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15 Sep 08 - 08:52 AM (#2440847) Subject: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Rapparee U.S. stocks headed for a sharply lower open and Treasury bond prices soared Monday as investors reacted to a stunning reshaping of the landscape of Wall Street. A series of events took out two storied names Sunday: Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and Merrill Lynch & Co. Stocks posted sharp losses in markets across much of the globe as investors absorbed a bankruptcy filing by Lehman and Merrill Lynch's forced sale to Bank of America for $50 billion in stock. And perhaps most ominously, American International Group Inc. is asking the Federal Reserve for emergency funding. The world's largest insurance company plans to announce a major restructuring Monday. (from the AP) |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:03 AM (#2440863) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel I know a secret... |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:08 AM (#2440865) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Rapparee Yeah. .30-30 ammo is on sale right now. |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:17 AM (#2440880) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel nope |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:21 AM (#2440886) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: GUEST,number 6 Oh shit !! biLL |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:21 AM (#2440888) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel psst (whisper) this has been planned for over 3 weeks to coincide with a 4 day stretch when the China market will be closed for a holiday & weekend. another secret: the push to drill drill drill is a big oil plan to lease virtually all the new off shore US properties to china. |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:30 AM (#2440901) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: GUEST,number 6 Hoky, Holy Shit indeed. We're f$%ked biLL |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:30 AM (#2440903) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel At the end of today the trading may close early to keep it from dropping into the 9,000's. We may see it close at 10,622 today from Friday's 11,300 a 5% loss is expected , a 50% drop would be an honest, yet generous, value of Americas market but that will come slowly instead of the 1929 sudden re evaluation. Its just as bad but designed to happen during a Dmeocratic administration. The business world likes it that way so they can ride the next deregulation Republican wave after some poor democratic shmuck has to pcik up the pieces and raise taxes just to stay afloat. |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:36 AM (#2440910) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Jean(eanjay) It was on the UK news last night and as predicted the LSE dropped considerably this morning. It seemed to improve a bit but is back on its way down. My ISA (PEPS) have already gone down in value this year so it is not good news for me. I'll just sit it all out and keep my fingers crossed! I really don't understand much about these things and what the implications of the China market being closed are. |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:39 AM (#2440912) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel There were only 5 huge investment banks on Wall Street. 3 are now gone. That leaves two remaining. IF you had Goldman Sachs or AIG you might be next to lose out of sheer panic. Ever wonder why everyone but Lehman bros. got bailed out or bought by Bank of America? I shouldn't say this but Lehman Bros. might be... I'll say this instead. Lehman might be the wrong faith. |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:40 AM (#2440913) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Jean(eanjay) Meant London Stock Exchange, not London School of Economics :-) |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:43 AM (#2440915) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Jean(eanjay) Doesn't the Bank of America have problems of its own with sub-prime lending? |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:46 AM (#2440917) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel China's market can't imediately respond and sell off big, triggering a fast cycle of re actionsell offs throughout the week. The market yahoos prefer to slow down the unsuing 5% to 10% devaluation of the market. imho it will still have 30 to 40 % to go down but the brakes are on full...all we can do is wait for the skidding to stop before we crash. Billionaire hedge $ can walk up a market*** maybe 5% but that is temporary and getting to risky to much anymore. ***walk up =(infuse a huge block of buying to stimulate suckers to not sell or even buy - and then sell the huge block a day or two later) |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:51 AM (#2440922) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel BOAmerica and several big private investors don't mind eating the dead meat if it is cheap enough. Besides when you are too big to fail you are like the criminal who steals a trillion dollars, you are in the position of getting your demands met. If you only steal $10,000 you are going to a cell with a metal toilet/sink. |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:55 AM (#2440925) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Jean(eanjay) Donuel, thanks for that. |
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15 Sep 08 - 09:56 AM (#2440927) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: GUEST,number 6 And to top it all off the Chinese are going to release a Pandemic influenza. Now I'm really pissed !!! biLL |
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15 Sep 08 - 10:00 AM (#2440934) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Jean(eanjay) Well, things clearly are a bit grim today - the London Stock Exchange has now stopped giving figures on its website! |
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15 Sep 08 - 10:01 AM (#2440937) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Jean(eanjay) Figures are back but lower still. |
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15 Sep 08 - 10:04 AM (#2440940) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Stilly River Sage AIG is on it's way out also. Comentary on Marketplace (NPR program airs for 10 minutes during Morning Edition in this market) this morning said there are a lot of regional brokerage houses posed to take advantage of the failure of the big ones. It's about time it wasn't all so centrally located anyway. SRS |
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15 Sep 08 - 10:32 AM (#2440965) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Why did Banc of America pay as much as 70% more than if they had waited and let Merrill Lych stocks fall, as they hav, today? Merrill Lynch under John Thain had already sold big chunks of their company to Europe and China. Europe and Chaina could have tried to prop up their existing investment and buy Merill Lynch outright OR if Banc of America under Ken Lewis had bouht it at newar worthless values like they did with Countrywide and Bear Sternes the Chinese investors would have lost so much money that retalliation would be expected. Ken Lewis and John Thain said the world "STRATEGIC" 27 times at their press conference today. If you owned Merrill shares they will be discounted (you lose) but the ratio of stock value to BOA will remain fixed. BAO will drop too. Ken Lewis is now he new crown king of Wall Street. |
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15 Sep 08 - 10:42 AM (#2440973) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Rapparee I need some more ammo for hunting. I kinda think times are gonna get a bit tough. And while I don't agree with everything Donuel has posted, much of it is true and frightening. I'll be looking over the Library Board minutes from late 1929, 1930, and 1931 when I get to work to see what tips might be there. We've already had an increase in patronage. |
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15 Sep 08 - 11:03 AM (#2441010) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Nothing I have said is actually alarmist. Everyone has an idea when the markets rock bottom will be reached. MY guess that it will be in 2 years. Even if regulation were enacted today it would take years for fixes to take hold. |
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15 Sep 08 - 11:05 AM (#2441013) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Rapparee I agree with THAT! I predict that in two years the US will also find itself in a situation similar to that when Sputnik was launched: suddenly the government will realize that we have fallen way, way behind in education and there will be a frantic frenzy to "catch up." You can't undo decades of mistakes in a few days and still have a democracy. |
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15 Sep 08 - 11:10 AM (#2441021) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel We are tied with Estonia in child education scores. I don't think I would want my kids in school 6 days a week like in Japan. Rapaire, the book Wreaking Crew has soured my mood a bit this week. It shows the big picture of the deficit and why conservatives run it up to the sky. |
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15 Sep 08 - 11:27 AM (#2441038) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Ken Lewis just said that over the next 5 years 4,500 banks will close their doors (fail of be bought up) |
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15 Sep 08 - 11:42 AM (#2441052) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: john f weldon An interesting analogy Rapaire, and believe me, I wish you well. But Sputnick represented that the Russians were ahead in one area, physics & rocket science. Happily, the increase in education spending (and respect) spread quite widely, into other fields and crossing borders. But... ...one area where the Russians were behind and stayed behind was biology. This was due to the fact that Darwinism (and Mendelian genetics) was seen as contrary to Marxism. So they went with Lysenko; the result was Russian crop failures, while North American wheat flourished. This was at least as important as the arms race in scotching the Russian Empire. Soo... ...I hope you get the increased education, but not the Sarah Palin variety! |
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15 Sep 08 - 11:56 AM (#2441065) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Ebbie "a 50% drop would be an honest, yet generous, value of Americas market but that will come slowly instead of the 1929 sudden re evaluation. Its just as bad but designed to happen during a Dmeocratic administration. The business world likes it that way so they can ride the next deregulation Republican wave after some poor democratic shmuck has to pcik up the pieces and raise taxes just to stay afloat." Donuel If that strategy is in place, the powers must be assuming that the next administration will be Democratic. They wouldn't want to lay this onto McPain, would they? |
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15 Sep 08 - 12:23 PM (#2441085) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Rapparee There was no intent to compare the US and Russia -- just to point out that I suspect that a similar frenzy will take place. Who cares about facts when you can have a media frenzy? |
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15 Sep 08 - 12:43 PM (#2441102) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: heric Elmer Fuld of Lehman reportedly made 45 million dollars last year for his good work there. |
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15 Sep 08 - 01:07 PM (#2441128) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: GUEST,number 6 "Who cares about facts when you can have a media frenzy? " ... let alone a people frenzy !! biLL |
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15 Sep 08 - 01:24 PM (#2441136) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: SINSULL Actually, heric, his work last year earned him his 45M. Up until June of 2008, Lehman Bros was doing well. Fuld's mistake was to believe the company was worth more than the offers he received until time finally ran out. This will make a great movie someday with Fuld's hubris setting the tragedy in motion. |
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15 Sep 08 - 01:37 PM (#2441144) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Little Hawk "Elmer Fuld"? Elmer Fuld?????????? You gotta be kidding! Has he been heard muttering darkly about "wascally wabbits"? Does he brandish a shotgun and frequently check the status of his "cawwot patch"? |
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15 Sep 08 - 01:57 PM (#2441167) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Q (Frank Staplin) The major banks of Europe have stepped in to make US$70 billion available for those in trouble to draw on. The entire western economy is in the same boat, and probably China, etc., as well. With AIG having problems, others will be in the same boat- if you have any insurance claims, you may not be paid. Have fun! Enjoy! Just noticed a Google add at the bottom of this thread- "Hot Stock Alert- OXFD. Make Big Bucks in Bad Loans. Profit From Mrtgage Meltdown. Invest Now." |
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15 Sep 08 - 01:58 PM (#2441169) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Without all the new Orwellian code words... Let me simplify the process with a good old fashioned illustration Market 'crises' made easy |
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15 Sep 08 - 02:02 PM (#2441173) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: GUEST,number 6 Geeeeezuz H. Donuel ! |
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15 Sep 08 - 03:33 PM (#2441278) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Rapparee Next up: AIG and Washington Mutual (WaMu). Apparently this is hurting the BIG boys. The small saver is covered by FDIC. |
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15 Sep 08 - 03:44 PM (#2441293) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Art Thieme Where3 are the Wobblies when we need 'em? I paraphrase their Preamble's opening line. American capitalism, and true equality, both economically and socially, among the peoples of the nation, have nothing in common. Art |
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15 Sep 08 - 03:48 PM (#2441302) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Art Thieme Donuel, Right! Art |
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15 Sep 08 - 03:53 PM (#2441312) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel The US has 9,000 banks today. The CEO of Banc of America responded to a question of how many banks will there be in 5 years. He said "about half". The liquidity infusions of cash and bail outs by the Fed effectivly makes each dollar printed worth exactly less by the number of lost dollars in failed banks and mortgage companies. http://usera.imagecave.com/donuel/bloodmoney.jpg |
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15 Sep 08 - 04:05 PM (#2441336) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Riginslinger Art - I thought the WOBBLIES were right all along, too. I wonder if this will bring them back? |
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15 Sep 08 - 04:18 PM (#2441358) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Poor Shmucks of the world unite. the AIG bail out is a loan to buy time to sell off its material assets. If you had life insurance policy with AIG which is largely an insurance bank, then your life insurance is covered --- UP TO A POINT Some policy holders will not get full value, but in the case of life insurance you're already dead and won;t know it. Why is Lehman Bros the only guys not to get their bail out? besides some brokers say they are too Jewish. The WASP country club is feeling mighty proud now. Its like the good old days in Germany. AIG (All Ignorant Gorillas) made some extremely stupid investments after everyone knew that sub prime was a bogus investment. Wachovia did the same dumb thing. |
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15 Sep 08 - 04:38 PM (#2441371) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel GWB said that in the long run he is confident in the flexibility of our markets |
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15 Sep 08 - 04:55 PM (#2441385) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Q (Frank Staplin) In the late 1980s and early 1990s, more than 1000 federally insured institutions went under, the government bailout cost taxpayers about $125 billion. NY International Herald Tribune (NY Times stable), More Will Fail The FDIC has 117 banks on their "problem list." Financial Times, August 26, 2008- "Number of Struggling US banks rises by 30%," James Politi. The loss this time may be larger. |
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15 Sep 08 - 04:57 PM (#2441388) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Warren Buffet said thanks but no thanks to Lehman Bros. and AIG If you mimic Buffet or Soros on your own smaller scale, you will invariably be doing the right financial thing. |
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15 Sep 08 - 05:44 PM (#2441440) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: skarpi there might be only one left on wall street tomorrow ?? AIG is in big trouble ?? oh boy , its shaky out there the money market is like an old volcano it blow every 100 years or so hee hee kv Skarpi Iceland I ´ll get me a boat and fish for food and start fish seabird again live on the nature again ......... |
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15 Sep 08 - 06:54 PM (#2441525) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: The Fooles Troupe Sme may not understand the '9,000 banks' thing - In the USA there are many 'mom & pop' banks - dating right back to The Wild West, when anybody could start a local bank with very few branches. In Australia, we only have a handful of banks - they each have thousands of branches everywhere, If an Aussie bank goes up the spout, the ride will be rough. |
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15 Sep 08 - 07:06 PM (#2441531) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Riginslinger The Aussie banks will be all right if they're not holding any American paper. |
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15 Sep 08 - 07:20 PM (#2441542) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Not to worry, this situation will provide unheard of economic OPPORTUNITIES...Control your thoughts...bob |
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15 Sep 08 - 07:28 PM (#2441553) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Peace Song I'm working on this week. "Be damned, be gone you neo-cons, Be gone you billionaires, I've watched you from the minute of my birth: I clearly see the riches that These corporate sons-a-bitches Made from starving children on this Earth." Bruce Murdoch I'm gonna get it to Youtube soon as I can after it's finished. |
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15 Sep 08 - 08:40 PM (#2441606) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: GUEST,heric "Candidates Talk Wall Street in Order to Win Over Main Street" A day late, and oh, shall we say, a dollar short. None of you will recall I was bitching about both of them running and hiding from the first mortgage bailout Senate vote about a month ago. We have nothing to listen to but pure unadulterated bullshit for the next four weeks. |
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15 Sep 08 - 11:47 PM (#2441729) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel heric I have been speaking of this neo financial fiasco for 6 years. Greenspan today said "this is the worst thing I have seen in my lifetime". Robert Reich It really is bad. For 8 years I have been called an alarmist and worse, but I was not alone. Granted if you have in your hands a liquid 5 million and no outstanding debt you will find several great opportunities over the next 5 years that could generate a multi generational fortune over 10 years investing outside the US. Otherwise a 100K income will = a $40,000 income due to inflation, if your job is not lost. I have remained steadfastly passionate about the blatant theft and lies in the financial market for 6 years. I told you one year ago I sold all my stock and suggested you do the same. All I want to say is that all of us that knew this was happening did not cry wolf. We told you the wolves were in the bank and they were Christian Republicans claiming they were doing God's work. If I was an eloquent writer I might have sounded more persuasive but I told the truth the best way I knew how. In a way its like for every $2,000 a rich man stole from you, you have lost 20,000. They made a tiny commission and you lose your life savings. gnite and gluck |
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16 Sep 08 - 12:21 AM (#2441758) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Peace Heric and Don, y'ain't alone my friends. |
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16 Sep 08 - 12:24 AM (#2441761) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: katlaughing Donuel! THAT "illustration" needs to be published, far and wide!!! By far the best in quality I've seen of all of yours, all of which you know I think are fantastic! |
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16 Sep 08 - 12:29 AM (#2441766) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: GUEST,heric Yes and I've been listening I'm just talking about our two straight-talking Senators running from the general subject when an important vote was scheduled where they work. And the all-too-obvious point that they are not going to start talking straight now! I'm going to pretty much shut down on listening to anythng more from them. |
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16 Sep 08 - 12:43 AM (#2441774) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel kat Everyone seems to like the black and white toons I don't know why they have more impact than technicolor but they do. |
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16 Sep 08 - 05:58 AM (#2441880) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Jean(eanjay) A lot of jobs in the UK will be lost as a result of this and the FTSE is down again today. Will the fact that some countries have injected money into their banking system or money markets have MUCH effect in calming things? Australia was mentioned earlier in the thread and that is one of the countries that has put money into the money markets. |
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16 Sep 08 - 09:22 AM (#2441956) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Rapparee I'm with Skarpi. At least I'm in a place where I can grow my own veggies, fish my own fish, and hunt my own meat. If I have to, I can do all those things. I'm currently doing an analysis of the local unemployment rate vs. the national rate, trying to see if this area has a period when it lags behind the national rate and if so, by what length of time. Two statisticians who know the local economy that I've spoken with agree with my suspicion about the lag. I'm using monthly data from January, 1978 to the present. |
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16 Sep 08 - 11:21 AM (#2442069) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Alice A little background on this that I received in email today: If McCain wants to hold someone accountable for the failure in transparency and accountability that led to the current calamity, he should turn to his good friend and adviser, Phil Gramm. As Mother Jones reported in June, eight years ago, Gramm, then a Republican senator chairing the Senate banking committee, slipped a 262-page bill into a gargantuan, must-pass spending measure. Gramm's legislation, written with the help of financial industry lobbyists, essentially removed newfangled financial products called swaps from any regulation. Credit default swaps are basically insurance policies that cover the losses on investments, and they have been at the heart of the subprime meltdown because they have enabled large financial institutions to turn risky loans into risky securities that could be packaged and sold to other institutions. Lehman's collapse threatens the financial markets because of swaps. |
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16 Sep 08 - 11:46 AM (#2442095) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Gramm really did that but everytime they do secretly put laws no one voted for on the books, now one goes to jail. Dick Army did it too. Like a mental depression he has caused a global depression. But he says its all in our mind. |
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16 Sep 08 - 02:18 PM (#2442279) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Republicans call this the ctrisis du jour, they must be right. Nothing here folks, move along, go home if ya gottem. |
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16 Sep 08 - 06:31 PM (#2442534) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: dick greenhaus Gee, Where are DougR and BB?--we need reassuring words. |
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16 Sep 08 - 07:34 PM (#2442594) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Rapparee Blessed are the young for they shall inherit the national debt. --Herbert Hoover |
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16 Sep 08 - 08:14 PM (#2442623) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Ebbie We're biting off more than we can chew We're biting off more than we can chew We're biting off more than we can chew Me and you. So what're we gonna do? We'll just leave it to our children We'll just leave it to our children We'll just leave it to our children They'll just have to find a way to pay and pay and pay Big debtors. Ain't-grown-yetters Ankle biters. You-all-keep-quieters. Pat Henry, bluesman Juneau, Alaska |
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16 Sep 08 - 08:31 PM (#2442634) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel There's a hole in my bucket! Our Cup Runneth Over |
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16 Sep 08 - 10:03 PM (#2442677) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Rapparee I understand and approve of the Federal government "bailing out" the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (a/k/a "Freddie Mac") and the Federal National Mortgage Association ("Fannie Mae"). They are federally chartered corporations set up by Congress, "government sponsored enterprises" as they are called. And the "bailout" was actually placing both in "conservatorship" of the Federal Home Financing Administration (FHFA). There had been rumors and talk of troubles within both for some time -- over a year, as far as I know. |
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16 Sep 08 - 10:09 PM (#2442682) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Riginslinger I don't see anything else they can do in the short term. But now is the time to face the reality of the situation and actually pay for it. Ebbie is right. We are all the lowest form of scum if we allow this debt to be passed on to our children. |
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16 Sep 08 - 11:12 PM (#2442717) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Banc of America is now strategicly too big to fail |
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16 Sep 08 - 11:16 PM (#2442720) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: CarolC Anybody know how all of this is affecting banks in other countries? Our bank is a Canadian bank that has a presence in the US. |
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16 Sep 08 - 11:41 PM (#2442727) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: GUEST,petr so the Fed stepped in and bailed out AIG just like they did Fannie Mac and Freddie Mac.. hows that for socialism. if you expect to be bailed out at taxpayer expense - then you shouldnt expect to rake in the money when times are good. |
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16 Sep 08 - 11:43 PM (#2442728) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: GUEST,petr and bear stearns.. I think the key point is that the US is moving away from being the financial powerhouse it used to be - and the BRIC Countries Russian, India China are on the rise... |
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16 Sep 08 - 11:49 PM (#2442731) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: CarolC It's only socializing the risk. The people who say they hate socialism only hate it when the benefits are socialized. They prefer to socialize the risk. |
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17 Sep 08 - 06:39 AM (#2442901) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: pdq "if you expect to be bailed out at taxpayer expense - then you shouldnt expect to rake in the money when times are good. The US government gets (in one way or another) three (3) trillion dollars a year to spend. Every year is "good times" for the federal government. The people and some lower government entities are not always the lucky. |
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17 Sep 08 - 08:39 AM (#2442970) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Desperate Wall Street Why don't you come to your senses You've been out fencing messes For so long now That cash that you've stolen is the debt we are holdin and will hurt us somehow. Don't you sell the sub prime mortgages She'll beat you if she's able. You know that energy is always your best bet. Now it seems to me, some fine things Have been laid upon your table. But you only want the ones That you can't get. Desperare Wall Street, Ohhhh you aint getting no younger. Your pain and your hunger, They're driving you home. And freedom, ohh freedom. Well that's just some people talking. Your prison is a hundred mil in your Swiss account. Et Tu AIG? |
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17 Sep 08 - 08:48 AM (#2442980) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Rapparee "I think we're heading for Socialism," the man said to me yesterday. "Right about now almost anything seems better than what we have," I replied. "Yes," he sighed. "So much for my life-long support of the Republican Party and George W. Bush." |
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17 Sep 08 - 09:28 AM (#2443008) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Say this whole mess took place in a small town. The guy who took your money to buy seed for your crops. THings were fine and the crops made a profit. But now the seed banker bought unkown worthless seeds on purpose or worse yet took your moeny and didn't give you any seeds, just a promise. Now you have no money or seeds. There is no more trust, no more seeds no more crops. What do you think the townsfolk should do to the seed salesman? If we killed him, the next seed salesman might think twice about cheating us. If we bailed him out, the way is clear for more of the same. |
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17 Sep 08 - 09:49 AM (#2443025) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Why no mention of Jail Time or any other punishment for these little wall street giants? Could it be the editors are owned by them? Hey were are the robo journalists, the greg palasts in this issue? |
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17 Sep 08 - 10:50 AM (#2443074) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel Where is the small town justice for Wall Street Swindlers? provocative indeed. |
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17 Sep 08 - 11:06 AM (#2443089) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: MaineDog If a hurricane were to hit New Orleans and substantially wipe it out, I bet almost everyone in the country would scream for the Feds to step in and bail them out, even if they knew they were building below sea level and not adequately maintaing their levies and pumps. Now that a disaster has hit the American financial infrastructure, some people are upset that the Feds are taking action. Is this a case of "not in my back yard" or "those immoral bastards deserve what they get" or "the American financial system is not in line with the demands of Allah and deserves to be destoyed along with the World Trade Center"? Unfortunately we do have a financial infrastructure which has become essential to business as usual. FACT. Perhaps this should not be so, but here we are and it has taken us many years to get here, and it will take many years to back out of the situation even if we decide to do so now. If a terrorist blows up an important bridge, we fix the bridge, we don't wait until we catch the terrorist and see if we can squeeze any money out of h-. Then, we put new standards on bridges, and new defenses in place, and try to prevent it from happening again. Catching and punishing the crook is a good idea, but probably not the most important to do now. MD |
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17 Sep 08 - 12:46 PM (#2443148) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: CarolC New Orleans did get substantially wiped out, and the Feds have done f*ck all to help the people of that city. The Feds only help the people at the top. Everyone else is on their own. |
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17 Sep 08 - 01:01 PM (#2443175) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Rapparee So AIG is now, for all practical purposes, nationalized? |
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17 Sep 08 - 01:15 PM (#2443202) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: CarolC LOL Ah well, people can console themselves with the knowledge that the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist, so socialism can't be all bad. ;-) |
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17 Sep 08 - 01:27 PM (#2443217) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Jeri If the bank that holds my mortgage goes tits up, do I still have to make the payments? Honestly, I hadn't read this thread all the way through until now (and I've skipped bits) and was sort of amused to find people treating Donuel's predictions as alarmist, having just seen the Dow drop over 300 points and AIG give up the ghost. When it comes to the US economy right now, NOTHING is 'over the top'. |
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17 Sep 08 - 01:35 PM (#2443227) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: heric Good observation MD. Of course in any election with the economy in the tank, we want to punish "them," but who are "they"? See here, it's entrenched and endemic and bipartisan: http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080716/pl_politico/11781 Witht the quality of our journalists (see, e.g., Charles Gibson), try to imagine how much we don't know. >So AIG is now, for all practical purposes, nationalized?< Well good - now we can (do?) have a nationalized health insurance program why not. Was it this thread where riginslinger said we are scum if we pass this to our children? Too late dude. It's done. |
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17 Sep 08 - 02:05 PM (#2443257) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: pdq MaineDog's post is amazingly clear and reasonable. That is almost impossible to find right now in Mudcat's BS section. |
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17 Sep 08 - 05:36 PM (#2443470) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel From: Donuel - PM Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:30 AM At the end of today the trading may close early to keep it from dropping into the 9,000's. We may see it close at 10,622 today from Friday's 11,300 WHOO HOO It closed at 10,609 today I was only 13 points off. |
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17 Sep 08 - 08:21 PM (#2443576) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: GUEST,petr mainedog doesnt get it at all.. there is no comparison of a natural disaster hitting New Orleans with a bailout of AIG.. (never mind CarolC's very good point that they actually did bugger all for New Orleans..) AIG is in the INSURANCE industry they are in the business of RISK... they are supposed to be careful and do their due dilligence in evaluating risk.. instead they were leveraged up to the yin yang and went ahead and insured all these risky mortgage deals - sure I understand that it was necessary for the Govt. to step in and stave off any further collapse... (although it would have been far better not to have de-regulated --- NOTE: Phil Graham, who wrote McCains economic poliy and was the architect of the 2000 bill that de-regulated credit default swaps. Deregulation has been the cornerstone of many conservatives since Reagan. It has failed miserably.) basically if you believe in a FREE ENTERPRISE or Laissez Faire system they should be allowed to fail- otherwise if you expect some kind of govt. intervention then it is a form of socialism - (and I dont say that with distaste) I run a business - and in the 25 years we have been around - we never got a cent from the govt. If I make some stupid decisions and fail I dont expect to be bailed out.. Bush and the Republicans wanted to replace social security with a PRIVATE savings accounts, - at this rate everyone would be broke. |
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17 Sep 08 - 09:12 PM (#2443598) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Donuel pdq My apologies for any lack of clarity. If you could point to a reasonable example I will try to conform to a standard which is universaly comprehensible. |
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17 Sep 08 - 09:39 PM (#2443612) Subject: RE: BS: Big Trouble on Wall Street From: Riginslinger petr - Yes, I agree. Phil Gramm is an idiot. I thought McCain would have been smarter than to tie his wagon to Gramm. All of it makes me want to vote for Nader. |
