|
13 Jan 09 - 08:42 AM (#2538684) Subject: BS: Any 'catters going to the Inauguration? From: GUEST,Mrr at work I'll be there, with bells on! |
|
13 Jan 09 - 11:44 AM (#2538808) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Rasener Why should I, he wouldn't come to mine! |
|
13 Jan 09 - 11:53 AM (#2538814) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: katlaughing We will have bells on in Colorado as we celebrate the New Beginning! Have fun, Mrr! |
|
13 Jan 09 - 12:51 PM (#2538871) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: PoppaGator Mrr ~ any chance you'll actually get close enough to see/hear? (Like reserved seats, tickets, etc.)? It may just be sour grapes on my part, because there's no way I can make a trip to DC, but I figure that I'll have a better seat in front of my TV than most of the pilgrims who will be descending upon the capital city with high hopes but no real preparation. |
|
13 Jan 09 - 01:49 PM (#2538932) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Rasener When is it? |
|
13 Jan 09 - 02:06 PM (#2538946) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Maryrrf I won't be there in person but I will certainly be there in spirit, as will many Americans, I'm sure. I am so glad that we are beginning a new chapter in our nation's social and political history. However, I can't stand crowds and I agree with PoppaGator - I'll enjoy it more watching it on TV. |
|
13 Jan 09 - 02:11 PM (#2538949) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Skivee Next Tuesday 12:00Eastern Time...Z-5hrs I've decided to pass on seeing it in person. I only live about 10 miles away. I had imagined shooting wonderful historic photos from 1/2 mile away with the 800mm lens; but I just heard an estimate of 5-8 miles of walking for attendees. Carrying tripods, lenses, other gear would make this tedious. I'll watch it on the telly. ps. I love that he is being sworn in on Lincoln's inauggural bible. |
|
13 Jan 09 - 03:35 PM (#2539044) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: GUEST,Mrr No, I don't anticipate actually SEEING anything other than the crowd - I'm going to be with the crowd, not to see. Those who want to see, you are all so right, should stay home and watch TV. But if you want to be in a crowd of millions, come on down! or over, or up, or whatever! And don't say "shoot" either, the Secret Service will detonate you, or something... |
|
13 Jan 09 - 03:44 PM (#2539052) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Rasener Mrr - thats exactly waht I thought :-) Any mention of Shooting - oh my god don't even go down that root. I still haven't forgot John F Kennedy. |
|
13 Jan 09 - 03:49 PM (#2539058) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Skivee "And don't say "shoot" either, the Secret Service will detonate you, or something". I've never had much trouble from Secret Service folks. Mostly pretty cool folks doing a tough job. It's the walking for miles carrying 30 lbs (really) of gear that would be the suck. |
|
13 Jan 09 - 03:50 PM (#2539060) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: beardedbruce I'll be at work, in Sterling, VA. Should be interesting, though. |
|
13 Jan 09 - 04:44 PM (#2539104) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: akenaton A very good friend of mine has an invitation,she also hopes to meet Mr Obama and his wife. I look forward to reports on her return. |
|
13 Jan 09 - 08:32 PM (#2539254) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Bill D I live 'almost' as close as Skivee, but it will be COLD...and 2 million people looking for bathrooms.....nope. I 'could' venture down on Metro and see how it goes, but I ain't as young as I was when I traveled (1969 March Against Death)from Kansas for 22 hours, slept on a church floor, stood for hours on the mall, got BACK on a bus and traveled 22 hours home..... (I considered offering bed space on CraigsList...but it just seemed too much, and after a few weeks, everyone was situated...I guess. ) I sure hope it is worth it, Mrrzy |
|
13 Jan 09 - 09:45 PM (#2539285) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Rapparee TEN THOUSAND tour buses???? I agree with my DC-area relatives-in-law -- fuggetaboutit. I'll watch on TV. (One is "going" with her daughter. They're going to her office at EPA and watching from the window.) |
|
13 Jan 09 - 10:11 PM (#2539298) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Jeri I was asked by someone with tickets who's going with a bunch of folks, but I haven't been at work so lost contact with the person. Not that I couldn't get in touch somehow, but I really hate crowds. Yes, it will be a Time to Remember, but can you imagine the lines for the toilets!? I'll watch on TV. |
|
13 Jan 09 - 10:40 PM (#2539308) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Melissa My nephew is going..his band is playing. |
|
14 Jan 09 - 12:41 AM (#2539351) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Little Hawk Not me. But Chongo says he'll be there. |
|
14 Jan 09 - 01:00 AM (#2539354) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: JohnInKansas We received a very impressive looking Invitation to the Inauguration in the snail mail today. Immaculately printed on very heavy simulated parchement, with an accompanying letter on thinner - but still excellent quality - paper. The source was identified as "The Presidential Inauguration Committee," which sounds quite authentic but is not any unique organization recognized by Google. I'm not sure why they thought we needed an invitation to "The Inauguration" since that's an open-to-the-public thing, and they didn't mention anything about tickets to the associated events that do require that you purchase tickets, or that you receive an invitation that includes a "pass." But there was a small pamphlet indentifying several "Inauguration Memoriabilia" items that are available, with a website where we were informed that we could purchase them. I didn't check the prices. John |
|
14 Jan 09 - 07:18 AM (#2539490) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: GUEST,beardedbruce 'Father of Potty Parity' calls 5,000 johns 'inadequate' January 13, 2009 - 10:29am WASHINGTON - The masses heading to the inauguration of President-elect Barack Obama could spend a lot of time in line for a port-a-potty. A George Washington University law professor says the 5,000 port-o-potties planned for Inauguration Day will be "grossly inadequate." Professor John Banzhaf, the so-called "Father of Potty Parity" sent a letter to the Presidential Inaugural Committee warning of potential lawsuits. He says women, who take longer in the restroom, could be forced to wait in longer lines than men, and that amounts to discrimination. Banzhaf says waiting in long lines is not just an inconvenience. It can trigger medical problems. He's asking the Presidential Inaugural Committee to make the toilets gender-neutral so that women do not have to wait longer than men. (Copyright 2009 by MetroSource. All Rights Reserved.) WASHINGTON - The masses heading to the inauguration of President-elect Barack Obama could spend a lot of time in line for a port-a-potty. A George Washington University law professor says the 5,000 port-o-potties planned for Inauguration Day will be "grossly inadequate." Professor John Banzhaf, the so-called "Father of Potty Parity" sent a letter to the Presidential Inaugural Committee warning of potential lawsuits. He says women, who take longer in the restroom, could be forced to wait in longer lines than men, and that amounts to discrimination. Banzhaf says waiting in long lines is not just an inconvenience. It can trigger medical problems. He's asking the Presidential Inaugural Committee to make the toilets gender-neutral so that women do not have to wait longer than men. |
|
14 Jan 09 - 07:19 AM (#2539493) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: GUEST,MarkS (on the road) Dress warm! |
|
14 Jan 09 - 09:16 AM (#2539589) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Rapparee So, let's say there's only 2,000,000 people and there are 5,000 portapotties. Unless my math is wrong that one john for every 2,000 people. Wikipedia Answers suggest a ratio of 1 to 50; other sites suggest 1 to 15, especially when there are children. Even opening the toilets in the various museums and things still wouldn't affect the ratio much. AND I'm being very conservative here. Looks like there will be a LOT of "other cleaning up" to do.... |
|
14 Jan 09 - 09:23 AM (#2539591) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: PoppaGator "Potty Parity," huh? It'll be so cold that waiting on line won't be the worst part ~ can you imagine finally reaching the head of the queue and then having to sit on a frozen cold porta-potty seat? Males making #1 won't have to face that eventuality, but more than half the attendees will. None for me, thanks. Many many years ago I made a couple of trips to DC for gigantic "mobilization" demonstrations, where the crowd itself was the event. Being in midst of thousands of folks, unable to see anything except the backs of countless heads, did not, on those cases, constitute "missing" anything ~ we were what was happening. (Even though, in the end, no one was able to levitate the Pentagon...) An inauguration is something else entirely. Unless you can see and/or hear the swearing-in, you will be missing the event. And only a small fraction of the multitudes descending upon the city will find themselves in such a position. |
|
14 Jan 09 - 09:29 AM (#2539593) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Rapparee I figger that the last tour bus will be able to leave town sometime in early June. Mind you, there will still be leftover folks from the Inauguration walking off the Mall in early November..... |
|
14 Jan 09 - 09:32 AM (#2539595) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: beardedbruce "Even opening the toilets in the various museums and things still wouldn't affect the ratio much." Actually, they are closing the other restrooms, to keep crowds out of buildings. |
|
14 Jan 09 - 09:39 AM (#2539601) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Bill D Make a small fortune....set up stalls on street corners leading to the Mall and sell various sizes of "Depends". |
|
14 Jan 09 - 10:28 AM (#2539644) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Amos OR even those bag-in-your-pants inventions for avoiding emergencies. We received the same invitation as John, which is now framed and hanging in my office as a historical footnote. A |
|
14 Jan 09 - 11:08 AM (#2539681) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: jeffp My home is in Howard County, Maryland, and my job is in Alexandria, Virginia. I will be safe and warm at home telecommuting while I watch the whole thing on TV. |
|
14 Jan 09 - 11:38 AM (#2539682) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Rapparee I will be safe and warm at work, 2,000 miles away. |
|
14 Jan 09 - 11:46 AM (#2539688) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: catspaw49 Yeah Rap.........And the traffic will be backed to to where you are in Idaho. Much as I might have loved to do this when I was 20, there ain't enough money to pay me to go. From all the news reports this will be the gridlocked crowd to end all gridlocked crowds. Me and my TV will enjoy it! Spaw |
|
14 Jan 09 - 12:56 PM (#2539702) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Amos I will be there in spirit, and will cruise the scene via my desktop, where I will be warm, in reach of a coffeepot, and within a short walk to a bathroom with a clean floor. A |
|
14 Jan 09 - 01:09 PM (#2539713) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inaugurat From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Hi Kids: I think that all 'Catters(and Guests) will be there. If not in person, perhaps spiritually. Because what's happening at THIS event is more than just an inauguration. It's a psychological transition that will speak to minorities around the world. Both children and adults will witness the miracle of a black man with the right qualities transcending the bigotry of the past and present. It will send a message to young blacks and minorities that not only can they be IN the game, they now; with the right stuff, can WIN it. This will be one of the most important days in world history. My prayers go out to Mr. Obama...Both for Guidance and Protection by the Creator... bob |
|
15 Jan 09 - 08:21 AM (#2540145) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: akenaton I think you are using the wrong sort of language Mr Ryszkiewicz, I know it's all a game but do you seriously think the game is winnable for anyone other than the elite? Do you think that money and priviledge will somehow disappear from the equation? Miss Rice was black, smart and powerful, yet still did her masters' bidding...Ake |
|
15 Jan 09 - 08:35 AM (#2540163) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: GUEST,Mrr Depends! Now that's an idea! (the kids can pee in the bushes, they are boys...) |
|
15 Jan 09 - 08:38 AM (#2540167) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: quokka Surely we can hope for something better than the last few years, Ake? surely we can hope. and best of luck, and maybe some wisdom. I am not from the US, but we are all world citizens, and I wish you guys all the best in the difficult times ahead. |
|
15 Jan 09 - 08:55 AM (#2540192) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Little Hawk "He says women, who take longer in the restroom, could be forced to wait in longer lines than men, and that amounts to discrimination." Discrimination???????????????????????????????????????? HA! No, that amounts to life. Life usually involves some inconvenience, specially if too many people all try to do the same thing at the same time in the same place and with inadequate resources. To call it "discrimination" is, well, just a bit ridiculous. To suggest sueing someone over it is downright asinine. In Orillia, Ontario, Canada though, we already have porta-potties that are gender-neutral so that our women don't have to wait longer to use the public facilities. All our porta-potties are gender-neutral, for gosh sakes! Maybe Banzhaf is onto something. He could be a closet Canadian sympathizer, sent to disrupt and subvert the American presidential inauguration! ;-) |
|
15 Jan 09 - 09:33 AM (#2540256) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: McGrath of Harlow With your Martin Luther King Day falling on the day before the inauguration you've got a two day celebration coming up. Enjoy. |
|
15 Jan 09 - 11:01 AM (#2540381) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inaugurat From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Akenaton: You, of course, can think what you will. But for me, the vision was not myopic, and not singularly referring to the Office of the President. The reference of "game" could apply to whatever job, business, career, or dream that all those kids(and adults) who will be watching will be thinking of accomplishing. Hopefully, they will be inspired by Mr. Obama and say, "Hey, I can do something great too..." And with the right group of Bandidos, ANYTHING can happen... bob... Ole' :0) |
|
15 Jan 09 - 11:22 AM (#2540411) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Little Hawk I don't think Obama's given you adequate cause yet to hate him as much as you seem to, Ake. ;-) I think you ought to allow him a few months...or at least a few weeks in office before you take the gloves off and start throwing punches. He has not yet earned your disapprobation. True, he is the leader of the most arrogant and vainglorious superpower in the world...but he can't help that. He was born there. Now he gets to be in the hotseat of hell for 4 years, and risks much in so doing. Give the man a chance. Give him the kind of chance you would wish to be given yourself, if you ever found yourself in a similar position. Remember, you can still always despise him later...when he has actually had a chance to do some things in office that you can legitimately despise him for. Then think how much more emotionally satisfying it will be. ;-) |
|
15 Jan 09 - 02:51 PM (#2540617) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: akenaton Come on Hawk.....you know I don't hate Mr Obama, you also know who runs America! I was simply trying to temper Guest's euphoria with a little realism; there is much political naivety around at present, and I wouldn't like any impressionable mudcatters to leave this thread under the illusion that everything is going to be "all right" simply because the American media have elected a black man. As I have stated elsewhere, we had our own Mr Obama ten years ago. The election of Mr Blair was to usher in a period of "ethical foreign policy", instead Mr Blair shamed the electorate by following America into a half baked crusade to repair her damaged prestige. That crusade used to be known as the "War on Terror", a phrase we seldom hear nowadays;it culminated in the horror of Iraq and Afghanistan, leaving Mr Blairs rhetoric in tatters, like the bodies of the dead on both sides. Mr Blairs domestic policies were no better, when he left power the "rich poor divide" was wider than ever and the economy nearing meltdown. Mr Obama is a supporter of the Capitalist system, just like Blair; and if things ever do improve in the financial sector, he will support de-regulation just like Mr Blair and Mr Brown did, because that is what his masters will demand! And so the cycle goes on, the poor paying the tab till they can pay no longer....Ake |
|
15 Jan 09 - 02:55 PM (#2540621) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Jeri You guys could maybe try for enough self control to talk about the subject, which is 'catters going to the inauguration - and not use it as yet another place to bitch about another country's politics. |
|
15 Jan 09 - 03:04 PM (#2540629) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Little Hawk Well, Ake, until America stops being capitalist it will always have a president who supports the capitalist system, won't it? It's inevitable. It would be foolish to expect or demand otherwise. Yes, I know who runs the SySStem...the very rich run the SySStem. In any case, I like a healthy mixture of capitalism and socialism in a society...which is what we more or less have in Canada and most of western Europe right now. I hope Obama will move toward a system more like that, but I won't be too surprised if he doesn't, because the powers arrayed against anyone doing that in the USA are enormous. I figure he will either work with them fairly much as usual or they'll destroy him. I would love to go to that inauguration, but I wouldn't want to put up with the crowds and all that, so I'll just watch it from afar. |
|
15 Jan 09 - 03:21 PM (#2540639) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: McGrath of Harlow "we had our own Mr Obama ten years ago." Just list all the similarities. Young(ish) and able to talk in public without putting his foot in his mouth. And quite a lot of people thought he'd be better than the last lot in power. That's about it. |
|
15 Jan 09 - 03:51 PM (#2540671) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: akenaton Yes thats about it McGrath!....Oh yes I fogot about the CHANGE thing, and that Blair was perceived to be centre left just like Mr Obama! Jeri if you had rfead the thread you might have noticed that a friend of mine is travelling from UK to the inauguration. Her family is apparently very big in Chicago Dem politics, she showed me a photo, they all wore suits with bulging inside pockets and apparently they're heavily into rap music....Ake |
|
15 Jan 09 - 04:09 PM (#2540691) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inaugurat From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Found this on Yahoo... http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090115/ts_alt_afp/uspoliticsobamachildren Maybe if we all row the boat in the same direction... bob |
|
15 Jan 09 - 04:12 PM (#2540693) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Jeri I did see that post you made a couple of days ago. I was mainly referring to the three you've made since. This thread isn't a debate, and I will stop bitching about debaters, but the debaters should take advantage of some other thread about Obama. |
|
15 Jan 09 - 04:26 PM (#2540711) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: akenaton I think guest's euphoric post invited debate? |
|
15 Jan 09 - 05:21 PM (#2540747) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: McGrath of Harlow "I'll be there, with bells on" seems a quite reasonable and measured level of euphoria to mark the replacement of George Bush by a recognisable member of the human race. What have you got against bells anyway, akenaton? Just because they don't have Morris Dancers in Scotland... Regardless of whether Obama lives up to all the hopes that have built up around him - could anyone? - the fact that Americans have pretty convincgly voted for a black man promises to be a nail,in the coffin of racism in America. Of course the corpse of racism still has to be nailed down into that coffin and planted underground- its still running around killing people like a zombie in a movie (for example). But this last election in itself represents a significant advance, and it's worth celebrating, |
|
15 Jan 09 - 06:35 PM (#2540832) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: DougR I think not. DougR |
|
15 Jan 09 - 07:04 PM (#2540851) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Ebbie "I wouldn't like any impressionable mudcatters to leave this thread under the illusion that everything is going to be "all right" simply because the American media have elected a black man." ake Thanks for your efforts in educating this "impressionable mudcatter". In my opinion- and in my experience - the most important part of Barack Obama's grasping the helm is not that he is a "man of color/colour". That is nice and I am proud and hopeful about it but it is just the icing on the cake. Far more important is that he is an articulate person of vision, one who appears to have integrity and insight and a clarity of purpose. Frankly, I have sincere doubts that anyone on earth can remedy our ills immediately - but a change of direction is at least a start. As for me, no, I'm not going to the inauguration. W A Y too many people. However, I am taking the day off work and attending an Inauguration Day party at our local Centennial Hall. The way I see it, this is a once in a lifetime event and I want to 'be there'. East Coast time is four hours ahead of Alaska so our breakfast, speechifying and seats athwart a big-screen television will run from 7:15 to 10:00. (Well, maybe not 'athwart') |
|
15 Jan 09 - 07:15 PM (#2540867) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: McGrath of Harlow Well, Doug, McCain did seem to indicate that, though he'd sooner have won himself, he saw the fact that Americans felt able to elect a black candidate as president as something to rejoice in. Listen once again to that gracious concession speech McCain made after his defeat, or read it here: ... America today is a world away from the cruel and prideful bigotry of that time. There is no better evidence of this than the election of an African American to the presidency of the United States....Senator Obama has achieved a great thing for himself and for his country. I applaud him for it... |
|
17 Jan 09 - 03:46 PM (#2541597) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: akenaton On the other hand there's THIS If that dip in the cold "briny" is to much for our "liberal", the Disney version ca be viewed over on the other thread...Ake |
|
17 Jan 09 - 04:49 PM (#2541660) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Ebbie The world is a more complex place than you seem to allow, ake. Critical thinking and analysis, even when it seems harsh, is a necessary component of freedom. Even if its conclusions are mistaken, or only partially correct. It does not mean, as you seem to think, that one is writing off an event or a person or a situation. I think that often the critical person is actually as full of hope as anyone else. Just worried. Here are some snippets from a roundtable discussion that lends more light: Amy Goodman: "Your response to the election of Barack Hussein Obama as president of the United States?" JOHN PILGER: "Well, my response, Amy, is that really anyone was better than Bush and the Bush administration. Having experienced election night in the United States and then seeing the response here, I feel that it's time that analysis and critical thinking took over and that those of us who wish to think that way, who wish to think critically, really should start addressing the—this rather manipulated emotional response. "... But I do think we have to consider President-elect Obama as a man of the system." "Michael Moore had it right when he said the other day, let's hope that Obama breaks all his election promises, as politicians generally do, because all his election promises, in terms of foreign policy, are a continuation of business as usual. And even if there is a return to what used to be called a multilateral world, I think there has to be critical analysis of the return to the pretensions of America as a peacemaker around the world. We had to endure this, and I mean endure it during the Clinton years, and I don't think that we, in the rest of the world, ought to have to endure it now through the Obama years, so that we have a continuation, if you like, of liberalism as a divisive, almost war-making ideology, being used to destroy liberalism as a reality, because that has gone on under so-called liberal presidents, from Kennedy to Clinton, Democratic presidents. And President-elect Obama suggests to us, in his promises, that he is going to continue that, bombing Pakistan and Afghanistan. "Someone said to me—in fact, I was talking to my daughter when I got off the plane from Houston this morning, and she was—said, "What was it like over there?" And we were discussing it, and I said, "Well, it comes down to, I suppose, asking an Afghan child how they feel when their family has been destroyed by a 500-pound bunker-busting bomb dropped by the United States and dropped by President Obama, as he continues that war. I think that's the reality that we really have to begin to discuss now, having celebrated, and rightly celebrated, the ascent of the first African American president of the United States." JUAN GONZALEZ: "And, John Pilger, what sign would you look for in these early days now, as Obama begins to move to a—in a transition period, that would indicate to you that he may be—he would be trying to break, in one way or other, from this neoliberalism of the Clinton years?" JOHN PILGER: "Well, it's difficult to know. Breaking from the Bush years is going to be the first, and I suppose breaking from the Bush years means actually talking to people and negotiating. I think breaking from, let's say, the Democratic years—the Bush, yes—the Clinton years will mean giving us a sign that the ideological, rapacious, war-making machine that has been built over many years and reinforced, as perhaps never before during the eight years of Bush, that that ideological machine does not transcend a loss of electoral power "You see, that's really the central issue here, that a kind of ideological consensus has been built under Bush. Now, yes, Obama has been voted in, but will that vote, will that—will a new president transcend the—this ideological machine? "Look, in answer to your question, I think he has to—in order to show that he is in any way different, he has to start dismantling this machine, for example, going against his promise to continue the embargo on Cuba, to drop that; to reach out to the governments of Venezuela and Bolivia and Ecuador, each of which is under attack, subversive attack by the United States; to face the reality that Afghanistan is a colonial war; and to not let the so-called withdrawal from Iraq be a sham, that it leaves these so-called enduring bases. That, any one of those, any change in one of those, would indicate that Obama is truly different. MAHMOOD MAMDANI: Well, I think John Pilger has given a good account of the limits within which Obama will operate. And perhaps I should talk about the possibilities within those limits. "When the Cold War ended, the losing power in the Cold War, the Soviet Union, began a process of reform. The US never did begin a process of reform. Instead, it embarked on a war on terror after 9/11, in order to build on the military machine inherited from the Cold War. And the war on terror, we know, has been mainly an advertising campaign, a lethal advertising campaign. "So I agree with Pilger that Obama's first task is going to be to cut through this ideological sham and to bring the American people to face realities. "The most that Obama can contribute, within the context of being the president of an imperial power, is to recognize the changing world situation, to recognize that this is the end of the era of a single superpower, that the US will operate amongst several powers, that the US has to learn to live in the world rather than simply to occupy it. "And I think there are several indications from the campaign—I mean, the campaign was full of extreme and contradictory promises and provocations. But if you look on the side of the promises, there are indications that this is within the realm of the possible. There is the discussion of the need to speak to the president of Iran without any preconditions. There is that remarkable primary debate with Hillary and Edwards, where a reporter asked the three of them who would Martin Luther King support on this day, and Hillary and Edwards responded by convincing the audience why King would have supported them. And Obama responded by saying King would not have supported anybody, that King would have organized his movement to push the winning candidate to pursue the objectives. Well, that's the real question now in the US today. "Will America recognize, as I believe South Africa has after the election of Mandela, that the election of Mandela was not change, but an opportunity to change? And whether that opportunity is realized and transformed into a program of social justice within the country and peace abroad will depend on the movement that pushes Obama and gives him the opportunity to respond to it. Lots More We shall see what we shall see. But it's going to take time. Lots of it. There are some people who, with the first disappointment - and there will be many - will write off the whole effort. They will be missing the point. |
|
17 Jan 09 - 05:55 PM (#2541709) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: akenaton Thanks for posting that discussion Ebbie, I understand what you say and hope you are right and I am wrong. Having lived through the last ten years in the UK under Blair, I can't help comparing his rise to that of Mr Obama, If Mr Obama is sincere in his wish for a change in direction, why is there not one voice from the left in his administration....I have never been able to understand why! I agree with Pilger in that, if Mr Obama's tenure does turn out to be a "false dawn", the American people, now more politicised than at any time in their history, may at last take affairs into their own hands. I have said many times that I believe a movement for real freedom can be initiated by the Americans. Their general lack of cynicism can be their greatest strength. I also don't think you and I are so far appart Ebbie, you are certainly not one of the illiberal "liberals" of whom John Pilger is so contemptuous.....Ake |
|
17 Jan 09 - 06:24 PM (#2541735) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Ebbie Thanks, Ake. |
|
17 Jan 09 - 08:48 PM (#2541820) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Donuel I'm bringing one large and 2 small video cameras. 1,200 homeless people in DC will be sheltered until Thursday when the Inaugural operation Clean Sweep ends. |
|
17 Jan 09 - 09:57 PM (#2541843) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Tinker My daughter at George Washington University in the heart of foggy bottom will be on a float in the parade, and hosting a congressional reception for the alumi who made it possible. Somehow she ended up as the student government Director of Diversity Affairs and administrtive assistant to float production .... lots of big words for filing out forms and ordering coats and hats and stuff. I'll be watching warmly at home and hope for a few photos. |
|
17 Jan 09 - 10:29 PM (#2541857) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Donuel I believe that if one has never gone to a mudcat gathering, joined in song and had a great time one can not have the unique distinction of being a 'catter bestowed upon them. But catter or not I'm goin while the wife and kids stay warm watching TV. |
|
17 Jan 09 - 11:53 PM (#2541905) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inaugurat From: Amos DOnuel: Don't be silly. Of course you are a 'Catter. Ake and Ebbie: The discussion from Pilger et al is very interesting. It strikes me as odd that he seems to blame the military on Clinton when the ,military was reduced in size during the Clinton years, AFAIL. But the other thing is that I think he misestimates what is involved in moving the nation in the direction he wants it to go. The President, despite all of Rove's efforts, is not a dictatorship; for Obama to strive to unilaterally order the stand-down of the military industrial complex in a few sweeping dictates would be stupid beyond belief, simply because it would result in failure and a collapse of any power he had to accomplish anything further. It is one thing to imagine a good change, and another altogether to move a whole nation through that change' it is like the difference between steering a helium balloon and steering an aircraft carrier. A A |
|
18 Jan 09 - 05:31 AM (#2541989) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: goatfell aye I'm from Scotland and if I could I would be there to make sure Bush is well away from the button |
|
18 Jan 09 - 05:41 AM (#2541992) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: GUEST,Joy Bringer Why would anyone want to go to this ? I know a white man would never get the position in Africa or India and if he did it's highly unlikely the community over there would be acting like love sick school kids going on about it. So many people must live very sad lives when this is all they have to look forward to. I imagine there are one or two in the Southern states of American giving it great consideration too ! |
|
18 Jan 09 - 10:03 AM (#2542153) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: GUEST,Edthefolkie We'll be watching on the BBC, not in Hi-Def unfortunately. I missed Kennedy's inauguration and the moon landing but I'm damn well not missing this one. By the way you folks over there, if you want a really good toilet bloke (see worried postings about DC pottie problems) the chap who does the loos at Cropredy Festival would have no problem with a Presidential inauguration. He's a morris dancer too! |
|
18 Jan 09 - 10:06 AM (#2542156) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: wysiwyg Our Bish is, in some official capacity (former Dean, Wash Nat'l Cathedral), and I'll hear his reflections a few days after, at several meetings. ~S~ |
|
18 Jan 09 - 10:24 AM (#2542170) Subject: RE: BS: Any 'catters going to Presidents Inauguration? From: Jeri I have to remember to watch (or listen to) the concert today. If I'd gone down there, I likely would have come home to a house and land covered with snow, much like in that movie... was it 'The Day After Tomorrow'? I hope to look at photos and hear reports after the fact. |