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02 Dec 08 - 12:58 PM (#2506020) Subject: BS: Fatherly or perverted? (Chambliss video) From: Genie Check out this video: GA Sen. Saxby Chambliss campaign video Today is the run-off election in Georgia for the US Sen. seat currently held by Saxby Chambliss (who there is reason to believe may have 'defeated' Sen. Max Cleland in 2002 via electronic voting machine fraud but I digress). This campaign video for Chambliss has more than a few eyebrows raised, with people seeing his manner of caressing of his daughter as inappropriate, to say the least. Personally, I'm not so sure there's anything incestuous going on. However, an Iranian (IIRC) Muslim immigrant man was arrested, prosecuted, jailed, and financially ruined a few years back, with his daughter being taken from him and given to a Christian family, because he caressed her, at a sports event (basketball?) in open view of everyone, in a manner deemed inappropriate by our culture. Since both these families are from the southeastern US, I'm wondering if the public and the law will apply a uniform standard or a double one. What do you guys think? Genie |
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02 Dec 08 - 01:07 PM (#2506031) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: kendall There is no question in my mind that this is inappropriate! |
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02 Dec 08 - 01:08 PM (#2506033) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: PoppaGator Whether or not he's guilty of incest, he's certainly guilty of idiocy for (a) doing that on camera and (b) releasing the video to the public. "I'm Saxby Chambliss and I approve this message"!!?!?!?!? WTF was the guy thinking? This may be coming to widespread attention a little too late to affect the election results . . . but even if he prevails, an ensuing shitstorm of controversy just might bring about a rexaminaiton of his highly suspicious defeat of Max Cleland, a true American hero |
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02 Dec 08 - 01:09 PM (#2506034) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: meself But that still leaves the question of whether or not it is innocent ... ? |
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02 Dec 08 - 01:17 PM (#2506042) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Joe Offer I think it's pretty clever video editing. I can't imagine that a United States Senator would be so stupid. I'll betcha it's a Photoshop job. -Joe- |
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02 Dec 08 - 01:44 PM (#2506058) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Bill D Indeed! I'd bet anything that was altered...it even LOOKS faked... Stupid trick! |
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02 Dec 08 - 01:57 PM (#2506066) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: jeffp Is there any evidence that it actually showed on TV? I can't imagine a campaign manager allowing that one to go out. Personally, I think that if it's real, it's perfectly innocent. That girl is way too young to have boobs, so he just gave her a hug, not realizing where his hand wound up. |
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02 Dec 08 - 01:59 PM (#2506071) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Bill D jeffp... it was quite explicit. And she is NOT too young. It was a clever fake. |
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02 Dec 08 - 02:19 PM (#2506087) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Bill D Ok...I played it one frame at a time on my PC. His hand remains totally still frame after frame, then moves a tiny bit in 4-5 consecutive frames,,,then jumps a large distance in the next, stays in exactly the same spot for one more frame, then jumps a large distance....the tipoff is that his head and shoulder do NOT move any closer to her in order to give the extra reach needed.....it's almost as if his arm grows longer. |
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02 Dec 08 - 02:25 PM (#2506092) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: greg stephens Some USA politics looks remarkably sick. Is this sort of smearing and fakery common over there? Especially odd that it extends to a folk music forum. Do all political parties have plants operating in all the esoteric forums? Does the Wasp Fanciers Message Board carryu this same sort of rubbiosh? The mind boggles. |
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02 Dec 08 - 02:27 PM (#2506094) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Riginslinger Sarah Palin says, "Chambliss, you betcha!" |
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02 Dec 08 - 02:33 PM (#2506099) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: CarolC I don't see how it could be faked. Her clothes respond to the movement of his hand exactly the way they should. |
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02 Dec 08 - 02:40 PM (#2506106) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Jim Dixon There is another copy of the same video at YouTube without the tendentious headline. It seems authentic to me. I couldn't find anything about it at his official campaign web site nor at his official Senate web site, nor could I find any comment about the video at Google News. Despite the headline at YouTube, I'd say that's more likely his granddaughter than his daughter. The two kids say "and vote for my big daddy". Does "big daddy" mean "grandpa"? Rather than a "caress" I'd call it a hug. The girl looks to be about 10 years old. Does she even HAVE boobs? If not, why should we care that he puts his hand on her chest? Would we care if it was a boy on his lap? Is there any evidence he is treating her any differently than he would treat a boy of the same age? The girl looks happy and comfortable on her grandpa's lap, being hugged by him. I don't think she would be happy and comfortable if he made a habit of groping her in an inappropriate way. I don't see any evidence that this hug was anything but totally innocent. I don't know anything about the Iranian man. Certainly double standards are odious, but I'd have to see what the Iranian man did, to know if a double standard were at work here. |
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02 Dec 08 - 03:01 PM (#2506129) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: VirginiaTam Nothing wrong in that video. And that opinion is from someone who has been on the receiving end of unwanted attention at a young age. I remember the story about the Iranian man massaging his toddler between the legs. Then I read up on the practice. Used to be quite wide spread in many cultures and ethnicities as little as a hundred years ago. Supposedly it wss something that was done absent mindedly to settle young children down. The reason? Probably because it was effective. I remember when children from some Native American tribes were thought to be unteachable and dishonest because they would not make eye contact with teachers. Did the educators bother to find out that making eye contact with an adult was considered a sign of disrespect? Not until decades to late. Lesson? Do not make blanket judgements. |
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02 Dec 08 - 03:10 PM (#2506136) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: meself Let's give the old guy the benefit of whatever doubt there is. The girl certainly does look comfortable and happy. (And if it was faked, whoever faked it should be taken out and horse-whipped). |
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02 Dec 08 - 03:14 PM (#2506138) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Bill D *shrug*... played frame-by-frame it seems to have problems, to me. You have to wonder how his hand extends that far without the rest of him moving. (you really can't follow it well, except frame-by-frame.) I assume that someone will comment if anyone makes an issue of it. It's been ot for 6 days, and I've seen no mention of it. |
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02 Dec 08 - 03:52 PM (#2506167) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: katlaughing As for the girl looking comfortable, it is amazing what behind the scenes threats and/or sweeping things under the carpet will do to keep a good face on when in public. In other words, she may look happy but what possible cost. I don't think he meant he was her grandfather, either and even if he was, he oughtn't to grab her boobs and YES a girl of ten can have the beginnings of boobs and be very sensitive about it. |
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02 Dec 08 - 04:07 PM (#2506181) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: meself "I don't think he meant he was her grandfather, either and even if he was," ? |
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02 Dec 08 - 04:25 PM (#2506195) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Joe Offer So, Bill, how do you play it one frame at a time? -Joe- |
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02 Dec 08 - 05:33 PM (#2506256) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Bill D Joe...I use either SMPlayer or The KMPlayer, but there are others which will play .FLV files. Each plays & pauses with the space bar. SMPlayer uses . (a period) and KMPlayer uses F for frame-by-frame advance. Now, to do this you must have the FLV file from YOUR cache loaded....you can't do it IN YouTube. I have mentioned a few times that everyone ought to learn how to find the files in their cache. (I have told my Opera browser exactly where *I* want my cache located.) It starts in "documents & settings...etc.", but I moved it by typing "opera:cache" and locating it and editing the Opera .ini file with a new location. There are also FLV downloaders, but I haven't used one recently, since I discovered that I already had the files. If you can't figure out your cache, you might want to Google FLV downloaders...there are several. |
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02 Dec 08 - 06:01 PM (#2506287) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Bill D cache in Firefox: http://www.digitalmediaminute.com/article/626 |
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02 Dec 08 - 06:32 PM (#2506327) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Ebbie I know nossing about frame by frame viewing and if Bill D sees something odd in the video in doing so, I tend to agree with him. But on the face of it, it looks innocent to me. Look at his wife's hand at the waist of the boy - her hand could just as easily have moved to his chest area, if she were emphasizing her speech. I don't like Chambliss but it looks to me as though, subconsciously perhaps, he was surprised at the softness of the girl's chest - and yes, I think she has breasts - and clutched tighter. And I think the girl knows it- see the beginning of her giggle? What does seem odd is that the video was released rather done over. |
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02 Dec 08 - 06:32 PM (#2506328) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: GUEST,TIA That is no fake. The girl's entire torso moves in response to the..uh...hug. Innocent? Probably (?) Stupid? You Betcha. |
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02 Dec 08 - 06:41 PM (#2506339) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Genie greg stephens: "Some USA politics looks remarkably sick. Is this sort of smearing and fakery common over there? " Unfortunately, Greg, smearing, fakery and outright lies are all too common in US politics, and that includes photoshopped photos and videos (not to mention audio and video selectively edited to give an entirely false impression. I've seen a lot more of it coming from the right than from the left, but it's hardly confined to those of any one particular political persuasion. "Especially odd that it extends to a folk music forum. Do all political parties have plants operating in all the esoteric forums?" There are "plants" operating all across the internet, greg. I'm not one of them, though. I honestly thought this was a real campaign ad that had been aired in Georgia. That's the way it was presented when I heard it talked about on radio. But if it's been photoshopped, that certainly would make more sense than what it originally appeared to be (an unedited ad that had already aired). I'm not convinced Chambliss's actions are weird or perverted, any more than I'm convinced that Iranian father was "sexually abusing" his daughter (who also seemed to be quite accepting of his fondling). On the one hand, if the girl in the Chambliss video is completely pre-pubescent and has no "boobs," then he's not really caressing a sexually relevant part of her anatomy. And even if she's begun to sprout breast buds, her dad or grandfather might be quite oblivious to it (anatomical changes in kids can happen almost overnight, or they can happen so gradually that their parents hardly notice them at first). But it's hard for me to believe someone running for re-election -- especially as a conservative Republican in a conservative southern state -- would let a video like that air, when the Zeitgeist today is one of hypervigilance re anything that remotely smacks of "sexual abuse." G |
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02 Dec 08 - 06:44 PM (#2506344) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Genie Oh, and, Ebbie - If the video is real, I think you've hit the nail on the head as to interpretation of Chambliss's actions. The question is, innocent as that may have been, wouldn't you think he or someone on his staff would have forseen how others might react to that footage and maybe reshot the ad? |
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02 Dec 08 - 07:18 PM (#2506372) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Ebbie Good gracious, yes. |
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02 Dec 08 - 07:25 PM (#2506377) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: meself Given all the ambiguity concerning the video - does anyone else think the title of this thread should be toned down a bit ... ? |
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02 Dec 08 - 07:53 PM (#2506399) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: akenaton Greg Stephens is 100% correct. The rest of you are a dirty minded shower! Do none of you have kids of you're own? If so, do YOU think of them in a sexual manner? For Christsake grow up...Ake |
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02 Dec 08 - 08:02 PM (#2506403) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: kendall I have three daughters and that video offends me. Furthermore, considering what this lying bastards did to Max Cleland, I hope this sinks him. |
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02 Dec 08 - 08:16 PM (#2506414) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: McGrath of Harlow I'm inclined to agree with akenaton. I can envisage a few years down the road anybody giving a cat or a dog a cuddle or a stroke will be liable to get accused of bestiality... |
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02 Dec 08 - 08:22 PM (#2506418) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Riginslinger The early returns show Chambliss way ahead! |
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02 Dec 08 - 09:33 PM (#2506453) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: pdq Anytime a slime piece like this appears 1-3 days before an election, it is to be assumed to be a dirty campaign trick. Anyway, Saxe Chambliss has won the runoff and will go back to Washington. Also, Norm Coleman seems to have survived the "Al Franken recount". Most people are happy to see that "Dirty Harry" Reid and Nancy Pelosi will not have a "veto-proof" majority. Half the people in the United States are members of the GOP and deserve a voice in the federal government. |
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02 Dec 08 - 09:44 PM (#2506460) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Bill D "Half the people in the United States" voted for Bush two terms, and would probably vote for Beelzebub if you tucked his tail in and gave him a Republican button! I don't think you'd be so free with 'sharing' if the Republicans had won 60%. Face it...the Republicans have not done a good job with their 8 years, and it IS time to make the process of fixing things as free from their foot-dragging as possible. |
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02 Dec 08 - 09:48 PM (#2506466) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Bobert Fake 'er not, I couldn't give a rat's ass... What I do care about is what this guy did to Max Cleland, a decortaed and severely disabled Vietnam vet... That was more disgusting then anything I saw in this video and it was unforgivable... Shame on you, Senator... Shame on you... B~ |
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02 Dec 08 - 10:12 PM (#2506482) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Jim Dixon My wife is a political activist, and politically astute enough to know who Saxby Chambliss is, even though we live in Minnesota and are pretty far removed from the action. I showed her the video—the one with the neutral headline (see my link above). She hadn't heard of the video before. I told her only that there was some controversy about the video, and asked if she could spot what was controversial about it. On the first viewing, despite paying close attention, she saw nothing. On the second viewing, she laughed and asked, "Is it his hand on the girl's chest?" I urge you to try the same experiment with people whose judgment you trust. Maybe it would help put things in perspective. There may be plenty of good reasons to vote against Chambliss, but this video is not one of them. |
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02 Dec 08 - 10:34 PM (#2506486) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: GUEST,TIA Where was all this concern about giving the minority a voice in government three years ago? Remember what happened then? Sure you do... the Republicans were maneuvering to eliminate the filibuster, and remove the "voice in government" for the other side. Show of hands please - who objected then? I am sure the Republicans will be true to their principal and not use the filibuster now. Yeah, right. In the last session, they set the record for the most filibusters ever in the history of the USA. |
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03 Dec 08 - 02:15 AM (#2506549) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Genie I agree, Bobert. The really disgusting things Saxby Chamliss has done were the dirty campaign tricks he did to Max Cleland back in 2002. You're so right, TIA. I surely didn't hear the Republicans touting the virtues of "bipartisanship" or warning about the dangers of "one-party domination" when THEY controlled Congress, the Presidency and the courts as well! LOL Now they're floating the meme that Chambliss's win "shows that most people want a balance of power and fear one party having a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate .. yadda yadda." Of course, when the Republicans filibuster bill after bill -- even those that have bipartisan, majority support -- they will be the first to go on the TV machine and the radio talk shows and badmouth the Democratic "do nothing Congress." It's really no surprise Chambliss won, since he beat Martin by at least 3 or 4 percentage points on Nov. 4, though he just missed the 50% mark. When you add that the same black-box, unverifiable voting machines that were used in 2002 are still used, statewide in Georgia, why would any other result be expected. (In 2002, I understand that Max Cleland was ahead by several percentage points both in pre-election polls right before the election and in the exit polls, but that techs from the voting machine company came into some heavily Democratic leaning precincts to apply "patches" tot he machines on election day and, voila!, Cleland ended up "losing" by the same margin that the polls had him winning by. |
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03 Dec 08 - 02:24 AM (#2506551) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Genie FWIW, pdq, the Dems aren't anywhere close to having a "VETO-proof majority" in either house of Congress (even if they were much in fear of Obama vetoing their bills). You claim "Half the people in the United States are members of the GOP and deserve a voice in the federal government." Well, stats I've heard recently say that more voters are registered Democratic than are registered Republican and that more eligible voters express a preference for the Democratic Party than for the Republican Party. And in this past election, Democratic voter registrations far outstripped Republican registrations (not counting Mickey Mouse or dead people -- I mean actual, state-issued voter registrations). That aside, sure, the minority parties deserve a voice in government. That's one real advantage to a parliamentary system of government over our winner-take-all, 2-party system. But I sure didn't hear Ruff Limppaw or Sean InSanity or the other right wing talking heads sounding off about how important it was for "the other half" to have a voice in government when their side "won" 2 consecutive Presidential elections by just thousands or even by just a few hundreds of votes. meself, as for the thread title -- note that it has a "?" in it -- it's hard to convey the gist of a thread when there's hardly room for anything more than a name (e.g., "GA Sen Chambliss"). I didn't want to simply use "GA Sen Chambliss video," because there are so many of them out there. If Joe O or someone else with editing magic wants to change the title, it's fine with me, but I do think the current title gives people a clear idea of what video it's about. |
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03 Dec 08 - 09:29 AM (#2506828) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Jim Dixon A clip from the video was used last night on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. |
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03 Dec 08 - 09:42 AM (#2506839) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: GUEST,heric That last surprises me. They're not being very nice to the little girl. |
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03 Dec 08 - 10:46 AM (#2506888) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor Intentional or not, the grope was not appropriate for television. She is wearing a low cut sweater. She knows he is entering woman hood. Do you think Bill Cosby could have done that to one of his TV daughters and stayed on the air? It shows the lack of political talent on the Republican side. This guy and Lindsey Graham seem to be the cream of the crop. Unless they come up with better candidates for Congress, the GOP is in big trouble. |
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03 Dec 08 - 01:45 PM (#2507012) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: McGrath of Harlow Evidently in such a nervous and overexcitable country, Obama will have to be careful how he behaves towards that dog he's getting... |
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03 Dec 08 - 03:57 PM (#2507106) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Jim Dixon Low-cut sweater? Take another look. Sure the blue-striped part looks low-cut, but there's something that looks like a white T-shirt underneath it, or possibly attached to it. With that in place, she's well covered up. Anyway, I'd bet she wasn't allowed to choose her own clothes for the video shoot. |
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04 Dec 08 - 03:24 AM (#2507420) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Genie Well, McGrath, you've got a point there, about Americans today being hypervigilant about "pedophilia," "child abuse," "sex offenses," etc. But I'd say it'd be truly stupid, politically, for Barack or any other politician to be video'd caressing the genital region of a puppy or the swollen mammaries of a mama dog. Some things are just bound to be taken the wrong way and held against you in (the) court (of public opinion). Genie |
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04 Dec 08 - 04:06 AM (#2507436) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: akenaton "Court of public opinion"???...... I really hope you're just havin' a laugh Genie. There is a more serious side to this shit. That even the relatively smart people who write here can suspend reason so easily...Ake |
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04 Dec 08 - 04:38 AM (#2507452) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Genie Hey, Ake, I'm just observing and commenting on the public opinion I'm hearing expressed about this video. As for laughs, I do think this video is kind of amusing in a WTF? kind of way - I mean, I still can't believe they didn't just reshoot it. It'd've been so simple. As for your views of me and my views, I do hope you've bothered to read the entire thread, Ake. ; ) G |
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04 Dec 08 - 10:45 AM (#2507661) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: GUEST,Michael I agree with PDQ. Its unlikly that of all the people in that campain who saw the end of the video wouldnt have caught it before putting it on the air. And if it was percevied inappropriate by the girl she would of said or done something, would she? Good fake, but i think we have alot more things to worry about than where the old guys hands have been. |
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04 Dec 08 - 10:54 AM (#2507673) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Bill D I did a search on "Chambliss/video/granddaughter" and found maybe 75% who were 'just offended', 15% who shrugged, and a few, like me, who seriously wondered if it had been doctored. I do now wonder why I don't see other versions....maybe he DID do it. |
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04 Dec 08 - 11:15 AM (#2507691) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: VirginiaTam Let this not be turned into a witch hunt. Who is organising the pitchforks? Who the torches? There is nothing wrong in that video and the child's reaction or lack of one is proof. If that girl was uncomfortable with the touch, her face or body would have registered it. This thread in it's entirety should be discouraged. The more said on it, then more comments show on the internet and subsequently the more generalisations are made. That makes that little girl a victim of our speculations not her grandfather. |
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04 Dec 08 - 12:01 PM (#2507722) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: GUEST,heric Seconded. This is nothing but an immature joke at a little girl's expense. (Not that I don't enjoy immature jokes.) |
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04 Dec 08 - 02:54 PM (#2507858) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Joe Offer Well, I was sure it was a fake, but it appears the video was posted by the Chambliss election campaign. I went to saxby.org and selected "watch Saxby on YouTube," and came up with this (click). I think his handlers should have culled this one out before it got posted. They certainly did a nice job on Website design. I'm surprised they didn't foresee that somebody would read nasty things into this video. -Joe- |
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04 Dec 08 - 03:07 PM (#2507877) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: Big Mick I wanted Chambliss to lose. Having said that, and having run campaigns and news events all the way up to the Presidential race in a major State; especially in light of the Palin/turkey slaughter video; I wonder how these folks staff, specifically their media/message persons, keep their jobs. I see nothing worth chastisement in that video for anyone except for the folks that should have caught it. I don't think this is evidence of a pervert, and find the use of the term to be gratuitous. Trying to damn your opponents through these types of stretches, in the end, just damages you and the causes you are fighting for. Chambliss is not a Larry Craig, or a Mark Foley. He should have been beat on the basis of factual issues, not weak attempts to paint him in an unsavory light based on this type of thing. Doing so means one is turning to Rove tactics. Be careful you don't become that thing which you so disdain. This is a time for cautious optimism in the political process, not Rovian style mudslinging based on specious issues. Just my opinion. All the best, Mick |
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04 Dec 08 - 03:43 PM (#2507922) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: akenaton Genie....."I mean, I still can't believe they didn't just reshoot it. It'd've been so simple" "Oh by the way sir we'd like to reshoot the video as it looks like you're touching your grand daughter indecently"......Very simple!! |
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04 Dec 08 - 04:01 PM (#2507936) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss a pervert? (Video) From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor How is Craig a pervert? He was soliciting consenting adults.... The location seems odd but I think it was probably chosen for convenience rather than arousal. Craig's major sins were lying and and adultery. As you said Chambliss should have know better. So should his staff. His mistakes in this matter are a lack of self awareness and a poor choice of staff. Jim, My point about the low cut sweater and the undershirt is that it is women's clothing. Not the clothing of a pre-adolescent. Englanders, You should perhaps save the hyperbole for an appropriate occasion. Genie was just asking a question, not making an accusation. As mature and enlighted as you pretend to be. If it were an MP from a party you didn't like, you might just have the same reaction. I lived in Georgia when Chambliss lied and created that senate seat away from triple amputee war hero Max Cleland by pretending that Cleland was somehow allied with Osama Bin Laden. I know Saxby as a stupidly arrogant, ignorant politician. This video has not changed that opinion. |
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04 Dec 08 - 04:13 PM (#2507951) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss - Questionable Video Ad From: Joe Offer Several people have asked that we delete this thread or change the thread title. One asked how the granddaughter would feel if she saw the title of this thread. Bills's suggested Chambliss/video/granddaughter Google brings up pages and pages on this issues, so the deleteion of a Mudcat thread won't make any difference to the granddaughter, one way or another. Nonetheless, the thread title didn't really reflect the balance of the discussion here, so I toned the thread title down a bit. I hope that's OK. -Joe- |
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04 Dec 08 - 04:25 PM (#2507970) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss - Questionable Video Ad From: VirginiaTam That is better Joe. I am not afraid to be counted as a delete the threader. As I said to you, I hope my Mudcat family has good sense not perpetuate the speculations any further. Chambliss doesn't deserve the oxygen of publicity generated by that video and it's detractors and that little girl needs to be protected. |
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04 Dec 08 - 04:34 PM (#2507985) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss - Questionable Video Ad From: Big Mick Perhaps, JtS, it would work better if you read the post for comprehension. Do you see the double space between the first and second paras? That means there is a division between the two contentions. The first one refers to the original thread name which was questioning whether he was a pervert. The second para goes to the suggestion that he was doing something that folks might think is immoral, hypocritical or indecent. As to Craig, I find him, as well as Foley to be hypocritical in light of their professed values, and guilty of indecent acts in the eyes of their (<-- read for comprehension alert) own constituencies. |
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04 Dec 08 - 04:40 PM (#2507992) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss - Questionable Video Ad From: heric Then again, you have to be a pervert to see perversion in that video (until you've been trained to see it.) Probably no one saw it, and, if they did, maybe they just decided to hell with the pervert constituency. |
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04 Dec 08 - 04:43 PM (#2507997) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss - Questionable Video Ad From: McGrath of Harlow probably chosen for convenience I don't think that's what public conveniences are supposed to be convenient for. ..................... If it were an MP from a party you didn't like, you might just have the same reaction. I rather doubt if too many people over here would be likely to interpret that video in the kind of way this thread assumes. I hope not anyway. Party doesn't come into it. |
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04 Dec 08 - 04:52 PM (#2508011) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss - Questionable Video Ad From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor Mick, I was reading the post in the context of the thread. Thanks for the clarification. As for worrying about the thread title hurting feelings of Saxby's granddaughter. Saxby should have thought of that before using her as a prop. If it's intentionally put in the public domain, I think its pretty much fair game. Isn't he and his staff obligated to protect his family from embarrassment when he uses them as political props. As I said, stupid, arrogant and ignorant. The people of Georgia have made a bad choice. Twice. |
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04 Dec 08 - 05:09 PM (#2508024) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss - Questionable Video Ad From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor McGrath, >>>probably chosen for convenience I don't think that's what public conveniences are supposed to be convenient for.<< Funny! >>I rather doubt if too many people over here would be likely to interpret that video in the kind of way this thread assumes. I hope not anyway. Party doesn't come into it. People tend to think the worse of people they don't like. Its human nature. I seen Brits attribute nasty inhuman motives to Mrs. Thatcher. From the outside it looked like she was sincerely trying to do what was best for the UK. On the other hand I hate Saxby the politician and I am not accusing him of anything more than stupidity. Would it have been so difficult for him to hug his grand daughter without putting his hands over her breasts? Were they so hurried that they could not have watched the tape after they shot it and sent it to air? |
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04 Dec 08 - 05:42 PM (#2508068) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss - Questionable Video Ad From: McGrath of Harlow There's a word that's been hovering over this thread - prurience. |
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04 Dec 08 - 06:45 PM (#2508120) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss - Questionable Video Ad From: Riginslinger American threads are sometimes like that. I think it has something to do with a Puritan background. |
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04 Dec 08 - 07:58 PM (#2508184) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss - Questionable Video Ad From: Genie Joe, I completely agree with the way you changed my thread title. (I'd have changed it myself after reading several people's comments, if I could have.) The edited title does convey the specific topic (as opposed to just "Saxby Chambliss" or "Chambliss campaign ad) but without any sensationalism or essentially calling Chambliss names just by way of a headline. I agree with many of the comments made here, by Bill D, Mick, meself, JTS, Kat, and others. It's not fully clear what Chambliss was thinking or even what the girl was, but I don't think it's evidence of any sort of perversion, though political discretion probably would have prompted reshooting the ad just to avoid giving the opposition any ammunition. As close to Karl Rovian tactics as Chambliss himself has been, one would think he's know that. But is anything in this ad the reason to oppose Chambliss? I don't think so. The double standard still does bother me though. I can't help thinking of that Muslim man - good family man, respected businessman and community member - whose life was ruined by the "prurient" overreaction of American southerners to his public touching of his toddler daughter in a way discrepant from our cultural standards. I wonder how many of the people who condemned him as a "pedophile" and "child abuser" are willing to give Chambliss the benefit of the doubt because he's a Christian conservative. G |
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04 Dec 08 - 08:28 PM (#2508200) Subject: RE: BS: GA Sen Chambliss - Questionable Video Ad From: Genie Oh, and BTW, (in case I didn't make it clear at the outset), what prompted my posting this thread in the first place and titling it as I did was that I was listening to the ad being discussed on several radio talk shows, in which people were DESCRIBING it as Chambliss grabbing his prepubescent daughter's boob (as though it would have been more appropriate if she were post-pubescent??). So I checked out the video to see what all the fuss was about. And even before seeing it, I wondered how someone could fondle the "boob" of a fully pre-pubescent girl. Upon seeing the ad, I found Chambliss's actions a little awkward and unusual and I was curious how others would interpret them. I think the variety and range of reactions have been interesting in and of themselves. But as to the idea of this thread topic or its original title being inappropriate, are we saying that a thread like "Obama is a socialist" amounts to Mudcat calling him a socialist (which, in the eyes of many opponents, amounts to calling him anti-American and a sympathizer with Soviet communism)? A few other, well, "provocative" recent thread titles here: BS: Obama-Fear is good for business BS: Obama in the Gutter? BS: Obama bin Laden???... BS: McCain --- Liar or Ignorant??? BS: Sarah Palin to Pose Nude for Playboy???. BS: Bush nuking the environment as he leaves BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals BS: Cheney Indicted: Arraignment Friday BS: Bush pardons self, Cheney BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney BS: Cheney Assumes Presidency BS: Is Cheney a Big Fat Liar???... Oh, well ....... |