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08 Mar 09 - 09:32 PM (#2584271) Subject: Pronouncing Karpeles, etc From: GUEST,Young Johnson Hello, I'm interested in the early history of the English folk revival, but since most of the personnel are long dead and rarely spoken of aloud, I'm wondering how some of their names were pronounced. Maud Karpeles - CAR-pulls, CAR-pullers, CAR-per-lees? Sabine Bearing-Gould - Sa-BEEN or SAY-bine? Feel free to add any other names to the discussion. Much obliged... |
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08 Mar 09 - 10:29 PM (#2584304) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Joe Offer You have to belong to the club before you know those things. I don't belong to the club, so I am forever condemned to looking stupid while people giggle at me behind my back. But I think it's suh-BEAN AND CAR-pull-us Oh, and I DO know it's pronounced RAFE vaughan williams. My dog, on the other hand, is "Ralph," pronounced "raalf" - named after Ralph Cramden on the Honeymooners. How sweet it is! -Joe- |
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08 Mar 09 - 10:50 PM (#2584313) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Gurney I always thought it was Car-pee-lis and Say-byne, but what do I know? Rafe is the English way of pronouncing that name. Raalf is the Scots way. |
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08 Mar 09 - 10:52 PM (#2584315) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Rowan I'm out of the same club as Joe but I used to know some of the characters who gave everyone the impression they'd been in it when Maude Karpeles and Sabine Baring Gould were still around. If you forgive the Oz accent Maude's surname was always (around here, anyway) pronounced Kar-pellies and Baring Gould's given name was pronounced Sa (as in "cat")-been. But I have since met women with German parentage who were named Sabine and who pronounced it Suh- been-uh. Cheers, Rowan |
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08 Mar 09 - 11:50 PM (#2584342) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Gurney Bertha. Ber-thah in England, Bee-ar-tah in Denmark and Germany? Not used in England since Victorian times. They built a huge traction engine and called it 'Big Bertha.' Not popular since. Funny, that. |
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08 Mar 09 - 11:58 PM (#2584353) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Barbara Cicely Fox Smith. Sis uh lee or Sigh suh lee? Blessings, Barbara |
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09 Mar 09 - 04:46 AM (#2584430) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Dave Hanson It's Sabine pronounced ' say been ' and Karpeles pronounced ' car pel ees ' Dave H |
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09 Mar 09 - 06:20 AM (#2584475) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Richard Bridge Interesting. In the legend of the rape of the Sabine women it's short first "a" (like "bang") and then "bine" to rhyme with "mine". I have never met a Cicely who wasn't "Si" (short "i" like "bit") then "silly". My next door neighbour in Australia was Bertha Dotch. Yes she was. Short but powerful. First syllable like "birth", final "a" short and almost un-sounded. |
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09 Mar 09 - 06:58 AM (#2584507) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: bubblyrat Think yourself lucky you don't have to cope with some of our more bizarre English surnames ; ffoulkes ( Fooks) ( yes---it starts with a small "f") Mainwaring ( Mannering) Cholmondeley ( Chumly) Featherstonehaugh ( Fanshaw) Marjoribanks (Marchbanks) I just love some of our names,actually---Our Ambassador to the US once was Sir Crispin Tickell ( Tick-Ell, of course,not ,sadly,Tickle !) Then there was our unfortunate Admiral, Sir Cloudesley Shovell ( Shove-Ell, not Shovel !) And we musn't forget our famous explorer,whose full name is Sir Ranulph Twisleton-Wickham-Fiennes. Oh yes ! And "Robotham " is pronounced "Row Bottom" ... (Naturally ). |
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09 Mar 09 - 07:03 AM (#2584511) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: DMcG Mt Everest is named after Sir George Everest, but he is supposed to have pronounced his name eve-rest, not ever-est. |
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09 Mar 09 - 07:59 AM (#2584540) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: The Sandman Wymondham is Windham,Theydon Bois[boys],Cecil[surname]is Seesel. how is Joe Offer pronounced,is it joffa? |
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09 Mar 09 - 08:05 AM (#2584547) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Richard Bridge Sidebottom ("Siddey - Bot - arm") Onions (" A' - Nye - ons") Death (middle name) ("Deeth") |
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09 Mar 09 - 08:48 AM (#2584574) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: RTim I knew a surveyor in Wintey, Oxfordshire whose name was "Mr. Death" and he changed it to - "De'Ath", much more "County!" Tim Radford |
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09 Mar 09 - 09:29 AM (#2584602) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Tug the Cox Trottiscliffe in Kent is pronounced Trossley. Gentrification by estate agents has allegedly lef to Clarm (clapham) and St. ( saint) Reetam ( Streatham) |
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09 Mar 09 - 09:34 AM (#2584608) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Dave Hanson When I worked in car insurance I overheard one of the telephone operators apologising to ' Mrs Trebellco ' he had called her Mrs Treblecock , how it was written down. Dave H |
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09 Mar 09 - 10:01 AM (#2584625) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: masato sakurai I've been pronouncing CAR-pi-leaze, according to BBC Pronouncing Dictionary of British Names. |
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09 Mar 09 - 10:04 AM (#2584627) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Richard Bridge No, Trottiscliffe is "Trozley" And Wrotham is "Root'm" And Ightham is "Eye-t'm" And OUR Gillingham is "Jilling'm" And Baddlesmere is "Barlesmere" |
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09 Mar 09 - 10:14 AM (#2584634) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: GUEST,Isopel Berners I thought "big bertha" was a gun, not a traction engine. |
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09 Mar 09 - 11:09 AM (#2584674) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: RTim Big Bertha was indeed a WW1 or before gun - and my mother was named after it! Bertha Constance Humby!! Tim Radford |
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09 Mar 09 - 11:34 AM (#2584696) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Joe Offer But in German, "Bertha" is BEAR-tuh German, I can pronounce. It's English that give me problems. -Joe, born in the USA- |
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09 Mar 09 - 11:58 AM (#2584715) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: GUEST,OldNicKilby Sorry Richard IGHTHAM is eye-tum ,at least thats what my family always called it and they lived there for about 170 years. The ultimate authority on S B G is of course Martin Graebe I will point him in the direction We were singing at a festival when someone introduced a song as coming from the "Braying Gould" collection. He was adamant that it was so as he had seen it on the net |
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09 Mar 09 - 03:17 PM (#2584888) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Martin Graebe Re Sabine Baring-Gould The family confirm that it is pronounced 'Say-bin Bear-ing Goold' His forename was given for his great-uncle General Sir Edward Sabine, the arctic explorer and scientist Martin |
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09 Mar 09 - 03:25 PM (#2584896) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Q (Frank Staplin) English is troublesome, that is the reason for books like the "Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary," now in its 16th edition. The current edition also covers American pronunciations- yes, they can be different. I don't know about Australian, but they could be topsy-turvy. As referenced by Masato, the BBC Dictionary also is good (Oxford Press). According to the Karpeles Manuscript Library Museum, the pronunciation is KARP e les. German is easier, unless you delve into low German. Then all bets are off. |
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09 Mar 09 - 04:05 PM (#2584932) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: RoyH (Burl) I once mentioned Maud karpeles in an article I was writing. My spell checker didn't like it, offered me 'Mad CarPools'. |
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09 Mar 09 - 04:12 PM (#2584943) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: BB Woolsfardisworthy - Woolsery - or even Wools'ry! Barbara |
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09 Mar 09 - 07:20 PM (#2585145) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Steve Gardham Appletreewick=Aptrick Alnwick=Annick Aike=Yack Thanks, Martin, for pronouncing on SBG. While I'm on how much is your last 'e' of Graebe pronounced and is it German? With RVW I sometimes get confused over his surname as he is often referred to as Vaughan Williams. Is he a double barreler like SBG or is Vaughan his middle name? |
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09 Mar 09 - 07:53 PM (#2585181) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Q (Frank Staplin) RVW's father was Arthur Vaughan Williams; no hyphen. Dunno the genealogy, nor was I at the christening, so I can't add to that. |
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10 Mar 09 - 12:24 AM (#2585287) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Gurney Well, Isopel and RTim, Big Bertha WAS a giant gun used in WW1, but in 1907 it was an Aveling & Porter traction engine, and in 1910 the name was used for a carousel music organ in the USA. I checked up with Google, and one reference that I found was to the post that I did up there! You have to be careful if you don't want your ignorance exposed to the world, it seems.>:-] Most of the references related to a game with a four-letter name. |
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10 Mar 09 - 05:47 AM (#2585383) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Martin Graebe Steve Funnily enough, I wondered about adding something witty about pronouncing my own name. The family was split on the topic. My Grandfather and both of my uncles favoured a pronunciation as if it ended in 'ee'. My dad said it as if it had an 'r' on the end, closer to its original German (my great-grandfather came from Hanover)- now all of the UK branch that I know do it that way. Spelling it has been more of a problem. At one time I started to stick the mis-spelt adresses from envelopes on a piece of A3 paper on the back of my office door. When the A3 sheets occupied the full height of the door I gave up. It was the ones with 'z's and 'x's that got me.By the time I get past the spelling I tend to let the pronunciation go. Martin Graebe |
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10 Mar 09 - 07:59 AM (#2585467) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: bubblyrat Truro is "Trow" The village of Mousehole is pronounced "Muzzle",an unpleasant inhabitant thereof being,by extension,an "Arzzle" (obviously !). St John is usually ,in England anyway,"Sinjen", so ,when I am in Sidmouth,I often nip down the road to "Ottery Simmery". Launceston is "Larnston",but I always say "Lorn-cess-ton" to annoy "Hawker" . |
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10 Mar 09 - 08:07 AM (#2585473) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Dave Hanson Mousehole is pronounced ' Mouzel ' The ex head of the RBS Sir Fred Goodwin is pronounced ' useless greedy bastard ' Dave H |
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10 Mar 09 - 03:46 PM (#2585852) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Steve Gardham Thanks, Martin. Right on Q! RVW's surname is Vaughan Williams regardless of hyphen as his Missus was Ursula VW. |
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10 Mar 09 - 03:55 PM (#2585858) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: BB I can accept Larnson for Launceston, but I'm not too sure about Larnston. It's usually the 't' sound that's left out, even when people pronounce it Launson. I believe it's more Lanson, as in 'We'll give you the chance at St. Stephen's, by Lanson', in 'The Bellringing' song. Barbara |
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10 Mar 09 - 04:27 PM (#2585873) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: GUEST,Chris P. Sowerby Bridge = Saar Brigg Keighley = Keethly Slaithwaite = Slawit Todmorden = Todmudun |
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10 Mar 09 - 04:34 PM (#2585874) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Bainbo Anyone called Cockburn usually insists it's pronounced Coe-burn. For obvious reasons. |
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10 Mar 09 - 07:52 PM (#2586018) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: bubblyrat So ....We now know Pete Coe's REAL name,then ?? |
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11 Mar 09 - 05:16 PM (#2586658) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Rowan Launceston is "Larnston",but I always say "Lorn-cess-ton" to annoy "Hawker" . That might be well and good in Pommy Land but if you tried either Lanston or Lanson in Oz while referring to the Tassie Launceston, 99 times out of ten you'd become lost, as "Lorn-cess-ton" is the go 'round here. Cheers, Rowan |
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11 Mar 09 - 05:40 PM (#2586674) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: paula t Warwick is "worrick" Over Peover is "Over Peever" Then there's all the stuff about "scones".Don't go there! What about Shrewsbury (or is it "Shrowsbury?") |
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11 Mar 09 - 08:01 PM (#2586774) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: GUEST,GrannyInWales In Northamptonshire there is a village spelt Cogenhoe which is pronounced "Cooknah" Croughton, just outside Brackley where there is a RAF/USAF Station is pronounced "Croe-ton" Anyone want a bash at a place near me called "Pantycacklode"......? |
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11 Mar 09 - 08:20 PM (#2586790) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Snuffy Bedduth is in Woricksher, just up the Fozle Road from Cov |
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12 Mar 09 - 03:15 AM (#2586942) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Dave Hanson Scone in Perthshire is ' Scoon ' and great fishing on the Tay also. Dave H |
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12 Mar 09 - 05:19 PM (#2587467) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Rowan The New South Wales town of Wauchope is pronounced war-hope. The Northern Territory town of Wauchope is pronounced walk-up. Cheers, Rowan |
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13 Mar 09 - 11:30 AM (#2588020) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: Dave Hanson Yeah but they're named after a tributary of the Border Esk in Dumfriesshire, pronounced wa hup, good sea trout fishing in a spate. Dave H |
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13 Mar 09 - 01:04 PM (#2588110) Subject: RE: Pronouncing Karpeles etc From: GUEST,Kev Boyd My head started hurting before I'd read the whole thread so someone bay have already said this, but i'm pretty sure Maud's surname is pronounced CAR-PULL-LEZ (or maybe it should be written CAR-P-LEZ). |