suit. The animosity spawned some talk of a recall attempt, but eventually Palin's opponents in the city council opted for a more conciliatory route. At some point in those fractious first days, Palin told the department heads they needed her permission to talk to reporters. "She put a gag order on those people, something that you'd expect to find in the big city, not here," says Naegele. "She flew in there like a big-city gal, which she's not. It was a strange time, and [the Frontiersman] came out very harshly against her." Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor. [snip] By the time Sarah Palin was entering state politics, the hottest issue in Alaska wasn't gay marriage or even abortion. It was corruption and cronyism. Andrew Halcro, a noted Palin critic who ran against her as an independent in the governor's race, says she knew instinctively that the issues were changing. Plus, he says, her opponents, such as incumbent governor Frank Murkowski, whom she defeated in the primary, were just as hard-right on abortion and guns as she was. She needed a new political identity to make it to the next level, so ethics reform became her calling card. "She's a very savvy politician," says Halcro. "So wedge issues were not part of the portfolio." "If anything," he says, "she got tired of answering questions about them." Halcro recalls one debate in October 2006 in which, after repeated questions about her opposition to abortion even in cases of rape or incest, she looked at the moderator with exasperation and asked if they were going to talk about anything besides abortion. It was detracting from her new message: cleaning up the capitol. |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:03 PM (#2434515) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage The list isn't a hoax, Ron, it's genuine--those are books that various places have tried to ban. We run a list like that in the library where I work in September during Banned Book Week. The attachment of it to a snip from the article is the "hoax." SRS |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:05 PM (#2434516) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage Frequently challenged books. You can poke around in the ALA site for yourself. SRS |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:13 PM (#2434524) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage Here is a level-headed librarian discussing the matter and includes a link to the news that Mary Ellen Baker resigned, but no information about why. She also says there appears to be no truth to the claim about the list, and I agree with her, I've scanned the sources and don't see a credible source for it. Too bad. But Palin's list might still turn up. They're keeping Palin away from reporters until they promise to ask only fluff questions, so we're not liable to hear a word from her. Maybe Ms. Baker kept notes from that meeting. SRS |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:14 PM (#2434525) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "The list isn't a hoax, Ron, it's genuine--those are books that various places have tried to ban." SRS - I don't think you read the previous posts in this thread. I realize that those books have been banned, as I said previously, the list is a hoax in conjunction with the Palin story. By all evidence that has shown up, there never was a list in this case. No one is denying that book banning hasn't occured, but that is off topic of this discussion. |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:14 PM (#2434526) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace I have read at least 35 of those books and other than her good choice of getting rid of "The Handmaid's Tale" (because Atwood makes me want to chew my leg off to get away--yes, I know she's Canadian), I would have them at my place if I still had books. Gave them all away to the share shop, public library and school librAry. Heaven forfend. I have taught literature to various grades using about ten of those books. If that woman really tried to get them bamnned, then she is not only an idiot, she's also a dangerous idiot. I thought America was just getting rid of one of them! |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:17 PM (#2434529) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: SINSULL But Palin is not known to have asked to ban any or all of that list. It cannot be assumed that she was asking for these books to be banned. SINS |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:18 PM (#2434530) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "If that woman really tried to get them bamnned, then she is not only an idiot, she's also a dangerous idiot. I thought America was just getting rid of one of them! " I'm not sure if people are justing posting without reading, but this is how rumors start. It is more dangerous to accuse someone of something that they did not do, and that will only hurt Obama's chances. THIS STORY IS NOT TRUE... SHE DID NOT HAVE A LIST OF BANNED BOOKS. She did ask the question, but there is no evidence of having requested books to be banned and we do not have proof of what her intention was when she asked the question. I've read rhetorical remarks here on Mudcat, but I would not accuse the writer of believing them. I think Palin is dangerous for this country, but we can be just as dangerous by perpetuating false "lists". |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:19 PM (#2434531) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Beer I just went to Snopes .com and they say the claim is false. Is Snopes reliable? Beer (adrien) |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:20 PM (#2434533) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko If the list were true, then the woman is amazing and I will vote for her. Imagine someone that could see into the future and tell us about Harry Potter before the books were written. Just think of how she could prevent wars if she has those powers!!!!! |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:21 PM (#2434535) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "I just went to Snopes .com and they say the claim is false. Is Snopes reliable?" Only as reliable as the research. Check the facts and make your own decision. |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:30 PM (#2434543) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Riginslinger "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn," I think it is Civil Rights groups who most often want to ban this book. |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:36 PM (#2434549) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Bat Goddess Thanks, Stilly, for the ALA website, which I haven't checked out until now because I've been too busy. And what did I find there? That Lois Lowry, who I knew in the '70s, is the 7th most challenged author in 2007. And she writes wonderful, witty, caring and thought-provoking books. Heaven forbid a young adult should actually THINK, eh? What a world! Linn |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:52 PM (#2434564) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace Ladies and gentlemen, I said 'if'. The citizens of the US and indeed the rest of the planet have been fed lotsa lies for over seven years. Fabricating stuff to 'defeat' her is wrong on two points: 1) it's McCain who is running and she who is the add on 2) She will drop the ball before November 4. With a big loud bang |
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08 Sep 08 - 05:53 PM (#2434566) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage SRS - I don't think you read the previous posts in this thread. I read it. You made it sound like the list was bogus. So I corrected you. |
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08 Sep 08 - 06:08 PM (#2434578) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage http://www.ajc.com/ajccars/content/news/stories/2008/09/05/palin_book_banning.html Atlanta Journal-Constitution story, posted by the person who mistakenly posted the list I picked up. Her mea culpa included some research. ;-) SRS |
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08 Sep 08 - 06:20 PM (#2434595) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Amos The MLIF and the Museum as a side note. One source says the book list comes from this site which is generic, not specific to Palin. A |
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08 Sep 08 - 06:30 PM (#2434602) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Bee "I have read at least 35 of those books and other than her good choice of getting rid of "The Handmaid's Tale" (because Atwood makes me want to chew my leg off to get away--yes, I know she's Canadian), I would have them at my place if I still had books. Gave them all away to the share shop, public library and school librAry. Heaven forfend." - Peace I giggled. Myself, I'm very fond of Atwood's prose, but while I know lots of women who read all her books, I don't think I've met even one man who does. There must be a few men who do, somewhere. I suspect the 'chew my leg off to get away' reaction has something to do with the horror of discovering that many women have a subset of thought processes that are wholly alien to the way most men cogitate on their experiences. ;-D |
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08 Sep 08 - 06:36 PM (#2434609) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: pdq "It is more dangerous to accuse someone of something that they did not do, and that will only hurt Obama's chances." Yes, this entire thread is based on the intentional repeating of hateful lies. No accident at all. Another example of professionally-written slime. The Democrats are in danger of losing all credibility when they pull this type of shit. They are hitting as hard at McCain and Palin as they have George W. Bush for the last 8 years. When the public starts to believe that the hate is due to the "R" after people's names and not based in any way on real sins, the Democrats will not win another election for a generation. |
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08 Sep 08 - 06:40 PM (#2434613) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "You made it sound like the list was bogus." This list is bogus in connection with this story, which is what this thread was about. PDQ's point is well taken - we end up being cast as unthinking lemmings instead of making sound choices. There is a lot to distrust about McCain and Palin. I am scared that she might promote the banning of books, but we cannot pass judgement without facts. |
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08 Sep 08 - 06:51 PM (#2434624) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Amos PDQ: You may not think the proposal of book banning from public libraries is a very big issue. But the fact is, Palin proposed it as a course of action she was considering. Which tells you that she would consider such a course of action. WHich in turn, directly implies that she is ready to be a dictatrix on moral grounds, in direct contradiction to the spirit and letter of the Constitution and Declaration. Maybe she should study Constitutional law to become better qualified for the position. A |
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08 Sep 08 - 06:52 PM (#2434625) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC Considering the vicious nature of the kinds of lies that McCain supporters have been spreading about Obama for months now, I don't think McCain supporters are in any position to be pointing fingers about that sort of thing. And if the Democrats could lose credibility because some of their supporters have spread a rumor that wasn't true, then that would mean that the Republicans lost their credibility a long time ago. |
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08 Sep 08 - 06:55 PM (#2434630) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Sorcha OK, so does ANYBODY have ANY REAL evidence that she ever ACTUALLY BANNED any books? I do NOT agree with her stated policies, but this character assaination and outright LIES is truly below the belt. I think it WILL backfire. |
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08 Sep 08 - 06:57 PM (#2434635) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC Please read the thread. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:01 PM (#2434638) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: artbrooks In the For What It's Worth department, I was browsing on FactCheck.com earlier today and, in an article about bogus chain e-mails, they said that there are far more circulating about various Democrats/liberals than there are about the other end of the spectrum. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:02 PM (#2434639) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: emjay I started this list and said I didn't know what books might have been banned -- none were. Then I went on to tell about a book that I know was banned in specific places in this same Matanuska-Susitna Borough that is home to Sarah Palin. I think the name of the book with which I am familiar came up on some search for the might have been Palin list. That book is the one I was and am concerned with. The possible list was given and I went to the Time Magazine website. I didn't find it and I posted that information on this thread. I am pretty sure there are a lot of readers on this list. I also think most are very careful of any information they might pass on. I appreciate all that SRS and Ron Olesko have contributed to this and many other threads. Please don't come down so hard on SRS for this. She obviously did a lot more research and contributed information about the list she submitted. At least we learned it is what I thought it might be. MJ |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:02 PM (#2434640) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace LOL, Bee. I thought about it for a bit and I cannot really think of any guys I know who finished one of her books. (Actually, I did in my first year at university: "The Edible Woman" and I was forced to write some damned essay on the symbolism of the turtle in the story. It was then while chewing my leg that I lost the taste for Atwood. It's not because she's female; it's because I could never understand what the hell she was talking about. (Alice Munro--on the other hand--is my favourite short story writer. Her I understand.) |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:04 PM (#2434643) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko " Considering the vicious nature of the kinds of lies that McCain supporters have been spreading about Obama for months now, I don't think McCain supporters are in any position to be pointing fingers about that sort of thing. " With all respect Carol, it is that kind of thinking that keeps the problem alive. We become no different than the scum. We need to be above that sort of petty bullshit or we are just as guilty. It doesn't matter who points fingers or who says what, ALL that matters is the truth. When you cannot speak the truth, then whatever is said does not matter. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:04 PM (#2434644) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Emma B I love Alice Munro too and thanks to Peace for introducing me to her work. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:10 PM (#2434649) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Sorcha Carol, I DID. YOU go read it. The answer is NONE actually banned. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:12 PM (#2434652) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace I'll second Emjay's remarks about SRS. As for accusations that these are Democrat lies about a Republican--maybe yes, maybe no. Who the hell knows how these types of e-mails get started. However, if I wanted to find that out it would be far easier to look at the number started by people who pillory Obama and see if there's a common denominator. Crying foul when the people doings so didn't cry foul over the swift-boating that went on regarding Kerry should be talking in a calm whisper about this possibly scurrious (sp?) allegation about what's'erface. No offense to anyone intended. This kinda shit takes away from the issue of Obama being slammed. I await the cries of foul from Republicans on this one. Some of those lies were promulgated by what's'erface. So here she is up nto her neck in a substance most wouldn't care to step in, and she brought lots of it on herself. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:17 PM (#2434658) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Amos The facts are that no books were banned; but the mayor discussed the possibility several times with the senior librarian, and met strong resistance to any banning on moral or other Grundyesque grounds. The mayor later threatened to fire the librarian, and only backed off due to vocal protest from the public. The librarian later resigned when Palin was running for her second term. The fact is that she proposed and explored the possibility of censoring the publics access to books. The meaning of that fact is, to me, that she is potentially a dictatrix on moral premises, and therefore not suited to be a national leader. A |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:21 PM (#2434661) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Emma B Actually Sorcha is correct 'Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association's Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed' the Anchorage Daily News Sept 4th although ..... 'Back in 1996, when she first became mayor, Sarah Palin asked the city librarian if she would be all right with censoring library books should she be asked to do so. According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn't fully support her and had to go. After a wave of public support for her, Palin relented and let Emmons keep her job.' |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:25 PM (#2434664) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace If vthat's what Americans want, it's what they'll get. Palin is not a hard-done-by innocent. She's played the press for what it's worth, attacked Obama with innuendo and implication. She will bring about her own downfall. And I won't be sorry to see it happen. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:28 PM (#2434667) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Emma B 'She's played the press for what it's worth' Who hasn't in this election? |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:28 PM (#2434668) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "The fact is that she proposed and explored the possibility of censoring the publics access to books." I agree that she is not suited to be a national leader. She should be questioned for lies with the Bridge to Nowhere, her supposed "ethics", and how her extremist religous views will effect her decision making. Did you see the speech she made in June where she claimed that God has preordained everything? The problem with the book issue is that it is NOT A FACT that she proposed and explored the possiblity of censoring the publics access to books. The only "fact" that has come out is that she did indeed ask the librarian "if she would be all right with censoring library books should she be asked to do so". The librarian said she was asked the question on three occasions. I grant you that is a helluva question to ask, and if she was sincerely planning to ban books then she should be exposed, but to draw conclusions based on a question that any of us could ask another is wrong. If a reporter asked the same question to a candidate, would you draw an immediate inference that the reporter is advocating book bans? I would love it if proof came out that she was planning a book ban. I would someone to uncover a list - a smoking gun that ties her to this crime. Until someone can prove it, it is simply wrong to make assumptions. We are only hurting the chance of sending her back to the frozen tundra and McCain to a retirement home if we make factless accusations. There is enough dirt on this woman, we do not need to perpetuate a falsehood. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:31 PM (#2434673) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace True, Emma, Who hasn't. Nice to have it agreed that she has too. She was starting to develop a halo when she's just another power-hungry person on the hustings. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:33 PM (#2434675) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Emma B she's just another power-hungry person on the hustings. Nice to agree too! |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:37 PM (#2434682) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC I didn't see anyone saying that any books were banned. I only saw people saying that she wanted to ban books. And I agree about telling the truth, but I think that it should nevertheless be pointed out to people who are saying that if any Obama supporters say something that isn't true, the Democrats lose credibility, that their side isn't in a position to point fingers. I can't quote people, use names, or copy paste anything, so I know it's not going to be easy for people to figure out which posters' comments I am addressing (there are two of them), but there it is. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:42 PM (#2434685) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Emma B 'have no love for Republicans and less respect but that list beggars belief.' Is this a list of the 'fictious' banned books or what? it doesn't seem to be on the thread anymore maybe it DID begger belief? |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:43 PM (#2434687) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC That's the list of books she wanted to ban. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:44 PM (#2434688) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "I think that it should nevertheless be pointed out to people who are saying that if any Obama supporters say something that isn't true, the Democrats lose credibility, that their side isn't in a position to point fingers." First, "my side" is the Democrats. Second, our credibilty is brought into question because "the left" has a higher standard then the conservative right and their history of dirty deals. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:45 PM (#2434690) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Sorcha Uh, Carol....'wanted' is a LONG WAY from 'banned'. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:47 PM (#2434692) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC In the opening post to the thread it says books she wanted banned. That's certainly the question for which I was looking for information, and I didn't see anyone saying that any books had actually been banned. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:47 PM (#2434693) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Emma B Carol where is the evidence for that? You have always been an ardent supporter of the truth and sources on other threads for which I have commended you; please give the source for the existance of a list of proposed banned books that is spreading like a virus through the blogosphere. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:50 PM (#2434699) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC I never said there was a list of books that she wanted banned. I am only saying that the people here in this thread who are accusing the people who have posted to this thread of saying that she actually banned any books are not telling the truth. I haven't seen anyone in this thread say any books had actually been banned. And as I said before I never said there was a list of books that she wanted banned. In fact, I said in a post earlier in the thread that I didn't find any list. I think the people in this thread who are not telling the truth about what other posters in the thread have said are not in any position to be pointing fingers at people for not telling the truth. As I said before... read the thread. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:51 PM (#2434700) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: GUEST,beardedbruce "That's the list of books she wanted to ban. " that were not even all written at the time in question... |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:51 PM (#2434702) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Sorcha Sorry, but I think you are 'splitting hairs' here. Either she DID it, or she did NOT do it. It is beginning to seem to ME that what we have here is a bunch of hypocrites.....those who are MORE than willing to SMEAR McCain/Palin, but can't take the same regarding Obama. Why can't ALL of these lies, purported innuendo just STOP? |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:54 PM (#2434704) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Emma B - I think all of us need to take a step back. Carol is right, she did not say that books were banned but she was reacting to what had been presented as fact with the opening thread and the title and the link. Long before you posted your link to the Anchorage Daily News, the truth was discussed. The list is being spread across the internet, and it is dangerous. It is like a bad chain letter. Here is one of the e-mails I received from an individual I deeply repect, but he did not check his facts: SARA PALLIN'S BOOKS FOR BANNING Like many of you I am nearly speechless at the selection of a self-described hockey mom with less than 2 years of experience as a governor (in one of the least populated states) as a vice presidential nominee. Even if McCain's advanced age were not an issue, we all need to worry about the prospect of Sara Pallin being but a heartbeat away from the presidency. My God, if the incompetent Bush were not enough for us to endure over the past 8 years, now we have to imagine a White House with Pallin riding shotgun. Can you imagine how the right wing would respond if any Democrat ever tried to bring in someone as inexperienced and blatantly unfit for the job? Trooper-gate notwithstanding, and of course the phony holier-than-thou business, but there's something much scarier going on with this former beauty queen from the much-celebrated "small town America" who is now on the national stage. Satah Pallin made a strong attempt, during her years as mayor, to be sure that her values--and only her values--would be reprresented in Wasilla, Alaska's library. Below is a list of the many classic books she fought hard to have BANNED; this list comes from the Wasilla Library's own records. A glance over this list will clarify that this woman, who is another link in the chain of conservative tethers on the people of this country, fits in so well with the neo-fascist regime we are just now trying to forget. Many of these books make strong statements which are if not anti-capitalist then at least pro-grassroots movements. Other books feature a strong, hard to face view at a future caught up in totlitarian worlds. But some others simply question the military or turn a young boy into a folk hero. At least one of these books is the story of a mentally retarded young man's trials, tribulations and amazing growth while being tested in a lab environment. Why the objection? Perhaps her great fear of science is showing through. Or her fear of social unrest and upheavel. Or her fear of the occult; heaven forbid someone should enjoy a fantasy story like any of the Harry Potter books. They probably conjure up Satan. Surely some of Stephan King's books must or any books on Halloween or stuff by Maurice Sendak (!), or Pallin wcouldn't have objected to these so harshly. Its for our own good, you know. You'll note that books which try to normalize gay relationships gotta go. Naturally. The proud mother and mayor couldn't allow any 2-mommy families to sit on a bookshelf near any of her good books on etiquette. Oooh, quick, toss out ANYTHING by Arthur Miller or John Steinbeck; those rabble-rousing upstarts. And just in case any women (or African Americans) get too high-minded, better burn 'I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings", too. Just to be sure. Shit---almost left out 'Catcher in the Rye'. Oooh, that's one that most people EXPECT to be banned, so why leave it out? And some of those nasty Tarzan books just feel icky. I mean, God forbid that nice European man gets too close to a monkey or something. mmmmmmm OKay, okay, you say---so she's another crusading Jesus freak who can't leave well enough alone. Its just the stuff that's dirty or a little too strange that she's banning. No problem. Then what in hell puts 'Our Bodies, Ourselves' on this list, or 'To Kill a Mockingbird' or 'The Color Purple'? I am sure we can all venture to guess, but this list, taken as a whole represents some of the greatest books this country has produced, alongside a bunch of fun things and a few titles that wouldn't attract many of us, but---so what? Yet, Sara Pallin could never leave it at 'so what?'. And that's what makes this person so goddamned frightening. She felt the need to try to take away opportunities from her own townfolk, tried to steal a wealth of knowledge and fantasy from them. No amount of standing ovations at her speeches can ever disappear this fact---then-Mayor Pallin attempted to tap into the fascist playbook. That's the bottom line. And when the local librarian fought these extreme measures, she found herself reading the Want Ads: the jack-booted hockey mom fired her for protecting the reading rights of Wasilla's citizens. So look over the below list and imagine life without some of these book Ms Pallin so desperately wants to keep out of readers' hands. And then imagine some of her actions if she ever becomes vice president. In Solidarity, XXXXXXXXXXX A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess > A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle > Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden > As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner > Blubber by Judy Blume > Brave New World by Aldous Huxley > Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson > Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer > Carrie by Stephen King > Catch-22 by Joseph Heller > Christine by Stephen King > Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau > Cujo by Stephen King > Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen > Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite > Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck > Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller > Decameron by Boccaccio > East of Eden by John Steinbeck > Fallen Angels by Walter Myers > Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John > Cleland > Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes > Forever by Judy Blume > Grendel by John Champlin Gardner > Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam > Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling > Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling > Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling > Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling > Have to Go by Robert Munsch > Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman > How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell > Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain > I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou > Impressions edited by Jack Booth > In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak > It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein > James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl > Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence > Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman > Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm > Lord of the Flies by William Golding > Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein > Lysistrata by Aristophanes > More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz > My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and > Christopher Collier > My House by Nikki Giovanni > My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara > Night Chills by Dean Koontz > Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck > On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer > One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander > Solzhenitsyn > One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey > One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez > Ordinary People by Judith Guest > Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health > Collective > Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy > Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl > Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin > Schwartz > Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz > Separate Peace by John Knowles > Silas Marner by George Eliot > Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. > Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs > The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain > The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain > The Bastard by John Jakes > The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger > The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier > The Color Purple by Alice Walker > The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth > The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs > The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck > The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson > The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood > The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder > The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks > The Living Bible by William C. Bower > The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare > The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles > Wibbelsman > The Pigman by Paul Zindel > The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders > The Shining by Stephen King > The Witches by Roald Dahl > The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder > Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume > To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee > Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare > Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the > Merriam-Webster > Editorial Staff > Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the > Halloween > Symbols by Edna Barth |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:55 PM (#2434706) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC The whole thread is about her wanting to do it. One can say that people who don't want their words to be lied about are splitting hairs if they want, but there is a HUGE difference between wanting to do something and actually doing it. She asked how she might go about banning books. So that makes a discussion about whether or not she wanted to ban books a perfectly legitimate discussion. |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:59 PM (#2434714) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Joe Offer Also please note that at the time Sarah Palin inquired about book banning, she was 32 or 33 years old. She may have been too young to understand the political dangers of inquiring about something. Same with the list of ten inappropriate jokes John McCain has told over the last 20 years. Don't you get excused for an inappropriate joke every once in a while? I gotta say, I was really hoping that this campaign would be about substantive issues. So far, all I see are smears and half-truths and ancient information. So far, the candidates haven't done any of this smearing, but I think they're silly to go blaming the opposing candidates for the smears. The smears and misinformation are coming from all kinds of sources that are beyond the control of the candidates, so the candidates need to do their best to stay above it completely. One cheap shot from Palin should be noted, however - her scoffing at Obama's work as a community organizer on the south side of Chicago before he entered politics. I'll bet Palin wouldn't have had the courage to set foot on the south side of Chicago without a bodyguard. -Joe- |
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08 Sep 08 - 07:59 PM (#2434713) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace Carol speaks well for herself. She doesn't need folks putting words in her mouth. (Sorry about the mixed metaphor. BGut it doesn't rank up there with "The most glorious of lands on which the hand of man has ever set foot.") |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:00 PM (#2434716) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Emma B thank you Ron I see that you state this is in fact a hoax that has been taken up and run with here? 'But Palin's list might still turn up.' ??? |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:04 PM (#2434721) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Amos I have no desire to forward false data or offer smears, although I have sometimes done so. I thought Ms Palin was very bright, an excellent spear carrier for her campaign. But the issue of banning books was raised by her three times, not once. If I were mayor I think the question would never have come up once. The question I would have asked the town's senior librarian, rather than how she would feel about banning books, is how she would like to expand her booklist, and what could be done to acheive that. Of all the questions to ask!!! So, it seems fair to wonder what was on he rmind that the subject even came up once, let alone three times. A |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:08 PM (#2434722) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Joe Offer OK, so she inquired about banning books three times. How long ago was the third time, Amos - and did she make any effort to ban anything in the last ten years? -Joe- |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:08 PM (#2434723) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Sure, a list might still turn up - that is always a possiblity. If we get really lucky, we can also pin her to the Kennedy Assassinations, 9/11, and the whereabouts of Jimmy Hoffa. As I said, the list as posted is a hoax and we should be talking about facts. |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:08 PM (#2434724) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Sorcha Well, I can tell you that NOBODY bans books in MY library. NOBODY. The Head Libraian would have your (choice of words here) if you even AKSED about it. And she HAS too. |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:12 PM (#2434731) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Riginslinger I don't know. I was in the library here once when some biker looking guy came in looking for something by the Marquee de Sade, and they almost threw him out of the place. |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:19 PM (#2434738) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Bill H //\\ I have just come back from chairing a meeting of my local library board and one of our members is the director of a very prestigious library in Connecticut. He brought up--after the meeting--the issue of Palin and her problems with a local library. I think that the whole issue is not what books are on the list or some such matter. What is of concern is that she attempted to have the Library Director fired and requested books to be removed. It smacks of a further step along a line that the Bush administration has plowed into a path. The trouble with so much of this is the minutae. Look at the big picture---or use a big brush. Palin tries to dictate and make sure all follow her lead (orders). She seems almost like a resurrection of Mussolini---the trains will run on time and I will rule this country. Of course, then Adolf ruled him but that is beside the point. One other thought---an aside, if you will. Some say that her family members and issues should be off limits. OK (though it seems not to apply to others). So why is it then that she prominently parades them on the platform---included her newest child and, of course, the new son-in-law to be. Bet that dude will be a boon at the white house to mingle with the gunslinging, beer swilling set. By the way--a true Right To Lifer does not believe there is a choice. How is it then that Sarah of the Planet Hypocrisy blesses her daughter for making a right choice. By the way---her first was born(Sarah"s) very shortly after her marriage. Nuff said there about values. I think the blame for all this lies squarely with John McCain. Pandering in the first degree in choosing a candidate for VP that was not his choice but, rather, a choice to placate and pacify the ultra-right of his party. Great first decision for a would be Pres.---go for the easy out. Sound familiar? Bill Hahn |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:20 PM (#2434739) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "I can tell you that NOBODY bans books in MY library. NOBODY. The Head Libraian would have your (choice of words here) if you even AKSED about it. And she HAS too." Absolutely!!!! I would hope that everyone supports her too. We cannot have books banned. I wish this country took as much notice about our freedoms being taken away from us when the FCC started dictating what can be broadcast after "Nipplegate". |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:32 PM (#2434747) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace Same issue raises its ugly head in various provinces from time to time. Usually headed by a 'silent majority' (read religious group). |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:40 PM (#2434752) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: GUEST,A Regular Two decades ago I 'defended' a fellow teacher from the Parent Council that had decided that a book should be removed from the school library. The teacher had used the book in class, and despite it being on the approved list by the education authority, the PC wanted to have a go at her. I approached that august body and read from ten publications. I asked if each of theose books should be banned. The answer was yes. I informed them that they'd just tossed out Shakespeare, Salinger, Orwell, Twain and the Holy Bible. (They hadn't read the book I don't think.) Anyway, everyone decided to cool off and the following PC meeting it was decided to let parents first read the book and report page and paragraph that was offensive. I suggested it be in writing so there could be no misunderstanding later. That was the end of it. Inertia is one of the universe's strongest forces. |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:44 PM (#2434754) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: artbrooks This just in from FactCheck.org on "sliming Palin". |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:54 PM (#2434757) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Emma B 'Palin tries to dictate and make sure all follow her lead (orders). She seems almost like a resurrection of Mussolini---the trains will run on time and I will rule this country. Of course, then Adolf ruled him but that is beside the point.' Just wondered how long it would take for Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies to come into play :) I thought it had now been confirmed that she 'requested books to be removed' was a smear every bit as false as suggestions about Obama's religion? |
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08 Sep 08 - 08:56 PM (#2434758) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC That fact check site has worded some of its material rather misleadingly. For instance is says that the librarian remained at her job for most of Palin's term as mayor, but it neglects to mention that it was a public outcry that kept her from being terminated. I think I'll be a bit more suspicious of factcheck.org in the future. |
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08 Sep 08 - 09:13 PM (#2434769) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "For instance is says that the librarian remained at her job for most of Palin's term as mayor, but it neglects to mention that it was a public outcry that kept her from being terminated." No, they do mention that - much further down. Very odd editing at the site. |
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08 Sep 08 - 09:42 PM (#2434780) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: GUEST,beardedbruce "One false rumor accuses then-Mayor Palin of threatening to fire Wasilla's librarian for refusing to ban books from the town library. Some versions of the rumor come complete with a list of the books that Palin allegedly attempted to ban. The story is false on several fronts: Palin never asked that books be banned; the librarian continued to serve in that position; no books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin supposedly wanted to censor weren't even in print at the time, proving that the list is a fabrication. It's true that Palin did raise the issue with Mary Ellen Emmons, Wasilla's librarian, on at least two occasions. Emmons flatly stated her opposition both times. But, as the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman (Wasilla's local paper) reported at the time, Palin asked general questions about what Emmons would say if Palin requested that a book be banned. According to Emmons, Palin "was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library." Emmons reported that Palin pressed the issue, asking whether Emmons' position would change if residents were picketing the library. Wasilla resident Anne Kilkenny, who was at the meeting, corroborates Emmons' story, telling the Chicago Tribune that "Sarah said to Mary Ellen, 'What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?' " Palin characterized the exchange differently, initially volunteering the episode as an example of discussions with city employees about following her administration's agenda. Palin described her questions to Emmons as "rhetorical," noting that her questions "were asked in the context of professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city." Actually, true rhetorical questions have implied answers (e.g., "Who do you think you are?"), so Palin probably meant to describe her questions as hypothetical or theoretical. We can't read minds, so it is impossible for us to know whether or not Palin may actually have wanted to ban books from the library or whether she simply wanted to know how her new employees would respond to an instruction from their boss. It is worth noting that, in an update, the Frontiersman points out that no book was ever banned from the library's shelves. Moreover, although Palin fired Emmons as part of a "loyalty" purge, she rehired Emmons the next day, and Emmons remained at her job for two-and-a-half more years. Actually, Palin initially requested Emmons' resignation in October 1996, four days before the public discussion of censorship. That was at the same time she requested that all four of Wasilla's department heads resign. Palin described the requests as a loyalty test and allowed all four department heads to retain their positions. But on Jan. 30, 1997, three months after the censorship discussion, Palin informed Emmons and Wasilla's police chief, Irv Stambaugh, that they would be fired. According to the Chicago Tribune, Palin did not list censorship as a reason for Emmons' firing. Palin rehired Emmons the following day. Emmons continued to serve as librarian until August 1999, when the Chicago Tribune reports that she resigned. So what about that list of books targeted for banning, which according to one widely e-mailed version was taken "from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board"? If it was, the library board should take up fortune telling. The list includes the first four Harry Potter books, none of which had been published at the time of the Palin-Emmons conversations. The first wasn't published until 1998. In fact, the list is a simple cut-and-paste job, snatched (complete with typos and the occasional incorrect title) from the Florida Institute of Technology library Web page, which presents the list as "Books banned at one time or another in the United States." " |
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08 Sep 08 - 10:00 PM (#2434782) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Amos Well, here's another question. We ha dlaong upthread dispensed with the fictitious booklist. According to Emmons' testimony the question was raised not one one occasion, but on three separate ones. But let's ignore the book-banning issue. What is a "loyalty test"? What kind of a criteria is that to impose on a librarian, for goodness' sake? What measure of results in a library system would such a test ensure? And what is the mindset of an executive who considers that proactively testing others for their loyalty is a priority executive action? Was she acting as a town mayor or a fuerher? What the hell kind of question is that to impose on a library manager? A |
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08 Sep 08 - 10:10 PM (#2434784) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "What the hell kind of question is that to impose on a library manager?" IF her politics and opinions were OPPOSITE of what we have heard discussed, I would say that she could have been testing the manager to see if this person would succumb to pressure to ban books. That is rather extreme and the mindset of someone who doesn't trust people, but it is one possiblity. |
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08 Sep 08 - 11:12 PM (#2434807) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Amos Well, there are a LOT easier ways t find out how a librarian would respond to "book banning pressure". Why would it be an issue at all? Anticipating an attack from the even-further-right? Improbable. A |
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08 Sep 08 - 11:33 PM (#2434819) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "Why would it be an issue at all? Anticipating an attack from the even-further-right? Improbable." Hardly improbable!! There are plenty of people who wish to control what people think and read. Frankly, if the question were asked on a job interview, I don't think anyone would think twice. This has only become an issue because of who Palin is. There are plenty of other question marks with this wacko, and I'm beginning to think this is simply a right-wing diversion. Keep the public questioning a non-story on a hot trigger issue and the bigger issues with less press will float buy. The press will soon paint the people who question her "book banning" as the demons and wackos. It is not far fetched. Her religious beliefs and how it will play on her decisions is of more concern. Her views on abortion alone is enough to scare the hell out of me. This woman cannot be put near the White House. They are too damn scared to put her in front of the press. Lovable Charlie Gibson gets the first shot at her. They know her cracks will show if she gets grilled by the hard core press. |
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08 Sep 08 - 11:54 PM (#2434825) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC It should also be pointed out (in light of the copy/paste upthread a bit) that the librarian was only able to keep her job because of a public outcry demanding it. |
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09 Sep 08 - 12:00 AM (#2434827) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: katlaughing In the end, they will have to talk about real issues and Obama will keep on keeping on and win: In an interview, today, on MSNBC: I mean, this is — this should not be complicated. Here's what it comes down to. Under George Bush's stewardship, with an assist from John McCain and the rest of the Republican Party, the economy is weaker now than it has been in a very long time. Unemployment is higher. Poverty is higher. More people are uninsured. Wages and incomes have flat-lined. Middle class folks who used to feel secure now feel unstable. We've got more homes being lost to foreclosure than at any time since the Great Depression. And John McCain does not have any discernible difference from George Bush when it comes to economic policy. He's got the same economic policy. So if you like what has happened under George Bush's presidency, you should vote for John McCain. If you think that we have to move this country in a fundamentally different direction, then you should vote for me. And that is going to be the case that we make throughout this election, and frankly, that's not the conversation that the McCain campaign wants to have. Rick Davis was very explicit. John McCain's campaign manager said this campaign is not going to be about the issues. That was his assertion. Well, I think that the American people expect it to be about the issues. They deserve it to be about the issues. That's what we're going to keep on pressing in the weeks that will remain. |
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09 Sep 08 - 12:02 AM (#2434830) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies It's amazingly difficult to figure out what you can believe of what you find on the Web. That's why evidence, facts, direct quotes, and reliable sources--and skepticism-- are necessary. It's just too easy to get a misleading paraphrase--either against or in favor of a theory or person. It seems obvious that the "list" of books proposed to be banned is bogus--sounds just like a standard list put together by a civil libertarian as a flag to be waved against the "Religious Right"--and updated, yet, to include Harry Potter. Nothing to do with Palin. However it appears that BB's interpretation is also a whitewash of Palin's clash with the Wasilla librarian. It appears that all sources agree Palin did ask about the possibility of removing certain books from the library. BB et al: is asking that question--whether books can be removed from the library-- just fine with you? Even if "Anne's" story of pressure turns out to be wrong? Caveat: I haven't figured out who "Anne" is--but her version of the events has the ring of truth--and seems to be confirmed by several other sources. Obviously, on the Web, you never know. Perhaps Ebbie or somebody else can say who "Anne" is. But this is "Anne's version--and Anne says, among much else--lots of details of Wasilla and Palen: "I have known Sarah since 1992. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child's favorite substitute teacher." Re: books "While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship. so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the Librarian are on her enemies list to this day." Anne appears to be not a fan of Sarah--but basically fair. Elsewhere in her post ( which is taken from comments to MSNBC First Read): she says, in evaluating Palen: social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, BUT vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did this because it was unconstitutional) pro-creationism: mixed: Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to promote it. pro-life: mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby BUT declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation. "Anne's" evenhandedness tends to support the idea that she is not a Web plant. Obviously it's not proven that "Anne" is a reliable source--but her version sounds plausible--though it appears Palin had the right to fire anybody in government under her--they served at her pleasure. |
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09 Sep 08 - 12:10 AM (#2434833) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace What Kat quoted, for sure. It's what elections are SUPPOSED to be about. |
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09 Sep 08 - 12:12 AM (#2434834) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: artbrooks "Anne" is Anne Kilkenny, a Wasilla resident, active (according to her) Democrat and Palin opponent. Both FactCheck and Snopes staffers have spoken to her, verified her existence and the fact that she did make the statements attributed to her. |
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09 Sep 08 - 08:08 AM (#2435067) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: pdq "Actually, Palin initially requested Emmons' resignation in October 1996, four days before the public discussion of censorship. That was at the same time she requested that all four of Wasilla's department heads resign." Also goes on to say: "...she rehired Emmons the next day, and Emmons remained at her job for two-and-a-half more years. All smoke and no fire here. A Democrat operative named Anne Kilkenny came up with this as an attempt to damage Sarah Palin. There is no list since the discussions with the librarian were oral (two or three such discussions) and framed as "hypothetical", as "what if someone asked you to remove...". Even suggesting that Sarah Palin went to the library to have these exchanges may be wrong, since the various department heads, such as police chief, have regular meetings with the mayor as part of official government business, both policy and planning sessions. I think this would qualify as a policy discussion. |
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09 Sep 08 - 10:01 AM (#2435153) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: katlaughing pdq, did you even read the latter part of this thread, esp. artbrooks' post just before yours? The list thing was corrected back up the thread, also. |
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09 Sep 08 - 10:17 AM (#2435170) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: kendall Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a Governor. (Quote by Sandy Paton) |
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09 Sep 08 - 10:38 AM (#2435181) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: John Hardly mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS! WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books. mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS! WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books. mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS! WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books. mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS! WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books. mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS! WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books. mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS! WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books. mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS! WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books. mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS! WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books. mudcat collective: THIS IS HORRIBLE -- SHE'S BANNED BOOKS! WFDU - Ron Olesko: But it's not true. Check snopes.com. She never banned those books. |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:11 AM (#2435216) Subject: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: Stringsinger What next? Book burning? > This list is taken from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board. > > A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess > A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle > Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden > As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner > Blubber by Judy Blume > Brave New World by Aldous Huxley > Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson > Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer > Carrie by Stephen King > Catch-22 by Joseph Heller > Christine by Stephen King > Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau > Cujo by Stephen King > Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen > Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite > Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck > Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller > Decameron by Boccaccio > East of Eden by John Steinbeck > Fallen Angels by Walter Myers > Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland > Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes > Forever by Judy Blume > Grendel by John Champlin Gardner > Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam > Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling > Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling > Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling > Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling > Have to Go by Robert Munsch > Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman > How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell > Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain > I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou > Impressions edited by Jack Booth > In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak > It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein > James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl > Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence > Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman > Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm > Lord of the Flies by William Golding > Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein > Lysistrata by Aristophanes > More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz > My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier > My House by Nikki Giovanni > My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara > Night Chills by Dean Koontz > Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck > On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer > One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn > One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey > One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez > Ordinary People by Judith Guest > Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective > Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy > Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl > Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz > Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz > Separate Peace by John Knowles > Silas Marner by George Eliot > Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. > Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs > The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain > The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain > The Bastard by John Jakes > The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger > The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier > The Color Purple by Alice Walker > The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth > The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs > The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck > The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson > The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood > The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder > The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks > The Living Bible by William C. Bower > The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare > The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman > The Pigman by Paul Zindel > The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders > The Shining by Stephen King > The Witches by Roald Dahl > The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder > Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume > To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee > Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare > Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff > Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween > Symbols by Edna Barth > |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:17 AM (#2435221) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: GUEST,number 6 Hmmmmm .... I notice The Tropic of Capricorn by Truman Capote is not on the list ... I guess she hasn't read it. biLL |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:20 AM (#2435223) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: Becca72 Not bad...I only own 11 of them. |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:21 AM (#2435224) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Barry Finn She asked about banning books WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? She wanted to dump the librarian WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? She wanted to sell "her" plane on e-bay WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? She had to sell it elsewhere, at a huge loss She built a 15 million dollar sports complex in a town of 5,6,7000? & they didn't own the land it was built on, & now the legal fees are throught the roof of that tiny town WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? She want's to declare open season of protected species, Bears & wolves WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT The war in Iraq & the pipeline are both parts of God's plan WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? SHe backed the "bridge to nowhere" till she knew it was going no where & then said "No Thanks" but still took the money WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? She thought that standing up for the 'Pledge of Alliance' put her in the same league as our 'Founding Fathers'. They are rolling on the floor laughing their asses off. Does she know they're all dead? She doesn't know about 'THE' war? Where's she been for the past 7 yrs? She doesn't know what the office of the vice Prez is for? Great resume for a job interview. How's she gonna explain all this when confroned in a debate, or is no one gonna ask the easy questions? Can't wait Barry |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:21 AM (#2435225) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: Riginslinger I thought that was Henry Miller! |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:22 AM (#2435229) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: Bill D Truman Capote???? Does the estate of Henry Miller know that Capote is being given credit? |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:24 AM (#2435231) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: GUEST,number 6 My gawd .... Jesus was a community organizer, or the Obama is the 2nd coming, Palin's book burning, the secret terrorist killing thing, Johnny McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns, the palin phobia, .... man you guys are really losing it down there south of the border. Do you need any help from the outside world ??? biLL |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:27 AM (#2435233) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: Riginslinger I suspect this is a list that the library has, and not a list of proposed banned books. It contains Harry Potter books that the right-wing-religious-wackos want to ban, along with Huckleberry Finn that uninformed-civil-rights groups want to ban. There doesn't seem to be any consistency. If Obama supporters put this list out into the public domain, I think it will help McCain and hurt Obama. Much like the attacks on Sarah Palin have gained McCain all of those white women voters. |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:27 AM (#2435234) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: GUEST,number 6 Well ... I've been corrected, thank you ... I really don't know what the Tropic of Capicorn is really about .... just remember my mother making a public stink about it when it was not allowed in the bublic libraries ... think it was back in and around 1960 or something. biLL |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:29 AM (#2435238) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Can we combine this with the other thread? Once again, there was no LIST for the Sarah Palin issue. This was an internet hoax, and the list is from another site of books that are frequently targeted for banning. As much as I despise the politics and positions that Sarah Palin holds, I don't think it helps to perpetuate hoaxs and rumors when there are real and substantial issues out there. |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:30 AM (#2435239) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: Emma B Not this one again! "One false rumor accuses then-Mayor Palin of threatening to fire Wasilla's librarian for refusing to ban books from the town library. Some versions of the rumor come complete with a list of the books that Palin allegedly attempted to ban. The story is false on several fronts: Palin never asked that books be banned; the librarian continued to serve in that position; no books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin supposedly wanted to censor weren't even in print at the time, proving that the list is a fabrication. So what about that list of books targeted for banning, which according to one widely e-mailed version was taken "from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board"? If it was, the library board should take up fortune telling. The list includes the first four Harry Potter books, none of which had been published at the time of the Palin-Emmons conversations. The first wasn't published until 1998. In fact, the list is a simple cut-and-paste job, snatched (complete with typos and the occasional incorrect title) from the Florida Institute of Technology library Web page, which presents the list as "Books banned at one time or another in the United States." " from the previous thread about this 'hoax' |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:31 AM (#2435241) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: katlaughing *sigh* This has already been discussed and debunked, at length, in this thread. |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:33 AM (#2435243) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: GUEST,number 6 "I suspect this is a list that the library has, and not a list of proposed banned books" ????????? biLL |
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09 Sep 08 - 11:41 AM (#2435247) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: Bobert Man, I think you have lost it, Rigs... I don't recall any elections in the history of the United Sates being decided because of the available books at public libraries... That, "my friend", is a major league stretch of the imagination... B~ |
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09 Sep 08 - 12:03 PM (#2435275) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: Emma B 'If Obama supporters put this list out into the public domain, I think it will help McCain and hurt Obama' too late - it has already appeared on the my.barackobama.com site Sept 5th 12.17pm EDT although subsequently removed! |
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09 Sep 08 - 12:13 PM (#2435292) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: Donuel We need to close Libraries anyway Emma. They are a drag on the military budget. |
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09 Sep 08 - 12:22 PM (#2435301) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: GUEST,number 6 Well, if you want to look at it that way ... close the libraries .... they now have become antiquated, dinosaurs in an age were peeple can access inof on the web, hang out at big box book stores and drink a latte while you read a book you have no intention buying ... or hell buy dirt cheap book on the bargain table. biLL |
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09 Sep 08 - 12:22 PM (#2435302) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Richard Bridge 100 |
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09 Sep 08 - 12:30 PM (#2435306) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: dick greenhaus To hell with all this discussion of her past and her qualifications. Just look at what the lady stands for. If one agrees with her hyper-conservative policy, her past deeds and experience are irrelevant. If you oppose those policies, the past is also irrelevant. |
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09 Sep 08 - 12:30 PM (#2435307) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: Alice Both threads on this hoax should be closed with a notice that the book list IS A HOAX! |
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09 Sep 08 - 12:37 PM (#2435315) Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin's book ban list From: pdq The word "hoax" implies that it was done for fun. This is not funny. It is just another of many professionally-written slime jobs directed at Republicans and should be seen for what it is. In all fairness to Obama, he has been "above the fray" most of the time, but so has McCain. This cycle is (so far) much more polite than the last two. |
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09 Sep 08 - 02:55 PM (#2435450) Subject: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: Stringsinger I checked with Snopes. Although no books have ever been banned at the Wasilla, AK Library, when Palin became mayor in 1996, she had several meetings (about banning books) with the librarian, and tried to get the woman fired for NOT being willing to ban books. I don't really know what they were. |
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09 Sep 08 - 02:58 PM (#2435457) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: GUEST,beardedbruce please close this and send peopel to the present thread on this. |
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09 Sep 08 - 02:59 PM (#2435461) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: CarolC I don't think there were any specific books. It looks like it was a more general line of inquiry about what the librarian's reaction would be if Palin told her to remove books from the library. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:00 PM (#2435462) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: CarolC The other threads have been closed, so it is not possible to post to them. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:01 PM (#2435466) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: WFDU - Ron Olesko That is partly true, but partly twisting the reports that are available. According to newspaper reports from the time in question, she ASKED the librarian at least three times what she would do if she were asked to ban books. Technically you could say that is a discussion about banning books, but it is a very grey area. There are no reports of specific books being requested to be banned, so there is no way for any of us to "know what they were" or even IF the discussion got to that point, which it appears that it did not. I hate to appear to be in a position where I am defending this person, because I feel she would be dangerous to put in the position of vice president. I'm strongly against her positions, but at the same time I do not want to resort to the erroneous accusations and downright lies that have become the hallmark of Republican politics. Sarah Palin has enough flaws that we should be focusing on. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:06 PM (#2435470) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: CarolC People are saying that Palin was just generally firing people as a sort of loyalty test. I have to say that this looks like a very messy and unprofessional way to govern. The negative repercussions of this are still surfacing many years later. She may have executive experience, but her record suggests to me that she's not very good at it. And it looks exactly like the GWB mindset of "yer either fer us or agin us". So if she were the president, I think it's safe to say that a Palin presidency would look a lot like the Bush presidency. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:09 PM (#2435474) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "I have to say that this looks like a very messy and unprofessional way to govern. " I agree, but it it not uncommon. Many elected officials expect the prior office holders appointments to resign. If they feel they can work together, the office holder will deny the resignation. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:13 PM (#2435480) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: CarolC Whether or not it is common, it's definitely something people might want to take into consideration when they consider what sort of president she would be. It looks to me like she would be the GWB kind of president. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:13 PM (#2435482) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: SINSULL "People are saying..." The best source for information. Just read the other thread. I don't plan to vote for her either but at least work with facts not rumors. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:13 PM (#2435485) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: GUEST,beardedbruce thread.cfm?threadid=114180&messages=101&page=3&desc=yes does not appear to be closed... |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:16 PM (#2435488) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: CarolC Well, then it's been reopened. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:16 PM (#2435489) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: Big Mick I believe this is fair game. The very fact that she, as a person of authority, is asking the librarian the question amounts to an abuse of power, and a use of intimidation, under any reasonable interpretation currently being used. The discussion, to have been appropriate, should have occurred at a city council meeting, and not with an employee. This should have been handled as an official policy matter, with appropriate documentation. But to do that would mean a paper trail and that would not be a good political move. So instead she used the implied threat. Shows that she is just another Dick Cheney style person, who looks better physically and has a nicer smile. My grandmother used to tell me that what one is speaks louder than what one says s/he is. This person's imperial "I speak for God and know what is best for the rest of you" attitude should be kicking off alarm bells. If you think the last eight were scary, go ahead and elect this team. Mick |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:16 PM (#2435490) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: Peace Folks, we be talking about a Librarian. Not someone who's intimately involved in governing the town. Hell, I was a councillor once. That type of thing is plain and simple bullshit; a scare tactic, and a question of that sort should have been taken to an attorney and missy brought up on a harrassment charge after the second time she aske the same question. The Mayor was testing the water, and by testing it twice she was way the hell outta line. IMO.. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:17 PM (#2435491) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: Stringsinger And yet, her theological bent is one intended to suppress free speech that she finds objectionable. It isn't too hard to draw the conclusion that these meetings did take place and the librarian was threatened with expulsion from her job. I have reason to seriously question most newspaper reports on this issue. And the fact is that firing someone for a loyalty test does not need to be defended by enlightened people. This is a different approach to this issue and should not be placed under the other thread title. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:17 PM (#2435492) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: CarolC I find it odd that I would be criticized for reporting the version that is the most factual just because I prefaced it with "people are saying". |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:18 PM (#2435494) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: Stringsinger Also, Wasilla is a scary place. Palin's church is a scary place. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:21 PM (#2435501) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: Peace The churches ain't scary, but some of the parishoners are. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:23 PM (#2435502) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "It isn't too hard to draw the conclusion that these meetings did take place and the librarian was threatened with expulsion from her job." It isn't hard to draw a conclusion if we have a preconceived idea of what would have taken place in a meeting that took place 12 years ago. We do not have all the facts, and the facts that we have indicate a contrary opinion. If we wish to disregard information that does not support our viewpoint, then the partisan bickering will continue and the great divide will only continue to make matters worse. Yes, I am scared that other actions she has taken indicate an attack on free speech. I wish everyone who is so upset at this story would have felt as strongly when the FCC started their strongarm tactics a few years ago after the Janet Jackson incident. Our free speech was attacked and no one seemed upset. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:25 PM (#2435507) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "The very fact that she, as a person of authority, is asking the librarian the question amounts to an abuse of power, and a use of intimidation, under any reasonable interpretation currently being used." If a reporter asks the same question, is it also an abuse of power? While I do not condone her questions, this is nothing unusual - a question that you would hear on a job interview. I'm not defending her actions, but I do think if we are going to question her motives, we need to question our own. Are we looking for an easy reason to attack her? |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:27 PM (#2435509) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: Peace Ron, a reporter doesn't have hiring/firing privileges. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:35 PM (#2435514) Subject: RE: BS: Palin did have a meeting about book ban From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Not directly, but a reporter can greatly influence hiring/firing and elections. The point is, we truly do not know her intentions. If a reporter, of if you and I were having a conversation and asked that question, would we infer that the person asking is trying to ban books? I'm not defending her tactics, but if this librarian quickly answered "sure thing, I will ban whatever you say" - would you want that person as the head of your library? We just do not know what was going on. We are making inferences and being led down the wrong path. There are more important issues. Her stance on abortion, her religious beliefs which could greatly influence her decisions, her environmental problems, her so called "ethics" which seems like great flip-flopping, etc. etc. etc. There are plenty of issues to discuss that will reveal this person as unfit for public office. If she was hellbent on banning books in a local library for a town of 7000 people back in 1996, what else has she done along these lines since then? She has done plenty of things that I resent, but I have yet to hear of her "banning books" or "freedom of speech" as govenor or elsewhere. IF the proof is out there, please bring it forward and I will be the first on line to march in protest. Until then, we are acting like the lemmings that the other party thrives on. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:39 PM (#2435517) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC I see once again that someone is lying about what the people in this thread have been saying. Once again... NOBODY IN THIS THREAD HAS SAID THAT PALIN HAS BANNED ANY BOOKS. Maybe if we put the thread on Snopes, that would clear the matter of what the people in this thread have been saying. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:41 PM (#2435518) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace People think what they want. Even if it's not so. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:43 PM (#2435521) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "People think what they want. Even if it's not so" Well said. That is the problem! We all hear what we want to hear and read what we want to read, even if it avoids finding the truth. |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:46 PM (#2435527) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Joe Offer This is the first of three threads on Governor Palin and book banning. I'm in the process of combining all three, because our policy is to have only one active thread on any given subject. I suppose it might be better to have only one Palin thread active, but apparently people want to discuss this book banning issue. But hey, don't start any more book banning threads. -Joe Offer- |
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09 Sep 08 - 03:46 PM (#2435528) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Donuel The election will come down to {including the criminal electronicly changed votes} HOW STUPID AMERICA IS Even the financial wall street crooks/parasites know that they have poisoned the host, and still they persist. They will die on the carcass high on the hog. |
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09 Sep 08 - 04:01 PM (#2435540) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Donuel, with an attitude like that you might as well just retire to that tarpaper shack in the woods and finish your manifesto. America is not stupid,just a few folks in goverment and business. We will surive and thrive and continue to learn from our mistakes. |
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09 Sep 08 - 04:19 PM (#2435558) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Donuel So whats the bottom line. did she or didn't she at least try to ban books? |
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09 Sep 08 - 04:20 PM (#2435559) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: PoppaGator I think the jury is still out on just how stupid the American populace can prove themselves to be. |
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09 Sep 08 - 04:22 PM (#2435561) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: GUEST,beardedbruce "she ASKED the librarian at least three times what she would do if she were asked to ban books. " |
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09 Sep 08 - 04:24 PM (#2435564) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "did she or didn't she at least try to ban books? " The answer, based on what we have all read from newspapers reports from the time give an indication of a conversation about banning books - no specific evidence she tried to actually ban books. If evidence to the contrary is out there, none of us can claim to have seen it. |
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09 Sep 08 - 04:32 PM (#2435569) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: PoppaGator Is this thread closed? I just wrote three paragraphs and only the first sentence was posted. I bit the "back" button to try again, several times, to no avail. I'll try again after posting this ~ IF I can post this! |
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09 Sep 08 - 04:49 PM (#2435584) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Amos HEar, hear. Donuel, the important thing is not to confuse the intelligence of individuals with the intelligence portrayed by mass market and media messaging. Most people are as smart as they need to be when the ghetto-blaster of mass media is removed from alongside their heads. A |
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09 Sep 08 - 05:04 PM (#2435604) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Big Mick Ron, I agree with you a good deal of the time, but not on this issue. This is one of several forms of harassment which are constituted by the implied threat. Your analogy of the reporter is not accurate, as the reporter has no specific ability to hire, fire, discharge or demote. S/he is not a supervisor under any of the accepted constructs. The reporters job is to report the news as s/he discovers it. A person in a position of authority, speaking with a subordinate over whom s/he has the ability to affect said employee's employment, is assumed at all times to be acting in an official capacity when having a work related communication of any kind. Ms. Palin, or any elected official, surely has the ability to discuss policy, in this case on the books, or music (you paying attention?), that can be found in the library or be played over the publicly funded airways. But it should be on the record, and available for public scrutiny in order that the public has the opportunity to hold accountable, or reward, that same official for their position. To hold a private meeting, or send an individual inquiry, to (in this case) a librarian indicating your displeasure, as the Mayor, at some books is an abuse of power, and should be considered job harassment. Further it is inflicting one set of beliefs on everyone. The obvious implication to the librarian is that the person that signs my check, and has the ability to have me removed, will not be happy with me for respecting Free Speech rights. Mick |
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09 Sep 08 - 05:09 PM (#2435607) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: PoppaGator Amos, I beg to differ. This is what I was writing about when I lost my message a few minutes ago, about the jury still being out on the stupidity of the American public: Vast numbers of voters regularly cast ballots in direct opposition to their own financial and other interests for no other reason than that their favorite demagogues give lip service to proven popular notions of public morality. These guys may or may not intend to restore the orderly behavior of earlier and simpler times, but they certainly can't and don't succeed in keeping their implied promises to the "social conservative" folks; all they do is mouth the preferred rhetoric. Then, once they take office, most of their energy is directed towards protecting the greedy two percent as they continue to enrich themselves at the expense of all the rest of us, fundamentalists and leftists alike and everybody in between. So, the masses of sheep happily being led to slaughter are one example of mass stupidity, but theyr'e not the only ones. The very many folks who more-or-less-accurately perceive what's going on, but who sit on their hands and refrain from voting, out of either cynicism or some kind of purist notion that "both sides are no good," are dumb enough to let the demagogues and their followers continue to rule. |
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09 Sep 08 - 05:18 PM (#2435612) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: GUEST,beardedbruce "To hold a private meeting, or send an individual inquiry, to (in this case) a librarian indicating your displeasure, as the Mayor, at some books is an abuse of power" which is NOT what happened. "The answer, based on what we have all read from newspapers reports from the time give an indication of a conversation about banning books - no specific evidence she tried to actually ban books. If evidence to the contrary is out there, none of us can claim to have seen it. " No mention of specific books. No action taken to ban any books. from http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html Palin did not cut funding for special needs education in Alaska by 62 percent. She didn't cut it at all. In fact, she tripled per-pupil funding over just three years. She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a "What if?" question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin's first term. She was never a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wants Alaskans to vote on whether they wish to secede from the United States. She's been registered as a Republican since May 1982. Palin never endorsed or supported Pat Buchanan for president. She once wore a Buchanan button as a "courtesy" when he visited Wasilla, but shortly afterward she was appointed to co-chair of the campaign of Steve Forbes in the state. Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska's schools. She has said that students should be allowed to "debate both sides" of the evolution question, but she also said creationism "doesn't have to be part of the curriculum." |
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09 Sep 08 - 05:32 PM (#2435626) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "Ron, I agree with you a good deal of the time, but not on this issue. This is one of several forms of harassment which are constituted by the implied threat" Big Mick, I respect your opinion and if there was any way that you could prove the "implied threat" I would agree with you too. Unfortunately, none of the information that I have read in the articles, Snopes, etc. is EVIDENCE of a threat. The "implication" is in the mind of the person interpreting. I do agree, that my analogy with the reporter is a different set of circumstances. The point I was trying to make is that the question "Would you ban books" could be asked in a number of different ways. Because of the opinion that many of us have formed of Sarah Palin, it is very easy to take it as intimidation. It very well could have been coming from a "boss". However, we are often asked similar questions in our day to day routines. Life is full of intimidations and how we handle it determines our character. Yes, the librarian was fired and rehired. I do not think Sarah Palin showed good judgement as an executive through her actions, and the line of questioning was unneccessary. It is still not enough to convict her of wishing to ban books. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE - let us find some more convincing evidence. |
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09 Sep 08 - 05:32 PM (#2435627) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Joe Offer Well, Barry, I spent an hour typing a long, well-reasoned response to your message, and then I lost it when somebody closed this thread before I finished typing. I admit I screwed up in the process of recovering the message, but I couldn't figure out why it was justified to close the thread in the first place. Anyhow, here's what Barry said, with my abbreviated response: She asked about banning books WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? Well, she just asked - and it was 12 years ago, when she was 32 years old and a new mayor. And maybe the book she wanted to ban was in the children's section and had pictures of women having sex with goats - we don't know what she intended, if indeed she intended to do anything. She wanted to dump the librarian WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? She DID fire the librarian, and the librarian got her job back right away. Politicians often fire the appointees of their predecessors - do you want an Obama-Biden Administation to keep the Bush Cabinet? She wanted to sell "her" plane on e-bay WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? She had to sell it elsewhere, at a huge loss The previous governor bought the plane for $2.7 million, and the Palin Administration sold it for $2.1 million, a loss of about 22 percent. Did you ever try to sell a used car for only 22 percent less that the price you paid for it? She built a 15 million dollar sports complex in a town of 5,6,7000? & they didn't own the land it was built on, & now the legal fees are throught the roof of that tiny town WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? What would it cost to build a gym for a high school for a town of 7,000? Click here to see photos of the complex, and judge for yourself whether or not it's extravagant. As for the title to the land, it's a complicated issue. This Wall Street Journal article says the City of Wassila began construction after winning title to the land in a federal court suit, but before an appeal. An "arbitrator ordered the city to pay $836,378 for the 80-acre parcel, far more than the $126,000 Wasilla originally thought it would pay for a piece of land 65 acres larger." But hey, $836,378 is far less than you'd pay for 80 acres here in California. She want's to declare open season of protected species, Bears & wolves WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT I'd like more facts - is she out to hunt down all protected species, or what? The war in Iraq & the pipeline are both parts of God's plan WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? Some religious groups believe that everything that happens, is according to some sort of divine master plan. Others call it "fate" or "karma." If there's war, it's God's plan - but if there's no war, it's also God's plan. Now, if Sarah is hearing God instructing her to build pipelines and fight wars, then I'd be worried - but there's no evidence she's heard any such voices. SHe backed the "bridge to nowhere" till she knew it was going no where & then said "No Thanks" but still took the money WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? Well, the "bridge to nowhere" was actually a bridge to the airport. As things stand now, people have to take a ferryboat to the airport, and they cannot drive anywhere from the city at all - they have to take a plane or a ferry. I'm glad I don't have to depend on a ferry to make it to flights on time. I have to cross dozens of bridges on my way to the airport, and I'm sure that together they cost billions of federal dollars. The Palin Administration decided the Alaska bridge was too expensive, even with the federal contribution, so they decided against it - not really a heroic decision, but probably wise. Were they required to return the Federal money, or were they allowed to spend it on other highway projects? If Palin was required to return the money and didn't, whey didn't the Feds go after her? She thought that standing up for the 'Pledge of Alliance' put her in the same league as our 'Founding Fathers'. They are rolling on the floor laughing their asses off. Does she know they're all dead? I think this page reports the matter accurately, but who can tell? Here is Palin's response to a candidate questionnaire for the Alaska 2006 gubernatorial race: Are you offended by the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not? SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I'll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance Now, if Palin were a lawyer, she might have parsed her phrases more carefully. Was she saying the pledge came from the Founding Fathers, or was she merely saying that the Founding Fathers made frequent references to God, which is certainly true? Do you really believe that the Governor of Alaska thinks that the Pledge of Allegiance was written by the Founding Fathers? I don't think so - it's just that she should have written more clearly. She doesn't know about 'THE' war? Where's she been for the past 7 yrs? In her speech to the Republican Convention last week, Palin said her son is going to be shipped to Iraq. Do you think she believes he's going there as a tourist? What war are you talking about? Of course she knows about the war in Iraq. Or is THE war some other war. She doesn't know what the office of the vice Prez is for? Shit, Barry, she was being ironic. If you read the constitution, you do wonder what productive work the Vice President does, other than sitting in the front seat in the Senate and hoping for the President to die. The last Vice President who did what a Vice President is supposed to do, was Dan Quayle, who opened a lot of shopping centers. I think Dick Cheney should be prosecuted for overstepping his authority; and I certainly don't appreciate Al Gore privatizing my job as a federal investigator (and wasting so much taxpayer money in subsequent contracts) in his attempt to "reinvent Government." Great resume for a job interview. How's she gonna explain all this when confroned in a debate, or is no one gonna ask the easy questions? Can't wait Barry I'm voting for Obama and Biden because I agree with their political philosophy, not because of all the half-truths that are being posted to smear McCain and Palin. I also deplore all the falsehoods that have been circulated about Barack Obama, but I don't think it's a good idea to fight falsehood with more falsehood. This is an election with four good candidates. Why don't we debate issues in this campaign, instead of perpetuating falsehood? -Joe Offer- |
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09 Sep 08 - 05:33 PM (#2435629) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Donuel Good answers, Poppagator and Amos It sometimes scares me that I, of clearly average or below average intelligence, have reached certain conclusions that goes over the heads of "the villagers" like a helium filled dog turd balloon at the Thanksgiving day parade. One or two people look up and exclaim "ewww" and then go back to cheering the baton twirler. |
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09 Sep 08 - 05:39 PM (#2435631) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Donuel I assume her church made certain suggestions to her and she was feeling out what is involved and what the liabilites were. This issue will be trumped by the next new thing I don't know what it is but I imagined this... http://usera.imagecave.com/donuel/PalintoddJohn.jpg |
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09 Sep 08 - 05:55 PM (#2435642) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stilly River Sage "under God" was added the the pledge of allegiance in the last century (1930s?). None of that was around when the Founding Fathers were. They worked pretty hard to keep religion out of government, primarily because the Baptists were afraid that the Puritans would lord it over them. How things have changed. . . |
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09 Sep 08 - 06:08 PM (#2435649) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC The Founding Fathers were mostly Deists and not really Christians of any sort. |
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09 Sep 08 - 06:23 PM (#2435665) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Joe Offer Carol, do these sound familiar?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Oh, I didn't find any reference to God or Creator in the U.S. Constitution (maybe it's there and I didn't find it) - but the Declaration of Independence makes clear reference to God. I thought was had always had "In God We Trust" on our coins and currency, but the U.S. Treasury says this is a far more recent innovation, not even proposed until an upsurge of religious sentiment during the Civil War. SRS, I believe that "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954, in response to a campaign by the Catholic Knights of Columbus. -Joe- |
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09 Sep 08 - 06:29 PM (#2435672) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC Christians don't have a monopoly on God and The Creator, you know. I said they were mostly Deists. Got any idea what "Deist" means? |
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09 Sep 08 - 06:29 PM (#2435673) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC By the way, the term "Nature's God" is very Deist. |
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09 Sep 08 - 06:36 PM (#2435681) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Joe Offer Yep, that's all correct, Carol, but I'm still trying to figure out what your point is. As far as I know, the "official" U.S. government stuff has been relatively careful to stay away from things that are exclusively Christian - although there have been slip-ups here and there, the references to God are generally inclusive of all who acknowledge a deity. If I were an atheist, I'd have some problem with all of this, however. Actually, as a liberal, I have some problem with both God and Flag because it seems the Republicans have taken ownership of both. The Pledge of Allegiance makes me uncomfortable, too. I try to mumble the worst parts of it... In general, Deists like Thomas Jefferson believed in a God who created and then left creation more-or-less alone. That's an oversimplification, but you get the idea. -Joe- |
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09 Sep 08 - 06:40 PM (#2435685) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC I don't have a point. I'm just correcting a piece of incorrect information that was posted to the thread. |
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09 Sep 08 - 06:41 PM (#2435689) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC I know it's difficult for people to determine which points I am addressing in my posts, since I can't quote or copy past what other people have posted, but there's nothing I can do about that. |
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09 Sep 08 - 07:48 PM (#2435735) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: DougR Misleading thread title. Palin never tried to ban books from the city library. All left-wing smear. No truth to it. DougR |
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09 Sep 08 - 07:50 PM (#2435736) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "All left-wing smear." I blame the right-wing. It smells of their usual slimy tactics and I think this was done just as a diversion. Never trust a conservative! |
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09 Sep 08 - 08:18 PM (#2435758) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC The thread title is, Alaska gov. Palin and banned books. The title does not make any accusation whatsoever. The thread is about Governor Palin and banned books. So the title is perfectly accurate. |
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09 Sep 08 - 08:21 PM (#2435762) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: CarolC And the more I see people distorting what has been said in this thread, the more I'm inclined to agree with those who are suggesting that the original posting of the list was a Rovian type of tactic by the McCain people. |
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09 Sep 08 - 08:26 PM (#2435769) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: dick greenhaus None of this is really to the point---Palin's political beliefs are pretty clear. Whether she banned books, or tried to ban books, or just asked about banning books, she still isn't anyone I'd like to see in a position of power in the Federal government. |
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09 Sep 08 - 08:35 PM (#2435770) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Peace Dick just wrapped it up. Can we go home now? That was a line from "Jaws". |
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13 Sep 08 - 06:09 PM (#2439486) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies 9 Sept 2008 8:08 AM "....various department heads, such as police chief, have regular meetings with the mayor as part of official government business, both policy and planning sessions. I think this would qualify as a policy discussion". The mayor of Wasilla asks the librarian 3 times about the procedure for removing books from the library. This is a "policy discussion"? Just how naive are you? |
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13 Sep 08 - 07:32 PM (#2439530) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: DougR Ron Davies: you obviously did not see or hear Charlie Gibson's recent interview with Gov. Palin on ABC. She asked the librarian what would be the policy SHOULD someone ask that a book be banned. She never asked that any book be banned. If you can produce valid evidence that she did, you can be assured that your picture will be on next week's edition of the major magazines in this country. Carol: and when YOU read the title you did not believe the thread was about Governor Palin supposedly asking the librarian to ban some books? Gimme a break. DougR |
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13 Sep 08 - 07:34 PM (#2439533) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Emma B Can we go home now?..............please |
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13 Sep 08 - 07:36 PM (#2439536) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: DougR Oh, and Joe: I don't recall there being a requirement in the constitution that a US citizen is REQUIRED to say the pledge of allegiance to the flag on any occasion. No problem with mumbling it either if it suits you better. Or you could recite Mary had a little lamb! Nobody would probably know. :>) DougR |
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14 Sep 08 - 04:21 AM (#2439820) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Joe Offer Well, Doug, I was a government employee or contractor for 30 years, overlapping another 30 years registered with the Boy Scouts, and I've lived in a heavily Republican county since I left the Government and the Scouts. I don't know about the rest of you, but I am "required" to recite the Pledge of Allegiance by powers higher than the Constitution - if I value the condition of the paint job on my car. So, I mumble and don't make an issue of it... Same with kids in most schools - they're "required" to say the Pledge - or get beat up by some patriotic bully. I used to mumble and slouch during the National Anthem before every movie I watched in the post theater when I was in the Army. I like my country just fine, but I don't like enforced patriotism. It's plain, damn jingoism, I think. -Joe- |
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14 Sep 08 - 07:45 AM (#2439871) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies Obviously Doug, you make it a habit to never read anything but pablum which supports your view. You really should read a bit more widely. And perhaps start to think. If it's not too much of a strain, of course. A bit of friendly counsel. AP 12 Sept 2008: "Shortly after taking office in 1996 as mayor of Wasilla, a city of about 7,000 people, Palin asked the city's head librarian about banning books. Later the librarian was notified by Palin that she was being fired, although Palin backed off under pressure." What part of this do you not believe and why? 1) Why did Sarah ask more than once--up to three times? Snopes: "According to Emmons (the librarian), Palin "was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library". Emmons reported that Palin pressed the issue, asking if Emmons' position would change if residents were picketing the library." 2) You evidently are not aware of the fact that at the time of the "policy discussions" religious fundamentalism was coming into Wasilla, and changing the ethos that had prevailed up to then. Sarah was elected partly due to bringing in issues of abortion and gun rights which had little direct bearing on how to govern Wasilla--but had people outside Wasilla ready to bankroll a candidate on the "right" side. It is well known that the "Religious Right" did not like certain books. The "list" bandied about on the Net has obviously no connection to the situation but certain books were possible targets. AP: 12 Sept 2008: "A local author, Rev. Howard Bess, a liberal Christian preacher in the nearby town of Palmer, saidd the church Palin attended until 2002, the Wasilla Assembly of God, was pushing to remove his book from local bookstores." "Emmons told him that year that several copies of "Pastor, I Am Gay" had disappeared from the library shelves, Bess said." 3) Not only did the librarian feel under threat, but others in town banded together to defend her against pressure she felt. 4) If you don't think that such questions, given that atmosphere at the time, were pressure on the librarian, you should think again. As I said, just how naive are you? |
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14 Sep 08 - 08:09 AM (#2439885) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies "Obviously, Doug..." "...said" |
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14 Sep 08 - 09:33 AM (#2439924) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Riginslinger "Same with kids in most schools - they're "required" to say the Pledge - or get beat up by some patriotic bully." We used to say the pledge in school. Once the put "under god" in it, we quit saying it. |
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14 Sep 08 - 09:40 AM (#2439928) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Riginslinger "1) Why did Sarah ask more than once--up to three times?" The librarian was hard of hearing. '"Emmons told him that year that several copies of "Pastor, I Am Gay" had disappeared from the library shelves, Bess said."' This is probably the book she was asking about banning, don't you think? Obviously they didn't think a witchdoctor should be gay. It's funny the extent these addicts will go to to find ways to amuse themselves. |
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14 Sep 08 - 09:48 AM (#2439933) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies "same with kids"---so just how do you feel about religious fundamentalism--which Sarah endorses--having an influence on what books are in your library? |
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14 Sep 08 - 09:51 AM (#2439935) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies " didn't think a witch doctor..."---have you taken a vow against making sense? Are you capable of writing a coherent sentence? |
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14 Sep 08 - 11:01 AM (#2439978) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Riginslinger "Obviously they didn't think a witchdoctor should be gay." Let's see: In order to make it coherent, I should have had a comma after "Obviously," and "witch doctor" should be two words, though I've seen it written the other way. Is that the basis of your complaint, Ron? |
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14 Sep 08 - 11:36 AM (#2439997) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies No, actually it has to do with the fact that your post just doesn't make any sense. But I suppose I should accept this as normal. Don't let me take you away from your important job of watching TV to get all your knowledge from Sean and Rush. |
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14 Sep 08 - 11:39 AM (#2440000) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies But please take a few minutes to tell us about your feelings on Sarah's religious fundamentalism, keeping in mind that you've been defending her recently. Can you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y? |
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14 Sep 08 - 11:50 AM (#2440007) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Riginslinger Ron - I don't think Rush has been on TV for a long time, and I don't listen to him on the radio. I do watch Hannity, from time to time, but it's hard to take a lot of what he says seriously. And I would agree that Sarah Palin's fundamentalism is disturbing, but I don't think it is as threatening to the country as Obama's Reverend-Wright brand of self delusion. Obama is supposed to be progressive, after all, so I think the citizenry will come to its collective senses sooner following the more obvious false choice. |
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14 Sep 08 - 12:44 PM (#2440050) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies What evidence do you have that Obama believes the wacko ideas of Rev Wright? Otherwise, your last post will be revealed as yet another smear. And we know that's not so--right? |
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14 Sep 08 - 04:32 PM (#2440245) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: DougR Ron Davies: thank you for your very insightful lecture. Has it not occurred to you that if they could legitimately hang the book banning charge around Palin's neck the liberal press would already have done so. Of course most of those folks don't need real proof, rumors are proof enough for most of them. Or stuff folks like you write in their blogs. DougR |
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14 Sep 08 - 04:45 PM (#2440258) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: dick greenhaus To recap, it doesn't matter a tinker's dam whether or not she tried to get books banned. If you like her political stands on international affairs, taxes, abortion, etc. she's fine. If you don't, she's just a further right-wing version of McCain. |
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14 Sep 08 - 05:24 PM (#2440292) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Donuel I suspect that this story has the inertia of a normal fear of zealous christian fundamentalism but may be exactly how sarah describes the incident with the Wasilla Librarian. |
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14 Sep 08 - 05:33 PM (#2440304) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Stringsinger Dick what is worth a damn is that she tried to get the Wasilla librarian Emmons fired for not following her orders on the book ban. That is an abuse of power. Emmons was not fired due to protestations. |
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14 Sep 08 - 05:37 PM (#2440308) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Amos The press generally acknowledges no books were banned, but that (a) the chief librarian was pressured by multiple separate discussion on the subject of banning books, which indicates Sara was considering that course of action should it prove politically expedient to do so. Two specific books about gayness -- "Pastor I'm Gay" and "My Father's Roommate", have been identified as points of contention in the articles I've seen on the topic. What has been successfully "hung around Palin's neck" is that she is adequately oblivious of the constitution to actual think public libraries should consider politically-inspired book banning. And a lot more pretentious twaddle, besides. A |
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14 Sep 08 - 05:43 PM (#2440324) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Riginslinger "What evidence do you have that Obama believes the wacko ideas of Rev Wright?" He sat in a pew and listened to him for 20 years! |
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14 Sep 08 - 06:45 PM (#2440377) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: dick greenhaus Stringsinger- A goodly portion of the folks that share Palin's values would probably be in favor of banning books...or maybe burning them. |
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14 Sep 08 - 07:33 PM (#2440419) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies Doug-- It's really too bad you have a problem reading. I gave direct quotes from the AP. What blog is that, pray tell? It's also too bad the limit of your thought processes is just to deny anything you don't like. Perhaps when you do learn to think and read you'll have something worth contributing. Or perhaps not. But it would be a pleasant change if you'd try. Just a suggestion. No offense meant, of course. |
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14 Sep 08 - 07:42 PM (#2440425) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies "He sat in a pew..." By that logic--not that logic is one of your strong suits-- you should totally reject Sarah. She also sat in a pew for 20 years--and I've quoted to you--if you're capable of reading--what she heard. Specifically she heard about the "end times" --do you know what that is?--and how do you like somebody who looks forward to the "end times" having access to the nuclear button? Also that the president (GWB was meant) was put into his post by God and therefore any criticism of him is "bringing in hell with the criticism". In fact she is more culpable- (look it up)- than Obama. Obama has rejected Rev Wright's outlandish ideas. She has rejected nothing of what she heard at the Wasilla Assembly of God--so far. |
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14 Sep 08 - 09:13 PM (#2440485) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Riginslinger "(look it up)-" Ron - Look what up? "Obama has rejected Rev Wright's outlandish ideas." Obama says he has rejected Reverend Wright's ideas, but the folks who believe in Reverend Wright still support Obama. What that tells you is: he hasn't really. But it's comforting to know that you find Wright's ideas outlandish. The fact that you don't agree with Sarah Palin's addictions either gives me hope that we might be able to save mankind from the scourge of religion. |
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14 Sep 08 - 09:18 PM (#2440488) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies "What that tells you is he hasn't really". Wrong. What that tells us is that you don't believe a word of what Obama says. But you do believe what McCain and Palin say. Interesting. All are politicians. But only one is black. Looks like Ebbie was right. Your racism is getting rather obvious. I may have to stop defending you. |
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14 Sep 08 - 09:38 PM (#2440497) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Riginslinger Ron - Neither McCain nor Palin have said that they don't believe what they heard in church. Of course, only one is a woman. |
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14 Sep 08 - 09:57 PM (#2440511) Subject: RE: BS: Alaska gov. Palin and banned books From: Ron Davies "Neither McCain nor Palin..." You're having that problem reading again. I never said that neither Palin nor McCain did not believe what they hear in church. In fact I pointed out to you that Palin has heard some things in church which would make a thinking person have concerns. But of course that wouldn't include you, it seems. Point is: Palin and Obama both have heard disturbing things by their ministers. Obama has stated he does not agree with the statements of the minister in question. Palin has not made any such declaration about the statements of the minister in her church til 2002. Therefore there are much greater grounds for concern regarding Palin than regarding Obama. For anybody who has any powers of logic. But it seems your unfortunate inability to think --or read--prevents you from seeing this. |
