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30 Sep 08 - 04:25 AM (#2453552) Subject: BS: Bail or Bale From: John MacKenzie Do posters on this site mean bail as in pay to get out of jail? Or bail, as in bail the water out of a sinking ship? Or bale as in hay making? Are we sinking because the banks have been making hay. Or should the bankers and politicians be put in jail, and bail set a $700 billion dollars? The Basilisk had a baleful stare, perhaps it should be turned on the bankers? XG |
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30 Sep 08 - 06:14 AM (#2453598) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work Oi, MacKenzie - have you missed your medication again?! LTS |
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30 Sep 08 - 06:31 AM (#2453610) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: gnu Hey! Hay? |
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30 Sep 08 - 09:14 AM (#2453717) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Donuel There is a world wide outcry to demand that certain Wall Street "rocket scientists" go to jail. The FBI is just now starting to investigate. No doubt that many will need bale money and might even try to use the bailout money to do so. |
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30 Sep 08 - 10:52 AM (#2453795) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: JohnInKansas Doesn't the current "bailout" correlate in some way with the "golden parachutes" so common among the thieves and pimps on Wall Street? John |
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30 Sep 08 - 11:13 AM (#2453813) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Amos TO "bail out" has two meanings: to remove water from a vessel (usually by hand and often as a desperat emeasure); and to free another from prison by paying their "bail money". Hay is not involved. I suspect, subject top further research, that the two terms come from the same root structure, probably akin to bailiff, also. Etymonline says: bail (v.) 1613, from baile "bucket" (1336), from O.Fr. baille "bucket," from M.L. *bajula (aquae), lit. "porter of water," from L. bajulare "to bear a burden" (see bail (n.1)). bail (n.1) "bond money," 1485, developed from "temporary release from jail" (1466), and that from earlier meaning "captivity, custody" (1259). From O.Fr. baillier "control, guard, deliver," from L. bajulare "to bear a burden," from bajulus "porter," of unknown origin. So it seems I was right--the underlying concept being "bear a burden", bajulare. A bailiff also comes from the Latin bajulus, porter or bearer of burdens, as does his jurisdiction, a bailiwick. A "bailey", related as well, is a wall enclosing an inner court, but its origin is not quite clear. |
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30 Sep 08 - 12:14 PM (#2453874) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: John MacKenzie Gee Amos, I wish I hadn't asked now! XG |
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30 Sep 08 - 01:42 PM (#2453984) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Bill D **giving Amos a baleful glance** |
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30 Sep 08 - 03:37 PM (#2454084) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: gnu And, "to flee", "to leave", "to decline participation". As in, "You wanna? Go ahead. I'm gonna bail." |
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30 Sep 08 - 03:45 PM (#2454092) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: heric Sink or sunk. |
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30 Sep 08 - 04:11 PM (#2454131) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Amos "Bail out" and "bail money" come from the same root as above. A |
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30 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM (#2454150) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: John MacKenzie root or route? [only works in the UK] XG |
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30 Sep 08 - 04:35 PM (#2454151) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: John MacKenzie As does boy and buoy ;) |
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30 Sep 08 - 05:39 PM (#2454200) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Q (Frank Staplin) Whatever happened to Lifebuoy? It controlled B. O. (Bail out). |
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30 Sep 08 - 05:43 PM (#2454206) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: John MacKenzie Can I hold your Palmolive? Not on your Lifebuoy! XG |
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30 Sep 08 - 06:08 PM (#2454226) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Bill D John! I haven't heard that since my father died...35 years ago. He is the only one I ever hear use it. He also said "Is May ready?" "May who?" "May-onnaise" "No, Mayonnaise is dressing." |
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30 Sep 08 - 06:40 PM (#2454247) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Rowan John's well known soap opera still gets an airing in my household. And the root/route, buoy/boy confusions work in Oz, as well as in the British Isles. While we're mentioning Wall St bankers and their ilk, having kicked an own goal they should be put in gaol. Without passing "Go". Cheers, Rowan |
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30 Sep 08 - 06:42 PM (#2454249) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Snuffy Sailors bail out a sinking boat Aircrew bale out of a plummeting plane |
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30 Sep 08 - 08:53 PM (#2454344) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Q (Frank Staplin) Aircrew bail out ... "To parachute from an aircraft;" to leave a harmful situation- Webster's Collegiate Dictionary; Also means to empty out a boat, or the device (bucket) used to bail out a boat, etc., or the hoop handle on a bucket, etc., or to deliver property in trust for a purpose such as release of a prisoner, or a device for confining animals; these from Webster's Collegiate. bail-out- "a rescue (as of a corporation)...." Note hyphen. Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, which gives a date of 1951 for this usage. ----------------------------------------------- Bale- Webster's Collegiate Dictionary: bale- woe or sorrow - a large bundle of goods - to make up into a bale |
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30 Sep 08 - 09:04 PM (#2454345) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: GUEST,heric Well, we can change that. |
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01 Oct 08 - 07:18 AM (#2454602) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Bee-dubya-ell People have been bailing out sinking ships for thousands of years. They've only been bailing out of disabled aircraft for about a hundred years. Early aviators probably just adopted the pre-existing nautical term instead of inventing their own. It's somewhat ironic that the two terms don't at all mean the same thing. The aim of a nautical bail out is to save the ship as well as the lives of the passengers and crew. The aim of an aircraft bail out is to save the lives of the crew only. (If there were any passengers on board, there probably wouldn't be enough parachutes to go around anyway.) The nautical term for the procedure analogous to bailing out of an air plane is "abandoning ship". The supposed objective of a financial bailout is to save the ship, primarily for the benefit of its passengers, not its crew. That crew has probably already bailed out, in the aviation sense of the term, leaving someone else to bail out the ship, in the nautical sense. |
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01 Oct 08 - 07:21 AM (#2454605) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: John MacKenzie Bald or balled? |
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01 Oct 08 - 06:43 PM (#2455221) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Rowan "Bail Up!" was the warning and instruction to halt given to the coach when it was being held up at gunpoint by bushrangers in 19th century Oz. But my first exposure to bails and bales was on my grandfather's dairy farm. Hay bales have already been dealt with but there were two sorts of bail. One was the mechanism used to restrain each cow's head while being milked; it was a lever that was held in the locked position by a simple ratchet and the cow munched on some fodder during the milking. The other "bail" was used in cricket. The bails are the two little turned pieces of timber that sit on the tops of the three stumps to form the wicket; if either (or both) should fall the batsman is given out. John, do you contemplate baldness and balledness? Cheers, Rowan |
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01 Oct 08 - 08:17 PM (#2455275) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Q (Frank Staplin) The bails in cricket are defined in the OED, but not mentioned in the American Webster's. This is expected, since Americans aren't sure if cricket is a game or a joke, so best not to mention it. The game takes hold if one watches it enough- One hot afternoon in England, I stopped walking to rest and nap and watched a local game taking place in a field alongside the path. Enjoyed it! |
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01 Oct 08 - 08:27 PM (#2455276) Subject: RE: BS: Bail or Bale From: Bee-dubya-ell Then there's the bail gizmo on spin-type fishing reels that releases or picks up line. You open the bail to cast, and close it to reel. If you attempt to cast with the bail closed, you often wind up with a lure imbedded in some part of your body. |